Civil speech one-sided?

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  • equal protection Cedar, UT
    Feb. 2, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    In Windsor, the Supreme Court explicitly recognized the “equal dignity” of the “intimate relationship between TWO people, a relationship deemed by the State worthy of dignity in the community. . . .” The government does not have a right:
    - to interfering with their rights to file taxes jointly,
    - to receive benefits under the state public pension system,
    - to adopt or serve as legal guardian of a partner’s child,
    - to receive inheritance protections, and to make medical decisions for a partner. In light of Windsor, such restrictions and disabilities imposed on gay and lesbian couples cannot stand

  • Bob K portland, OR
    Feb. 1, 2014 9:53 p.m.

    Kearns, UT
    "Yea, sure, let's excuse boorish behavior because the homosexuals are tired of being "pushed around". I guess some people have forgotten their manners, if they were ever taught any in the first place."

    --- A List of Boorish Behavior(according to me):

    1-- Mormons from Utah inundating California with lying, dirty, manipulative TV ads, clearly purposed to make parents afraid the Gays would take over their kids.
    2-- The teasing, bullying, ostracism from the community and family given many mormon Gay kids, resulting in a huge homeless Gay youth population in Salt Lake City.
    3-- Telling people they should happily accept a status that feels 2nd Class because the majority does not want to accomodate them.

    This list is endless.

    Did mormons make noise when Utah was force to outlaw polygamy? Just wondering.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Feb. 1, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    Because we all know there are NO extreme uncivil people on the far right either. This kind of editorial does not add to the discourse in a positive way. I wish the DMN would do their job and stop printing polarizing comments or stories from either side. It has to start somewhere and sometime. Here and NOW!

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2014 7:29 a.m.

    Frank, have you ever experienced the horrible discrimination that the LBGT community has? I doubt it. You are able to continue to post letters in the Deseret News as if you are one of their columnists. This is irritating as you do not represent the whole of society. The Deseret News needs to be ashamed that Frank Overfelt is published almost weekly and other people with opposing views are disregarded. Even my Strong LDS family has started taking the Tribune to get a better perspective on issues. I still am a full subscriber to the Deseret News because I hope they will start to become more open to discussion.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 6:29 p.m.

    2 bits;

    "I thought the issue was... do the people have the right to amend their own Constitution, or don't they."

    Not if it involves removing rights of other citizens.

    "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    "The Governor has not choice (in my mind) but to defend the Constitution (he took an Oath). "

    This is THE Constitution he swore to uphold:

    "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    I see now way it can NOT be a blanket ruling. It would make no sense for them to say you can't amend your constitution to preclude gay marriage in Utah... but you can in California, Alabama, etc, the rest of the 33 States that have this in their Constitutions.

    Until then, the protests and yelling at the Utah Governor will not change anything.

    The Governor has not choice (in my mind) but to defend the Constitution (he took an Oath). So until the decisions is final and it's removed from the Constitution and done with the appeals process... he kinda has to support the Constitution.

    Whether he likes it or not. Whether he agrees with it or not. He has taken an oath and it's his duty to defend our Constitution even if he doesn't like it. Until the appeal is adjudicated it's still part of our Constitution.

    I would hope Governor Herbert is not like President Obama and Eric Holder... who only defend the parts of the Constitution they LIKE. And to heck with the rest. That's not living up to your Oath if you ask me.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 3:09 p.m.

    2 bits

    I agree with you. For the sake and good of the country, the Supreme Court needs to make a ruling. If it is a blanket ruling, like Roe/Wade, then all states will have to recognize marriage in the same way. If however they rule that marriage remains a state issue, then we will be arguing this issue of same sex marriage, or plural marriage, ect. state by state for years to come. And either way, I see a more and more divided nation on this and many other issues.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    Utes Fan,
    I thought the issue was... do the people have the right to amend their own Constitution, or don't they.

    Fact is... there are LOTS of issues here (not just one).

    The Supreme Court needs to decide the issue. Once they do... there will be no issue. Until they do... all the bickering in the world won't change anything.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    Once again, everybody is missing the issue.

    The issue isn't the right for gay people to get married. The issue is what does the government recognize as marriage.

  • Liddle Bruda Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 12:22 p.m.


    One thing that I didn't hear from any of the supposed benefits were valid reasons why gay people shouldn't be married. Sure a gay man feels he is better off with his wife. Anyone ask him the reasons? Maybe it is so he can be good with his Church. Or maybe he was threatened by his wife or the state that he wouldn't be able to see his children. Whatever the reason he is with his wife instead of a husband is his. No reason to deny marriage to gay couples.

    One man who wishes he had a relationship with his dad. Great, does that mean his lesbian parents were not good parents? Would he have had a relationship with his dad if he wasn't raised by lesbians? Or would he have been worse off because he would have been raised by a single mother? Grass is always greener on the other side until that is where you are living.

    None of what this rally proves why Gays should be banned from marriage.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    You still have not demonstrated how you or your marriage is harmed by your gay neighbors. It's going to happen, your marriage will be fine and you won't notice a thing. No one will force you to enter a same sex marriage and the sun will come up tomorrow. Continue to live your lives as best you can, helping others when you can, and then you can say, "I put away selfish things and I truly am free and I can concentrate on things I know will truly bring me happiness."

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    The problem with incivility is that "some" begets more. This conversation is going down the road traveled by every sibling group in history..."who started it" is the name of the game. Why can't we all be good parents here and just admit that we don't care who started it, we just need to stop it.

    PS. Anyone attesting that groups on the right have not shown boorish and childish behavior, please cast the first stone!!

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Jan. 31, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    Opponents of marriage equality are fooling themselves, the basis of their reasons for denying others the right to marriage is bigotry at its core. No amount of "friendly" letters published in the DesNews can erase that. In fact, years from now, the DesNews archives will no doubt be viewed as a treasure trove of articles justifying discrimination. Indeed, propaganda may have the desired affect on some individuals at the time but it only serves to provide disdain as time moves forward.

    Chalk this up as another mistake made by my fellow Church members for which it'll take years and years to recover from the damage.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    Re: "Maybe they were just tired of being pushed around."

    And they show it by pushing people around that only treated them with respect and dignity.

    Yeah, that about sums up the LGBT activist agenda.

  • spyderman Murray, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 10:51 a.m.


    I was at the traditional marriage rally. I never heard anyone say LGBT was evil.
    What I did hear, was

    defense for an existing law
    a man who had same sex attraction say he is better off being back with his wife and children than in a homosexual relationship.
    a man raised by a lesbian couple talk about wishing he had a relationship with a father.

    All I heard was positive talk about the benefits of a family consisting of a father (male) and mother (female) as parents to children.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 10:34 a.m.

    Remember how outraged the media and Democrats got when some Congressman shouted to Obama "you lie" at the state of the union speech? And that was before the big lie of Obamacare came to light. Sometimes the truth is not politically correct. Especially when said by a Republican or conservative. Jesus said, ......the truth shall make you free.
    Democrats say the truth shall set the IRS on you.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    Rule of thumb: whoever in a political argument feels like they're being ignored or having their freedoms trampled on, are going to be the more annoyed side and prone to yelling. Remember when Tea Partiers were shouting down Congressmen and Senators at town halls that one summer when it came to healthcare reform because they think (correctly or not) that their rights would be violated by the bill? It's kinda like that.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    Yea, sure, let's excuse boorish behavior because the homosexuals are tired of being "pushed around". I guess some people have forgotten their manners, if they were ever taught any in the first place.

  • PolishBear Charleston, WV
    Jan. 31, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    First of all, EVERYONE (Gay and Straight) supports "traditional marriage." If anyone of my single Straight friends finds a compatible person of the opposite sex to get "traditionally married" to and settle down with, NO ONE will me happier than I. The fact that I support marriage equality for law-abiding, taxpaying Gay couples doesn't mean I'm somehow against "traditional marriage" for Straight couples.

    As for the people who oppose allowing Gay couples to marry, perhaps you should just TRY putting yourself in their shoes. Suppose you, as a taxpayer, were forced to help subsidize all the legal benefits and protections of marriage, while at the same time being denied the right to participate in that same institution. Would you find it just a BIT irritating? Remember: It's not Gay people telling Straight people that they should be allowed to marry the person they love. Frankly there is simply NO constitutional justification for this double standard.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    Maybe it's because one side uses "logic", and the other uses "emotion". The emotional side will eventually lash out, it's human nature. That's what strong emotion does to us. Logic doesn't lead you to lash out, it leads you to discuss it on a civil and hopefully constructive level with anybody who will listen (but you don't feel that same emotional response and the need to prevail at all costs).

    It's the underdog syndrome. When it feels like the majority's against you... you can get frustrated and upset... you feel like you must do something more, and take it up a notch or two, it's easy to lose control and lose patience and lash out.

    But that's rarely productive. Be patient and keep getting the message out there, without violence, threats, rude outbursts, demands you know can't be met, and a militant approach... and you will get more and more people on your side and win in the end. But being offensive, abrasive and demanding, doesn't help.

    Use honey, not vinegar.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    I guess decades of oppression, ridicule and abuse has left some people grumpy.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    Two thoughts , first by your own acknowledgement the majority of the lgbt supporters in atttendance were civil and this was the act of two people not an entire community. Second calling others evil, claiming they are a threat to children and society and pushing for laws that treat them as less then fully human is not civil.

  • isrred South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    The entire premise of your argument is that gay people and their desire to love, commit to, and marry another person is a THREAT to children and families. You call them a THREAT to sweet innocent children like murderers, pedophiles, kidnappers, child pornographers, and drug dealers. That is the most insulting, uncivil thing I can think of. I am a good, moral, upstanding citizen of this state. I am not a threat to children.

    When the entire premise of your argument is based on insult and incivility, you don't get to pretend you hold the moral high ground when it comes to being "civil".

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 31, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    The left demands civility but gives little or none.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 7:49 a.m.

    Darkness cannot tolerate light which exposes the sin. It has to shout it down. The diversity people (the Left) cannot tolerate a diversity of opinions.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 7:17 a.m.

    May be there wasn't any ushers to maintain order.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 6:49 a.m.

    @Frank Overfelt;

    "...when the call goes out to be civil, apparently it only applies to those who support marriage between a man and a woman."

    Guess what Frank. Rallying to deny marriage to couples you disapprove of is not "civil" in the first place. During the rally, LGBT were called evil among other things. That is not "civil".

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2014 1:08 a.m.

    Maybe they were just tired of being pushed around.