Secure a border that stretches from CA to Texas? At what cost? Never will be
able to secure a border so porous. The solution to illegal immigration is
south of the border. End corruption, poverty, and violence in Mexico and
Mexicans will stay in Mexico or come legally. I would likely leave a country
controlled by drug cartels and take my chances in the United States.
We won the war, and the spoils of war was the land. Plus we paid for it.
That's another manufactured excuse for breaking our laws.
Many people discussing the immigration issue come from the perspective that
Mexican immigrants have no claim to this land and the they, i. e. American
citizens have clear title. Therein lies the root fallacy in the anti immigration
@ 2 bitsRe: “Your over-the-top concern about any of this being
blamed on Obama is unfounded”By any chance did you read the DN
letter to the editor?
Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help
people who break them. There is no reason we can't deport people here
illegally, or stop them from working. Not doing so will be a lack of compassion
for American workers and legal immigrants. Deporting 12 million,
according to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs
Enforcement agency put the cost at 94 billion. This is a one time cost, that
does not include self deportation. The Federation for American Immigration
Reform puts the cost of illegal immigration at $113 billion per year. When you
add in the boost to our economy from putting millions of Americans back to work
in non agriculture jobs, we can't afford not to. Judicial
system-deterrents are the best way to stop crime-consequences for illegal
activity. If we don't enforce our laws this time, it will be worse the next
timeWe give our over 3.2 million work visas each year. We don't
need temp workers when 20 million Americans are out of work. Children born here have dual citizenship. The law states they return with
their parents until 18.
Ajax,RE: "Does the Right ever tire of their constant harangue against
the President"...Your over-the-top concern about any of this
being blamed on Obama is unfounded. I did a word search of the
comments on this topic... so far only you and two other posters (Kent DeForest
and Stalwart Sentinel) (note all 3 Obama defenders) have even mentioned word
"Obama".===As others have pointed out...
it's not a Hispanic thing. Speaking for others here but... I think they
are against anybody being in the country illegally (not just Hispanic
people).The people who flew planes into the WTC were here illegally
(overstayed their visas). I wish we had known about them for instance. And
I'm pretty sure there are some people in America illegally from many
nations and races. It's not just a Hispanic thing.It IS an
issue. And the main issue is not that none of it get on Obama. There's a
REAL issue. We need to know who is in our country (legal and not). They need
to participate in society (not hide). All Americans need to know their status
LDS Liberal,The problem is... you see people as "you sorts". As
if you can just group people neatly into categories based on your political
stereotypes of them. That's bogus.People just don't fit
nicely into our political stereotypes.For instance... you assume
that I want to deport them all (I guess because that's your stereotype for
"my sort", and you put me in that sort group based on some other
comments I've made (because I KNOW I've never actually said
"deport them all"). I know that's not possible or desirable from
anything other than a rhetorical point of view.We don't need to
deport them all. We NEED a temp worker program (not just a "looking the
other way for people who are here illegally" program).They need
to be able to come out of the shadows. The best way to do that (IMO) is a temp
worker program (not free defacto-citizenship for anybody who can hide here long
enough to have children in America program).Sorry if I don't
fit your stereotypes.... but that's life.We need both
compassion AND compliance to the law. Not just compassion.
AjaxIt's not just about Hispanic people here illegally, it's
about everyone here illegally. Trying to call enforcement of immigration laws
racism is so 1980's.
Does the Right ever tire of their constant harangue against the President and
undocumented Hispanic immigrants? What fuels their zealotry?In my
opinion, the many accusations of the Constitution crowd against President Obama
and against undocumented Hispanic immigrants are unduly exaggerated and
purposely misleading. Bearing a strong ideological slant, they all too often
are more propaganda than real. I see the stiff, uncompromising orthodoxy of the
conservative right not, as some would suppose, rigorously and righteously
constituted, but in large part as a contrived and manufactured cover for the
frustration and resentment of white Americans who feel threatened by the
increasing influence of people of color, women and others devalued in our
society.What else but this duplicity of purpose would explain how
some are able to rationalize the virulence of their interminable attacks against
President Obama and against undocumented Hispanic immigrants as a righteous
Compassion is sending people down the path of righteousness; rewarding
illegal/dishonest behavior is not compassionate. It should cost more to break
the law than to follow it. That has not been the case the past 30 years. The
Republicans are right to be concerned about immigration enforcement with Hilary
waiting in the wings. Her husband promised the end to illegal immigration if we
supported NAFTA, but it became worse. He also gave out 6 amnesties for 3 million
people. Amnesty is failed policy, we need enforcement. The press and
politicians like to dwell on the border, but it's only part of the laws
already passed in previous reforms that were never implemented. The border.
e-verify, interior enforcement, more judges and a visa entry-exit system were
all part of the 1986 and 1996 immigration reforms. Like Switzerland,
it's time Americans took their country and jobs back.
LDS LiberalWhy do you want to punish the business owners that not
the illegal aliens who by their own free will and choice chose to break the law
and come here, chose to stay here, and chose to work at whatever places of work
they are at?Why the double standard?
2bits -- The main problem I have you sorts is thus -- MOST of the illegals you want to round-up and ship out have AMERICAN
children.Why is you want to crack down on the immigrants who break
the law, and want to give a "Get out of Jail Free" card to
businesses and owners who exploit and use them?As Real Maverick
points out;Aren't businesses and business men just as guilty of
Breaking Laws?Why the double standard?
No "poorly administered policies" changes that its a crime to enter our
country illegally and a crime to stay here illegally. Just
don't be a criminal. Its that simple
2 bits. The main result from coming down hard on employers that hire illegals
is that it would slow the flow of illegals coming in. As long as there are
unscrupulous employers who will hire them they will keep coming, and those that
are here will stay.We know we cannot export all or even a large
portion of those that are here illegally. We mainly have to start making it so
easy for them.
Maverick,And what would those fired illegal alien families do for food?Where's YOUR compassion?===I agree there needs to
be punishment for businesses that hire illegal workers. But that was the
central theme of Bush's "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and you
shot it down. It's nowhere to be seen in the current immigration bill (and
yet you support it). Could you be a little consistent?If you want
the focus to be on businesses who hire illegal workers... why don't you
push for it to be in THIS bill?===I think you know this
but... our economy would suffer if we just fired all illegal workers today.
Your plan makes as much practical sense as the people who say we should deport
them all. It's not possible.===And IF you're
going to fire them.. should you not also deport them?Otherwise what
do they do? Just sit around your neighborhood, unemployed, with nothing to eat,
no job, no money? They would have to self-deport wouldn't they? Is your
real name Mitt Romney?===Your plan makes zero sense.
What we need a real plans, not just more political rhetoric that helps zero.
Charles makes some very good points about compassion as it relates to the
illegal immigration issue. One thing that could be added is the compassion that
should be shown to American citizens, both as business people that hire only
legal residents and have to compete with those that don't, and American
citizens that have gone through the legal process to become naturalized
citizens. The compassion for these two classes of citizens seem to
I have a solution which is both compassionate and effective:All
businesses have 1 month to fire all illegals and replace them with legal
workers/Americans. Any business owner found guilty of hiring illegals will
immediately be "deported" for 10 years to prison and lose their business
license forever.We don't need to build a wall or deport
millions of individuals or anything like that. Just severely punish Americans
who value their own profits over the value of the Constitution.You
would be surprised how few illegals would come if businesses refused to hire
In order to deal with this appropriately we need deal with it maturely, and
separate the "Legal" aspects from the "Compassion" aspects.Some try to make it just an emotional topic. Some try to make it purely
a legal topic. It's not. It's both.IMO we need to deal
with the legal aspects (without emotion). And we need to deal with the
emotional aspects (without trying to codify our emotions into law).We need to deal with the legal aspects legally (not emotionally). If we
ajudicated other legal issues the way we handle illegal immigration... No bank
robber would ever go to jail (because you may hurt his children to be without a
father, or "he just wanted food for his kids", etc). Sometimes emotion
needs to be set aside when we are deciding legal issues.But we also
need to realize that there IS an emotional component (that requires compassion).
But this compassion should not be allowed to rob justice (IMO). But it still
needs to be there. AFTER they have paid the price for breaking the
law... we should have all the compassion in the world for them (but compassion
should not attempt to circumvent justice).
First of all, there is no such thing as "Compassionate
Conservatism".2nd, Conservatives will not feel safe or
secure until our borders are permanant walls, barbed wired and scattered
with machine gun nests.Just like East Germany, it will take
decades to wake up and discover they were duped and are indeed the ones being
This is just another excuse for the Republican House to do nothing on an
important issue. But it is consistent with their stated purpose, which is simply
to oppose Obama at every turn, on every issue. This is the most useless,
counterproductive Congress in the history of this country. The numbers back up
"Secure the borders" is Republican-speak for "no, we won't
help, we won't do anything." The borders have never been more secure
than they are now. But border security for Republicans is a moving target, and
until "they" say it's secure, nothing can be done.
There is no valid reason why illegal aliens should be rewarded with the very
object of their illegality -- namely, U.S. residency. Plainly it is unfair;
plainly it is wrong. It would signify that the law finally means nothing.
In response the faux concern listed by the letter writer, the Dems actually
capitulated and said they would be willing to do a deal w/ Repubs on immigration
that would not take affect until after Obama leaves office. Republican
response: "well, we don't know who the next president is going to
be." So, yeah, this is a weak excuse from a party that simply doesn't
want to work while in Congress.