@ jarka-rus"How many NC's have the Utes won again?"Basketball 1All sports 20Next!!!
@bungalowName the last GREAT NBA star the Utes have produced, Bogut ???
bungalowHow many NC's have the Utes won again?
Hey Ute fans and Chris B, how far did U go last year in the NCAA tournament? LOL
Opps my mistake. Thank you for correcting me about the Jimmer team that did
destroy the Zags in the tournament. However, I think you missed the point that
the article is ready to crown the future BYU BBall team National Champs when
they have not even won the WCC conference. Again, try setting realistic goals
first by winning the WCC. Oh and you still have to go through the Zags to get
UteologyYou're obviously having a hard time understanding that
the NCAA tournament champion hasn't always been considered the defacto
national champion.Where in ESPN's list does it say anything
about Duke being the national champion in 1991, 1992, 2001, and 2010?You're simply assuming that NCAA champion = national champion.Today that's true. But in 1944, the NCAA was still the baby brother of
the NIT.The fact that the Utes turned down the NCAA, to play in the
1944 NIT, is proof that even the Utes considered the NCAA to be the 2nd rate
tournament of the day.
TrueBlueOrem, UTUteologyFail!ESPN only
lists NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORY, which Utah won in 1944.Final Fours,
Tournament Record, Championship Seasons, and Tournament Appearances all refer
specifically to the NCAA Tournament. The list says NOTHING about national
champions.--------------Really? Then please tell us in
your mind why Duke was not a national champion in 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010?DUKE NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORYFinal Fours 15Tournament
Record 99-33Championship Seasons 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010Tournament
Uteologyre: scott"I think we can both agree that
Utah's 1947 basketball championship is as impressive as your 1984 football
championship."Not even close.Utah's 1947 NIT
championship is about as impressive as BYU's 1951 NIT championship, maybe
slightly more impressive than BYU's 1966 NIT championship, though not
much.Bottom line:Utah's 1944 and 1947, and
BYU's 1951 and 1966 basketball championships, were tournament
championships, NOT, national championships.
It's laughable that Utah fans actually consider this a national
championship worth schedule:Utah's Complete 1944 Basketball
Schedule - if you search hard enough, you might actually be able to find a
couple of college teams in that mix.18th Replacement Wing W 48-24
SLCA.S.T.P. Company D W 51-21 SLCA.S.T.P. Company B W 76-24 SLCA.S.T.P. ERC W 71-17 SLCHill Field Fliers W 61-26 OgdenWeber W
63-25 OgdenWeber Navy W 60-25 OgdenKearns 2nd Air Force W 45-35
KearnsFort Douglas W 41-26 SLCWendover Bomber Quintet W 64-28
WendoverIdaho State W 54-43 SLCEcker Studio W 46-44 SLCColorado College W 48-34 Colorado SpringsFort Logan W 55-38 DenverFort Warren L 59-61 CheyenneKearns W 57-37 SLCSalt Lake Air Base L
39-54 SLCBushnell Hospital W 78-31 SLCIdaho State W 52-40
PocatelloDow Chemical L 36-46 SLCSalt Lake Air Base W 62-38 SLCSpin away Uteology.Was that Kearns HS or the Kearns 2nd Ward
Young Men?How tough, really, were the 1944 Ecker Studio
UteologyFail! ESPN only lists NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORY,
which Utah won in 1944.Final Fours, Tournament Record, Championship
Seasons, and Tournament Appearances all refer specifically to the NCAA
Tournament. The list says NOTHING about national champions.-----------btw, The Helms Athletic Foundation and The Heritage
Foundation are two entirely different organizations that have absolutely nothing
in common.A fan who actually knows something about the history of
college basketball would know that.
DuckhunterHighland, UT@uteologyNeither was a
national championship. Fail.-----------You might want to
go cry to ESPN, they disagree with you.UTAHChampionship
Seasons 1944BYU Championship Seasons 0
@TroyTownThe Helms Athletic Foundation, the only national
organization of the day in the business of recognizing college basketball
national champions, selected Army(15-0) as the 1944 National Champion and Holy
Cross(27-3) as the 1947 National Champion.----------Heritage Foundation "selected" Army as the National Championship?
Well the postseason tournament winners of both the NIT and NCCA disagree. And
so does ESPN, they don't recognize any Heritage Foundation champion:UTAH NCAA TOURNAMENT HISTORYFinal Fours 4Tournament
Record 35-30Championship Seasons 1944Tournament Appearances 27@scottI think we can both agree that Utah's 1947
basketball championship is as impressive as your 1984 football championship.
I guess the "real" national championship switched mysteriously from the
NIT to the NCAA tourney at some point between 1944 and 1947.Good one
ducky. Shouldn't you be in Tulsa?
@ekuteNo worries on the type-0...To your question
"what do you see in the crystal ball for BYU in the future?"...I see a team that is going to be extremely competitive at the elite level... A
starting line up of Four 4-star Recruits (all in the top 100), plus a bench full
of a battle scarred veterans and highly recruited players, plus more 4 star
recruits that Rose is able to snag over the next couple of years... Will they win a NC, Advance to the Elite 8 or Final 4? Who knows? I do think
they will have the talent to do it, but as we all know there are alot of
unpredictable moving parts come tournament time and the teams with the best
talent don't always win. I do believe that BYU will be a regular in the
field of 68 and a semi regular in the sweet 16. One advantage that
BYU will have over others is that their players will typically play more years
for their team whereas other high profile programs will be having to reload
every year as their players will head to the NBA...I also believe
BYU will continue to dominate the utes.
defibmanSyracuse, UTWe will hear about their playing for a NC
and playing in the final four, but how many times did they do that. BYU may not
have made that for a long time...------------Long time?
Try never pal.
Duckhunter,If you read my previous posts you will see that I'm
a fan of Coach Rose and try to make objective comments about Cougar basketball.
So it IS a sincere question to you cougar "fans".I agree with what
you just said, maybe an occasional sweet 16, not sure it will happen this year.
I previously said that it will take a Parker type player to get them to the
final 4. Not sure if Coach Rose and the program can attract such a player.As for vs The Runnin' Utes, Rose said on the radio last night that
the current agreement ends after next year and didn't sound to positive
about the future, so they only have 2 games left head to head. I have no doubt
that Utah will win both ;).
@ekute"What do you see in the crystal ball for byu?"I'll answer that although I know it isn't a sincere question,
just an attempt to get some more trolling material.I don't
know, no one does, it is all speculation. I think BYU will be an NCAA team just
about every year for the next 6-7 based on the talent they currently have and
what is coming in. Outside of that is anyones guess but I wouldn't be
surprised to see them make a couple of sweet 16's and maybe even an elite
8. But we'll see. One thing I do see is quite a few more victories over
utah if they actually continue to play each other.
BTW, that wasn't a slight, it was a typo. poyman.
@ute zagYou realize BYU wasn't even in the wcc when Jimmer
played for BYU don't you? They were in the Mtn West conference. Then of
course there is the inconvenient fact that BYU did play gonzaga in the ncaa
tournament Jimmer's sr year and absolutely curb stomped them out of the
tournament. Fail! LOL!
@uteologyNeither was a national championship. Fail.@spokane uteYou realize you are on a BYU article trying to tell
BYU fans that they are the ones obsessed with utah don't you? You appear to
have a lot of spare time on your hands these days with that whole not having to
make any preparations to attend a bowl game thing. LOL!
poynan,I know your all fired up answering the detractors, but
let's put that aside for a second and get back to the subject. What do you
see in the crystal ball for byu?
Question: If your team was 1-12 over the last 7 years against a team that you
played every year, and according to Rivals your team was badly out recruited the
last 2 years in a row, would you come on to their Forums and talk
"smack" to them??? Really?As near as I can tell you only do
that if you are a ute fan... Most ute fans however (at least the ones who
understand basketball) shy away from doing anything like that... And to those
who employ that wisdom I say thanks.
Coach Rose has built a reputable program but it's going to take a Parker
type player to get him to the Final 4. Can he attract such a player? Is there
one in the wings?Coach K is doing a good job at Utah for now, but
about the best he will do is one and done in the NCAA's. Once he gets the
program back on it's feet, Utah will have to upgrade their coaching.
RE: Chris B."And for those byu fans bragging about beating Texas
and Stanford...LOL. Stanford was picked 6th in the Pac 12, by definition a very
average Pac 12 team and Texas was picked 8th in the Big 12, by definition a less
than average Big 12 team."I'm pretty sure you're
talking to me because I'm the only poster who has brought this up. Weird
how you wouldn't respond to any of the other points I made (all of which
were clearly directed to you). Anyhow, since you did respond to my assertion
that wins over Stanford, Texas, and USU were "good" wins, let me respond
to your claim that Stanford and Texas were picked by someone in the preseason to
finish 6th and 8th respectively. Stanford currently has an RPI of
89, a SOS of 102, and a Sagarin ranking of #60Texas has an RPI of 30, a
SOS of 70, and a Sagarin ranking of #73USU has an RPI of 48, a SOS of 64,
and a Sagarin ranking of #63Based on actual performance all three
would be teams considered for the dance. But don't let facts get in the
way, I'd love to hear your response.
Come on ute fans, do your homework... I'm embarrassed for y'all...@crow... BYU has decisively out-recruited the utes in-state and out of
state in 2013 and 2014... Not even close.@crow... Utah has not won
the NCAA Tournment as constituted today... The victory in 1944 was not under
this format and the NIT Champs were considered the National Champs in that era.
Although the utes did win the NIT in 1947(I find this very humorous based on ute
fans objections of BYU fans talking about the 1984 Football Championship that
the Cougs won)...BTW, BYU won the NIT in 1951 and 1966.@ute zag...
Ummm, BYU has only been in the WCC for 2 years (this will be the 3rd)... The
first year was 2001-2012 and the second year was 2012-2013... Jimmer
Fredette's last year was in 2010-2011, he never played in the WCC... But
during his time in the MWC the Cougars never lost to a WCC team... They played
both St. Mary's and Gonzaga in the 2010-2011 season and they beat both
teams... In fact in the round of 32 BYU beat Gonzaga badly to advance to the
@crow... lol...Usually people who come on these threads know a
little bit about the topic being discussed... You might be the exception.. But I
am going to try and help you:A)I didn't make up the #3 on
strength of schedule, it's on your computer too, just go to Yahoo Sports
and click on NCAAB (that means NCAA Basketball)... B)Then click on
"Rankings"... You will see three columns of polls (the AP, the USA
Today/ESPN and the RPI)... The RPI ranks all 351 Colleges eligible for the end
of season Tourney (often referred to as "the Big Dance")... Then click
on the bottom of the column where it says "View Complete Poll"... It
will show you the teams they ranked in the top 100 in the country, BYU will be
towards the top of that list (in the #12 slot)... The rankings are based on a
formula that awards points based on win-loss records of those teams that you
have played or that you are scheduled to play... C) As of this
writing BYU is shown as having the 3rd toughest schedule so far... the utes are
ranked 123 and SOS is 327... Ouch.
@ekuteReally? How about Utah playing a ranked team... Or maybe even
a team in Division I with an RPI less than 100???
Sorry but even as a BYU fan, this article is just the sort of thing haters feed
on. It makes BYU look completely ridiculous. We have reason to be optimistic
about the future with some great recruiting classes but it all still has to fall
into place. Just ask Texas and USC about how great recruiting classes can work
out, or not. Please just don't get ahead of ourselves and take things one
season, one game at a time.
TroyTownAsk Uteology to list the "teams" Utah played in
1944.He won't, of course, because he's too embarrassed to
admit that his imaginary "national champion" LOST pickup games to
"teams" like Salt Lake Air Base and Dow Chemical that may not have had a
single player who even played high school basketball, let alone college
Uteology"1944 NCAA Champion - Utah (24-4)"LOL!Utah only beat TWO college teams in the entire 1944 regular
season - Idaho State(twice) and Colorado College. Why? Because Utah, Idaho State and Colorado College were the ONLY teams in the
entire Intermountain Region that hadn't suspended their basketball programs
by mid-December 1943.The only reason the Utes even played in the
1944 NCAA tournament, after initially turning down their invitation in order to
play and lose in the opening round of the NIT, is because there were so few
teams still playing basketball in 1944 that the NCAA begged the Utes to fill in
for another team that couldn't compete because of a bus crash.The Helms Athletic Foundation, the only national organization of the day in
the business of recognizing college basketball national champions, selected
Army(15-0) as the 1944 National Champion and Holy Cross(27-3) as the 1947
The fact is BYU has no so called "one and done" players or they might
have a chance. Name one Cougar who could be a contributing player for any team
in the NBA. Last year? Anyone in the last 10 years besides Jimmer? The fact is
there aren't any and most likely won't be. Those kind of players
don't go to BYU. They go to North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and
UCLA. You only got Carlino because he was mad about playing behind someone else
at UCLA.Yeah it's okay to dream. Just make sure you realize
that it's only a dream... The chance of winning a NAtional Championship in
Mens basektball is exactly two: Slim and none with Slim already having left the
re: utezag;You want BYU to actually win something before their fans
write anything, how about you do some homework before your comments? The BYU
teams that Jimmer played on never competed in the WCC. Jimmer's senior year
BYU was still a part of the MWC. And that BYU team did beat Gonzaga easily
(89-67) in the second round of the NCAA tournament that year on their Sweet 16
Amazing! I haven't read a single, serious BYU fan claim we will win the NC
in BB. Yet all the Uties claim we do. Where do U get this stuff?BYU is much better than most thought we'd be this year, against a very
good non-conference schedule. Two of our loses to ranked teams were close
games. A month ago I would have conceded the WCC crown to the Zags, but I
honestly believe we can compete with them. The entire WCC is better than I
thought they'd be. Two teams will get NCAA bids and it could be another
three team bid.And how can Uties look at the Cougar pipeline and not
acknowledge the future is very bright? Could one of the highly touted recruits
be a dud? Sure. But there will be some others, like Bartley, who are not
highly touted who turn out to be stars.Mark it down - the Cougs will
make a lot of noise in the NCAA over the next 6+ years.
Duckhunter Highland, UT@CougarColbyActually,
no. utah won the ncaa tournament in 1944, which was the secondary tournament of
the day, the NIT was considered the better tournament then. Army won the
National Championship that year. utah has never won the NCAA Basketball National
Championship, but it is fun to see utah "fans" try to claim they did
when it is so easily verified that they did not.-------------Apparently not easy enough for you to verify since Utah has won both the
NCAA and NIT Championships within a 3 year period:1944 NCAA Champion
- Utah (24-4)1947 NIT Champion - Utah (19-5)
when you read these posts, you can easily see all the Ute fans with time on
their hands and no bowl game to worry about…again. No they're all
ginned up about faults with a BYU team that has all the best LDS talent coming
together….don't worry Utes, there are lots of juco students with poor
academics that will be transferring in until that first DUI conviction. Your
program has a future.
Let's see - Was utah part of the WAC when they made it to the
final four?? That being the case, then "Lone Peak High" should be able
to do the same.
deifibmanSince you brought it up; Utah has a Sugar and Fiesta Bowl
trophy; all within the last 10 years. How about U/Y? BYU fans are infatuated,
concerned and enthralled with all things Utah. I don't get it? They bring
up issues concerning Utah; even when the Ute fans don't. The paranoa runs
deep, very deep.
@KitsutskiWhich Utah fan are you reffering too? I don't see a
single mention of the PAC 12 by a Utah fan; not even Chris B. Paranoid; jealous,
or just plain mad that Utah got invited to the PAC while BYU didn't? The
concern over Utah and the PAC 12 is amazing........sheeesh. Give it a rest!
It is funny to hear u fans try to berate BYU fans for "shooting for the
stars". Can u tell me the last National Championship that u have won....in
any sport? How about the last ten years? How about twenty years? One sport u! U
will never again even taste in your dreams a smidgen of a NC. There is a reason
your trophy case is nearly empty!
I wonder how many tournament teams from respected conferences have a .000
winning percentage against ranked teams? I would imagine it rarely happens.
And for those byu fans bragging about beating Texas and
Stanford...LOLStanford was picked 6th in the Pac 12, by
definition a very average Pac 12 teamand Texas was picked 8th in the
Big 12, by definition a less than average Big 12 team.And in case
you forgot, Texas was picked 8th(OF 10, not 12). Being 8th of 12 would be more
respectable than 8th of 10. But, if you remember, the Big 12 can't find
any more worthy teams to invite to make the Big 12 whole at 12 again.They prefer to be the 10 team Big 12 rather than invite a nobody.
I think the article forgot to point out that the WCC goes through Gonzaga.
Since 1999 the Zags have won the WCC 11 times. Even that great BYU with Jimmer
failed to take the title. I think that BYU fans are getting a little ahead of
themselves. How about actually winning something before writing about how great
your future NCCA tournament trips are going to be? Just a though…
Here Utah fans go again - nothing to cheer for when it comes to the utah
basketball program, but by golly we still have the PAC12! Pull out those PAC12
stickers Utah fans. Slap 'em on that tricycle and show the world your
Accoding to the Rock"Gonzaga took it all and we have beaten them
more than once. Butler has also been a big surprise."---Gonzaga
took what all; the Old Spice Classic? Gonzaga's never been to a final 4.
Sheeesh, at least get your facts straight.
Leave it to Ute fans to claim arrogance on the part of the DN and BYU fans when,
as I recall, over the past couple of years Utah has been proclaiming to the
world that they will be the next Rose Bowl champ, Rose Bowl participant,
Southern Division champ, greatest thing to hit the PAC11.1+u, etc. - none of
which has panned out. If you want to talk arrogance you had better begin by
looking inward.As for BYU fans, it is clear that most are realistic
when it comes to BYU's basketball team over the next 4 - 6 years. We will
be good (is that arrogance?) but how good, nobody really knows. One way or the
other it ought to be fun!
Heck yea! We could win it alls this year for sure.
Gone fishinSeattle, WADoes that apply to football too or just
basketball?Utah's non conference basketball schedule this year
is a joke.Kinda like BYU's football schedule every year.
@ The Rock you said Gonzaga took it all and we have beaten them more than once.
When did Gonzaga take it all? The best they did was in 1999 with a
trip to the Elite 8.I think you got them confused with an elite
Has the Deseret News become the official "house organ" of BYU Athletics?
Because that's how this story is couched. BYU has a very good team, and I
recognize that this story is considered "blog" material and therefore
open to interpretation, but this kind of "promotion" by the newspaper
calls into question the credibility of the author and the Sports department. I
think it is unfortunate that journalism has devolved to this level of promotion,
especially when there are other programs in the state as good who get little
coverage, comparatively. What I would recommend the DesNews do is publish a
special paid-for "All-Cougar" section where people can pay for this kind
of material. But I truly believe generally published stories should strive to
be somewhat "objective," which this is clearly not.
@Poyman I dont know where you get your stats but 3rd best schedule byu plays in
the WCC which has one team in the top 25. So if your team has the 3 hardest
schedule as of date it will soon go into s downward spiral you play in the WCC.
Utahs schedule will only get more difficult once PAC12 play starts. 3 teams in
the top 25, 4 in the top 30, and one happens to be #1 after beating Duke and San
Diego St.The PAC is a far superior conference last year was just a
down year. @ Rational Majerus team did not have less talent he had
two lottery picks leading his team he had #8 draft pick Andre Miller, # 12 draft
pick Michael Doleac. He did not have the depth as the other programs Jordy just
did not cut it as a DIV1 PG.
Crisssy,No the ute fans just say that the utes are the best team in the
state because they have the best record. Any church b-ball team could have the
same record as the utes. Try playing some stiff competition and then we will
With the recruits we have coming into the program, we should win a couple of
National Championships in the next 7 or 8 years.
Crissy,it is not BYU fans that are talking national championship. it was
the writer of the article. Please try to keep up.
Doesn't a team have to advance beyond the sweet 16 & reach a final 4
prior to any championship talk? LOL
Chris B."If byu fans want to brag about being an NCAA tournament
worthy team(Which your fans have claimed all year) then do better than 0-3
against the ranked teams you've played. Great teams beat other great teams.
If a team has a .000 winning percentage against ranked teams they are clearly
not a great team."BYU is 0-3 against currently ranked teams, but
the season is young. Also, BYU would be 0-4 against ranked teams had they lost
to Texas (who is 8-1), but they didn't. No BYU fans are
claiming BYU is a "great" team, but a legitimate argument can be made
that BYU is on track to be tourney-worthy based on how they've played thus
far. They already have three wins against top 100 RPI teams so far this season
(against four all of last season), and were very close in two road losses
against top ranked opponents. Last year our favorite troll noted
that BYU didn't get invited to the tournament due to lack of top 100 RPI
wins. Why have you changed your mind (flip flopped) about the value of beating
"good" teams (i.e. USU, Texas, Stanford)?
So, Chris, what is it you are looking for? A'tournament worthy' team
or a 'great' team? If you keep changing what you are looking for,
it's no wonder BYU fans can't come up with the right answer for you.
BYU *is* a tournament worthy team, but they are not a great team. If they are
7-3 with an RPI of #11 and SOS of 3, I would say that is tournament worthy.
Sorry if we can't answer all your confusing questions correctly.
@CougarColby"Duckhunter, yes they did in 1944. Come on
now."Actually, no. utah won the ncaa tournament in 1944, which
was the secondary tournament of the day, the NIT was considered the better
tournament then. Army won the National Championship that year. utah has never
won the NCAA Basketball National Championship, but it is fun to see utah
"fans" try to claim they did when it is so easily verified that they did
Crow says: "(Utah is) the only program to have won a National Championship
in the 3 classifications AAU, NCAA, and NIT."I'm sorry; as
I am not a 13-year-old girl, I usually only use "LOL" ironically to mock
others who use it, but in this case . . LOL!!I must track down a
"University of Utah: 1916 AAU Champions!" tee-shirt. The consarned
campus bookstore seems to have run out!We have officially plumbed
the absolute depths of "collegiate athletic accomplishments to brag
about." I shall continue to look for evidence of the Brigham Young
Academy's mythical 1905 Regional Title in cheese rolling.
Cinci Man, "Regarding your question, BYU was expected to lose
all 3 games in question." First of all, you are wrong. Byu was
favored against Iowa State due to the game being in Provo. It was byu by 6.
Second, what does being "expected to lose" have to do with
anything? If byu fans want to brag about being an NCAA tournament worthy
team(Which your fans have claimed all year) then do better than 0-3 against the
ranked teams you've played. Great teams beat other great teams. If a team
has a .000 winning percentage against ranked teams they are clearly not a great
team. And go ahead, tell me Utah hasn't beaten any top 25
teams. And guess what, I've never single a single Ute this year say the
Utes are a tournament worthy team.LOL
Hey folks, it looks like about the only person here seriously promoting
BYU's NC chances is the author of the lame, rah-rah article. The great
majority of the BYU fans here (and I'm one of them) are much more
realistic. I'll be happy to beat Gonzaga once this year, finish in the top
two of the WCC and slip into the tournament. And the team is fun to watch. Not a
lot of arrogance to look at here, folks, move on.
It's "arrogance" to strive for a national championship? Seriously?
That is arrogance? Then sign up every school in the country as
"arrogant" because I'm pretty sure that is the goal for every team.
RE: Crow"BYU is even losing the top in state basketball players
to Utah a down program. Two years in a row Utah has received a commitment from
the States Mr. Basketball."Seriously? Top in-state basketball
recruits in last two recruiting classes2014 (Scout/Rivals/ESPN, ESPN
rank)Brekkott Chapman (4/4/4, #46) – UtahT.J. Haws (4/4/4,
#67) – BYUDalton Nixon (3/3/3, NR) – BYURyan Andrus
(NR/?/3) – BYUGary Payton II (NR/3) – Oregon St.2013Eric Mika (4/4/4, #28) – BYUNick Emery (4/4/4, #45)
– BYUParker Van Dyke (NR/3) – UtahBrandon Miller (NR/3)
– UtahSai Tummala (NR) – ASU
Bungalow As much of a pipe dream that it is, I would feel confident
saying our NC hopes are in line with your PAC-12 championship hopes.And as Cougar fan living in SLC, the Utah arrogance isn't much different.
I came back for a visit this fall and found the "PAC-12 Country" apparel
ridiculous. Are you guys fans of Utah or the PAC-12? Puzzling. Duckhunter, yes they did in 1944. Come on now.
@ Rational, one and done works, when it does, where the team is deep across the
board. BYU can get some great talent, but it doesn't run deep enough. But
your point only addresses players who come in an play right away and fails to
address the fitness, skills and drive of the returning missionaries. And note,
the proof is in the pudding. If you were right, then BYU would have already
been to the F4. This is no knock on the missionary program. But some young men
can make contributions in other ways.
This article was written to stir the pot and has succeeded. To the haters: no
real BYU fans are claiming a future national championship as a likely outcome,
but we do acknowledge that BYU has improved markedly over the last decade and a
deep tournament run is certainly possible. Here are a few numbers...BYU has been dancing 6 of the last 8 years BYU has had 20+ win seasons
for each of the last eight yearsBYU’s recruiting classes of 2013 and
2014 are the best in BYU historyBYU basketball has beat three teams ranked
in the top 10 in the last few yearsBYU is 0-3 against ranked teams so far
this season… However, Texas (8-1) and possibly USU (5-2) and Stanford
(6-2) would be ranked had they beat the CougarsBYU hasn’t lost to a
PAC 12 team since 2010 (6-0), while Utah has never won more than four in a row
against PAC 12 foesBYU has had at least 11 National championships since
2000: men’s soccer (1), women’s x-country (2), men’s lacrosse
(3), men’s volleyball (2), men’s rugby (3)
@ekute... I think I know what you mean about the DN being objective
and hard to take seriously... When I read your posts I think and feel the same
exact way... However, when I read this DN series, I could really see
the possibilities that they talk about... In fact, I see them to be far more
objective than most of the things that you have written on this topic.I suppose they could write about the utes hoops future, but they like to be
positive... They want to talk about potential success for schools in Utah not
about "snagging 10th place" in a conference that only put 2 of their 12
teams in the Tournament.
@Crow,Losing top in state basketball players? 2012, Jordan Loveridge
that is it. 2011, Corbin went to UC Davis and I believe is at SLCC right now.
The last two Mr. Baketball's that Utah got ended up finishing their careers
elsewhere (Grim and Deane). I'm pretty sure this year's Mr. Basketball
will go to a Lone Peak player (but who knows this early) which would be another
BYU commit. Your logic and facts are...puzzling.In the last 10 years
Utah has recruited 3 Mr. Basketballs, with 2 of them not even finishing their
collegiate careers at Utah. BYU had 6, USU had 1 and Corbin went to UC Davis.
Esquire has identified the problem. Mission interruptions. Kid from my neck of
the woods, C Neilson (mentioned in the article) was something of a star in
SoCal. He left right out of highschool and will be back for 4 years. Mika, OTOH,
will interrupt his hoops career to take two years off. This is bad. Period.
Consider Collinsworth's older brother - came back out of shape, got hurt,
end of story. Kyle looks good. Would he have had a better 2nd year had he not
had the interruption? Don't know, but I'd be willing to bet he would
be better.If I'm Rose, I'd tell recruits to go out first
or lose their scholarship if they go out later. And I'd recruit a lot more
non-LDS kids like Bartley. It is important for a team to have continuity.
I don't see it as arrogant to hope, plan and strive for the brass ring in
any sport, and to play anyone, anywhere. Take the best student athletes who are
willing to play for BYU on its terms, expect excellence from them, and I'm
willing to be happy with the results.The day BYU trades its values
in on a(nother) misguided attempt to "take it to the next level" is the
day I turn in my BYU gear. Hopefully that will never happen. To
any other university who wants to be basically the best NFL or NBA farm team in
the area, go right ahead. You'll get exactly what you deserve.Go Cougars!
I guess I might be a heretic hoping Mika doesn't go on a mission. It
worked out okay for Danny Ainge. Danny may not become a general authority but
he did serve as a bishop and raised a fine family which is the most important
As a devout Cougar, I can't take this article seriously. The lack of
solid, interior defense kills the Cougs against the better talent in basketball.
When Nate Austin is suppose to be an answer to anything, we have problems.
There is a lot of guard talent and small forward talent coming in, but not
dominating defensive talent. That is where there problems lie. And for the BYU
haters out there, one reporter does not represent an entire fan base. Most of us
do not have aspirations of national championships but a BCS bowl and an Elite
Eight as hopeful goals, but honestly winning a few games against top 25 talent
in either sport is a little more realistic. One step at a time right now.
@bungalow 25 years in SLC off of Foothill Drive. I was 4 miles from
@ Duckhunter Acutally Utah fans are very rational when it comes to National
Championships in Basketball after all they are the only program to have won a
National Championship in the 3 classifications AAU, NCAA, and NIT. Not even
Kentucky or the big powers can claim that. BYU at best will make it
to the sweet 16 they do not play defense and lack guard play needed in the
tourney see Andre Miller for your prime example. BYU cant recruit that type of
athlete. BYU is even losing the top in state basketball players to Utah a down
program. Two years in a row Utah has received a commitment from the States Mr.
Basketball. Sorry BYU just is an average team from the wcc
@bungalowStop your pointless generalizations. Of all the comments so
far I think there is 1 in which a Cougar fan thought BYU could realistically win
a NC in either football or basketball. Putting words into our mouths. The writer
is paid to write what he does, he is motivated financially, not be his
fanhood.The truth is a realistic fan knows that a NC in either
football or basketball at BYU is LONG shot. The stars would have to align
perfects, just like they did in '84. Remember that team probably
shouldn't have won that NC, but the stars aligned. Michigan wasn't
that great of a team and although we beat Marino in Pitt, that teams ended up
being seriously overrated that year.But we can always hope and
dream. BYU will have a great core that will compete for a WCC title and spank
Utah each year. We may even get another Sweet 16 team which is successful for
any BYU team.Chris B, they do actually. They look at RPI and BYU is
top 10 right now. How is Utah doing so far, or are they beating up on sisters of
@Chris BBYU got a bowl bid this year and Utah did not. That is
consistent with what BYU fans said all year. What did you predict about Utah
all season long? Oh yeah, the one thing you predicted accurately is that Utah
would beat BYU for the 5th time. You have to be given that one. 1 out of 239
is not bad. Regarding your question, BYU was expected to lose all 3 games in
question. They played well against great teams, but did not pull it out. They
might have, but did not.
Chris:This article is about future teams, isn't it? So the
question about the three losses to ranked teams this year is relevant, how?
Probably close to 100% of BYU hoops fans sees this year's team as typical .
. solid but not close to "NCAA title" material.If
you're asking for consistency, does that mean the Utes don't get
credit for losing to the ranked teams in the PAC 10.2? You seem to take great
consolation in the fact that they simply are in the conference despite a lousy
record in hoops and football. Chant it with me now; "I love my BCS
membership . . I love my BCS membership . . ".I call balderdash
on claiming losses to all but one of the decent teams in your glorious
conference and then beaming with pride about it, all the while LOL-ing about BYU
losing in competitive games to teams that would demolish the Utes.
Maybe it's best if Mika DOES serve a mission so that he will have 2 years
to play with Emery/Haws. Then again, I'll be fine if he doesn't so I
won't have to suffer through Austin and Worthington baffooning around in
the post. Yes, I did just say baffooning.
I wonder if the NCAA committee is impressed byu's .000 winning percentage
against ranked teams with 3 games played?Or does simply playing
ranked teams count for something byu fans? And try to be consistent with what
you said all football season.LOL!
@bungalowWhat "arrogance" have BYU fans displayed in this
article? And of course you are wrong about "The attitude that they can win a
national anything" seeing as though they have won a couple of National
Championships and played for a couple more in the last two years. You see
actually winning National Championships means they actually "can win a
national anything" since they keep winning "natuional anythings".But that is what I love about utah "fans", complete and total
seperation from reality brought on by irrational jealousy and hate. LOL!
I don't know that it is too unrealistic for BYU to talk about a national
championship. I have not lived here long, am not LDS, and do not really know the
history except the last 2-3 years, but if BYU really was so close to a national
championship in 2011 then I don't see why not again. It seems like these
teams of the future should have more talent by far than that 2011 team, and if
they all stay to play 4 years then that will give them an advantage over the
teams that have players leaving early every year like Kentucky. I think fans
always like to look into the future and the article was also extremely
insightful for those of us that are not maybe as familiar with the program
histories and such to know what to watch for in coming seasons.
@EsquireSpringville, UT"I'll say what isn't
supposed to be said. The missionary program is disruptive to BYU's
basketball program and could be the thing that stands in the way of big time
success. Teams need time to fully gel - more than one year, and the rotating
door that BYU deals with, added to the weakening of skills and fitness when
players don't pay for two years, is a killer. Them's the
facts."Totally agree with you but it's what it is and BYU,
despite that difficult challenge is managing it quite well. And as exciting as
it is with all the pieces now in place and with those coming in the future,
I'm still not completely sold on any chance of a final four or even a NC
for that matter because we lack more big men who can play. We need at least a
couple of 7ters like the two kids Baylor have who can crash the boards and
rebound. And all of them need to seriously work harder on their 3s and free
throws. Go Cougars!
Meh; it's nice to think about, but I still have unpleasant flashbacks to
the supposed glory years to be ushered in by Shawn Bradley, Ken Roberts, Randy
Reid, etc. I played against Reid, Bradley, Justin Weidauer and Russell Larson
and had high hopes for them. Then Bradley left for the League, and long story
short, and we ended up with just another solid team that was not equipped to
deal with the elite of the power conferences. Oh well; such is life.If the "Faithful Four" pan out and everything breaks just so, maybe we
catch lightning in a bottle. I'm cautiously optimistic because the core of
this team will have an advantage due to having played together for years at an
elite HS level. Chemistry between Emery, Mika, Haws, etc could be worth a few
points per game alone.Now, as to the "Faitful Four" moniker
-- just stop it. It may be delivered tongue-in-cheek, but if you want BYU, its
teams, and its fans to draw even more scorn than they already do, just add a
presumptuous, insufferable nickname.
@EsquireFunny you'd say that the missionary program is a downer
for BYU when so many opposing coaches complain about the big advantage it is for
BYU to have older more mature players that intimidate their young kids.
We already have to put up with the byu football team thinking they are going to
be national champs every August. Now we have to put up with the byu basketball
team thinking they are going to be national champs every October?Give Utah
and the world a huge break. Ain't gonna happen! Period!
@ Esquire"Teams need time to fully gel - more than one year, and
the rotating door that BYU deals with, added to the weakening of skills and
fitness when players don't pay for two years, is a killer. Them's the
facts."Except the fact that teams are now routinely led to the
Final Four and championships by one-and-done players, and except the fact the
best player on last year's BYU team was on his first year back from his
mission.Fact is, your facts are assumptions, and they have been and
are increasingly being proven to be wrong.
DN, Really? How about they beat a ranked opponent before you start
talking NC. With this constant stream of byu fluff it's hard to take the
objective articles seriously. It seems that even some of the byu "fans"
are "up to here" with it. Good luck to Coach Rose and Cougar basketball.
I'll say what isn't supposed to be said. The missionary program is
disruptive to BYU's basketball program and could be the thing that stands
in the way of big time success. Teams need time to fully gel - more than one
year, and the rotating door that BYU deals with, added to the weakening of
skills and fitness when players don't pay for two years, is a killer.
Them's the facts.
An important factor not mentioned in this article is that there are so many huge
programs out there that also may have great futures. I hope fields it's
greatest teams in the next few years, but the chances of having a really big
year comes down to the players being consistently skilled and applying those
skills to each and every game. I like what I see, but I have yet to see BYU put
a team together that brings their best to the court or field every game. With
the exception of men's and women's volleyball, I just haven't
seen the consistency. But I sure would be happy to see Bronco or Dave
accomplish that. One thing is for sure, undefeated teams in basketball March
Madness or a football season bring well deserved championships and titles.
It's all about coaching. Majerus coached up a team that was less talented
than their opponents, and took them to the Final, where, in my opinion, if
he'd given Andre Miller 2 minutes rest in the second half he'd have
led them to the championship.Butler, as school that had never done
anything in basketball, came one long shot away from winning it all, and made
the final two years in a row. The first year with a white guy as their best
player.If Rose can DEVELOP talent, and out coach his opponents, it
is, indeed, possible. Those are big ifs.
@jpc53Cottonwood Heights, UTSorry but I just don't see
Lone Peak, err BYU, beating the Kentucky's of the world. There would have
to be so many things go right for them to have a chance. Gonzaga
took it all and we have beaten them more than once. Butler has also been a big
surprise.If you don't dream big, the dreams will never come
LOL!byu doesn't have a single elite eight APPEARANCE in 20
years and you guys are talking national title?LOL!
Not going to happen. I predict maybe one sweet sixteen in those years. Defense
will always be a problem at BYU. Players are not quick enough to play man to
man. Top teams will always rip them apart just like this year.As for
the game against Utah Saturday I think it will be close. BYU should win but it
wouldn't surprise me if Utah won. They are actually better than most people
I think the program would be considered a success if they just made it to the
"tournament" and won (1) single game anytime in the next decade.
Too many variables, such as injuries, missions and players not living up to
their potential. I will admit that if Dastrup and Haws and a couple of others
leave for missions right after high school and are playing in 2016 along with
Mika, Emery and those who are serving now, they have what looks to be an
excellent team with 2 deep quality players at most positions and could be good
enough to make some noise in the big dance in '16 and '17. I like the
way they are playing now and think they have an solid chance to win the WCC and
go dancing this year.
This article disappoints and isn't really worth the time to read.I like these players and I hope the Cougars can challenge Gonzaga for the
conference championship of the WCC. Otherwise, BYU needs to be able to recruit
more athletic bigs and quicker guards to play national championship caliber
defense. I enjoy the attacking style of play of the Cougar teams,
but they must get better at defending and at rebounding to become serious
national contenders. But it's fun to be a BYU fan.My biggest
concern this week is whether the Cougs can outplay Utah on December 14th. That
game will be a tough challenge!
Agree with the first 2 commenters - this is a big walk through fantasy-land. BYU
has been to the Sweet 16 exactly twice in 32 years. We are notoriously weak when
it comes to playing top 10 or even top 20 teams. So to say that the incoming
players will somehow magically solve that is a huge stretch. I'd prefer we
get some wins first and then talk about where we are, vs. where we should be or
could be. Same goes for football. No wins in any BCS bowl. Ever. But
every year we think somehow we will win it all. I'm waiting for
the day when we actually break free and move up to the next level. But for now,
our programs are not taken seriously on a national level.
The u fans are just so beside themselves due to knowing that they will be on
another long, long, long losing streak against BYU. We will hear about their
playing for a NC and playing in the final four, but how many times did they do
that. BYU may not have made that for a long time, but we play in the big dance
more than anyone, especially u.
That's all good and well about the future and I am excited for BYU and
Coach Rose and of course the players... But hey, we got a pretty darn good team
right now... According to the RPI the Cougs have played the 3rd toughest
schedule in America and we're 7-3 and could very easily be 9-1...We need some focus and a few small adjustments and I we could enter WCC play
with a 10-3 record and a 3-0 record against the big bad pac12... We could very
easily register more pac12 wins this year than our little sister on the hill...
How cool would that be... Perhaps with a 3-0 record we could talk Commissioner
Scott into seeding the Cougs in the Conference Tourney... It's the week
following the WCC Tourney and I believe it's at the MGM in Las Vegas (same
city as the WCC and a week later... It would fit perfectly)...
Its possible that BYU will go deep in the NCAA Tournament, and as an optimistic
BYU fan I think they probably will sometime in the next 5 years or so. But even
with my thickest blue goggles on, it is hard for me to think we have a chance at
a National Championship in Basketball (or Football for that matter). But it is
fund to fantasize and dream of what could happen in the future. And who knows,
maybe I am wrong and a NC is in the future for BYU in one of the two sports that
really matter. If you don't think it is possible (even if you know that it
is extremely unlikely), then it takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. Go
Sorry but I just don't see Lone Peak, err BYU, beating the Kentucky's
of the world. There would have to be so many things go right for them to have a
Light up the B signal. Cue troll swarm........But that would be
great if BYU made some big noise in the dance in the next 5 or so years. It
really could be possible. I am not making predictions, I am just saying the
pieces are there.
What usually happens is they read the press, it goes to their heads, and they
forget to play the game. Maybe it would be better to write about their chances
of winning it all if and when they reach the Final Four. The players should be
thinking about the next game, and maybe the fans and press should be, too.
You're only as good as your last game, and, if I recall correctly, they
lost.I'm a BYU fan. I want to see them focus on getting it
done, not daydreaming.
Isn't fantasy fun? The author certainly states the truth (and
the obvious) when he says it is hard to perfectly predict the future, especially
3, 4, or 5 years out. Many of us remember vividly all of those futuristic
predictions when Jake Heaps and his supporting cast came to BYU.... And, regarding the first two installments of this series, if if and buts were
candy and nuts we'd have Christmas every day!