Dick Harmon: BYU's decision to cast a wider recruiting net is refreshing, needed

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:31 p.m.


    I agree 100%

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    You're right, I shouldn't of said anything except that neither school has anything to brag about as far as recruiting on the national level.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:49 a.m.


    You obviously aren't following chris b as closely as the rest of the utah "fans".

    According to chris it is the indivudal ranking of the kids, not the overall ranking of the class, that really matters. utah's class ranks higher because they have more recruits signing but BYU's class has more highly ranked individual kids according to ALL of the recruiting services therefor BYU has the better class. All utah has is a bigger signing class of lower quality recruits.

    Now I personally don't care much about this stuff but since chris b, and most other utah "fans" around here constantly claim how their recruits are higher ranked it is pretty fun for me to bust all of you up over the fact that BYU's recruits are better than utah's as they are ranked higher individually, they have "more stars" in the chris b venacular. Sorry to inform you of this but you probably need to start paying attention to what really matter most to the other utah "fans" around here.

  • BlueSouth MC KINNEY, TX
    Feb. 5, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    Adirondack is spot on regarding ESPN coverage... Look no further than Boise St. and you can see the impact ESPN exposure can have on a program (it helps to win too). Their move to the MWC and their new t.v. deal is going to kill the number of 4 and 5 star recruits they were picking up. I remember thumbing through Lemmings Top 100 a few years ago and was shocked at how many of the top recruits in California were headed to BSU. I think the exposure on ESPN had a lot to do with that.

  • BlueSouth MC KINNEY, TX
    Feb. 5, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Chris B., spend some time out of Utah. I grew up on the West Coast and have spent the last 12 years in the south in 3 different states. BYU is known and respected everywhere I've lived. They're not considered SEC caliber, but still respected. Jamal's experience is the exception not the rule. I know quality athletes (not just football players) who would consider BYU, just spoke to a guy recently whose daughter was recruited by Nebraska and Wisconsin to play soccer and was disappointed that they didn't know BYU would accept non-LDS athletes when she was going through the process. She hates the party school atmosphere and would have preferred BYU had they done their due diligence. I know another non-LDS family in MS who considered BYU as a possibility for dance (she ended up at Souther MIss). BYU should have cast a larger net a long time ago because there are plenty of high quality LDS and Non-LDS kids who would love to study and play at BYU. I've put a couple of kids on the coach's radar and both received scholarships...

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:28 p.m.

    As per Rivals 2014 recruiting rankings. Utah-#70, byu-#78. Nothing for either team to brag about, but...just saying.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 6:24 p.m.

    Chris B. The bottom line is that Utah just plain Stinks. They can't win. Stars mean NOTHING! It's what is done on the field. They can't cut it!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 6:14 p.m.


    "Rose's current net only extends 15 miles north to American Fork."

    Which is of course why Rose already just signed an ESPN Top 100 Four-Star recruit from Arizona, not to mention players from Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Idaho, and Louisiana who joined the team this season.

    It's laughable how uninformed the kids on the hill are.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 4:01 p.m.

    I think that Jamaal Williams only knew a few Pac-12 schools. Let's be real here, most people in NYC don't even know that there is a state called Utah. I have lived on the East coast, and the egocentric behavior is mind boggling. They have heard of LA vegas, and Florida but after that most don't really know about the fly over zone. Personally I am glad that most Coastal dwellers don't know about the inland states. It helps keep crime and pollution out.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 3:59 p.m.

    ken you need to check your math.

    BYU Per scout 3.04
    Per rivals 2.67

    utah per scout 2.64
    per rivals 3.04

    So if both have an average of 3.04 from one of the services, but BYU's ranking from the other service is 2.67 while utah's ranking is 2.64 that means BYU's ranking would be .3 higher than utah's not .10 lower.

    Once again ken lets do this math BYU 3.04 scout, utah 3.04 rivals, that is even. BYU 2.67 rivals, utah 2.64 scout, that is BYU +.3

    I like your utah math though. LOL!

  • wahului Stockton, CA
    Feb. 4, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    @ eastcoastcoug

    Well said, well done.

    Feb. 4, 2014 3:13 p.m.

    I think Coach Rose would do well to borrow Bronco's new, large recruiting net. Rose's current net only extends 15 miles north to American Fork.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    I think 70% is being generous don't you? Or were you just trying to be diplomatic? And thanks for bringing statistics into a sports discussion...I do enough research in my job, I come here for escape from that! Lol

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    "I have a feeling that the powers that be at byu agree with you and they will continue to downgrade intercollegiate athletics."

    Je ne peux pas discuter. Saddens me.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    @ Eastcoastcougar,

    He doesn't spend too much time researching BYU. That is a cut and paste of at least 20 other posts he's made on different articles. I kid not. It gets old, but sometimes brings a smile. BYU obsessed. Yes, even more than most of us cougar fans. Chris, come to a BYU b-ball game with some of us. You'll love it! Seriously. Open invitation.

  • JapanCougar Apo, AP
    Feb. 4, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    I really don't think the 'wider net' philosophy will do much.
    The reality is that BYU is BYU. Just that fact alone will limit recruiting, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
    Air Force has a similar glass ceiling and they are proud of who they are. Harvard doesn't spend its time or focus on sports and it works well for them. Georgetown has a DII football team, but they are a top-notch University.

    BYU has more going for it than sports. I love BYU sports, but they are secondary to its overall purpose. My BYU degree helped me start a great career in spite of anything their athletic programs have accomplished.

    I hope for their athletic success, but wins and losses all become things of the past, unlike degrees and education.

  • qball714 Anaheim, CA
    Feb. 4, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    My favorite part of these comments was when BlueHusky assumed a Ute fan would ever understand what a regression analysis and R-square are.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 1:54 p.m.

    What? An article about BYU recruiting where CB makes one of the first comments (or cuts and pastes is more accurate)? I'm shocked!

    I'm glad BYU is broadening their pursuit of athletes to out of state and non LDS players that fit the honor code. I'm looking forward to seeing how it translates on the field. Hopefully getting higher star athletes will actually produce more wins and bowl games for Bronco, instead of the underachieving bowless debacle it has produced elsewhere...cough, cough.

    It's so sad, Chris, that in 2014 you won't even be able to shine that "average stars" trophy over BYU. But hey you've still got the SOS and "We've Got More NFL players" trophies to hug at night. And when it gets really cold and lonely in bowless December you can always turn on your neon PAC12 sign to brighten your spirits. And if even that fails, heaven forbid, you can turn on the dancing Santa with the "Bowls Are For Fruit Loops" T-shirt singing I'm a Utah man sir.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 1:39 p.m.


    Shouldn't an inner city high school football player know that powerhouse programs like byu are division I?

    Ever hear of an inner city high school football recruit think Michigan, USC, Florida, Texas, or Oregon are division II?

    Byu is a powerhouse right?

    Two weeks ago byu had a better rpi than duke, Kentucky, Louisville, and Michigan state.

    Lol. Keep telling yourself that matters halfway through the season when most programs are playing big time conference schedules which will increase the rpi and byu is playing nobodies.

    And yet byu fans can't give me a single example of another recruit thinking another powerhouse program was division II

    Too funny!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    I have a feeling that the powers that be at byu agree with you and they will continue to downgrade intercollegiate athletics.

  • nairbnosral American Fork, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 1:12 p.m.

    @ minion

    Um... Woody Hayes started the whole "team up north"thing. He had an intense hatred of all things Michigan. He wouldn't even say the name of the state calling it "that state up north". Urban Meyer, being from Ohio, knew this and instituted that "team down south" thing here. It was stolen from Woody.

    But I do agree - the intense hatred between the schools is his fault. And Whit, who played at BYU, has only fueled the fire.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Feb. 4, 2014 12:40 p.m.

    I watch sports occasionally (mainly superbowl and world series, and my kids' high school games, especially the ones they play in), but am not a true sports fan. So as an LDS member/ sports outsider, I'd rather BYU have players that keep the honor code, than win games. Because, they are just that, games. Real life is more important. Now, if BYU can recruit top athletes that keep the honor code, great. I think, however, sometimes we get so caught up in games that we forget the purpose of life. Is it more important to win games, or to proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints, care for the poor, and redeem the dead? With all the millions of $ that we spend on sports especially big time college football, while we still have very financially and spiritually poor people, I suggest that our collective national priorities might be off. Don't get me wrong; sports can do good if done right.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    I agree with Bronco. BYU has never lost a recruit who wanted to play at BYU.


  • minion BOISE, ID
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    Here we go again. Every sports article on BYU or Utah is like a date with the Bickersons.

    This rivalry used to be more fun—real, but harmless. Unfortunately, the current contempt that Chris B and many other Utah fans feel for BYU is a sad and lingering byproduct of the Urban Meyer years. He used the rivalry to get his players mean and focused. Granted, he did engineer a significant but temporary turnaround for the Utes. Apparently that was enough to convince fans of Meyer’s methodology, and pure hate (on both sides) became a regular part of the rivalry culture.

    Even after Meyer jilted the Utes and began a relationship with the Gators, the visceral nastiness he left behind continued to fester (again, on both sides). Meyer did the exact same rivalry routine in Florida and his team was mean enough to have 31 off the field arrests during his tenure. Somebody should have warned Florida that their reputation would be thoroughly sullied in the process. Now he is at Ohio State, and the day he got there, the Buckeyes were instructed to refer to their biggest rival as “the team up north.” No names allowed. Sound familiar?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:25 a.m.

    espnn and espnu have limitations too.

  • The Anti Chris Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:16 a.m.

    If I were a kid that was looking at BYU and u I and wanted to play on national TV every week I would pick BYU hands down. The pac won't even give u the airtime that other pac schools get, let alone that the pac network is limited nationally.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:12 a.m.

    But the beauty of it all is that once Jamal learned about BYU and the quality of the program and the school he picked BYU over anyone else. Jamal's knowledge of BYU is not an indicator of every high school kid out there. If a kid watches college football on EPSN on Saturday he will see BYU and will not see Utah. What does that say about the relevance of u football?

    Speaking of stars I noticed that Crissy left out the 2014 star numbers and also left out how the utes compare to ALL other pac schools, including WSU in recruiting this year. Funny how WSU out recruited the u this year. We can see where the programs are headed.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 11:10 a.m.

    Football is ancillary to personal growth and academic excellence. The fact that some recruits don't know much about BYU speaks to their education and not BYU's profile. The petty insults of some who comment on BYU articles speak more about their character than the thrust of the comment.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:56 a.m.

    Perhaps less time playing video games might broaden our horizons and increase knowledge of the world around us? Just a thought.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    Stop pretending that you have a national following outside of the LDS community and concentrate on not losing the quality LDS athlete to other schools.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    @ Chris B:

    You've finally proven the point that many people have been trying to make here for quite awhile. Since (as you say) Utah is recruiting within a half-star of the big boys in the PAC12 each year, but still only compete for the cellar spot each and every season, then stars obviously don't mean much.

    Another good point is that if Utah actually is beating the stars war in the state, then why does BYU spend most of each season nationally ranked better than Utah? And why does both USU and BYU now consistently go to more bowl games than Utah and finish seasons with better records?
    Don't start crying about SOS. It's certainly no one else's fault that Utah has gotten in over their heads with their current tough schedules. It was their choice.

    No one is shedding tears when you and certain other Ute fans come online and start asking for sympathy and understanding regarding your tough schedules.
    Is it tough? It certainly is. But Utah asked for it and now they have it. Learn to live with the consequences.

    So all-in-all, stars ultimately don't mean much.

  • CBAX Provo, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    @chris b,

    Beating up on my cougs means you would do well in the WAC not the PAC. If you haven't noticed the WAC 2.0 going on over here.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    @ Chris B:

    No surprises here. 2 of the first 6 comments to another BYU article are from you, still pretending to be an expert on all things BYU, and still with the same obscure footnote story you've been using for over 2 years about a single inner-city high school kid from California who previously didn't know much about BYU. Big Deal. What's even more impressive for BYU is that after learning about them, he chose BYU over all other schools.

    One high school kid out of over 100,000 that are recruited annually. Big deal. As sports news stories go, that one is truly in the running for the title of Mr. Irrelevant.

    A question... If Utah recruits so much better than BYU, shouldn't they be beating their games by more than just a single score, and not letting BYU keep consistently beating them concerning field stats?
    Almost always going to the last play of those games indicates no dominance by Utah whatsoever. That doesn't say much for them if they start out with such bigger-star athletes than BYU. So, kudos to Bronco.

    Seriously, is that all you've got... again?

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    Uh, Ken...

    If your numbers from the different services are right, then your math is wrong, unless there is data you didn't include:

    BYU (3.04 + 2.67)/2 = 2.855
    UTAH (2.64 + 3.04)/2 = 2.840

    This tidbit notwithstanding, one cannot aggregate data from one statistical sample and another and draw a conclusion unless the data was gathered the same and rated the same by the same people. They are not. We don't even know if they rated the same players, number of players, had the same number of four, three, two, one and unrated players, etc.

    From your data the only accurate conclusion would be that one service rated BYU higher, and one rated Utah higher. But thanks for illustrating that the services are subjective, as are those who tend to quote one service or another.

  • Red San Antonia, TX
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    BYU can recruit whomever they want wherever they want, but if they fire guys like Ben Cahoon who is one of the Greatest receivers of all time and have guys like Chad Lewis who actually works in the Athletic dept. at BYU but Bronco can't figure out how to actually use his help coaching the TE's then BYU deserves to lose.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    @ lifelong Ute
    Ken said "BYU 2010 scout 3.04 Rivals 2.67 Average 2.855
    Utah 2010 scout 2.64 Rivals 3.04 Average 2.865"
    so what is 2.855/2.2865 there is a .1 percent difference in what he said (I referenced Ken).
    I would recommend people using more that one source.
    247 has it 3 percent difference running average.
    scout over 5 years has a 1.5 percent
    rivals rates based on offers and interest received by a recruit.
    Scout.com has scouts throughout the country working.
    Rivals has a rating system other than stars
    where the majority of BYU's and Utah's recruits are 5.4-5.7 are deemed good prospects but not great or elite.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:28 a.m.

    Bowl Practice 3:

    Quarterback is the position most will watch heading into the offseason with Alabama’s starting role up for grabs for the first time since 2011. With five quarterbacks on the roster, including Blake Sims, Alec Morris, Luke Del Rio, Cooper Bateman and Parker McLeod, the extra work during bowl practices could help one guy separate himself from the others.

    “I think it’s a tremendous benefit to all players, but especially to young players,” Saban said. “For the seniors, it gives them an opportunity to finish their career here the right way. And to everybody else who’s coming back on the team, they have a chance to make an impression for themselves as well as the kind of football team we might have next year.”

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    Bowl Practice, continued:

    "As Saban alluded to, the biggest beneficiaries during that time are younger players, those down a bit on the depth chart and stuck behind veterans. They don’t see as many repetitions or one-on-one attention from position coaches during the regular season. The two weeks or so of bowl preparation practices are a sort of head start towards 2014 spring practice.

    Players such as Eddie Jackson or Maurice Smith, who played some in 2013 but may be tasked with broader roles in 2014. Perfecting techniques is tops on the agenda, but there’s also a chance for student-athletes to show coaches how far they’ve come.

    “We basically do a lot of fundamental things that give us a chance to show the coaches what we can do and stuff like that in terms of helping the team out,” senior wide receiver Kevin Norwood said. “I kept getting that opportunity and coach kept believing in me. I loved the bowl practices. It gave me an opportunity to showcase my talent. And that’s what this is doing for the younger guys too. And the upper guys have to focus on finishing, pretty much.”

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    Uncle Rico,

    I'm with you 100%. the average bowl team practices 14-15 times before the bowl (there is no limit) -- 15 is the limit to number of practices in spring. Bronco wasted 9 practices -- 60% of the spring allotment. Is he going to do away with spring, too? If you are worried about burnout, have non-contact practices, and guys will itch to hit.

    What does a coach who already HAS FOUR championships at two schools do? (If you want a NC why not follow the beaten path rather than reinvent the wheel?)

    “We have an opportunity for a lot of young players to sort of re-learn,” Nick Saban said. “It’s very difficult for young players to learn during the fall because you’re changing all the time, game plans and so forth. But to go back and fundamentally re-teach things that you did in fall camp and really focus on the little things that guys need to do to be successful players and try to get them to develop better habits, which are sometimes more difficult to do during the season.”

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    @CougorUte...Nahh - Its not so much we "care" about what byu does. We're just more than happy to remind them where they stand relative to us when they remind us where we stand relative to teams like Stanford and Oregon. Not much to laugh about when calling a team a doormat if you're below that doormat.

  • CougOrUte..Naah Nibley, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    Ute fans, so what if you can beat BYU in recruiting. Do I need to remind you that you play in the PAC 10+2. Maybe when you can come close to recruiting against your conference rivals you will win some games and maybe go to a bowl. Quit being fixated on beating BYU in recruiting. Worry about what's happening against the teams you play. See if you can match Stanford or Oregon, you should not care what BYU does. Get some perspective.

  • Tenn12 Orem, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    I have experienced the same thing! Poppinga lacks accountability. I know he has alienated some people since he arrived.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 9:08 a.m.


    It was a list intended for BYU fans, who know who they are, but to inform the uninformed I will describe them thusly:

    More Sammy Baigh Winners - 3 - than Utah has in its history. (BYU has 7 total, more than any other school)

    More consensus All-American QBs - 2 - than Utah has in its history. (out of 4 consensus, 7 All-American in 8 different years)

    More Super Bowl winning QBs - 1 - than Utah has in its history. (BYU has 2, Utah 0)

    An All-American Tight End (BYU has 10, total)

    A better OC than Utah has, has had, or ever will have, from whose coaching tree 3 Super Bowl coaches, 2 winners, sprung. (Holmgren, Billick and Reid studied under him)

    None were LDS when they came to BYU, but two joined the Church, showing they benefitted BYU football, and attending BYU blessed their lives. Perhaps the net never should've been "narrowed," just the holes repaired so the wrong fish didn't get through.

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:54 a.m.


    a .1% difference? At 2.635 to 3.010 that means Utah is 14% higher than byu. You may want to re-do that math pal. If you want to spin it, you could say that "byu was lower than Utah by 12%" if 12% sounds better than 14%, but its also correct saying "Utah was better than byu by 14%" It all depends on which team is the base of comparison, but either way its a 12% difference or 14% difference.

    A .1% difference? Try that math again.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:48 a.m.


    If Utah can't recruit with the big boys in the Pac 12 and Utah is irrelevant, what does that say about teams that lose the recruiting battle to Utah, like byU?

    And fyi, Utah the last 4 years has been within a half star of almost every Pac 12 team, so if you think a half star isn't much of a difference between byU and Utah, then it must not be much of a difference between Utah and the big time schools right?

    And whatever difference there is between Utah and the big time schools, multiply that by 2 to get the difference between byU and the big time schools


  • JmThms Henderson, NV
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:46 a.m.


    You just now are realizing the perspective of Chris B? At least BYU is positioned better for casting a national recruiting net. And they still offer the state's crème de la crème position for properly qualified Utah student athletes, Utah's PAC 12 membership not withstanding. Strip out the PAC powers-that-be Birkenstock bigotry and BYU, hands down, would be the PAC or anyone else's choice for an invitation to join a conference. From quality across the athletic department, to entrance selectivity, to loyal and expansive fan base, BYU has more to offer in-state or out-of-state prospects.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:45 a.m.

    @ people bragging about recruiting.
    Ken you do realize you are bragging about a 0.1 percent difference right?
    BYU and Ute fans should be worried about the fact the are in the bottom half of D-1 football in recruiting not against eachother.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    As long as BYU is letting poppinga try and recruit they will lose most of those battles. He set up appointments to meet with players and coaches and never showed up and never called to explain why. I guess he figures that he doesn't need to recruit, the players will all just show up anyway.
    Doman may not have been the best OC ever, but at least he cared about the team and was a great recruiter.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:24 a.m.


    Chris's above statement is correct. Yours is incorrect

    BYU 2010 scout 3.04 Rivals 2.67 Average 2.855
    Utah 2010 scout 2.64 Rivals 3.04 Average 2.865
    2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 all were better for Utah, even using the average for rivals and Scout like you said.
    Seriously, do you byu fans just make up things to try and prove a point?

  • couglifer South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:23 a.m.


    I just seen this on another website

    UCLA head coach Jim Mora is spreading a little bit of Los Angeles to the nation via the recruiting trail, and in turn the Bruins' 2014 signing class could take on a geographically diverse look...

    so if it is good enough for your mighty pac 12 then I guess it should be good enough for BYU

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    EastCoast - you'd like to spin this as a geography thing, but Chris isn't laughing that Jamaal Williams didn't know the location of BYU, he's laughing that the guy thought BYU was a division II school. Sure, lots of kids might now know what city the University of Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, USC, or Michigan are in.

    But when have you seen a kid say one of those schools was division II?

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    Frankly, I'm surprised. I think it is necessary and long overdue. Walk-ons are fine, but when you have so many it indicates that something is wrong with recruiting or evaluation of talent.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    Brilliant move by Bronco. Glad he finally discovered that recruiting better players will lead to a better team.

    Maybe next he will discover that practicing more than a couple of times before the bowl game is a good idea.

  • Gorum The Older makefu, 00
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:38 a.m.

    Re: Chris B

    "Per rivals AND scout, byu has never been better than 2nd in recruiting in the state for the last 4 years."

    Utah recruits over the past 5 years have averaged more stars by their names than their BYU counter parts, but your above statement is incorrect. Using the average of Scout and Rivals star ratings, BYU had/has a better class in 2010 and 2014 while Utah had the better class in 2011, 2012, and 2013.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:19 a.m.


    Less than a half star difference for the big, bad pacite over the whimpy little indy.

    Compare that to the difference between the big boys of the PAC and the whimpy little bottom dwellers of the PAC and you get a real perspective on where U really stand nationally in the world of major college football - IRRELEVANT - unranked and bowl-less!

  • JP Chandler, AZ
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:00 a.m.

    @Chris B
    You make good points. I don't often agree with you, but I can't argue with most of what you've said.

    However, to those disparaging BYU for "just now thinking of this", this was explained right in the article. Mendenhall's main objective when he took the reins was to right the ship. Now that their house is in order (mixaphorically speaking), now that they've reestablished a culture of obedience to the Honor Code, they are better prepared to recruit outside of Utah.

  • Adirondack Cougar Loon Lake, NY
    Feb. 4, 2014 6:48 a.m.

    The misconception of BYU being a D-II school will quickley be corrected as these HS players see BYU on ESPN playing other big name D-I schools. I think the tide is turning on the recruiting front. Would a player from Texas (or anywhere east of the rockies) rather play at a D-I school that consistantly has a winning record, espn coverage and bowl game dates or play for a school with a losing record and not much TV coverage for this folks back home? I don't think that kid would say, "yeah we had a 5-7 season but man was it great to a part of the PAC-12". If he did say that then there would other issues about Utah recruiting. As Utah tries to out recruit the other PAC-12 schools on the West coast they are on a very uphill battle. Time will tell.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Feb. 4, 2014 6:36 a.m.

    I'm pleased to see the wider recruiting net. We should have started this when we went independent to go along with the games we are playing.

    I'd like to see us cast a wider net in finding an OC. Bronco has hired an alum who never coached before and another alum who we had let go. Both have been disasters. I remember the days of Tollner, Holmgren and other non LDS coaches who brought something new and clever to the game.

    Bronco will have "arrived" as a great HC when he hires stronger people around him. He's been very timid and unimaginative in his hiring. LaVell's success was in who he put around him to run the team.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Feb. 4, 2014 6:29 a.m.

    @Chris B

    I'm constantly amazed by the amount of time you spend researching and thinking about BYU. Astounding.

    RE a recruit not knowing about BYU...you will find gazillions of people out there that don't know their geography or about this organization or that one. I've met tons of people internationally that know where Botswana and Madagascar are located but aren't sure about the state of Utah. They think Holland is the capital of Copenhagen (an actual joke European's have about Americans). With BYU on ESPN since 1984 playing D1 programs, it says more about some kids' geography savvy than anything else. Your quote proves nothing.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Feb. 4, 2014 5:57 a.m.

    Chris B's point was that lots of people outside of the intermountain west don't know much about BYU.

    We old guys remember the breakout years of the 1980's, but today's recruits we're unborn or little children when BYU's list of great QB's ended with the 1984 NC or Detmer's Heisman.

    Independence is putting BYU on the map. It is tough to win on the road, but that's the route BYU will have to go.

    Personally, I think it is great that BYU is reaching out to kids everywhere. It will be better for BYU to have them (both on the team and on the campus). A broader view is great for all of us.

    As for Chris' rating smak, I agree with his point about overall ranking. Higher average is good. Chris, how about putting together a list of recruits, email it to me, and I'll run the stats. My guess is that a regression analysis of success will have an R-square of less than 70%.

  • Flyer St. George, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 12:00 a.m.

    I've decided that Chris B. has BYU envy. I also think that the B stands for Brigham. At the end of the day it all boils down to relevance, tradition, prestige, and national prominence. Simply put, the Y has it, and the Utes never have. The Utes are bottom feeders in both basketball and football in the Pac12. BYU regularly goes to bowl games, and lately, the Utes have only dreamed about them. The NCAA tourney is an annual event for BYU, and once again, the Utes look to the annual game with the Y as their big dance. BYU has a Heisman winner, national championship, Steve Young, Jim McMahon, the Jimmer, Danny Ainge, a nice contract with ESPN, the Miracle Bowl, etc, etc, etc. The Utes have simply stood back and admired these accomplishments over the years.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:54 p.m.

    Rational, Were you just listing 4 players you liked? Or were you saying those guys also though BYU was a division II program as Chris mentions?

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:21 p.m.

    Chris B. If Utah is so far better in reciting then why do they Stink? Plus the scouting services don't take into account the Missionary program and that many players don't play for a couple of years.

    No matter what you say, among Utahans the Cougars will always be #1 in this state. You and your suspect numbers and your Red glasses will just have to settle for 2nd. Sure the Utes have won 4 in a row and I commend them for that. How ever they don't seem to be able to beat anyone else. What's the deal. Utah has been hit or miss for a while now and all they have to hang their hats on is the fact that they can beat BYU. You, according to your own stats should be ashamed of what the Utes and their performance. If they are so much better then why can't they play better. Anywhere else in the USA coach Whit would have been canned by now. Bronco works with a reciting list of about 30 players while the Utes can chose from hundreds of players who couldn't even make the list at BYU.

  • Top5Alive salt lake city, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:58 p.m.

    Bronco isn't known for recruiting. but isn't funny how BYU is finally thinking of this? Long over due. but good luck to Bronco.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:55 p.m.

    byu has not been recruiting very well since going Indy.

    Per rivals AND scout, byu has never been better than 2nd in recruiting in the state for the last 4 years. In fact, byu's best year of the last 4 is worse than Utah's best year of the last 4.

    2013 - 2.31(ouch)
    2012 - 2.87
    2011 - 2.58
    2010 - 2.78

    2013 - 2.96
    2012 - 3.04
    2011 - 2.95
    2010 - 3.09

    byu average last 4 years 2.635
    Utah average last 4 years 3.010

    Do higher stars guarantee wins?


    And neither does practicing, good coaching, fast players, strong players, watching film, or even scoring lots of points.

    But those help, as does having better athletes. And on AVERAGE, recruiting services get it right and the AVERAGE stars of a teams says a lot about their athletic ability.

    Best of luck to all recruits

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:48 p.m.

    Gary Sheide, Marc Wilson, Jim McMahon, Clay Brown, Doug Scovil...

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:16 p.m.

    I'm just glad we don't never loose recruits we get what we want.

  • BYU DUDE Provo, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 7:50 p.m.

    Home Run Harmon ,

    It's about time we get back to recruiting non-Mormon high-quality kids, Two names come to mind Ty Detmer and Steve Sarkisian. One joined the church and the other one didn't but both of them are fine men. Now we need to do the same thing with our Assistant coaches like Ted Thomer & Mike Holmgren.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 7:00 p.m.

    I agree. BYU is a national brand and should recruit nationally. There are growing numbers of LDS all over the country so those kids should always be vetted. There are also a lot of kids that fit BYU's standards that are not LDS and they need to be recruited as well. BYU limits itself by only recruiting a certain type of kid so in order to help offset that self imposed limitation it needs to increase the territory it recruits in. There are plenty of good, moral athletes in the world that can fill BYU's scholarships. Not all kids that are good and moral kids will come to BYU, there are other fine schools they can attend, but BYU is a fine option for them and one they should be given an opportunity to consider. It is Bronco's job to make sure those kids are contacted and made aware of what BYU has to offer them in the way of education, lifestyle, and athletics.