Pagan - I attempted to respond earlier, but my comment didn't pass through
the DesNews censor.This is a good place for info:www.stateoftheair.org Go to the City Rankings tab and click Most polluted
cities. There you will see three lists, By Ozone, By Particulate, and by
Short-Term Particulate. California cities rank high in all three categories.
Unfortunately, SLC does make the top 10 (#6) for short term particle, but that
was my point in the first place. SLC has an air pollution problem, always has.
But California cities are still battling the problem and over the course of the
year, exceed pollution levels in SLC.As for quoting newspaper
articles for references, Remember, Dewey beats Truman was also a newspaper
"Clear air advocates holding caroling event at Library Square"How did they get to the event? My bet is they drove their air-polluting
vehicles there.If Utah air so bad, I suggest moving to, say,
Louisiana, Kansas, or some other mid-western state where strong winds blow the
pollution away... and most of the houses with it.
'This doesn't excuse us from doing something about it, but it does
demonstrate that California has not "solved" their air pollution
problems as it so widely discussed on these boards.' So, 1) You
cannot cite any sources to support this claim. As such, I do not need to take
it as a factual statement. 2) Is it 'ok' for Utah to have
bad air… Because Utahns fabricate what happens in
California. I'm sure we can all take solace in that
when… *'Study says coal burning in Utah kills 202 a
year' - AP - Published by DSNews – 10/19/10 *Studies link
air pollution to increased risk of strokes and dementia’ – by Amy
Joi O’Donoghue – Deseret news – 02/15/12
PaganIt is true there are a handful of days each year where
particulate levels in Salt Lake City are the highest recorded in the nation.
That does not mean Salt Lake City has the worst air quality in the nation, any
more than a few days with the highest recorded precipitation total in the nation
means that Salt Lake City has America's wettest climate.I would
suggest you Google "EPA air compare" and examine the data for yourself.
In 2012, Salt Lake County recorded 11 days where air pollution levels exceeded
EPA limits. In 2012, Los Angeles County recorded 105 days where air pollution
levels exceeded EPA limits. I think most mathematicians would agree 105 is
significantly more than 11.Finally, anyone who thinks Salt
Lake's air quality is even comparable to China's is sorely
misinformed. In the past 24 hours, the highest PM 2.5 level in Salt Lake City
has been 62.7. In Beijing it was 126, in Guangzhou it was 178, and in Shenyang
it was 460 -- a level which hasn't been recorded here in decades, if ever.
And those levels persist for weeks there, not just a few days.
'There have been days and there will be days where the air quality was
worse in Utah than in any other place in the US, but over the course of the
year, California has the 8 of the top 10, and the top 7 cities for worst air
pollution.' You can have a response…. but
until you can provide some sources to support your claims this will be more
'Iraq has WMD' talk. Sorry.
Response to PaganThere have been days and there will be days where
the air quality was worse in Utah than in any other place in the US, but over
the course of the year, California has the 8 of the top 10, and the top 7 cities
for worst air pollution. This doesn't excuse us from doing
something about it, but it does demonstrate that California has not
"solved" their air pollution problems as it so widely discussed on these
'I hope the protesters aren't as clue-free as the article makes them
out to be.' As much as people who resort to
name-calling… instead of presenting opinion, dressed up as
'There's no comparison: Salt Lake City's overall air quality is
much better than LA's.' *'Northern Utah's air is
the worst in the nation' - KSL - 01/11/10 'SALT LAKE CITY --
Northern Utah currently boasts the worst air in the nation, and it's not
even a close margin.' - article The difference between LA and
SLC is that… LA, actually did something about their dirty
air. Utah, officially has the worst air quality in the nation. Often
times compared to the filthy air quality in China. China. The air quality in Utah 1) Detracts from tourism and 2) Job creation. I work for a major call center. A national company. 3,000 employees. At
the last company wide meeting the leadership asked for questions. When no one
replied he prodded us by saying… 'I'm not here for
the air people.' 3,000 FT jobs would be gone from Utah, if this
man decided the air was poor enough. I have run the numbers, that is
equivalent to a town in Utah. LA factually did something about their
air. Putting carbon taxes, emission caps, etc. The difference in
Utah? Leadership in Utah, does nothing.
Thinkin' Man is exactly right.Back when we burned coal to heat our
homes the snow would be blackened by soot during an inversion.Our cars are
cleaner than ever. Our appliances are more efficient.In fact, without the
imposed growth in population we'd be cleaner than ever.So, are you
against children or immigrants and illegal aliens?
I hope the protesters aren't as clue-free as the article makes them out to
be. Addressing just the partial lyrics to their modified carol:1.
CO2 isn't a pollutant. You can't see it, smell it, or taste it. It
doesn't contribute to inversions or bad air. If anything, atmosphere CO2
works against inversions, although the effect on temperature is so minuscule as
to be undetectable.2. If large vehicles are banned, I suppose that
means large families will have to travel in multiple vehicles. Is that better?
Smaller, lighter vehicles fare poorly in crashes. Is that better?3.
Are they suggesting we should all just stay home? Or perhaps just those wishing
to visit family should not do so, as traveling to sing absurd carols to protest
mother nature and demand that Governor Hebert and the legislature "do
something" is apparently the only sufficiently worthy cause for driving
downtown.I agree with other commenters - we would be better served
if we worked together to find solutions rather than spending time and energy
demanding that somebody else do something about it with somebody else's
I get that inversions have always been with us and that solutions tried or
planned carry a disappointing ROI. (3 steps forward, 2 steps back)Lets put the glut of locally educated engineers to work on some off-the-wall
ideas.If money was no object, is generating enough wind or a change in air
pressure to encourage the bad air along remotely possible? Probably not but what
would it take?Are there winter wind patterns trying to get in the
valley or pressure pushing out that we could enable by removing an obstruction
in the form of the right hill, ridge or even mountain?We know that
smoke from local brush fires can cause some crazy weather. What could a heck of
a lot of steam do? Would bumping the humidity of our dry winter air by 10 or 15
percent affect a change in air pressure or behavior? Is there an
element we could introduce into the air that causes smog to behave
differently?Lets give the Aggies a chance to prove that all of those
NASA projects have a more practical benefit than training the next generation of
BYU Track Star:If you only knew just how bad Los Angeles' air
was compared to Salt Lake's there would be no hesitation on your part to
retire here.According to data provided by the EPA at their
AirCompare website, Salt Lake County averages about 21 days where the ambient
air quality is rated "unhealthy" by the EPA. That's about two
weeks on average during the winter, and one week on average during the
summer.Compare that to Los Angeles County, which on average has 90
days where the ambient air quality is rated as "unhealthy" by the EPA,
including several days where it is rated as "very unhealthy".
Basically, spending the summer in LA will expose you to unhealthy levels of air
pollution almost every single day from Memorial Day to Labor Day.There's no comparison: Salt Lake City's overall air quality is much
better than LA's.
It's easy to be a "clean air advocate." It's hard to come up
with any solutions that will work. So many seem to think inversions
are new in Utah, or are worse than in the past, or that they are all the fault
of industry and vehicles. I've got news for you. The pioneers suffered
bad air during inversions in the 1800's. Air pollution in the 1970's
in Salt Lake was worse than today. No amount of clever songs or berating
family-sized vehicles and the engines of the economy will stop inversions from
trapping air in the closed Utah valleys -- there's no changing the odd
combination of weather and geography that creates this plague. It will never go
away, it will only be a bit less after all we can do.And by the way,
Utahns have among the best health and longest lives of anyone in the U.S. If
inversions were as bad as people quoted in the article claim, that could not be
My Wife who has Family in the SL Valley tells me retiring to Utah in 10-15 years
would help my California retirement dollars go alot further there as opposed to
SoCali. My concern is the Winter Air Quality in the Valleys is abysmal and will
only get worse. Will Utah's Air quality worsen, Improve or, stay about the
same? It would be ironic if COPD in the future be the leading cause of death of
Aging Baby boomers, desspite statistically fewer people of the cohort smoking?