What's new: 'Tragedy and Truth: What Happened at Hawn's Mill' from the 'History of the Saints'

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  • DRay Roy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    One of the most important lessons of Haun's Mill is that when the Prophet speaks, the Saints would do well to listen...that is an internal lesson for LDS members that perhaps is a good reason for revisiting this Historically.

  • LiberalEastCoastMember Parkesburg, PA
    Jan. 8, 2014 9:36 a.m.

    You make a good point Joan as does procuradorfiscal. If I understand the point you're both making is we must study history in order to learn and profit from it.

    Its a valid point. Wondering out loud here. I wonder where the line between profiting from history verses wallowing in it is and whether we as Saints have, albeit unintentionally, spent more time wallowing than profiting.

  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    Jan. 7, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    Good grief - if governments, countries, individuals, families,organizations, do not value and record their history past and present then what a fine bunch of stymied uninformed, uneducated, ignorant and ungrateful people we become. One should seek to understand and evaluate the past and what value it contributes today. How does ignoring and blotting out the past help anyone seeking education, knowledge and understanding?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 3:42 p.m.

    Re: "Re: ". . . those of us who call ourselves Saints, ought to . . . completely forgiv[e] and reconcil[e] with those who wronged us . . . ."


    Though no one alive 150 years ago has wronged me. You and I have nothing to forgive them for. Only those wronging us today.

    But that doesn't mean we can't learn from the past, and apply that experience to conditions today. A mobocrat is a mobocrat, a terrorist a terrorist. Then and now. Anyone suggesting mobocrats or terrorists are freedom fighters, or who excuses their acts, is just wrong.

    There can be no excuse for murder, regardless of the perp's politics. Anyone fomenting hate needs to be opposed, NOT "understood" or excused.

    No one, no matter how badly their thoughts become contorted with political correctness, should equate prinipled, well-reasoned opposition to evil, and Orwellian thoughtcrime.

  • LiberalEastCoastMember Parkesburg, PA
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:55 a.m.

    In my humble opinion procuradorfiscal we haven't moved on. I know I haven't totally and the fact that you use the derogatory "Mobocrats" name to describe the perpetrators indicates you haven't either. I'm not talking about holding their ancestors accountable for the transgressions of their fathers. rather I'm suggesting we reconcile with the past, acknowledge mistakes (on both sides) and move on.

    An as to whether or what groups are or are not cultivating a sense of victimization, my experience is that those who are quickest to accuse anyone or any group of an offense where there is none, are guilty of the offense themselves. I'm not saying that is the case here. I don't know you so to make such a charge would be inappropriate.

    I know this much we, those of us who call ourselves Saints, ought to be held to a higher standard of living including first completely forgiving and reconciling with those who wronged us, especially when those wrongs were ten generations ago and two, casting the mote out of our own eye.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    I can't understand why over 200 guys would get together and decide to go kill some people. I guess it doesn't matter who wins or loses but who wright the story.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    Re: "Given that incidents like HM happened over 150 years ago I say its times we Mormons consider following the example of our Amish brothers and sisters."

    Oh, I think we have moved on. I know of no one in the Church that harbors personal hard feelings against the Missouri mobocrats. We don't know their names. We don't unfairly blame their deeds on descendents. We don't demand apologies, return of properties, or reparations.

    But, it's clear that some of the same political conditions that led mobs to massacre our ancestors, are boiling and bubbling, just below the surface, here and now.

    Liberals, atheists, secularists, LGBT activists, radical environmentalists, academics, even certain Christian sects, are cultivating, nurturing, and amplifying a false sense of victimization amongst their adherents that is eerily similar to that created by 19th-century Missouri mobocrats.

    We need to be constantly on guard against such tactics. First and foremost, we need to heed the advice of our leaders to win hearts with true Christian love. But, sad experience also teaches there is no substitute for pursuing our rights against those who won't respect them.

  • LiberalEastCoastMember Parkesburg, PA
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    What happened at Hawn's Mill, while tragic, is so yesterday. Those who were abused and suffered, even died at Hawn's Mill have been so thoroughly memorialized, all another book or movie will do is further exacerbate the anger and resentment that should have been buried by the Saints long ago. Why call us "Saints" if we are unwilling or, in this case unable, to forgive and move on.

    I doubt the Amish will be writing any books or memorizing what happened to their daughters just five miles from my house in Pennsylvania 8 years ago. They forgave the perpetrator who killed five and injured another five children and his family the same day of the incident and began the process of moving on with their lives immediately.

    Given that incidents like HM happened over 150 years ago I say its times we Mormons consider following the example of our Amish brothers and sisters.