Letter: Rescued scientists

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  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 3:47 p.m.

    "Seems like the natural climate cycle as swung into cooling mode"

    Then why was 2013 the 4th warmest year on record? (UAH satellite dataset, 1998, 2010, 2005 are the top 3). Why were the 2000s the warmest decade in the modern record? Here's the thing, despite the natural cycles being heavily skewed towards cooling (La Nina 4 of the past 5 years, the weakest solar cycle in a century) the most you've gotten out of it is "no warming or cooling". That's a sign that there's some positive forcing offsetting the cooling we'd expect from natural influences alone.

    "4) The arctic ice that the AGW crowd said would be gone by 2013 has grown "

    The IPCC projected the mid to late 21st century as when the Arctic sea ice would be effectively gone.

    "7) The Polar Vortex hitting our nation."

    All that sentence says is that there was a deep trough in the jet stream...

    "Scientists are now concerned the lack of sun spot activity means we're going to a cooling phase"

    And yet we're not cooling, perhaps there's a positive forcing somewhere keeping things warm...

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    17 years no warming, now the coldest temps recorded in decades back East, and the trip to see the melting of all the ice ends up stuck in the ice, with their would be rescuers.

    Seems like the natural climate cycle as swung into cooling mode, you know the cycle they told you about in school 30 years ago.

    But there is more money to be made in telling people that it is man's fault, so that is what our politicians tell our scientists to tell our schools to teach.

    Solar companies are winning big, at the moment. Next it will be fuels that warm the whole earth to stay off the 'man-made ice-age'.

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 2:57 p.m.

    Allisdair said:

    "The ships are stuck in sea ice and it is only a problem because of wind conditions. In a few days the winds will change and the sea ice will break up again."

    Oh, so now it's the winds fault? Umm, sure thing, whatever you say.

    The entire premise of AGW, since the Kyoto Protocol, has been fraudulent.

    Consider: 1) The arctic ice sheet has grown by nearly 60% in 2013, 2) Leaked documents from Fifth Assessment Report of the UN IPCC have overestimated warming on their climate models, and have shown NO WARMING for the past 16 years, 3) The monster storms and hurricanes that we were warned about never came to fruition, 4) The arctic ice that the AGW crowd said would be gone by 2013 has grown (See No. 1), 5) Top AGW "scientists" were shown to have manipulated their data supposedly confirming AGW was taking place, 6) Scientists are now concerned the lack of sun spot activity means we're going to a cooling phase, and 7) The Polar Vortex hitting our nation.

    The “science” behind AGW has been found wanting.

  • Allisdair Thornbury, Vic
    Jan. 5, 2014 10:42 a.m.

    The ships are stuck in sea ice and it is only a problem because of wind conditions. In a few days the winds will change and the sea ice will break up again. Mean while Antarctica is still melting overall. Australia's weather bureau just announced it has has the hottest year on record and 2014 is already heading the same way with droughts, hurricanes and wild fires.

  • Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 12:19 a.m.

    Well, I sure hope for all our sakes, that all the Fox News believers and Deseret News readers are right, and all the climate scientists are wrong.

    Maybe folks don't really need a high-falutin-sciency degree to know how climate science works.

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Jan. 4, 2014 3:41 p.m.

    @Marcia Whitaker

    Excellent observations! No matter where this story is being reported on the internet, those commenting are also finding the “delicious irony of it all.”

    As you point out, the media and other Leftists always seem to conveniently forget to mention that those on this ship were global warming scientists out to prove that arctic ice was declining. Oops!

    Once again the reality deniers are out using their famous, “weather is not climate” mantra. I guess they didn’t hear that leaked documents from the IPCC indicated that their models overestimated warming, and that there indeed has been NO WARMING for the past 16 years! Oops! This sounds like climate to me. Seems all those cataclysmic hurricanes the reality deniers were warning about also didn’t pan out. Oops!

    In order to push the garbage and myth of AGW, the Left has had to outright lie and misrepresent their own data. Professor Michael Mann from the U of P and the “scientists” at the University of East Anglia were cooking their data to get their desired results attempting to show AGW. Dictator Obama needs the myth of AGW so he can implement the economy crushing Cap and Trade. Easy Peasy!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 4, 2014 5:47 a.m.

    Yes, that darned ice! That ice that isn't supposed to be there! That ice that is so thick and massive it trapped the ship and that ice that is so thick and massive it kept any rescue ice breaker ships from reaching it! Now what do global warming geeks do? They can say the ice isn't relevant, it has no meaning. Its fake ice and the trapped ship isn't real! We can say the ice doesn't really matter, global warming is melting the ice anyway in spite of more ice, the ice is actually melting. Which is exactly what some of you posters on here have eluded. Dang that ice! Dang reality anyway!

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 10:54 p.m.

    And exactly why are we afraid of CO2 since all trees and plants convert it to oxygen. The planet's average temperature has risen less than a degree in almost twenty years, what does that tell us. Absolutely nothing except that we haven't got any warmer for a while.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:47 p.m.

    to 2 bits: The Arctic and the Antarctic are not the same place. In fact they are on opposite ends of the planet.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:46 p.m.

    You would think the dnews would consider printing some data and research showing that the climate is getting warmer. It may put an end to such inane letters like this.
    But no, they have no desire for truth.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 6:37 p.m.

    I love the utah approach. If it didn't happen in my back yard today, it's not happening at all.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 3:51 p.m.

    When I was in elementary school they taught us that we would be dead from over-population by now. Later on it was that all livable space was going to taken up by landfill (mostly paper diapers). Then it was something else. It's always something.

    And yet... we are still here. So I guess we have adapted.

    I remember the projections of how many people per square foot there would be in the year 2000... It was something very scary, like each person would have 6 square feet to exist in. And yet... when I fly across America today, most of the time you can't even see a human habitation. Just mountains, and deserts, and forests and lakes and prairies, etc. Some cities... but they are tiny compared to the amount of forest and uninhibited land.

    That taught me not to be super concerned about the doomsday fad of the day. Kinda the crying wolf affect I guess. It will probably bite me someday, but so far none of them have come true.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 3, 2014 2:59 p.m.

    To "Schnee" actually the models do a poor job of predicting future temperature increases. The past 16 years are a perfect example.

    Why trust a model that has proven itself wrong, that is the question. A broken clock is still correct 2 times a day, but I wouldn't use it just because it gets something right on occasion.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 2:45 p.m.

    I might have a bit less skepticism about all the "global warming" theorists if I didn't know that they are targeting my wallet. They want to impose carbon taxes and funnel all that money to projects under their control. It is a power grab, pure and simple.

    Does anyone really believe that Al Gore gives a hoot about the environment? He cares about his money. When he and other liberals start getting rid of their big houses, limos, private planes, and yachts and giving their own money to fix the problem then I will start taking them more seriously.

    Let me know when Harrison Ford sells one of his private jets and gives all the money to restore the rain forest. Then I will know he is serious about the message he is trying to send.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 2:43 p.m.

    A single comet and it all resets. But in a truly evolutionary and non religious point, why do we think our progeny rate more than the cockroach under the porch. We and our progeny are but a mere spec on the time line of the earth. To say that man is more important than all other evolutionary life is like the scientists of old who thought the universe revolved around the earth.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 2:37 p.m.

    "There is not a valid model for global warming, so why do you still cling to the results of a bad model?"

    Why are you ignoring the decades of actual observations we have? The models aren't perfect but they do a fairly good job.

    "Al Gore said scientists predict the Arctic ice would be completely gone by 2014."

    The IPCC projected mid to late 21st century so most scientists disagreed with that idea.

    "When I was in elementary school in the 1960's we were told scientists were saying we were heading for another ice age. Is is possible that the carbon dioxide we are putting into the air is keeping us from that? "

    Back in the 50s and 60s we had a large increase of aerosols in the atmosphere which have a cooling effect and that stalled the warming from CO2 and other greenhouse gases. It's the aerosols that led to the basis of fears of cooling but also were pollutants so we got those cleaned up and then we started warming up again since the GHGs and aerosols kinda were balancing each other out. China, India and others are increasing aerosols lately though...

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 3, 2014 1:14 p.m.


    Just to be clear, the history is that when there are quick (decades or even centuries vs. millenia) adaptation does not keep up. Many of the species die off and then, in a period of slow recovery, the remainder (the most adapted to the new reality) repopulate.

    Not a good plan given none of us know how we or our progeny will score on the CO2 adaptation scorecard. Perhaps we should think of something that does not resemble desolation.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 1:08 p.m.

    When I was in elementary school in the 1960's we were told scientists were saying we were heading for another ice age. Is is possible that the carbon dioxide we are putting into the air is keeping us from that? This makes sense because in the past 15 years carbon dioxide has increased but the earth hasn't become any warmer. The trend towards cooling is being balanced by the warming effect of the carbon dioxide, or so it would seem.

    If this is the case, we shouldn't decrease our carbon output for several thousand years at least, until the ice age cycle comes to an end. We are lucky this time around we have a defense, Last time, North America was covered by thousands of feet of ice.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:59 p.m.

    The trend over the past 15 + years is no warming.

    Is this enough weather to count as climate?

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:55 p.m.

    Onion Daze

    Gee, in my day I was sure I was told it was around 19 degrees. I guess my memory is going or the Earth is tilting more. Either way, thanks for the correction. I just hope it stays around 23 degrees, and does not go for 45. Now THAT could cause global warming, or cooling, depending upon which part of the planet one is on.


    So yes perhaps we are sucking in more CO2 than in the past. Maybe it is a good thing in the long run. Maybe planet Earth is going to ask of its lifeforms to adapt to a more dense CO2 environment in the future. Maybe it will help prepare the human body in generations to come to better adapt to a very high CO2 planet like Mars, should we ever really need to go there to teraform the place and live. Who knows?, but change and adaptation seems to have been the order of life on Earth for eons. We are just part of it.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    Global warming will have many consequences, among them wilder fluctuations in the weather as the atmosphere becomes more energetic. The widening of the jet stream is already producing more and more catastrophic results. These things are undeniably happening as a result of a quick trend up in global temperature.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    Back in the early hay-day of the global warming hysteria... Al Gore said scientists predict the Arctic ice would be completely gone by 2014... Maybe they were just going down to check for themselves to see if it was gone.

    It's summer in the Southern Hemisphere now... so maybe they thought the ice would be getting thinner instead of getting thicker.

    It will be interesting to see what their conclusions are when they get back. Probably that man really IS causing global warming (just not where they were).

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:22 p.m.

    This "irony" was also reported by Faux News. The commander of the ship said it was warmer waters which broke up a large iceberg and winds pushed the pieces up against the ship. There is no irony here, but there is further evidence.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:04 p.m.

    Ok here is the challenge to all of the Climate Change Alarmists.

    The NOAA stated that if we ever had 15 years or more with no statistically significant warming, that would mean that the models are wrong. We are now going on to 16 to 19 years (depending on the dataset) with no warming.

    There is not a valid model for global warming, so why do you still cling to the results of a bad model?

    Would you fly on an airplane that was known to have major defects? Would you drive a car full of kids knowing that it was faulty?

    Why trust theories based on something that is wrong?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 3, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    From Fox News (AKA “fair and balanced”):

    "We're stuck in our own experiment," the Australasian Antarctic Expedition said in a statement Monday. “We came to Antarctica to study how one of the biggest icebergs in the world has altered the system by trapping ice. We ... are now ourselves trapped by ice surrounding our ship.”

    So, apparently they knew about the recent phenomena. Darn scientists . . .

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 11:11 a.m.

    If one really did more that headline read, they would realize that Antarctica is larger than the U.S. and that the ice is melting on one side while thickening on the other. Moral of the story, don't scoff since no one here is a climate scientist and most do nothing but skim the facts. Since we are all fools maybe we should act as though the earth is important to us rather than arguing over our ignorance. After all isn't that what God is, the ultimate scientist?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 10:35 a.m.

    Again the question begs an answer, what is the right temperature for the earth? Why would a warmer temperature caused by AGW or just plain earth cycle warming be bad? Climatic scientists have said the hurricane in New Jersey and New York was not caused by global warming.

    Temperatures in the ninth century B.C. were warmer than they are now. Temperatures have gone up and down since the earth was formed. If you say because of human life that would be lost, then you are basing your belief on religious bias that man is above evolution and evolution has ended. If you say we must control the temperature to prevent the loss of species, then again you support the argument there is no evolution. Millions of species have been lost from the earth from its first creation. If you argue we have a responsibility to take care of the earth, for who, a god that you say has no power to intervene? As a member of the international climate group said, global warming carbon taxes are for the redistribution of wealth. Of course we all know taxes rarely get to those that need them.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    procuradorfiscal said: It's amazing that real scientists let "climate scientists" get away with torqueing their theories. models, and predictions to now assert that validity of their global warming alarmism is proven by widespread global cooling.

    Sorry but glenn, rush and gang are not "real scientists" and spin from fox in no way validates your opinion.

    What's amazing is how ideals interfere with critical thinking, perhaps that is why they fear common core, the critical thinking part, because makes it harder to listen to those radio jokers and actually believe them.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    Re: ". . . 100 million Americans are dealing with record lows, record snowfall and freezing rain. These are all phenomena that have been predicted for decades by climate scientists."

    Yeah, yeah. After predicting for decades that we would all be dead of heat frustration by now.

    It's amazing that real scientists let "climate scientists" get away with torqueing their theories. models, and predictions to now assert that validity of their global warming alarmism is proven by widespread global cooling.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    Around 40 years for the satellite datasets, 100+ years for the observational ones.

    We know that the Earth's tilt and other similar astronomical cycles are on the order of 10,000, 40,000, and 100,000 year cycles, too long to show what we're seeing over 100 years. Likewise CO2 does cycle but over the past half a million years it's gone back and forth from around 200 to 300ppm and that also is a cycle over tens of thousands of years. We're at 400ppm and did that in 200 years.

    It's a little difficulty to reject global warming when we are just had a (presumably, since it's 3rd or 4th for Jan-Nov) a top 5 warmest year on record. I do wonder why you'd use one satellite observation (at a location noted by others that has next to no historical record so it may have been colder before and we just didn't know of it) and reject the rest of the dataset.

  • Lew Scannon Provo, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    Come on, all you gullible liberals, can't you see that it's all a giant conspiracy. This global warming thing is actually caused by Obamacare. And so is Common Core, and the national debt, and same-sex marriage, and mass shootings. If we just repeal Obamacare, all these evils will go away.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    The willful ignorance and gullibility expressed by this letter is appalling.

    Yes, ships can get stuck in the ice in antarctic waters. That has zero to do with global warming.

    It's snowing hard back east. That's because this is January. This phenomenon is called "winter."

    Rightwing talking heads yukking it up about "so much for global warming!" are just making fools of themselves and their viewers.

    Warming oceans pump more energy into the atmosphere, creating more extreme weather. That's a fact.

    Meanwhile, Australia is undergoing yet another record hot summer season, glaciers continue to retreat globally, the arctic ice pack is rapidly shrinking, and arctic permafrost is thawing. That's also a fact.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 9:06 a.m.

    Just a simple correction, the record temperature recorded in the Antarctic was in August of last year. It was reported one month ago. But the letter writer is commenting on the irony of a ship investigating global warming gets stuck in ice during the warmest period in the Antarctic. More irony, the ice breaker Snow Dragon from China is also stuck in the ice. The Australian ice breaker has been ordered to standby for rescue of the Snow Dragon. In the seventies scientists warned that global cooling would result in extreme weather. Now scientists warn global warming will result in extreme weather. It appears to me extreme weather is not based on global climate. And as all the AGW advocates point out extreme cold does not equate with cooling climate. The same argument applies extreme hot temperatures in localized climates does not equate to global warming. Utah's own climate history was warmer and drier than it now is. Just once would someone tell us the ideal global temperature and why it should have more relevance than any other period in the history of the planet?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:56 a.m.

    Seeing how these "scientists" (AKA "tourists") were dressed, their appearance and age... I wondered if they were global warming groupies.

    I suspect they will get back and write all about their dramatic experiences in the rapidly melting ice in the Antarctic.

    Somehow they will find a way to make this experience only CONFIRM their suspicions and predictions of Global Warming. That's the way it always works. No matter what happens... it's evidence of Global Warming to them.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    Facts certainly do get in the way when an agenda is to be religiously held up. I would like to get some real facts but every agency that puts up numbers does so to further their agenda, there is no independent science on this issue because there is money to be made.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Last year Australia had their hottest summer ever, this year they are breaking all the high temp records from last year. Does that prove global warming? No, it doesn't. The weather in any one part of the world is influenced by many different factors. Global warming is average temperatures across the globe.

    @Mountanmann: That lowest temperature ever recorded was in a location with no weather station. It was recorded by satellite in an area that has rarely been observed. Scientist have said it could well have been that cold or colder before. We don't know, because we virtually never check there.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    More proof of the war on science by conservatives, facts mean nothing, businesses are the true prophets of science, the same ones who brought you healthy cigarettes, a hole in the ozone, and caught the rivers on fire.

    "We are hopelessly unable to do anything" is a cop out to pass the buck and bury your head in the sand.

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:12 a.m.

    Correction for "happy2bhere"

    It is 23.5 degrees. Not "Our 19 degree tilt,..."

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 3, 2014 8:03 a.m.

    I did not realize that it was supposed to be so sunning and nice in ANTARTICA in the "summer"?
    I guess it's only suppose to get cold and snow there in the "winter".

    Too this naïve letter writer, [and those who "think" likewise --
    it "snows" and "freezes" during the summer on Mars as well.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 3, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    Nothing will ever convince some people that global warming is a hoax. For them they are the repositories of "facts" and all others are just opinionated. For example, it must only be some people's opinion that the coldest temperature EVER recorded on earth occurred just last month in the Antarctica; -135.8 degrees F! But its just an opinion, right? After all, what's conflicting science to them but opinions!

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 7:44 a.m.


    Jan to Nov 2013. The 4th warmest on record. And how long has that record been kept?

    That is the myopic problem with much Earth science. Earth is billions of years old. We know that the planet has gone through periods much warmer and much colder than any "record" has shown. We also know that the Earth adjusts to extremes. That is the wonderful part of the Goldilocks location of our unique planet in this solar system. Our 19 degree tilt, giving the whole Earth an equal part of seasonal change as it revolves around the sun. The increases or decreases in natural gasses of the atmosphere when needed. The natural cleaning up of pollution, whether man made or natural, like volcanos. Earth takes care of itself naturally, and has done so for billions of years. It is humanity who will need to change to accomodate Earth rather than humanity believing it can control the Earth environment. So the Earth warms a little. So the oceans rise a little. So, Malibu beachfront property is moved back a few feet. We will adapt because we have no choice and can't do anything to stop it anyway.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 7:23 a.m.

    And if the group of scientists were to have stumbled off a cliff would it have proven the world is actually flat and not round?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 7:02 a.m.


    Climate change = more extreme weather events. Some places will experience more extreme snow in winter, others will experience less snow. Some will be hotter in the summer, others may be cooler. Local weather is simply that: Local weather. You didn't address the gradual warming being experienced overall throughout the entire planet.

    Please go watch the documentary "Chasing Ice". If that doesn't remove the blinders from your eyes, then I doubt anything will.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 6:43 a.m.

    Yes, ironic. Like the irony of so many of the TV news outlets who are clearly leftward leaning and liberal (those are the tolerant, open-minded ones) who are normally the first to point out such ironies because of the arresting interest factor that makes such tidbits "good TV", but who, in this case, neglected it completely.

    I wonder if any of them will ever comment on these ironies upon ironies?

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 6:10 a.m.

    In other news 100 million Americans are dealing with record lows, record snowfall and freezing rain. These are all phenomena that have been predicted for decades by climate scientists. Get used to extreme weather! Too bad all the naysayers aren't the only ones effected.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 3, 2014 5:51 a.m.

    Another confused poster who confuses weather with climate.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:54 a.m.

    OK, so the fact they have become stuck in the ice invalidates the global warming hypothesis? The Antarctic is cold. So's the Arctic. But the Greenland ice sheet is melting. Churchill on Hudsons Bay will soon be a year-round port. The permafrost of Alaska is thawing out. It appears a couple of ships getting stuck in the Antarctic doesn't invalidate the global warming thesis.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2014 12:36 a.m.

    Antarctica is still cold, even in the austral summer. You might find this amusing/ironic but the reality is the UAH satellite dataset put Jan-Nov 2013 as the 4th warmest Jan-Nov on record. The NOAA and NASA datasets have Jan-Nov 2013 3rd warmest. (December numbers will be out for UAH probably on Monday and in a week or two for NOAA and NASA, so that's why I used Jan-Nov).