"My daddy can whip your daddy"! Boo hoo. Oh, my. The pettiness is
overwhelming. Besides, "What difference, at this point, does it make"?!
At some point Chris B is going to realize how much his NFL players argument
makes Bronco look like a MUCH better coach than Whitt. One coach is
outperforming his talent while the other is grossly underachieving.
From what I'd heard BYU had decided not to offer any scholarships but to
extend their holier than thou "preferred walk on" status to these
players. After all who wouldn't want to play for BYU?
Not sure how many making comments have been directly involved in a D1 Football
Recruiting Process... Locally, BYU + Utah really have taken the local recruits
for granted. Many have insinuated via their posts that BYU goes after a
"special" type of athlete - well they missed out on their poster boy
this year and a local kid. MACK RICHARDS was probably The Best
Playmaker/Receiver in Utah last year and maybe even at the College Level.
I'm a BYU Alum + a 25 seasons BYU Football Season Ticket Holder- I'm
not sure that I'm a BYU Football Fan right now. I witnessed this past
Season's underwhelming results. Not so sure about BYU's future. BYU
offers Mack Richards "preferred" walk-on but they say they want speed,
athleticism + principled-based recruit... not too sure who/what they want
anymore. I'm not interested in watching a QB who's allowed to pull the
ball + run 20+ /game when their best RB gets 10 touches + QB can't make a
read on a pass play past his 1st primary. Really? BYU needs to remember what
made them a good-to almost-great program.
poyman,Are you really going to blame the 18 to 7 difference(starting
with 2006 draft) on a mission pipeline? Right, because Bronco probably has 10+
guys that will be drafted in the next year or two window?At most
Bronco should only be behind Whittingham by a 2 year average, and that's
being generous since not all byu players go on missions and some Utah do players
do. But lets be generous to you and say 100% of all byu players go on missions
and 0% of Utah players do, even so at most you would be behind 2 years. 18 to 7
oh chris, so many inaccuracies... A coach gets recruiting credit for any player
that starts playing for his team after he becomes coach of that team... Max
Hall, Ziggy Ansah, Vic So'oto, Harvey Unga all came into the program under
Bronco and he gets recruiting Credit... He will also get credit for Van Noy,
Hoffman, Hadley, Manumaleuna, and Sorenson when they get drafted this year...
And he will get credit for Bills and Hill when they finish.As you
know (or should know) a BYU coach has a long pipeline because of Missions and
Red shirting so it takes awhile for a player to get through... In 5 to 6 years
time Whittingham will be embarrasses with a comparison to Bronco... (That is if
Whittingham hasn't been fired by then).
Tators,Who are the 2+ players byu has had drafted in the first round
in the last 3 years. You say byu has more than Utah, and Utah has had 1. Who are your 2+?This should be good...
Objectified,"Weren't most (if not all) of the 6 players
Utah had drafted into the NFL in a single year recruited by Urban Meyer, who
coached just before Kyle?"Are you sure you want to play that
game?Do you know how many guys Bronco has recruited and had drafted
in his ENTIRE time at byu? And remember, don't blame me, you're the
one who brought up recruited and drafted.Number of guys Bronco has
recruited and had drafted:10? Nope9? Nope8? Nope7? Nope6? Nope5? Nope4? Nope3? Nope2? Nope1? Nope!Zero! Bronco has NEVER recruited a guy that has been
drafted yet. Ya, go ahead and tell me Van Noy will be drafted. He'll be
Bronco's first guy EVER that he's drafted and recruited.Glad you brought up that good point though about other coaches recruiting
Regardless, they're fun to watch and follow. When you know your abilities,
the exciting thing is to exceed them and surprise others in the process. This
happens every week during the season and is one of the joys I get in following
them closely. Just imagine the excitement for the twos as they prepare to
defend the vacated one position and take possession of it.
Does anyone know whether Isaiah Kaufusi has committed somewhere all the sites
say no but his twitter account says he is byu bound?
What put Utah on the map and left it with a national reputation was Urban Meyer.
When he left, so did his shadow. Kyle was trained by Urban, so he's been
able to prolong the effect, but it's fading. That could change with
circumstances in the future, but the forseeable doesn't portend that.
Chris,Weren't most (if not all) of the 6 players Utah had
drafted into the NFL in a single year recruited by Urban Meyer, who coached just
Chris,I noticed you addressed only 1 of Tator's 5 points in
comparison of Bronco football compared to Utah football.I agree that the
number of first round picks in recent years has been equal. Scratch that one.
It's a wash.What about his (or her) other 4 points that you
failed to address?
Tator,Since 2005 byu has had 8 players drafted, 7 since 2006.
Bronco and Kyle were hired in 2005 I belive so it probably makes sense to
compare from 2006, but use whichever you prefer.Whittingham23 players since 200518 since 2006Which one of them has had
an undefeated season?Which has ended the season in the top 5?Which
has beaten end of season 10 teams twice? And which never has done that?
@ Chris B:Two questions in reply to your recent comment...1) Exactly how do you know the the specific reasons most BYU recruits pick BYU
as their first choice? 2) How many years has it been since Utah has
had "a truly amazing year" (as you put it) with Kyle as Utah's head
Tator,"His teams have had more first round NFL picks than Utah
in the past 3 years and will probably put more players in the NFL this year.
(How does Utah compare?)"You sure about that pal?byu
has Ziggy in the past 3 years. Utah has Star.Since when was 1 more
than 1?How many kids has Bronco had drafted in his time at byu? I
honestly don't know - Kehl, Collie, Ziggy, which am I missing? Bronco has
3-4 guys drafted in his entire time at BYU? Whittingham had 6 nfl draft picks
in 2010.In one year Whittingham had 6 guys draftedIn
Bronco's entire time at byu he's had 3? Maybe 4 or 5 if I'm
Correction Washington won in the early 90s
@ Chris B:Why do you spend so much time analyzing and often trying
to speak for BYU fans, and even for their recruits and their motives. What
exactly is your motive?Is it some backdoor approach to try to make
Utah look or seem better?Not working.Before knocking Bronco
too much, please consider...- He's never had a losing season.
(How does Utah compare?)- He's gone to a bowl game each season as
head coach. (How does Utah compare?)- His teams usually finish nationally
ranked higher than all other instate teams... more times than not. (How does
Utah compare?)- His football teams play on national television more than
any other instate team (How does Utah compare?)- His teams have had more
first round NFL picks than Utah in the past 3 years and will probably put more
players in the NFL this year. (How does Utah compare?)It's
obvious that most BYU recruits pick BYU for it's winning tradition. The
"BYU experience" is just a bonus over other schools.BTW: BYU
football does every single item on your list and is currently beating Utah in
the stars category this year.
I agree CBNo team in Utah will ever compete with the top teams in
recruiting.Alabama this year averages 4.0 starsBYU 2.71Utah
2.52(according to scout)Truth is Utah and BYU can be good teams but
a National Title for either of them is out of the question.USC and
Colorado are the only two teams in the Pac-12 to win in the last 50 years.Crazy that USC and BYU are the two teams in the last 50 years to win west of
byu fans would like to believe recruiting is subjective and that stars
don't matter. Nick Saban would disagree as he has among the highest star
recruiting classes ever year and has one of the best teams every year too.Byu fans also like to say "stars don't guarantee wins" in
attempt to convince themselves Bronco can turn very average "atheltes"
into national title players. Its true, stars don't guarantee wins. Here
is a list of other things that don't guarantee wins:Good
coachingFast playersStrong playersPracticingLifting
weightsWatching filmScoring lots of pointsGood nutritionDo these guarantee wins?No?do they matter?Absolutely
There is certainly nothing wrong with a kid wanting the "byu
experience"But recruits rarely pick the byu football team for,
well, football. Bronco rarely gets guys drafted. Bronco has never beaten an end
of season top 10 team, he's never sniffed a big time bowl game, he
can't beat his rival, and he has less than a .200 record against top 25
teams. Again, nothing wrong with wanting the "unique experience" of
going to byu. But usually football is not the reason players pick byu, and the
football team has never had a truly amazing year under Bronco with no reason to
think there will be one under Bronco.
@ reasonableUTE:So you feel you can't reason with BYU fans...
simply because they won't agree with you about Utah.But on the
same token, it appears BYU fans can't reason with you, either. Several have
made some good, germane points in reply to your initial inimical comment. And
yet you keep replying with a fervid, minatory attitude and won't concede
anything... no matter how much common sense the counter-arguments make. If a person can't be open enough to at least try see other
people's points of view, then perhaps it's best to not keep
participating in the dialog... or as you said "nevermind". After all,
one of the new rules is that comments have to contribute to the ongoing dialog
in a positive way and not be contentious. Just something to thing
about for next time a BYU article is posted and a Ute fan tries make it about
These kids will face the challenge of little down time in December due to bowl
game participation. If they need that extra time in December to study for
finals perhaps they should check out another program in Utah.
Utah fans...go on Colorado boards and argue with them about who's better.
They're your new rival remember? BYU fans just don't care about U
anymore. The next two years we will have our sights set on other things while U
continue to flounder, lose your HC, and enjoy another couch potato bowl.
I'm sure Colorado would love to hear from you, or even Stanford fans. Ya go
talk to the Cardinal fans about how you're better than they are after
beating them. I'm sure they need a good laugh after their tough loss in the
Can't wait to see these guys walk onto the field for BYU. I am also very
hopeful that our DB's get healthy. Go Cougars!
reasonableUte:According to the arguments you've been making
here online, head-to-head games are all that's needed to determine the
better team.If that were actually true, then consider this:- Stanford beat Oregon, so Stanford is the better than Oregon.- Utah
beat Stanford, so Utah is better than both Stanford and Oregon......
that is, according to your logic. Isn't it obvious how
unreasonable it is to base everything on one head-to-head game per year in
deciding who the better team is? Upsets happen to most teams during most
seasons. But that does NOT mean the team doing the upsetting is the better
team... except on that single day, but not overall. Otherwise, everyone from
Stanford should still be paying homage to Utah.It's very
possible one of Utah's in-state single-score wins was an upset. It
should be obvious why national rankings are more important.This
concept seems so simple and obvious. I don't see how it can evade you so
easily. Unless, that is the only argument you can make in behalf of the Utes. In
that case, you need to consider the bias in your argument.
@ Alex Tif Utah beat byu they wouldn't be 0-11@
Tater, if I can't have it both ways, you can't either. The
difference between your argument and mine is that Utah and Stanford play in the
same conference, so comparing their schedules is much more practical. There is
no comparison between... nevermind, I don't even know why I bother trying
to reason with byu fans.I really shouldn't care what byu fans
think as long as they keep losing to my team.
How many times have seen teams that beat other teams in the polls still behind
them in the polls? Obviously the pollsters think that one game was a fluke and
that the team that lost was the better team.
It's ok for the byu "fans" to think that they're a better team
overall, as long as we keep beating them.
How many times have we seen teams that have beaten other teams that are ranked,
still ahead of them in the polls. Obviously the voters in the polls consider
them the better team.
@ reasonableUte:Your arguments seem to keep forgetting that upsets
happen in sports. You keep basing your entire argument on one game a season. If
that's all you have to hang your hat on, then so be it. But few are buying
into it. Ranking services take into consideration multiple,
objective, quantifiable criteria each and every week of the season to determine
how all teams are doing compared to all other college teams in the country. That
negates upsets.That's the reason nobody suddenly ranked Utah
better than Stanford when Utah upset them. Every reasonable (apparently
you're not) college football fan recognized that Utah was better than
Stanford that one day, but not a better team overall. And this entire argument
is about who finished the season as the best in-state college football team. So based on objective national rankings, it's:1. USU2.
BYU3. UtahHowever, you did manage to beat out Weber.@ Brave Sir Robin:What a silly statement. I'm pretty sure
everyone else reading and commenting here knows we're talking about college
football. As such, you're not forcing anyone to admit to anything. Try a
little harder to keep up.
@reasonableUTEA simple rivalry game doesn't determine who the
best team in the state is. Get real here. BYU could be ranked #1 in the AP,
while Utah could go 0-11, have the worst SOS in the country, yet still manage a
victory in Provo. Why? Because it is a rivalry. ANYTHING can happen. One game
does not determine a season. The Utes upset Stanford. Awesome game by the way.
Does that make them better than the Pac-12 champion? Most Ute fans would like to
think so. Congrats on winning 4 games in a row. Clearly proving that
Kyle Whittingham knows how to prepare for the rivalry game, while Bronco
obviously doesn't.STOP trying to pull this bogus argument that
the Utes are the better program. Let's see a winning season and a bowl
invite before you bring this up again. Best of luck to your head coach in the
hopes of keeping his job this year.
@ reasonableUTE:I thought you were talking about how the in-state
teams are overall... and not just on one particular game a season. So according
to you, Utah is definitely a better team than Stanford, since they beat that one
game during the season. Do you or any reasonable person actually believe that?
Of course not! That's why we look at the big picture in deciding who is
best.You are talking about a single battle (the only thing
you've got). I'm talking about the season long war. Utah won the
former, BYU usually wins the latter. In light of that, and according
to almost all national ranking services, BYU is usually and consistently ranked
higher and usually finishes most seasons ranked better than Utah. That's
the bottom line and the most telling fact.I will concede to you that
USU is a better team than Utah... as you insinuated. And I'd say they were
over BYU too, had BYU barely beat the Aggies. But they dominated them by a wider
margin than any other team did all season long. And BYU finished ranked higher
than them, also. So again, it's still BYU.
It's cute to see all the concerned Ute fans on these boards week in and
week out. But shouldn't you be worried about your own football
program? With wins, recruiting, and relevance steeply declining how can you
hope to be competitive? Especially without a win over BYU to keep that fragile
Ute ego intact? Then there is the fact that you will be without your head coach
and probably entire coaching staff this time next year.... awwww, now I feel
bad. I guess you guys can spend as much time on these boards as you need to if
it will help you cope with reality.
reasonableUTE,No realistic BYU fan actually believes BYU is a better
team than Utah head to head. Utah is always better prepared, better coached,
and yes, has better athletes. But it is important to keep in mind that
teams usually progress as the season goes on. If the Holy War was played in
November, the results could easily go the other way. Not an excuse, but you
have to look at the finished product each season as well as the head to head to
determine who was in-fact the better team overall. Utah did play a grueling
schedule, but it's not like BYU's schedule was a walk in the park, it
was also a top 30 schedule much tougher than many BCS teams face. And as far as recruiting goes, it appears BYU is gaining momentum with each
class while Utah seems to be losing momentum. The Utes have lost 2 big
commitments in the last couple weeks, one to Boise St. and one in appears to
Nebraska or Oklahoma. While BYU is retaining top recruits despite offers from
elite programs (Fred Warner, Nick Kurtz).
Wayne Rout,BYU has been searching for 'more speed' for a
long, long time. I have been watching their games and following them since 1984.
Some times they get some and often times not. There is not typically a lot of
speed in the LDS athlete pool. BYU gets good athletes though. And probably will
continue to do so. But their worth often times is heavier on technique,
character, and overall production in their sport - often times not due as much
to overall physical athleticism. Is that equation going to change? Probably not.
BYU has to make do more with maximizing scheme, execution, etc etc. For example,
this past year in football they 'left a lot on the field' in terms of
scheme and execution. Their record could no doubt have been better with
maximizing those things, despite maybe giving up a bit with regard to certain
athleticism qualities in some ways. And they still went to a bowl game....
@ duckhunterUtah is a program in serious decline? What does that say
about byu?I don't understand recruiting rankings smack on the
Utah or BYU side honestly. The only real way to determine which team has the
better players and coach is by having those teams play each other, and watching
those players go head to head against one another. We all know how that turns
out every year for Utah and BYU.BYU fans say, "well byu finished
ahead of utah in the rankings this year so they are the best program in the
state." Completely ignoring the fact that Utah State finished ahead of byu
in the rankings and finished with a better record. If you go by head to head
wins, Utah is the best program in the state. If you go by end of season rankings
Utah State is the best. No matter which way you slice it, BYU is cannot be the
logical choice for the best in state program.
Players that sign with byu make a unique commitment and should be
congratulated.Chris B,Let them sign who they can, they're
not a threat.
@worf"BYU has won more football games, (year in & year out),
for decades,-than any other team in the state."Wrong. My
nephew's Pop Warner football team wins like 13 games every year. Clearly
they are the best football program in the state.Or is my logical
fallacy going to force you to recognize your own?
christina BYU's class is higher than utah's in average star rating on
both Scout and Rivals. utah's is rated higher overall because of total
numbers of committments but they have virtually no chance of catching BYU in
average stars, and that gap will widen if Damien Mama, the #1 rated offensive
guard in the country, commits this weekend. utah is a program in serious decline
and that trend is going to continue as the losses continue to pile up.
@ TatorsSo you are saying that Utah State is the best program in the
state? They finished with the best record, and were ranked the highest at the
end of the season. So according to your logic, despite the fact that Utah State
lost to both Utah and BYU they are the best program in the state. Hopefully by
now you can see how ridiculous your argument is.
@ TatorsOnce again, a byu fan conveniently overlooks the fact that
byu hasn't beat utah in 4 years. In regards to who recruits better, I think
star rankings are a complete waste of time. The only way to tell who recruits
better players is pitting those players against each other. Utah has won 4 times
in a row against byu.you are right, the teams can't switch
schedules, so arguing that because one team has more wins they are better is
ridiculous. Any sane person knows the only practical way of deciding which team
is better is by pitting them against each other and watching the game play out.
We both know this is true, stop trying to pretend it isn't.
Ernest That is what EVERY fan says of EVERY class every year. We
won't really know for 3 or 4 years (or in BYU's case 5 or 6)
This is gearing up to be one of our best, if not the best recruit class ever.
I am certain that these are fine young men. They also look like more of the
same. It should be obvious by now that the present level of recruits cannot
take us to the next level of performance. The Cougars need more
"speed" (you know what that means), size, and strength. Still, no
matter how good they are, without a more creative offense 7-9 wins is the best
we can do. Being able to score inside the twenty is a hallmark of a successful
program. Unfortunately, it is not BYU's strength.
@ reasonableUTE:Since BYU and Utah will never be switching
schedules, we have to decide on what those 2 teams do with the schedules they
have.And you have to concede one overlooked point. Kudos to BYU for
not getting in over their heads regarding their schedules. Utah truly seems to
be drowning with their conference schedules. They would've been
better off impressing everyone in the MWC than being made fun of as a consistent
cellar team in the PAC12. No doubt their fans would be happier, too. And Utah
wouldn't be needing to change offensive coordinators every year.So in light of that, BYU does win more games, qualifies for more bowls and is
consistently ranked better nationally than any other college football program in
the state. How could any objective observer not rate them as the best in the
state? @ Chris B:Though obviously still an ultra-Ute
fan, thank you for being more civil than with most past anti-BYU comments. I see
progress being made which might lead to actual, meaningful back and forth
commenter dialog. Such things are appreciated.
@ Chris B:Everything appears normal. The original anti-BYU being one
of the first once again to comment on an article 100% about BYU.One
clarification, Chris. The things you mentioned... winning the head-to-head
battle in recruiting... is mostly subjective... one person's opinion over
another. Thanks for yours, but it doesn't seem to carry much weight with
most of the other people commenting here. The article mentioned some
of these players also being recruited (and perhaps even offered) by Utah. And
yet they've have already committed to BYU. Not an indicative sign of any
other school winning a recruiting "war" against BYU. All schools win
some and lose others.Even player stars is mostly subjective.
Different people rate different strengths differently. Not all rating services
rate each player the same. So again, who won or wins the recruiting
"war" is mostly just opinion. How each team does on the field is what
really counts. Who usually wins the most games... BYUWho
lately has won head to head... UtahWho is consistently ranked higher...
BYUWho plays and wins more bowl games... BYUWho plays on national tv
the most... BYU.
Just a little research doesnt matter much because signing day is about a week
away.Head to Head BYU-3 Utah-1BYU 2.71 star average Utah 2.52Utah is tied with colorado for 2nd worst star average in power conference
recruiting classes (Wake Forest worst).BYU is better in star average than
12 power conference schools.Utah class is 7 commits larger it is higher to
maintain the high stars with the bigger class.Both teams are working on
some good recruits that could bring the average up, or other recruits that could
bring the average down.
worfDo you honestly think byu is better than the other two top
programs in the state? Honestly? If byu and Utah switched schedules
last year what would their records have been? Utah would have had at least one
more win than byu did because Utah beat byu. Byu would have been 4-8, 5-7 if
they got lucky, if not worse than that.How byu fans could possibly
think they have any bragging rights of utah fans is absolutely 100% beyond me.
byu has lost 4 in a row to utah. you have to be delusional to somehow convince
yourself that byu is better. it just doesn't make any sense at all to a
rational human being. I'm not saying utah is hot stuff, or that
they are miles ahead of byu, but they have proven 4 years in a row that they are
clearly the best program in the state.
Maybe they just wanted to play in a bowl game during their college careers?
Chris B,It sure would be interesting to see if that team you speak
of is going to be able to win enough games to keep the coach employed. That
isn't a powerhouse program. Of course you could be referring to SUU.
I'm sure these recruits are relieved to know that they aren't being
recruited by a lame-duck coach. I would really hate to be recruited by a coach
with one foot out the door. I'm sure these kids will do great.
BYU has won more football games, (year in & year out), for decades,-than any
other team in the state.I'm sure this class will keep the
It will be interesting to see if byu can reverse the trend of 4 years in a row
losing the recurring battle both head to head and average stars to a power
conference program here in our state. In fact, byu's best average star
rating of the last 4 years is still worse than the worst year of the last 4 for
that power conference program. Best of luck to all recruits.
Other than Trey Dye, who played in our league before he moved to Texas, I have
no idea how good any of these kids are as players. But one thing you can count
on is that these kids have been well vetted for character and all that come will
be fine additions to our community. Congratulations to those that are already
committed and to those still trying to decide I hope you find what you are
looking for here and decide to come to BYU.