Jay Evensen: Giggles and scorn keep us from really discussing questions of morality

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  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 2:40 p.m.


    You just told my life story.

    I started my adult life liberal and still figuring the world out, but I quickly realized that I wasn't contributing to something good, nor were the others who professed as much. Is every conservative a saint? No. But after getting an education and giving myself an honest and humbling evaluation... I realized that change was needed... but inwardly.

    Protecting values isn't forcing change on others, and it shouldn't be. It's about preserving families as the fundamental unit of society to foster people to make their own choices. Our liberty and freedom is a liberal principle, but not a lawless one. Our laws don't dictate behaviors, but they must preserve institutions that we need to survive.

    Families create societies. If families fall apart, only one thing will inevitably follow.

    "we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

  • Ilikeyou West Point, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    To Cavetroll-
    Cavetroll may have an argument but, the liberal's idea of "conservative sex-ed" is..."if it feels good, do it", and teaching young kids how to use birth control. They speak or teach of nothing to do with abstinence, self control, controlling appetites of the body or why and when it is appropriate-to build a family, to build a bond and love between husband and wife not husband and himself or his computer.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 3:54 p.m.

    "Sexual relationships are only to take place between a man and a woman inside of marriage. The only sex education that needs to be given is to wait until marriage. Period."

    "But, with an honest (and I mean HONEST) evaluation, one must conclude that much of the left's agenda is leading to the destruction of society's morals and values - "

    And comments like these, my friends, are why we cannot have a serious discussion.

    You really want a serious discussion?

    Okay, fine. Seriously that video that was mentioned is deserving of all the scorn and ridicule and mockery it received. It was a joke. Seriously.

    Did Jay not realize that the video did not discuss the things he claims he wants discussed? Seriously?

    Seriously, a discussion consists of more then one side, more then one voice. If not it is dogma, monologue.

    YOUR morality is not necessarily MY morality, and I will fight any attempts that YOU make to legislate YOUR morality. I WILL not be bound by YOUR religious believes. Seriously.

    You want a serious discussion? Fine. Define pornography. Then tell me what you plan to do about it. Let's start there.

  • nycut New York, NY
    Feb. 14, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    Watch out for those "the repressive people who giggle" who are, tuh-duh, "the left" (whatever that means).

    Plenty of people are interested in serious discussions about pornography-- from across the political spectrum. Let's talk about human sexuality, objectification of women, disease prevention, teen pregnancy, restricting children's access to pornography. And let's do be serious about it.

    But this author deserves scorn.

    "I think you're cruel, ruthless and relentless, let's cooperate" isn't a great conversational opener.

    I guess it's easy to know who your enemies are when you just keep making them up.

  • Summer Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    Excellent article, Mr. Evensen. And, as I expected, most of the comments prove your point.

    I used to be aligned with the "repressive left". I voted for John Kerry in 2004 and was angry he didn't win. I have since re-evaluated my position and for the reasons stated in this article, I have completely turned away from the "repressive left". The morals of our nation are crumbling so fast it is alarming - and the "left" doesn't want to admit that much of their agenda is contributing to it. The "right" has plenty of things to admit and work on also, so they are not out of the discussion also.

    But, with an honest (and I mean HONEST) evaluation, one must conclude that much of the left's agenda is leading to the destruction of society's morals and values - and that is leading to the gradual slide to a crumbling society.

  • dwidenhouse Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    I think it is ironic that the top comments are the exact type of comments that the author mentioned in the article. Seems like a wonderful example of exactly what he was saying. Thank you for this article.

  • Sandy Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:52 p.m.

    Thank you, Jay. Let's keep pushing, keep insisting on that conversation till the late night hosts and stand ups and commenters herein feel more shame over the exploitation of women and children than pride in the side of the aisle they've chosen.

  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 7:03 p.m.

    Jay Evensen:
    'Scorning, laughing at and dismissing moral views don't produce discussions of value or worth'

    Comment Section:
    'Laugh! Scorn! Ridicule of Jay Evensen!'


    Rewind, to the article:

    "'The irony... missed... is that the video begins by Clark describing the battle between good and evil as one in which “the enemy is cruel, ruthless and relentless.' It would be hard to find three better words to describe those who attacked it."


    What was returned to Mr. Evensen was distasteful and full of contempt. These comments truly stand as a witness of Evensen's remarks being true. He didn't just offer commentary about a troubling trend. People responded by proving him right. Lehi saw a building with people who were laughing and scorning. As it turns out, now I have too.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 6:44 p.m.

    There are plenty of people on both sides who don't want to have a serious discussion on the matter.

    There are plenty on the left who think that there's no such thing as an addition to porn, or see this as a humorous subject worthy of derision and mockery, or who think that it's a total non-issue and reject the idea of a differing viewpoint.

    There are plenty on the right who think we shouldn't even have a discussion about sex beyond abstinence, that pretend this is a male only thing when in fact many women look at it too, or think that anything beyond the narrow window of when sex is deemed permissable by them is a total non-starter.

    (Of course neither of these broad strokes apply to everyone on that side).

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Feb. 13, 2014 6:07 p.m.


    Abortion rates are down. Teen pregnancy rates are down. And you have any actual evidence showing that school shootings are related in any way to porn?

    the truth:

    And L. White's comment wasn't a stereotype or putdown? I'd be the first to admit that porn can be abused and that it warrants discussion, but based on these comments, all the "righties" have to contribute are guilt trips, fear-mongering, and "because God said so."

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 6:01 p.m.


    I agree that a discussion takes listening and discussing. I have no problem with that. And, yes, when you go into a discussion with the intent to talk only (and control) it does no good. It would seem though that there are louder voices persuading youth, and adults, to actions that ultimately are harmful and destructive, who drowned out any other point of view by mocking and labeling that perspective as "prudish" and out of date.

    I do not advocate condemning, but I do advocate persuading with information about real consequences, consequences youth already experience personally or witness. This is less possible when mocking is the predominant response. I have little hope this will change though.

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 5:31 p.m.

    The left truly are repressed.

    They want repress any real discussion of morality, and tear down anyone opposed to their views of morality.

    They just want all their "morality" and only their "morality" solutions discussed and accepted no matter how detrimental it is for society.

    Yes, the left truly is repressed.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 5:24 p.m.

    The lefties her article are repressed according to the definition given in the article ( see the third paragraph.

    No one on the left here wants to have a serious discussion,

    Every single comment from the left is as Jay Evensen said,

    "Anyone who wants to talk about the serious issues related to a permissive culture is met with something worse than giggles — jokes, scorn, haughtiness and dismissive laughter."

    Every single comment from the left is stereotype and put down of some sort of the right.

    Until this kind of "repression" is stopped we can not have serious discussion about morality.

    The leftist comments here show he is spot on.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    In the old days you would have to send away for porn and it came in a brown paper bag in mail...no so easy to get. Today it is a mouse click away on the internet. This is a HUGE cultural shift from even the 1970's. The tidal wave of porn pouring into kids and adults heads is staggering compared to just 30 years ago. The damaging effects are seen everywhere from high school violence where kids shoot their class mates to the explosion in teen pregnancy and abortion and finally suicide. For adults you see broken marriages and adultery running ramped. Satan is the author and peddler of porn and to suggest this industry isn't rooted in evil is naive. The degrading of women and men as well as the trashing of human decency and dignity are the core features of porn. Having said that the internet is an incredible blessing to the world we live in for good but as we learn from Spiderman "with great power comes great responsibility".

    Feb. 13, 2014 4:21 p.m.

    jeannie, if the "discussion" consists of "that behavior is immoral" it's not much of a discussion. You are right; no one is harmed by abstinence and fidelity. However, many young people are not making that choice. If you wish to engage in a "discussion," you need to listen (really listen) and then respond. You don't go in to a discussion with a "this is the right way and the only way" mindset. That is not a discussion.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    LDS liberal-

    The answer to all your questions is - no - which makes your conclusion incorrect and your questions uninformed about what many conservative parents really teach their children.

    And I agree with the author of this article. Behaving morally benefits society.

    Exactly who is harmed by abstinence before marriage and complete fidelity (body and soul) after? ...

    Immorality leaves a wake of sadness and broken people, not one of our lives have been untouched by it, and yet it seems those who would promote moral behavior as the behavior of choice are shut down.

  • Blue Collar Huntington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:20 p.m.


    Feb. 13, 2014 2:49 p.m.

    JinAZ, so you would agree with most of the posters here that a discussion is necessary and that those who would most benefit from that discussion are young and unmarried?

    Everyone here seems to agree with that sentiment - whether we identify to the left or the right.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    Aren't these the same people who keep associating "marriage" stictly to "sex"?

    Aren't these the same people who tell their kids not to smoke or drink,
    but stay mum and NEVER talk to them about s-e-x ?

    Aren't these the same people who complain about other people's unwanted pregancies,
    but don't educate their own kids as to how to protect or avoid them?

    I liken it to speaking out of boths sides of one's mouth.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    About that video:

    Yes, it didn't specifically mention masturbation. But what do you think accompanies porn when viewed by a college boy, alone in his room? Besides, that's a diversion for the real reason people thought it was bizarre. It was the war imagery. They are basically saying that talking to your roommate about his addiction is akin to risking your life in battle to save a wounded brother. I can easily see where an actual war veteran would find that a bit offensive. The ridicule wasn't because you wanted to have an open discussion (there are General Conference talks about it all the time that never get ridiculed), it was the inappropriate analogy.

    I think it's perfectly valid to have an open discussion about porn. There are certainly religious arguments to be made, but there are Marxist ones as well (the idea that the choice between doing porn and living in poverty isn't really a choice). To pretend it's only one side that's against objectifying women is disingenuous (at best). I find education and attempting to alleviate the socioeconomic reasons for it would be more productive than attempts to block its access.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    Tyler D,

    Understood on the issue of using the word "sin" in a dialogue. On the other side, understanding that a particular act is considered particularly problematic helps those not in that religious tradition to understand some of the motivations and reactions of the religious.

    I was simply trying to communicate why sexual issues are so strongly emphasized. Your 10:21 post had stated that "all morality (or lack thereof) takes place between the navel and the kneecaps" and I was simply trying to address why it is so prominent.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:57 p.m.

    @ JinAZ: There are many valid reasons to be celibate until you are in a committed relationship (since some people are denied marriage, committed relationship is the best we can do for everyone) and monogamous once in that relationship, but since no society has ever managed to achieve that at the 100% level, don't you think it makes sense to do all we can to mitigate the harms associated with not meeting the 100% level - especially for those innocents who may be affected by the behaviors of others?

    Comprehensive sex education doesn't say go have sex with anyone and everyone - it says sex is a beautiful and wonderful thing which should be done only in the confines of a committed relationship. If you are having sex, and don't want children right away, take precautions against pregnancy. If you are not sure about the sexual health of your partner, take precautions. If you are going to engage in casual sex, take precautions.

    Comprehensive sex education says talk to people if you have questions or are dealing with issues such as pornography.

    We tell teenagers don't drink, but if you do, don't drive. Comprehensive sex education does the same thing.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    @ Jay Evansen: "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."

    It is difficult to have a "mature discussion" when the person calling for the discussion starts it off with an ad hominem/ad populum attack - not to mention your gross generalizations.

    Perhaps if some civility were shown there would be more willingness to have a real conversation?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:27 p.m.

    @J in AZ – “…sexual activity is a transmission vector for a number of viral, bacterial, fungal, and parasitic diseases.”

    Yup… so is eating and breathing a “transmission vector” for countless more viral, bacterial, fungal and parasitic diseases.

    There are arguably better reasons to avoid promiscuity than disease avoidance, although it’s certainly a benefit.

    How about just general happiness – sex without love can often leave people feeling empty (among other negative psychological impacts) rather than fulfilled, and masturbation (which is perfectly normal and avoids all the problems you mentioned), like most pleasurable things in life can lead to compulsive behavior and a lack of motivation to find a partner.

    Your 2nd comment is a better argument by far… can I assume you’re fully supportive of birth control?

    @Twin Lights – “within the LDS Church, sexual sin (and most specifically adultery) is considered to be very serious.”

    I understand your point. Just know that talk of “sin” and such will shut down the conversation immediately for millions. And the point of the article was “how do we have a discussion” and I’m assuming Jay meant not just among religious people.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:54 a.m.

    Tyler D,

    Though there are certainly other areas where improper behavior is an issue, within the LDS Church, sexual sin (and most specifically adultery) is considered to be very serious. In common parlance, the word “morality” is closely associated with the concept of sexual purity.

    That said, I think most Christian denominations believe sexual intimacy is good when kept within proper bounds. Additionally, the LDS believe men and women to be the offspring of God such that even our sexuality is God given. Further, we believe Adam and Eve were married so sexual relations between them could not be the “original sin” as some think. Finally, the birthrates among the LDS and many other Christian denominations indicate that sexual intimacy is well accepted.

    Agreed that science would help both sides find common ground (perhaps ideal for neither side but better than where we are now).

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:38 a.m.

    Aren't these the very same people who do not want to openly discuss sexual reproduction in the schools?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    I sense the political right making a shift in strategy away from the harsh puritanical sermons they once relied on. Feminist anti-exploitation themes that once caused the right to shudder are suddenly useful to them in trying to frame the discussion on pornography to resonate in our times. I even see it reflected in the tone of Jay Evensen’s column.

    The political left remains skeptical. And why shouldn’t we be? That’s what the modern art of political spin has taught us to be.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    Murray, UT
    Mr Evensen is absolutely right. Look at the posts. Those who admit that they view porn, (responsibly, they claim) don't want to talk about the effects, not specific effects to them and their relationships, and not the accumulative societal effects, which profoundly harm the youth. Mocking is their denial.


    I'll repeat my earlier comment -- (since you either ignore it, or live in denial)
    UTAH has the highest on-line porn "problem" in the Nation.

    BTW --
    I'm all FOR Restrictions and Regulations - like Socialist Europe and Asia does -
    and because of that, I am hated as a Socialist Liberal.

    L White
    Springville, UT

    Are your FOR Big Government intervention and restrictions (bans),
    are you against them?

    or is this another one of your --
    being FOR Social Security and Medicare,
    and then
    being against Government Social Programs.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:17 a.m.

    Gotta love the right bashing the left entertainers here... Because the right's entertainers, Rush, Beck, coulter are so much more moral......

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    Jay Evensen
    "Can we have a serious talk about sexual morality? Apparently not."

    Not when my morality is the only morality that matters. Too many people in this discussion cannot fathom, let alone accept, that there are many different views of morality. What's immoral for one person, may be not as bad or even acceptable to others. That's where the discussion needs to begin, not what constitutes what is immoral or moral.

  • Mukkake Montreal, QC, 00
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:13 a.m.

    [No doubt this is easily fixed. More to the point, access to a game cannot be compared in any logical or sensible way to what pornography is doing to the world.]

    It's easily fixed if it's a common web domain, but this will always hurt legitimate smaller sites and services that fly under the filter company's radar. Filters work off keywords and can't make a judgement call.

    It's not just access to "a game" it's access to the internet. That's how the internet works, and this joke of a law they passed in the UK will either be repealed eventually, or everyone will just opt-out, even for entirely legitimate uses. There will be no stigma or assumptions made when people opt out either, it will just be a normal part of the ISP sign up process. It will not prevent access by children and will end up just being a pointless feel good law.

  • J in AZ San Tan Valley, AZ
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:53 a.m.

    Tyler B.: While you contemplate my public health argument for a more disciplined approach to sexuality and relationships, lets consider another thought that is not health related, but has an impact on the economy. Abstinence from sex prior to a long term committment in a relationship, marriage if you will, and sexual exclusivity after making that committment would reduce the incidence of teenage pregnancy. Reducing the incidence of that event would reduce the numbers of young single parents who have a high incidence of living in poverty. Would it eliminate the problem of single parents living in poverty? No. But, it would make a difference for those young people who did not wind up in poverty.

  • J in AZ San Tan Valley, AZ
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    While you are all picking apart Mr. Evenson's commentary on the issue of discussing the issues raised by the trend of sexual permissiveness and promiscuity in modern society, you are doing the same things that you are accusing him of.

    In any case, let me introduce you to a public health rationale for abstinence from sex prior to a long term committment in a relationship, marriage if you will, and sexual exclusivity after making that committment. Promiscuous sexual activity is a transmission vector for a number of viral, bacterial, fungal, and parasitic diseases. Stopping that activity quickly prevents transmission of those diseases in a relatively short cycle. It is also vastly cheaper than the costs of medical treatment and the research needed to discover new treatments as the disease organisms develop resistance to existing treatments.

    Feb. 13, 2014 10:25 a.m.

    "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."

    This is how you begin and open and honest discussion? Really?

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    Mr Evensen is absolutely right. Look at the posts. Those who admit that they view porn, (responsibly, they claim) don't want to talk about the effects, not specific effects to them and their relationships, and not the accumulative societal effects, which profoundly harm the youth. Mocking is their denial.

    We do the same thing with our nation's spending problem. Dare to suggest that we can't spend more than we make forever and see the mocking you will get. See what has been thrown at Mike Lee.

    Denial protects feelings, temporarily, but it doesn't stop the damage. That damage continues to hurt society and to harm to the people who make up that society.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:21 a.m.

    Perhaps a serious discussion about sexual morality is difficult because of the Religious Right’s myopic obsession with it (often wildly out of proportion to any other areas of morality) and the fact that most arguments in favor of sexual restriction are couched in religious terms - as the YouTube war scene video makes abundantly clear.

    Perhaps if the Right would engage in more scientific and evidence based discussions we may get somewhere (and there are likely excellent arguments for controlling sexual urges). And taking this approach would undermine the Left’s aversion to these sorts of discussions, which would surely help your cause.

    If not, then you will continue to receive justified scorn for views which often sound like they are based on an aversion to sexuality and a fanatical belief that all morality (or lack thereof) takes place between the navel and the kneecaps.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    The puritanical right is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs.
    People are having sex. We're built and wired for it. The conversation that needs to be had isn't going to stay contained into the 'sex is for when and why we say it is' box. It never has, and Leno just pointed that out.
    And that video? In context, it was just plain funny.

  • L White Springville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    Wow! Can you believe how many posters have mocked virtue and women this morning? It's probably not politically correct to assume that all of the posters are men but I'm going to assume that anyway. On behave of myself, my daughters and my granddaughters, I'm telling you posters that you should be ashamed of yourselves. Each of you has a mother. You are mocking her and reviling her. You are lusting after the daughters of mothers like me. You want to use them for your pleasure and then throw them away so that you can chase after other daughters. If you get a daughter pregnant, you tell her to have the baby, YOUR baby, aborted. You would rather kill an unborn child than honor womanhood.

    Jay Evensen, I congratulate you for having the courage to speak up for virtue and to condemn a society that wallows in muck.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    When the God of the natural world created life, he only gave it one commandment, survive. He didn't send a messenger or write it in a book, he put it into every living cell of every living creature. Procreation and diversification seems to have been the most successful strategy for living the commandment, and thus we have a sex drive and the requirement of male and female for procreation.

    Beyond that, all the rules and regulations regarding sex and procreation are those created by human beings in their quest to control the actions of others. Sin was created by man. There is no sin in the natural world.

    If we wish to control the sex drive we may have to do more than just talk about it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."


    Truely the funniest line of late.

    BTW - Jay,
    The "Left" [you know, us Pro-Government types] WANT Government to crack down on On-Line porn...
    Just like in "Socialist" Europe and Asia.

    Ironically it is the "Get Government out of our lives" Conservatives who whine and complain, yet don't want Government to intefere or do anything about it.
    The Reddest of Red Conservative States has the BIGGEST problem in the Nation with it.

    Go figure...

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:12 a.m.

    Freedom of speech carries no exemption from criticism for the things one says or how. It is, in fact, premised on belief in the value of the free exchange of ideas.

    There are few topics for discussion more subjectively-defined than pornography. The BYU folks who made the video that’s been lampooned are not so naïve that they didn’t know that such a video can’t be insulated from public eyes for long, not in the age when published materials are the click of a mouse button away.

  • Church member North Salt Lake, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    It just seems to me that this author wants everyone to live life the way he lives life. He believes in freedom when it benefits him. But when it doesn't he thinks everyone should follow his way of life as if that is the only way to be happy.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    Mr. Evensen, you wrote an excellent article. Already, this morning, some of the posts are picking nits instead of discussing the issues that you wrote about.

    You wrote, "Two years ago, when the story of a Zumba instructor in Maine who was accused of prostitution went viral, I wrote in favor of making the names of her clients public. “Buying a prostitute,” I wrote, “is a disgusting crime.” Instead of discussing whether prostitution is a crime, they still ridicule. Are they afraid that if society looks seriously at prostitution, that THEIR favorite sexual perversion might be exposed?

    To me, that's what is behind the ridicule. Those who ridicule, instead of discussing the issues, know that they on a list of people who, if exposed, would lead to exposure. Instead of examining their own actions, they divert.

    Sexual relationships are only to take place between a man and a woman inside of marriage. The only sex education that needs to be given is to wait until marriage. Period.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:24 a.m.

    Part of having a "reasonable" discussion is admitting that the vast majority of people who view porn do so responsibly. Just because something doesn't fit into the Mormon ideal doesn't make it wrong.

    It's a bit like alcohol. Having a glass of wine with dinner doesn't make you an addict and besides, we tried Prohibition and it was a miserable failure. Sexual desires are one of the most basic parts of being human. When are we going to realize that guilt and shame-based approaches aren't effective?

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:07 a.m.

    "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."

    Comedy gold.

    Question: if I were to sincerely attempt to engage you in a mature discussion, would you be able to do that if we stipulated that our discussion could only use valid, objective and replicable evidence, and that arguments that rely solely on Bronze Age mythologies don't contribute to a "mature" exchange of ideas?

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    It's the "Leftists" who have been protesting the objectification of women for decades. It's the "leftists" who have demanded an end to violence against women. It's the "leftists" who have been calling for sex education in our schools so that the truth about sex addictions can be discussed openly and not shoved into the dark, as the video portrays. Jay, you're not being fair.

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."

    Except it is the repressive right who is keeping Utah from having the mature discussion in this state. Can't even think of haivng a mature discussion about anything related to sex (excpet how "evil" it is) here in Utah. While we talk about pornography addiction, why can't we also inform and educate our young people about sex and sexual relationships? Instead, we simply insist (because we won't educate) that our young people learn about sex by doing their own "research", which leads to the pornography addiction problem. If we educate, they may become less inquisitive about sex. But the repressive right can't have our young people becoming educated, can they?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 7:17 a.m.

    "The repressive left.."

    Now let's have reasonable discussion.

    And just how do you know Jay Leno or the comedian are lefties?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 13, 2014 6:30 a.m.

    "The repressive left is keeping the nation from having the mature discussion everyone needs."

    So, its only the left? Too funny.

    Is it the Left in Utah who resist real Sex education?
    Was it the Left who kept Rodins "The Thinker" statue boxed up and out of public view?

    I think most people would agree that pornography addiction is a very serious issue.

    Comparing someone viewing pornography to D-Day at Normandy might be just a tad over the top.

    Everyone who views porn is not an addict. The video does not make that distinction.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 13, 2014 5:59 a.m.

    Part of the problem that we are redefining old morality issues such that they seem almost beneficial:

    Prostitution is now “sex work” and a viable choice of work
    Pornography is a career that “empowers” its actors
    Pornography provides married couples with help in intimacy


    Sure, in some abstract, theoretical world these things might conceivably be true - but not in the real world. And our laws and policies must reflect the world we actually live in.

    Morality outside of a religious context is usually about whether something has benefits to people here and now (no afterlife allowed). Okay.

    In the real world prostitution is a terrible work choice. Dangerous in a hundred ways (yes, even where legal). Same with pornography. Yes, there are always the few who buck the trend, but overall the workers in those industries are used up and spit out. As to the benefits of using pornography? For every one story of a couple helped by it there are a thousand of folks destroyed by it.

    So let's have the morality discussion - about what is good for us here and now. And let's reject these naive views of what these industries do to us.

  • Testimony Philadelphia, PA
    Feb. 13, 2014 4:17 a.m.

    When a comedian has power over you, you have a problem. Shaking your fist at the people who are laughing is just going to make them laugh harder.

    You need to step back and question WHY that comedian has power over you. Either you weren't being serious enough, or you were being too serious, or you can't see your own words and actions from the point of view of others.

    I hope you figure it out.