@ A ScientistI think I know you well enough to know your tongue was
planted firmly in your cheek when you raised your "ethical" objection to
folks helping other move. It made me smile.That said, I will think
twice before I open the door for anyone on my next trip to Walmart.
Wouldn't want to supplant the need for them to hire a doorman. :-)Regards.
There was a time when I thought I would never need any help from the Church or
it's members.Then came an operation and orders to lift nothing
heavier than 10 pounds. When I came home from church that Sunday, there was 4
inches of snow and still falling. I sort of wondered how it was going to get
shoveled before the 24 hour period our city requires snow clear sidewalks by.As the snow stopped near dark, I looked out to see one of the Elder's
Quorum councilors hard at work clearing my walks.Now 20 years later, I
find the missionaries when grass or snow requires physical labor. In my younger
days, I did this kind of thing for members and neighbors. Now that I am over
70, with too many physical problems I allow others to reap the benefits of
service to others.
@ A ScientistSeems you are bothered by people trying to find a way
to help. I think it's rather impossible to know others' motives or
whether it's a pretext for something. Rather than being a cynic, just try
it some time. It's not easy, and yes, sometimes you will come off as
insincere, but if we all stayed in our own little sphere, this world would be
worse off. That goes for volunteers of all kinds - religious and otherwise. And is there really an "ethics" question in helping someone
move? Most people I know who can afford moving help do pay for it, and those who
can't, appreciate having some free help. Better than no help at all...Just stick with the applied sciences and leave the social science to
Lowering the age for young men, drives up the total percentage of young men who
go as well. The reality is that between graduating from high school and waiting
until 19, an unfortunate number of young men got sidetracted from their stated
desire to serve. These distractions include: making money and feeling that
they can't quit their job now because there won't be another
opportunity like it; falling in love and not wanting the young lady to have a
chance to find another while he is away; school; friends.Lowering
the age removes many of these temptations. Unfortunately, it also means that
many will never experience saving for a mission because they didn't /
couldn't work during high school and now mom and dad are paying for the
mission. For some, they will never realize the blessing that came from paying
their own way. This is the only issue I have with the age change.
But the positives outweigh these negatives. Besides many never did earn money
for their own mission.
@maclouie"It's been more than a year since the age was lowered.
How long do you think until the "blip" effect goes away?"At minimum 18 months for women and 24 months for men since that's how
long the "blip" people are on a mission. Since they didn't start
their missions day 1 when the announcement was made lowering the ages I'd
be inclined to say that from 18 to 30 months for women and 24-36 months for men
post-announcement is when the levels should settle down to whatever they will be
going forward. That way you have filtered out anyone who started a mission the
first 12 months after the age change announcement.I would suspect
that the levels at that point would be somewhat higher than they were before the
age change, just not as high as they are now. I am not going to hazard any more
specific a guess than that.
LilalipsThe "wall" of disingenuousness is built by a Church
full of people who will not befriend a person unless they are assigned, or as a
pretext for "selling" their religion.And I am ethically
opposed to "volunteers" competing with people who need to earn a living
helping people move.
Don't get too excited. The number of missionaries will drop back to 50,000
in a year. There's only double now because people who waited until 19 or
21 went, plus new ones who didn't have to wait.
"God is hastening his work.... He's speeding it up. We have a sense
that there's an urgency about spreading the message of the gospel across
the world."______________________________If only we could
see the day when all the one true religions of the world devoted the energy they
now exert talking down to their fellow man to listening to others to better
TimBehrendI used to believe in the "blip" effect. It's
been more than a year since the age was lowered. How long do you think until the
"blip" effect goes away? I dont think it will but interested in what
your crystal ball says.
Some expect a statistical blip with the age change. However, Des News has
already reported the higher number of sister missionaries due to the age change
that would not have gone on a mission. I think the expected number was from 30%
to 52% sister missionaries.
BrentBot "My experience in Latin America is members think it is culturally
unacceptable to visit members in their homes."Where is that? I
have worked in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Dominican
Republic, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, and Bahamas. I have not had that cultural
The statistic I would love to hear is what percentage of perspective
missionaries are now serving compared to the previous 20-30 years. Willing to be
that even with the higher standards expected now compared to then, the
percentage serving now is still higher than before.
Brother Allen gave two explanations for declining convert baptisms per
missionary: an increased focus on convert retention and increasing secularism.
I believe there is at least a third reason, an aging world caused by declining
birth rates. In the past, the typical convert was young. There are simply
fewer young people.
I am really exicted to hear that the lds missionaries prepared for serving
mission, where ever in the world. Has incereased over the last one to two
years.My human mind thinks are these younger men and women ready for a
church mission. What are their reasons for serving a mission!I hope and pray
church headquarters and Mtc Provo put stragties and plans for these young men
and women who serve missions for the church. A recent article from the
Dersert news,stated some returned missionaries , felt a sense of failure when
coming of their Lds missions. Why, did the returned missionaries feel this
way?Reference to Missionaries doing member work and not so much baptism
work. It makes sense to retain your membership in any church or business! This
is another area Lds missionaries could be developing. Member development and
church skills. I keep praying for the Lds missionaries of the world, that
the Lds church will guide these men and women in the Lords work.
No mention of the statistical blip that the number of missionaries currently
represents because of the lowering of age of eligibility with immediate effect
in October 2012. Once the wave of younger volunteers supplementing their older
peers passes there will no longer be double ranks and numbers will settle down
again. I wonder if when numbers settle back down in the 60K range if Steve Allen
of the Missionary Department will be quoted as saying, "God is no longer
hastening his work".
I certainly favor having more people unite with the true church of Christ.However, this word "hastening" really needs to be deep-sixed. It
seems to suggest that until recently the Lord had been dilly-dallying. When
Pres. Kimball talked of lengthening our stride, I think he really meant it. When
Pres. McKay said every member a missionary, he wasn't joking. Maybe instead of saying the Lord is hastening his work, we could say that the
Lord's Church has taken steps to increase the level of full-time missionary
service, which had declined rather significantly among 19-year-old males during
the past decade.
Fredisdead: We all have a responsibility, as do the Home Teachers,
to visit with and support our assigned families on a regular basis. Having said
that, you also need to contact your Home Teacher and/or your ward leaders
requesting that these visits take place. Sometimes individuals are struggling
spiritually and do not feel worthy of their assignment, but need to be assured
that you need them. Try it and I assure you it can work.
Unfortunately, Dixie Dan, when H.T. and/or V.T. slack off, the Lord will use the
missionaries to fill in the gap. We should all remember how the Savior
strengthened the weak and/or wayward saints (and sinners) as he showered His
love on all. Wish we could all follow His example and do likewise, especially in
these days of hastening the work, as it is often expressed. This gives one the
chance to sit up and take notice... and hopefully act.
I would never ask my ward members to do something I could do myself. Next time
I move, I'm supporting the local economy by hiring someone.
@a scientist,I remember when our new house under construction blew
down. The home teachers and others showed up and cleaned it up. We
couldn't have possibly done it ourselves. I'm so grateful they
"infiltrated" our home.
@Fred ... sorry to hear the WP Branch has deteriorated in that fashion. I was
baptized one week before entering the academy, and it was there that I learned
the necessity of 100% home teaching (and that not simply to visit, but rather to
buoy-up those one is blessed to serve). I'm incredibly thankful for the
home teachers I had throughout my time there, as well as for those I had the
privilege to serve. C'mon President Sparrow -- work to be done?!
A Scientist,You are lucky. If you needed to move, they would do a
fabulous job. We have moved several times around the country and the members
are always there to help us. They even set up my kids beds one time. It was
such a wonderful thing as I was a single mom and was so tired I could hardly see
straight. You are lucky that the members come, even with what you see as a fake
interest in your welfare. They are doing what they see as their duty to God,
not necessarily to you but it COULD benefit you if you would put down the wall
you have built up against them. How many communities would never even lift a
finger to care whether you were there or not? They are not perfect. But
neither are you. Instead of your wall, ask them about themselves. Try to get
to know them. You may be surprised to find that you might have something in
common and could even come to "like" the good people that they are
trying to be.
My experience in Latin America is members think it is culturally unacceptable to
visit members in their homes. However, when Latin Americans emigrate to the
United States, home and visiting teaching suddenly becomes acceptable.
This is intent versus outcome, Dixie Dan.
Forgive me, how in the world are they doing it ?
FREDISDEAD,Lucky you.I'm not even a member, but the
HTs and VTs infiltrate our home and annoy us with their superficial niceness and
trite "gospel message" on a regular basis. Although my wife is active
LDS and attends the Temple, even she acknowledges how much of a waste of time it
Don't know about where you are at Dan. But I have NOT had a home teacher
come regularly in 10+ years.At least the Elders and Sisters actually
VISIT people they have responsibility for.
If the full time missionaries are to active members, doesn't this overlap
with the V.T. and H.T.?
with that many missionaries china should open in the next year or so. After
china embraces the gospel north Korea, Cuba and other countries will embrace the
gospel shortly as well.