Herbert's speech a good blueprint for Utah

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  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 7:47 p.m.


    You may be able to convince yourself that you appreciate teachers, but I am not really buying it. Your hostility toward teachers is coming through loud and clear. I would suggest that if your job is as bad as you claim, and mine is as good as you claim maybe you should quit your job and become a teacher.

    If you read my posts you will realize that I did not complain about my salary or about my pension. I did not say that the Governor cheated me. My complaint is the Governors inability to be truthful in his state of the state speech giving the public the impression that he provided 61 million dollars for a pay raise.

    I do my very best to provide students with an education so that they can have a better life. Yes tax money pays my salary. One big difference between you and I is that I respect all people who work hard and provide a service whether they work in the private sector or the public sector.

    And by the the way if you are paying over 60% of your income to the government I would suggest your find a better tax accountant.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 3:00 p.m.


    I'll trade my salary and my pension for yours any day. I have NOTHING in my pension plan, not because I don't need a pension, but because I am self-employed and pay more than 60% of my GROSS income to taxes, Federal, State, sales, FICA, gasoline, property and all of the hidden taxes that plague us. My "salary" is also near zero because most of my customers have lost their businesses due to the fact that citizens cannot buy things other than absolute necessities.

    Your salary and your pension are paid by people like me. Yes, I do appreciate teachers, but until a teacher is willing to pay into my "pension fund", until a teacher is willing to be taxed to pay my wage, I won't lose much sleep over the fact that teachers are paid more than the people in the private sector who pay their wages and that they get a pension when most of us will work until the day we die.

    The Governor did not cheat you. You are just one of the public employees that the private sector feeds, clothes and houses.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 2:13 p.m.


    I understand the difference between how taxes are taken from my check and how they are taken from someone who is self employed but thanks anyway for the lecture.

    My pension is future income, and is part of my contract. The additional money put into the state retirement fund did not increase my pension. It increased the amount of money that the URS has to work with to manage retirement accounts for state employees. We can argue over whether the additional money from the districts is needed, but that is a different argument.

    The Governor said he put 61 million dollars in the budget for "teacher salary" increases. That is not pension increases, that is not benefit increases, that is "salary" increases. Since he did not do that, and he knows he did not do that, then that would be a lie, an untruth, a fib, or whatever you would like to call it. He also knows that even the 20 million that will not go to retirement will not go directly to teachers, there are many other areas that will chew up that money, so yes he did lie.

  • One of a Few Layton, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 2:08 p.m.

    Now I guess Becky Lockhart understands the price of speaking her mind regarding Utah's Liquor Laws.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 1:58 p.m.


    Do you think that a pension plan should be fully funded, or would you rather have your retirement eliminated? A teacher's pension is income. It is part of the teacher's pay package. Whether the teacher gets that money the month he earns it or whether he allows that money to be set aside for his retirement, it is part of his wage.

    Surely a teacher understands the basic concept of gross pay vs take home pay. We would all like to take home our gross pay. We would like to tell the Federal Government that we don't consider FICA, Medicare, and all of the other "contributions" part of our gross pay, after all, if FICA is calculated on the GROSS, but we never receive the GROSS, why should we be taxed BEFORE FICA is deducted? Most of us have less than 40% of our gross income to pay our bills, after deducting federal taxes, state taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes and all of the taxes that are tacked on when we buy goods or services.

    The Governor did not lie. You misunderstand wages and benefits.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 12:46 p.m.

    The Governor lied and he knows he lied to the people of the state of Utah when he said he has 61 million dollars in his budget for teacher pay raises. He increased the WPU not teachers salaries by 61 million dollars. Districts will be giving 40 million of that right back to the state because of a law five years ago requiring a larger contribution from districts to the state retirement fund. After districts pay increased costs for transportation, power, consumables, etc. etc., then if there is anything left they will give the teachers a little raise.

    If the Governor really wanted teachers to have a pay raise, he would have placed a line item specifically in his budget with a specific dollar value for that purpose. He did not do that, so what he would like to do is APPEAR to have given a raise without actually having to do it.

    Not very honest in my book.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    @ 2 bit, yes, Congress won't deliver. This is the most ineffective, least productive Congress in at least the past 70 years. Truman's Do-Nothing Congress was enormously productive compared to this disaster.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    "Fighting the gay marriage ban is a fools' errand,..."

    I am assuming you meant to say that fighting FOR the gay marriage ban is a fools' errand.

    I so disagree with that sentiment. It is imperative that we(Utah) fight it. I believe that the day is coming that we will see gay marriage universally accepted. I don't say that from a sympathetic stance (as I am not) but from a sense of inevitability.

    I would think that in order to gain acceptance from the majority, proponents of SSM would welcome this opportunity that Utah has to put the best arguments forward before the SCOTUS and get a ruling. This ruling would likely apply to all states. Then the advocates of SSM can use the ruling as a defense for the social change. The lack of this fair fight will simply foster resentment and backlash simply because of the underhanded way the SSM Proponents got their way (Judicial activism and legal trickery)

    The real question I would pose here is "What are the proponents of SSM afraid of?"

    They should welcome this challenge!

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 10:26 a.m.

    Re: "@ 2 bits, I thought President Obama's speech was down to earth, positive and constructive. He even cracked some jokes and showed his human side. (Esquire)...

    Whatever... I'm still not convinced he's human. (just kidding)


    If you liked it... that's great. I thought it was lofty, confrontational, and promised things HE can't deliver. He was promising what CONGRESS will do.


    His job as a leader and executive, is to share his vision. He did that. Now it's up to us (or Congress for us) to make his vision happen.

    With the tone in Washington today... I don't know if that's possible.

    And it's not just Obama's fault. But it's a little his fault. He did promise to end "Washington politics as usual" and the minute he got in the White House (with his super-majority) just turned up the heat on "Washington politics as usual" about 1000 degrees.


    Didn't say Obama's wasn't a good speech. Just a little lofty. I thought the Governor's was more down-to-earth and things he could actually do (except replacing all the school buses). But again... just my opinion.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 10:24 a.m.

    The gov's blueprint utterly ignores the fact that Utah's students are losing ground on every national measure. Utah Republicans simply won't pay the price for educational excellence in Utah. I don't know their motivations, but I could suggest a few....

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    Read the Governor's speech. It is only six pages long.

    He used his opportunity to share with us a vision of what Utah can be if we work together. He did not tell us that government would solve our problems, but that government would do those things that it is charged with doing so that we can solve our own problems (if you read his comments about the need for a good education that leads to a good job). He talked about using existing technology to improve air quality - technology that is available now.

    He said, "This debate should not be about federal dollars versus state dollars. They are all taxpayer dollars. Every dollar the government spends comes from the people, and whatever we do in Utah should be in the best interests of the people of Utah."

    He gets it. He knows who pays for government, Federal or State.

    He knows the definition of "marriage" and "family" and he will defend those institutions - without contention - because those institutions are the bedrock of society.

    Read his speech. Consider his vision.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 8:26 a.m.

    @ 2 bits, I thought President Obama's speech was down to earth, positive and constructive. Did you even listen to it? He even cracked some jokes and showed his human side.

    The Governor shows that one can be conservative and also pragmatic, even if you disagree with him on certain issues. The same can be said about most liberal Governors. Pragmatism is the key, not ideological extremism favored by the likes of the Tea Party. Or GOP extremists who censured John McCain. They will lose rather than bend. They are really no different than liberal extremists who undermined Humphrey in 1968, or many non-Mormon Democrats in Utah who won't support LDS Democrats. Pragmatism and compromise has been the blueprint for a stable nation, and I appreciate leaders who take that approach.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    A little more down-to-earth than the President's speech... don't ya think?

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 30, 2014 12:24 a.m.

    "His pledge to work with lawmakers to “create a Utah model for fixing this hole in the safety net,” referring to whether to expand Medicaid coverage, signals that compassion will not be lost in the pursuit of fiscal responsibility." I was hoping for a firm statement on Utah's participation the ACA. He ducked it.

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    Jan. 29, 2014 10:37 p.m.

    Well of course its a good blueprint! Does that surprise anyone? The DesNews is to Governor Herbert what MSNBC is to President Obama....cheerleaders.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 29, 2014 9:16 p.m.

    Fighting the gay marriage ban is a fools' errand, and a waste of every nickel put at it. And a 'delightful' notion to change the state tree? Are you sure this guy haa grip on what's important?