@khHey if that single win is what helps you lie to yourself and
claim utah is good then I'm not going to try to take it away from you. The
utah "fan"base is tenuous at best anyway so whatever it is they need to
use to hold onto a couple of them is probably justifiable.
I think the "News" team is better than the "Deseret" team. I
mean one has BOTH Reilly and Van Noy. Who's gonna stop them?
Duckhunter,Utah has beaten byu 4 years in a row.Utah has
beaten byu 9 years in the last 12. After the annual Utah win over
byu, the two teams have very different schedules. Utah plays a PAC 12 schedule,
where they are often the underdogs, going up against USC, Stanford, Oregon,
UCLA, etc. byu then plays a schedule full of teams like Idaho St., Middle
Tennessee St., Nevada, New Mexico St (last year), etc. byu has 7 or 8 built in
wins. Yes, byu is and should be favored in these games. They also schedule a
couple of good teams like Wisconsin and Notre Dame and they lose those games.
If byu and Utah played the same schedule you would have a good
point. But they don't. Utah is in the PAC 12 and byu has a game next year
against Savannah St. Utah may lose against Oregon and byu will win against
Savannah St. Does that make byu better than Utah? Absolutely not. The only way we can compare the two teams is head to head and against similar
competition. Utah beat byuUtah beat Utah St.byu beat
Utah St. These are the only games we can use to compare. Utah is better.
@bookonwomen"That's what divides winnable games vs a really
tough schedule."No, that's what divides a team better than
most of their opponents from team worse than most of their opponents.
That's what divides a team that goes into their games respected from a team
that goes into most of their games with no respect. That's what divides a
team that wins most of their games and goes to bowl games every year from a team
that loses most of their games and sits home during bowl season. That's
what divides a winner from a loser. That's what divides BYU from utah.
Where's Wayne Howard when you need him?
GT? Utah beat them in '11. BYU has beaten them soundly the last 2 years.
GT is a well known name but it is a winnable game that BYU is favored to win.
BYU was favored by 7 over GT and favored in 9 of their 12 games. Utah however
was the underdog in 8 of their 12 games. That's what divides winnable games
vs a really tough schedule.
my team is in a premier league, so that makes us good too! hey everyone look at
us! give us credit! give us respect! we should be included! what about us?
don't forget us! we count too! hello? anyone?said every ute
By the way, Sagarin final rankings for 2013 (by the way, BYU fans love Sagarin),
Utah 35th, BYU 36th, and Utah St. 41st. Interesting!
bookdudeSince when is Georgia Tech an automatic win?The
Utes have exactly ONE win against a PAC team with a winning record in three full
seasons in the league. Truth is, you only belong as cannon fodder for the big
boys of the conference to pad their conference records.2-7 in your
3rd season in the conference is NOT competitive, regardless of how many
"moral victories" you count.
@atl134 I guess I will have to give you that. I was too focused on in state
rivalries, where when all is said and done, BYU and Utah are on similar levels.
Give USU a couple more years of their current level of performance and they will
be there too. They have to win a few more in state rivalry games to say they are
there. But we are not far off.
BC Why are you talking about last year? BYU lost to 4 of the 5 teams that were
ranked, 2 of which were WAC teams that played a very weak schedule and were
questionable to be ranked at all. Here is where Domans words ring true though
" Schedule at least 6 wins" Idaho, Hawaii, New Mexico St, Weber St, GT,
WAZU (Utah beat them 49-6 that year) SDSU. If you beat the #5 Team in the
country And PAC 12 champ, saying U don't belong is idiotic.
@CougOrUte...Nahh" Just a few observations , whether you like it
or not Head to Head schedule does count. If your team beats my team, you have a
better team. "I would disagree with that, even as a Ute fan.
Head to head is useful as a tiebreaker if the two teams are similarly ranked but
upsets happen. Stanford is still better than Utah despite their head to head
result, for instance.
bookonLast year BYU played 5 teams ranked in the Final AP Top 25,
Utah only played 2.BYU won one and lost by a total of 10 points in
three of the others.Utah lost both.BYU finished 8-5 with a
bowl win.Utah finished 5-7 with no bowl.Utah got exactly what
they bargained for when they joined the PAC; if U can't cut it, go back to
the MWC or WAC where U belong.
Brandon Doman has repeatedly said on 1280 that BYU designs a schedule with at
least 6-8 built in wins. Utah is in a power 5 Conf. They don't choose the
majority of their schedule. Your either in a major Conf or your not. I hope the
power 5 break off as is being talked about right now. This year BYU
played 2 teams ranked in the final ap top 25, Utah played 5 and 1 other 35th in
votes. Clearly not the same schedule.
@ kh;By the same token, even though Utah was just a few plays away
from a winning season, they also won several times by a single score, meaning
they were also just a few plays away from being 2-10.That philosophy
has to be applied to both sides equally. Also, considering
Utah's schedule next season, it's most likely they'll finish with
an even worse record. And if so, it will be interesting to see if you still
maintain your present perspective of liking such "challenging"
schedules. Prior to the Utes joining the PAC, when Utah had
impressive winning seasons and went to bowl games, I distinctly remember their
fans being much happier than they have been recently in the PAC12. No doubt
whatsoever.As such, I still contend that a challenging schedule just
tough enough to still allow a winning season is enjoyed more (than what Utah has
recently had) by coaches, players and fans. No team or fan enjoys sitting home
during college bowl season... regardless of their conference or schedule. It's obvious USU fans enjoyed themselves more in their MWC than Ute
fans did in their prestigious PAC12 this past season.
"4 years of being the PAC 12 patsie" Year 1 Utah finished 8-5 and won
the Sun Bowl and 1 game out of being in the PAC 12 championship game. Overall
was 6th place. Year 2 Finished 9th but blew out WAZU and Cal to create a clear
line from the bottom of the league. Year 3 Beat #5 and Pac12 champ Stanford and
lost by 1 to south champ ASU. Ask Stanford coach David Shaw if Utah is a patsie?
he said everyone in the Pac12 knows playing at Utah is one of the toughest games
in the conference. Ask Graham, Mora ect.
@ KH:In your comments and replies, you keep saying things and
insinuating that BYU played a patsy schedule last season. You need to be
reminded that BYU's schedule was ranked harder and tougher than any that
the Utes had ever played prior to this past season. That being the case, you
should man-up and give some credit where credit is due... especially since BYU
went with that schedule, finished with a winning record and played in a
post-season bowl game... things that Utah did not accomplish.With
that in mind, if you still maintain your current line of reasoning, you're
actually saying Utah has ALWAYS played patsy, easy schedules prior to the latest
season. So, is that true?
I would put money down that Utah ends up with more of this years starters in the
NFL than any other team in the state. If you were to count up the number of NFL
players from every team in the state by year, Utah will beat every other team
every year for the past 10 years. A trend that won't change any time soon.
It is amazing how articles featuring BYU and Utah end up being a discussion
(argument) about strength of schedule or Independence vs Membership in the PAC
12. Just a few observations , whether you like it or not Head to Head schedule
does count. If your team beats my team, you have a better team. This is hard to
accept for an Aggie fan, but it is true. Secondly, being in a great conference
does not make you a great team. If you play in a tough conference , and lose
to everyone you are not a great team. But undoubtably the best team in Utah this
year. Based on head to head. I believe this is a make or break year for Coach
Whit this year. 4 years of being the PAC 12 patsie has to grate on the majority
of Utah fans. And looking at their schedule next year they could go 2 and 10.
Not knocking your team, you have a very tough schedule. Coach Whit could be gone
by Christmas if the Utes don't do better. And the Cougars due to strength
of schedule are going to have to win out to get a sniff of the top 25.
The PAC-12 went 14-1 vs the MWC, BYU and USU. The PAC-12 had 6 teams in the the
Final AP top 25. End of discussion
KH"Utah beat #11 StanfordLost to #16 UCLA by a
touchdownLost to Oregon St. in overtimeLost to #21 Arizona St. by
1"It's funny how Utah fans didn't give BYU any credit
whatsoever last season, even though BYU had superior results against ranked
opponents.BYU beat #16/#17 Utah State by 3Lost @ #3/#4 Notre
Dame by 3Lost @ #18/#14 Boise St by 1Lost to #20/#19 Oregon St by
18Lost @ #21/#21 San Jose St by 63 of BYU's 4 losses
versus FIVE ranked teams were on the road by a total of 10 points, all 4 losses
by a total of 28 pointsUtah's 3 losses to FOUR ranked teams
were by a total of 31 points.Oregon St(7-6) wasn't even ranked
at the end of the season, and let's not forget, the Beavers lost to Weber
St conference mate Eastern Washington to open the season.The real
choice isn't whether you'd rather lose to PAC 12 teams or win against
lesser teams; the real choice is whether you'd rather whine about your
tough schedule or go to a bowl.
Black&Blue,I understand that nobody is arguing that Utah plays
in a premier conference. I'm arguing that it is better to play in a
premier conference and struggle than to play a bunch of patsies and make a bowl
game. That is my argument. I agree with you. Utah's PAC 12
road games have been tough to watch and they definitely need improvement.
KHNobody is arguing that Utah plays a tough schedule in a premier
conference. And yes, Utah can be competitive at times, but only on their home
turf. Utah is a whole different team when playing @ home, and showed they can be
competitive with the best in the conference when playing in SLC, so I can
understand your optimism.But...If you look at Utah's record vs
PAC-12 teams on the road... Well its something like 1-8 over the past 2
years....with the only win coming @ Colorado by 1 touchdown.
Tators,Competitors want to play against the best. Think of it this
way: Are you a Jazz fan? If so, would you want the Jazz to play in the NBA
where they are struggling, or in Europe where they can compete for a
championship every year? Of course you'd want them to play in the NBA,
right? It is fun to see your team play against the best. As for the
Utes being "over their heads", let's take a look shall we? Besides the annual win the Utes have over byu, let's examine PAC 12
play:Utah beat #11 StanfordLost to #16 UCLA by a touchdownLost to Oregon St. in overtimeLost to #21 Arizona St. by 1Yes Utah has struggled in the 2nd best conference in the nation. But looking
at these close games makes me optimistic that Utah is just a play or 2 away from
winning 3 more games this year and finishing 8-4, possibly 9-4 with a bowl game.
Again, I'd rather play against the best rather than pad the W
column playing Idaho St, Middle Tennessee St., etc.
@khYou got the "struggling" part correct.
BigSportFan!Hahah I love it! Just like you Ute fans to base an
entire season off a couple good games. Each team I mentioned lost at least 4
games and was unranked at the end of the year. Arizona had one quality
win over an opponent with a winning record. WSU did indeed beat my
Trojans, but also lost to Colorado State and got destroyed by OSU. And
OSU was beaten by an FCS team. I understand Ute fans have had to
drop their standards lately for what is considered Mediocre. But most people
with a half decent IQ would not consider any of these 3 teams good or great.
Inconsistently good maybe, but that would leave us right on the doorstep of
mediocre wouldn't you say? Cheers.
@ KH:Why on earth would you prefer to struggle against a level of
competition that leaves your team with lousy and losing records that no other
team in the state envies... and that leaves nearly all your fellow Ute fans very
frustrated at the end of the season? Why wouldn't you or any
other Ute fan prefer a more moderate schedule that could allow your team to
enjoy a winning record and consequently play in post-season bowl games...
something the Utes haven't done for a few years.It's
actually quite silly to prefer a tough enough schedule that keeps leaving your
team in the basement of their conference and causes your head coach to change
offensive coordinators every year and worrying about keeping his job.The worst teams in the nation can play ultra-tough schedules and end up with
losing records. That doesn't prove anything positive at all. So why would
you prefer such a scenario to something more livable where your team could
actually be competitive? The Utes are obviously in over their heads
with the schedule they currently struggle with.As such, your
reasoning is difficult for reasonable people to understand.
Wow! Something like 8 of the first 10 comments to this article were from known
Ute fans... anxious to defend their team from what most people knew would be
quite predictable results.Uncle Rico makes a good point. Wilson
played in a game won by the Utes over a team finishing in the top-10
nationally... something not often done by players in this state. But on
the other hand he also lost, even at home, against some very mediocre teams.
Obviously, a lack of consistency hurts in the voting, as it should.That also proves that only a few good performances over an entire season
won't get players all the accolades which that team's ultra-fans
always think their players deserve. Winning one or two battles
doesn't often translate into winning the war, even though many fanatical
fans seem to keep thinking it does... or should. Multiple times
I've read juvenile chants such as "We beat you, so no matter how bad we
are, you're worse" during this past season. At first they're
irritating. Eventually, they seem funny as one can't help but feel sorry
for a mind that conjures up such silly rhetoric.
KHDid you even read my comment? I acknowledged that Utah had a very
touch schedule, beat all 3 in-state opponents, and even beat a top 10 team. But
then you lost to a 7-6 OSU team, an 8-5 Arizona team, and a 6-7 WSU team. 3
games against MEDIOCRE teams that cost the Utes a bowl game. Are you following
me? And then my question was, "how long will the "We played
a harder schedule" excuse hold up? Especially without a win over BYU to rest
your season on?" Your response tells me all I need to know. When Utah goes 3-9 the next two seasons without wins over BYU to rest your
season on, there will be a mass exodus of Utah fans jumping ship, and it will be
glorious. But at least you will be playing good competition...
"But then you lost to a 7-6 OSU team, an 8-5 Arizona team, and a 6-7 WSU
team. 3 games against MEDIOCRE teams that cost the Utes a bowl game. Are you
following me? " Arizona with a 42-16 win over #5 Oregon is
mediocre? AZ beat UNLV 58-13 while USU barely survived at UNLV. Washington St won at USC, lost at Auburn by 7, beat SUU like a drum.Oregon St embarrassed Boise, 3-0 vs MWC, lost by 1 at Oregon, had 1 of the
best QB and WR in the country. Mediocre? do you actually watch
tdlawton"I guess one could say that Washington St (Utah's
worst loss on paper) was mediocre, but those Wazzu Cougars were still a lot
better than the Virginia Cavaliers..."Which proves exactly
what?...Washington State(6-7) wasn't as good as Texas(8-5), Mid
Tenn St(8-5), Utah St(9-5), Georgia Tech(7-6), Houston(8-5), Boise St(8-5),
Wisconsin(9-4), Notre Dame(9-4) or Washington(9-4).BYU beat SIX of
those teams to become bowl eligible.The truth is, the 5-7 Utes won
three games that they could have easily lost (Utah St, BYU, and Stanford), and
lost one that they should have won (Washington St).Utah was closer
to finishing 3-9 than to 6-6.
Fight On, I'm glad to hear that you did not disagree with my
comment, that the "mediocre" teams on Utah's schedule are at a
different level than the average byu opponent. At least we agree on one thing.
byu can keep beating bad teams and win 8 games. I'll take the struggle
against top competition.
"But for the second year in a row, Utah failed to beat the mediocre teams on
it's schedule and was home for the holidays again."Can you
name the mediocre teams Utah failed to beat? Utah played 12 teams, 10 of the
them were Bowl teams (the most in the nation). Utah beat both non-Bowl teams on
the Utes schedule and went 3-7 vs. the Bowl teams. I guess one could
say that Washington St (Utah's worst loss on paper) was mediocre, but those
Wazzu Cougars were still a lot better than the Virginia Cavaliers...BYU lost two games to non-Bowl teams and was still able to have a winning
record thanks, in part at least, to catching Boise State and Utah State w/
back-up QBs and having some less than mediocre teams like Idaho St, Middle
Tennessee, and Nevada on their schedule.What happened when BYU
played Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Washington, and yes Utah?
KH"The mediocre teams on Utah's schedule are at an entirely
different level than the average BYU opponent."Don't kid
yourself; Washington State(6-7) was a very mediocre team. The Wazoo blew a big
lead in the New Mexico Bowl in losing to Colorado State(8-6) 45-48. At least 10 of the 13 opponents on BYU 38th-ranked schedule would have beaten
both of those teams, Utah, obviously, not being one of them.
gdog3finally"You can't compare overall records when the
schedules are nothing alike."So why did Utah fans insist that
Utah 2004 (#67 SOS) and Utah 2008 (#56 SOS) deserved a shot at the national
championship even though Utah's schedule wasn't even as good as
BYU's 2013 schedule (#38 SOS)?It's sad how Utah fans have
trashed the credibility of their own pre-big boy conference accomplishments in
their frantic and emotional attempt to discredit BYU.BYU 2013, with
a schedule that was better than any schedule Utah had ever played prior to 2013,
finished 8-5 with a bowl game.Show me a Utah team that has ever
finished with a winning season and a bowl game after playing a schedule ranked
38th or higher.
Not one BYU offensive lineman should be on this list. Especially Ryker
Matthews, who was injured most the season. Honestly, outside of the Texas game.
BYU was dominated at the line of scrimmage against every decent opponent we
played. 6 sacks given up against Utah! The only BYU players that
should be on this list:Taysom Hill- The was the most dominant player
in the state once his passing improved. He Kept BYU in every game. Jamaal Williams- Running behind an atrocious line he still ran for over
1,000ydsCody Hoffman- Caught anything thrown even close to him. Best
receiver in BYU history.Kyle Van Noy- Easily the best LB in the
state. Maybe even in the West, outside of Anthony Barr. Will be a 1st round
draft pick.Robertson Daniel- 3rd string corner that stepped up and
shut down opposing receivers. Adam Hine- He was a threat to take it
to the house on every return.
Fight On"But for the second year in a row, Utah failed to beat
the mediocre teams on it's schedule and was home for the holidays
again."The mediocre teams on Utah's schedule are at an
entirely different level than the average byu opponent. I wish Utah had
byu's schedule. We'd have 6 or 7 very easy for sure wins every year.
Wait, I don't wish that at all. I love the competition Utah plays in the
Truly one of the most comical read in a long time.Utah # 4 in the
Pac-12 and #8 in the country in sacks has only 1 D-lineman on the team. Talk
Holy Smokes, You Utah fans are so insecure. Everybody knows
that Utah's 2013 schedule is Murder's row, every Utah fan uses that
excuse. And yes Utah did win all 3 in-state match ups and beat a Stanford team
that finished ranked #11/#10. But for the second year in a row, Utah failed to
beat the mediocre teams on it's schedule and was home for the holidays
again. The question is, how long will the "We played a harder
schedule" excuse hold up? Especially without a win over BYU to rest your
Virginia, I know your papa probably said, "If you see it in the D-news, it
is so." So don't let me cast doubt with facts and logic. How dreary
would the world be for some fans if their team was not all the D-news makes them
out to be? As proof to what many say about strength od schedule,
consider this. "Tiger, tiger, tiger." LSU, Auburn, and Savannah State
are all tigers and only BYU plays any of these next year! How impressive is
Jordan Johnson from BYU did not play in 2013, should not be eligible for your
Heh, considering these teams you'd think Utah's coaches would be
picked because apparently they get their wins with inferior talent...
I am pretty sure the DNews hacks picking these teams were trying to tweak the
nose of Ute fans... *shrug*... In this case I think we should at least check the
numbers.Not that any single rating system is foolproof, but at least
Sagarin is objective and takes SOS in to account:2013 end of year
Sagarin rankings:# 34 Utah SOS # 3# 35 BYU SOS # 38# 41 USU
SOS # 74#171 SUU SOS #169#228 Weber St. SOS #147If Utah
has so few top flight players they must have had great coaching, oh... not
according to the shills at the DNews.
Way to represent SUU. Guess the boys down south are better then some people
BYU plays teams like Idaho State, Middle Tennessee State, and Nevada. They lose
to Virginia but they are better than Utah even though Utah beat BYU and USU. The
Stanford win was better than the Texas win and all of this is silly. Play a
different schedule and things are also different for BYU. You can't compare
overall records when the schedules are nothing alike.
I prefer to look up head-to-head winners, games against good competition,
players drafted in NFL, and pro-bowlers. Lately Utah has dominated all of
these.Utah was 3-0 vs in State in 2013Utah currently has more
NFL players than the rest of the state combined.Utah beat a team that
finished #10 in the country (Stanford). No other in state team beat a team that
finished ranked. Utah has 3 NFL pro-bowlers that will be playing this
Sunday (Eric Weddle, Jordan Gross, and Alex Smith)The players on the
Utes now will make more noise in the NFL and proved to be better on the field
(head to head). They would have put up bigger numbers and more wins if they too
would have played cream puffs every week.
It is interesting to note that BYU, in 9 of the last 12 games, became a much
better team after playing the U. It's just that BYU caught the U at the
wrong time, right?
Wilson beat both of the other QBs and also beat a team that finished ranked in
the top 10. When was the last time a QB from this state beat a team that
FINISHED in the top 10?
@utahcountyute I completely agree except for Gavin Farr from SUU that dude is a
beast he will be playing on sundays
I didn't realize that SUU was the powerhouse that the Desnews staff makes
them out to be. The fact that they would take any player from SUU over players
from Utah or even byU at any position, is suspect. Let's dig
this list up in a couple years and see who is playing in the league. Keith
McGill, Jake Murphy, Poutasi and Trevor Reilly will all be