Dick Harmon: How would BYU's Taysom Hill, Jamaal Williams have fared in a conference?

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  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Dec. 10, 2013 2:39 p.m.


    You asked for consistency and and end to hypocricy. Since we are asking for things, I would like accuracy.

    You claimed that "BYU's SOS is stronger than almost all of the teams from those 'big 5' conferences."

    That isn't true. According to Sagarin, 33 of the 62 big 5 conference teams played a more challenging schedule that BYU in 2012. The statement you could have made accurately would have been - BYU's SOS is stronger than that of almost half of the teams from the big 5 conferences.

    Whether BYU would have played a tougher schedule as a member of one of the big 5 conferences is a more complicated issue. It depends on which conference (and division) we are talking about, and which opponents BYU would have kept for their OOC games.

    Since more than half of the big 5 conference teams played tougher schedules than the Cougars, it stands to reason that competing in a big 5 conference may not have made BYU's SOS go down, but more likely would have improved it.

  • CougarColby Fort Benning, GA
    Dec. 10, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    I still can't understand why Utah "fans" read BYU stories and feel they need to comment on our team... Go back to wearing your PAC-12 Country shirts, stickers and flags. On that note, there isn't a single PAC-12 school, but Utah, that tries to advertise the Conference. That is how awful Utah is right now. They have to advertise their conference and not the school. To think you guys are even considering firing Kyle, and just who do you think you are? What coach wants to coach at Utah? if they don't have Utah ties, then the Utah job is just a career builder, ala Urban.

    BYU fans, be realistic here. Taysom and Jamaal probably don't run for that many yards if they play in the PAC 10.2, Big 12, Big 10, SEC or ACC. That is the realistic truth.

    There is a lot to look forward to. 1st year of a new offensive system. Remember, not a single player on the offense was recruited to play in this system. They are all Doman guys and his offense. Give another 1-3 years where Anae can get his guys in there and things "should" look better.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 10, 2013 9:50 a.m.


    So what you wanted was affirmation to help prop up your fragile ego and help you settle your insecurities? Glad I could help. But it doesn't change the fact that that was not the discussion or that you had to make a vain attempt to change the subject to try and get some validation. Sad really.

    @utah 95

    "I also sincerely believe that they would not have been as successful in any of the big 5 conferences."

    But the utah "fan" reliance on SOS as an excuse for utah's poor performance doesn't jibe with that statement. In fact BYU's SOS is stronger than almost all of the teams from those "big 5" conferences including the ones playing in BCS bowls. The only conference you can make that case for would be the pac12 because playing in any of those other conferences would have made BYU's SOS go down, and if their SOS had been weaker wouldn't it stand to reason, using your logic of course, that their performance would have been better?

    All I really want from utah "fans" is consistency and an end to the hypocrisy. I know that won't happen.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    Highland, UT

    What is it you want me to "respond" about? That utah has had more players drafted recently? OK they have


    That's exactly what I was looking for Duckhunter. Now don't go and forget it.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    Good comment. Thanks for actually being rational and composed in your critique. That's my main problem with some people on here. If they disagree, no matter how valid the other point was, it automatically becomes a "fail" or "a typical (insert fan base) post" and that's what drives me crazy.

    You're right that 3 is only slightly higher than 2 which is why I also included the second-round information to back up my point which was that while BYU does a lot of things well, some even better than Utah, getting people into the NFL is clearly advantage Utah. But I'm like you, I also cheer for other players from the state like Pitta and Wagner.

    I disagree in that I do think a lot of people care about how well your school does in making pros; people such as fans and recruits. Duckhunter's post kind of confirms that when he has to throw in that Ziggy was taken "far far above" Star. It shows he cares (and seems a little insecure) about who gets drafted where. So I thought I'd give him some additional info.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Dec. 9, 2013 9:37 p.m.


    My congratulations to Hill, Williams, and the BYU team are sincere.

    I also sincerely believe that they would not have been as successful in any of the big 5 conferences. And I firmly believe that unbiased followers of college football would agree with me on this issue.

    51 of the 62 teams in the big 5 conferences faced 3 or more top 30 opponents this year. BYU faced 2, and predictably lost to them both.

    I didn't say that BYU should be embarrassed by their schedule. Considering the challenges of being early in independence, it was an admirable schedule. It was better than any schedule Utah has played before 2013, but I wouldn't characterize BYU's 35th best SOS as "much higher" than Utah's 41st (2012) or 49th (2011) schedules.

    Sagarin ranked 5-7 Utah as being only 2 spots below 8-4 BYU. Couldn't one "reasonably surmise" that Sagarin believes that playing BYU's schedule versus Utah's is worth an additional 3 wins?

    What you called Utah's "abysmal" performance included beating BYU - again. That result is also "a part of the permanent record college football."

    We often don't agree, Ducky. But if you're aiming for BYU haters, trust me, I'm not your guy...

  • Daved6 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 3:27 p.m.

    Put togehter an 8 or 12 team playoff then you don't have to make a fuss about SOS and a bunch of speculating about whatever. You'll actually see some great football in place of (this is my dream) all of these useless bowl games.

    How and why we are where we are is just stupid. 4 team playoff should only be a step to an actual playoff and tournament with more teams. The National Champion will actually earn it under such a scenario.

  • mn_online In, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    About the same as they did out of one.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 1:10 p.m.


    "But don't kid yourself, BYU's win-loss record and individual statistics wouldn't be as shiny if they'd faced top tier opponents week after week."

    But they did, utah "fans" like to just keep lying about it. BYU played the #32 SOS in the country which is a tougher SOS than almost all of the teams playing in BCS bowls this year. Don't believe me? Well look it up, it is true. BYU beat more teams going to bowl games than utah did and also played a tougher SOS than utah did in its first two years in the pac12. Seeing as though BYU's SOS was much higher than utah's in its first two years in the pac12, and BYU has a better record than utah had in either of those years, we can reasonably surmise BYU would have performed at least as well, if not better, than utah has.

    You can use SOS to make whiney excuses for utah's abysmal performance all you want but it doesn't make it go away, the abysmal performance is still a part of the permanent record of college football.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 1:02 p.m.


    Well since you borught baksetball into it then let's discuss that sport. BYU has beaten utah 7 in a row, 11 of the last 12, and has the overall series lead. Yes BYU would be vastly more competitive in the pac12 than utah is because BYu is vastly better than utah is.

    And yes you are obviously worried about since you are on a BYU article trying to claim how superior utah is when they demonstrably are not, in any sport.

    Fun stuff for me though so do keep it up. LOL!

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter Are we not talking about football since tricky Dick brought up the argument that Hill and Williams would thrive in a conference. Now when the other sports come relevant to football and Basketball then maybe I will care about what BYU has done in the past. But until cross country, tiddley winks, and basket weaving become relevant who cares.

    Utah is still in the Conference of Champions and their recruiting and facilites are improving to the point that we will be able to compete and be more competative in the other sports. So no worries

  • nhatch82 Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 11:37 a.m.


    You realize that the point you were making is that since 2000 BYU has 2 1st round draft picks and Utah has 3 right? We are aware that more Utes have entered the draft than the cougs but you originally called out Duckhunter for saying Ziggy was drafted 9 spots ahead of Star and made a big deal about how little of a difference that is. 3 vs 2 isn't a huge discrepancy either. I dont think this makes anyone insecure. Yes Utah has had more success in the NFL, but I dont think anyone really cares that much. The rivalry ends after they graduate. I dont cheer against ute players in the NFL. In fact I frequently cheer on the Loutulaieleisies (No Idea how to spell it),Smith's, and Weddle's in the league.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Dec. 9, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    It's interesting that the Deseret News' most tenured BYU homer is wondering how life would be in a conference. What's wrong Dick, still haven't gotten over Utah getting invited to go west instead of your beloved Cougars?

    Congratulations to Hill and Williams for teaming up for an historic season. And ongratulations to BYU for winning 8 games.

    But don't kid yourself, BYU's win-loss record and individual statistics wouldn't be as shiny if they'd faced top tier opponents week after week.

    If you can't bring yourself to admit that from watching Utah struggle while moving to the Pac 12, then look at TCU's and WVU's experiences since moving up to the Big 12.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 9:42 a.m.


    What is it you want me to "respond" about? That utah has had more players drafted recently? OK they have but I never said they haven't, nor did I ever make any other claims about it, you just did that to try to deflect from the failure of yours and cowboys posts.

    But of course almost all of those players were drafted from a mwc program, not a pac12 program, and that had nothing to do with what cowboy was trying to claim. The only thing that mattered in his claim was that he tried to say lotuleilei was drafted in the first round because of conference affiliation while BYU's players were hurt by no conference affiliation when I demonstrated perfectly it was untrue since BYU actually had a player drafted substnatially higher in the exact same draft.

    You can try to deflect to another subject if you want to, and I will continue to point out the failure of doing so. jordan gross and alex smith have exactly nothing to do with the failed "point" cowboy failed at making and I exposed.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 9:35 a.m.


    Which record of BYU's "would still be worse"? Are you just talking about football or are you talking about overall athletics? In football I highly doubt they'd be any "worse" although I will grant you that it would be about the same. But in overall sports BYU would be so vastly superior to what utah is, because they are so vastly superior to what utah is, that it would be even more embarrassing for you. BYU has a perenial top 25 overall athletic program. They actually win National Championships in other sports, with soem frequency. The pac12 prides itself on the championships it wins in minor sports and BYU is a top program in almost all minor sports. They would not only compete well in the pac12 in those sports they would be at the top of the pac12 in many of them, and competitive in ALL of them.

    utah is not particularly competitive in any of them, at least not thus far, and is nowhere close to winning a conference championship in any of them. Just the way it is.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 10:10 p.m.


    Couldn't one also say that you "completely ignored the fact" that Reynolds went from being a potential first-round pick from the MWC one year to an undrafted player from an independent the next?

    While I don't agree entirely with cowboy, his point's valid that Reynolds couldn't be placed onto any kind of all-conference team to help him. That's not a "fail" of an argument. Your point about Ziggy is also good. The difference I see between Ansah and Reynolds is that Ansah did receive recognition, like Senior Bowl MVP, that boosted him. But you've both got good points, which was my point.

    Also, I looked up a definition for painting with a broad brush for you. It says "To describe a class of objects...in general terms, without specific details and without attention to individual variations." Your quotes: "Typical utah 'fan' post by you" and "That is a [sic] typical for utah 'fans' on these boards." Sounds like you do paint with a broad brush.

    Finally, you've again failed to respond to my original post about the draft history. I'd love to hear from you about that.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 9:39 p.m.

    In Dick Harmon's "just for fun" projection, he fails to consider the difficulty of playing in a major conference. It is a tough grind. There is no "recovery week" against Idaho State or Nevada. Rough week at Wisconsin? Now you face Michigan, then Penn State, then Ohio State. Would Williams and Hill survive the season uninjured? Maybe. What about their offensive line and receivers? A couple of key injuries can quickly make your team one dimensional.

    Now that the season is over, we see that BYU "toughest schedule ever" meant playing only one team in the top 25. One team! Congrats to Williams and Hill for the accomplishment, but how would they have fared in the PAC12 (5 top 25 teams) or Big12 (3 top 25 teams)? Not so well.

  • Ronald Uharriet SWun City, Ca.
    Dec. 8, 2013 7:40 p.m.

    When we play weak give me games, (Idaho State, Middle Tenn. etc), we rack up great stats that are almost meaningless for anything other than racking up great stats. When we play tough teams, like Wisconsin or DN, our stats do not look nearly as rich.

    If we compare ourselves to what we might be in the MWC, we would be a top contender each year.
    If we compare ourselves to what we might be in the Pac 12 or Big 12, we may find ourselves in the same position that Utah is now in. Strength of schedule makes a definite difference.

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    @duckhunter byus record would still be worse. Utah just needs to build depth something byu can not do with the limitations. If byu can't recruit the teos and the latest top lds recruit who just accepted an offer at notre dame. Utah will be there in two to three years byu will still be padding their schedules. Have fun watching cougar football next year. If you don't go undefeated with that schedule you truly don't belong.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 5:13 p.m.



    Those are the progressive records of the utah football team since joining the pac12. Nothing about that "showed this year that they can compete with any one in the Pac", in fact what it "showed" is that they are getting progressively less competitive. You can try to spin it anyway you want but the records do not lie.

    If you want I can also post utah's pac12 overall record in all sports but I'll warn you up front it is extremely bad, double digits below .500 and a real embarrassment. But you just say the word and I'll post it for you. Do you want to know what it is?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 5:09 p.m.


    Here is his quote, and it was obviously a giant failure whether you like me pointing it out or not.

    "BYU goes independent and struggles and with no conference awards he was just another dude on another below average team and he goes undrafted in an epic draft stock free fall.

    As opposed to Star Lotuleilei who got recognition and went in the first round."

    So he tried to make the case that BYU's independence is causing their players to lose draft stock and be drafted lower, then uses a utah player as evidence of it while completely ignoring the fact independent BYU had a player drafted substantially higher than the utah player he was trying to use as an example in the exact same draft.

    Yes it was a failure, yes you intentionally ignored that fact in a lame attempt to "counter" me and yes I pointed out you failed as well. That is a typical for utah "fans" on these boards, not a "broad brush" at all, a simple and demonstrable fact which I have now proven twice.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 2:36 p.m.


    Tell me, what context does cowboy's post provide that invalidates anything I said?

    My post was in reply to you saying Ansah was drafted "far far above" Lotulelei, which, of course, is ridiculous. Then I provided some possible motivation for you being so insecure about BYU's draft history.

    If you want to talk about cowboy's post, let's talk about cowboy's post. He had an observation and found some evidence that supported it. You found some evidence that countered his idea. Does that somehow make him a failure, as you say, and you correct? His supporting evidence was just as strong as your counter evidence.

    Also, you never addressed anything from my post. Is that the typical BYU fan response? Since we're painting people with broad brushes, I guess I need to know how to describe all BYU fans everywhere.

    Oh, and did your Shift button break again when you typed Utah? Why do you put fan in quotation marks? More subtle slights.

    Finally, 2010 junior high students called, they want their "fail" phrase back.

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    @cougndawg unlike byu Utah belongs they have a better ability to recruit the depth necessary to compete in a premier league. The showed this year that they can compete with any one in the Pac but losing Scott, Murphy,Wilson,Tonga hampered their depth and offensive output. Byu just lost to the teams in the premier leagues even though they were at full strength on offense. Again stay were you belong on the outside looking in or go back to the mwc.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 9:02 a.m.


    Typical utah "fan" post by you, focus on my reply but completely ignore the utah "fan" I was responding to. Of course that puts it into context but context did not fit your agenda now did it. Fail.


    Yes...."really". Last I checked a top 5 pick is far above one in the teens. Isn't a top 5 ranking far above one in the teens? Or is a ranking in the teens just as good? I'm pretty sure utah "fans" have been trying to tell us for the last several years how utah's #4 finishes in football are vastly better than BYU's teen finishes during the last decade or are you now trying to tell us it is not? More likely what you are trying to do is employ the hypocritical utah "fan" double standard of rankings only matter when they can be spun to favor utah but they are meaningless when they favor BYU. Nice try but fail.

  • CalJac LOS GATOS, CA
    Dec. 8, 2013 1:52 a.m.

    Let's face it, BYU will never have the same caliber of athletes as Utah, since its academic standards are so much higher. Most of the high draft picks from Utah would have never been admitted at BYU, let alone remained academically eligible. Let's not even talk about the honor code. So having two 1,000+ rushers against this year's schedule is outstanding. Even the top 10 teams in the country had some patsies on their schedule, so I don't buy "they did it against ID State" arguments.

    Considering the restrictions BYU has in its academic standards and its honor code, and the high integrity that the coaches run the program under, the accomplishment of being independent with a strong schedule and the ESPN exposure is outstanding. The fact that they continue to have successful bowl eligible seasons is icing on the cake.

    Most schools would love to play on national TV almost every week. Other than Notre Dame, no one else has BYU's deal, not even Bama,Texas, USC, Ohio St, Michigan, Auburn or you name it. This exposure will bear significant fruit very soon. Good things are around the corner!

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:35 p.m.

    If you're having trouble with the six wins over which bowl-bound teams let me help.

    Dec. 24 Hawaii (Honolulu): Colorado State (MWC) vs. MIDDLE TENNESSEE (C-USA)

    Dec. 26 Poinsettia (San Diego): BOISE STATE (MWC) vs. *Toledo (MAC)

    Dec. 28 Pinstripe (New York City): *Notre Dame vs. HOUSTON (AAC)

    Dec. 28 Buffalo Wild Wings (Phoenix): TEXAS (Big 12) vs. Nebraska (Big Ten)

    Dec. 30 Armed Forces (Fort Worth): UTAH STATE (MWC) vs. Navy

    Dec. 30 Music City (Nashville): GEORGIA TECH (ACC) vs. Ole Miss (SEC)

    Impressive that six wins are over teams that are bowl bound.


  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:24 p.m.

    "They would not last a full season in a premier conference. They lack depth and athleticism in many of the skill positions. Stay were you belong byu on the outside looking in."

    Sounds like good advice for your utes...I mean they've PROVEN they don't belong in a premier conference . Maybe they should go back to where they belong...you know where they could only get 6 conference championships in half a century against "sisters of the poor".

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    What isn't the "what if" game is the fact that six of BYU's victories came against teams that will be good enough to be bowling this year. That seems like a team that has put together a very good schedule and has played hard all season long.

    Tough part about the season was losing to two teams that were poor enough to not even qualify for a bowl bid. The Cougs need to beat sub-par teams on their schedule like Nevada, Idaho State, and Virginia (all teams schedule a few of those) and they also really need to win more than one game against top 25 teams like Texas, Notre Dame, and Wisconsin.

    But again beating those six bowl bound teams and adding the upcoming Washington Huskies is a successful season.

    Looking forward to that bowl game against a PAC-10.2 team and another fun season in 2014 with those two sensational sophomores. GO FAST AND GO HARD.


  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    Star will be the defensive rookie of the year. That will be the 2nd Ute with the same accomplishment. Mike Anderson being the offensive rookie of the year. Ansa will be out of the league in 2 years because he can't stay healthy.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 5:43 p.m.

    "drafted as the #5 overall pick, far, far above star lotuleilei."


  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    Pipe dreams by dick Harmon. Byu should try to get back into the mwc. After all they built their reputation by beating the sisters of the poor. They would not last a full season in a premier conference. They lack depth and athleticism in many of the skill positions. Stay were you belong byu on the outside looking in.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    This article was written tounge in cheek - right?

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:51 a.m.


    I see you only managed to capitalize Ziggy Ansah's name but not Star Lotulelei's. Subtle slight. Did your Shift button break or are you just that jealous that Utah had yet another 1st round pick? Also, I doubt anyone would count the 5th pick as being "far far above" the 14th pick. 9 spots is hardly "far far above."

    Checking past drafts I see BYU's last first rounder was Rob Morris in 2000. It had been 13 years since BYU had had a first round pick. I guess that gives you the right to feel insecure since Utah had Jordan Gross go in the first round (8th overall) in 2003, Alex Smith went 1st overall in 2005, and then Star last year. Also, in that time, Utah had six players taken in the second round, several of which have gone on to be Pro Bowlers. BYU had 3 2nd round picks, none of which are still in the league.

    BYU has some things to be proud of and they even do some things better than Utah. But it's very sad to believe they hold any sort of superiority when it comes to the NFL Draft.

  • Bogey Riverton, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    They would have had no where near as many yards in the PAC-12. I am not sure how you would account for that in your story but, that is one glaring point that is missing from the speculation about where these 2 backs would rank in the PAC-12. The yards BYU gained vs. their scheduled opponents vs. a PAC-12 schedule would be significant. That does not take away that they had a great year. Nice runing guys!

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    Re: Blue Husky "When Penn State joined the Big 10, they disappeared."

    Penn St. Joined the Big 10 23 years ago. Not exactly current newsworthy information for any comparison. They joined to avoid the problem BYU faces as an independent today.

    As a member of the Big 10 they have played in and won the Rose Bowl, two Fiesta Bowls and the Orange Bowl, among many others. Not exactly a disappearing act. Everyone knows why they haven't been heard of lately and it has nothing to do with joining a conference.

  • kaspercasey gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    A good article. BYU really needs a light schedule like next year, so maybe they can run the table or come close to it to try to get into a major conference just like utah did for two different seasons.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    It doesn't matter if you don't beat everyone. Seriously, when you're not in a conference, you better win every chance you get to play and BYU just didn't show well this year against VA and that school that was the bottom of the PAC. Those games are MUST wins. The team motto for next season ought to be "FINISH EVERY PLAY", because they were just barely better than good regardless how many yards 2 guys rushed for.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    They would have be #1 fer sure.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    Conference schmonference. BYU is on TV every week. They played high profile games. Their players were seen by the fans of every team they played. BYU is getting more respect than ever. ND and Penn State went to big bowl games as independents. When Penn State joined the Big 10, they disappeared.

    BYU has a much better chance of a big bowl game than most teams in a conference.

    Just win, baby.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    Who are you: "How would they do in a major conference? We'll never know."

    As opposed to the Utes. We know exactly their performance in a major conference, in all sports, three years running. Not pretty.

    And that's before Washington added a football coach who owns Kyle Whittingham and the U.

  • slcftball Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    This is dumb.

    If they were in the PAC and its style of defense, (i am not a Ute troll)....no way they make it anywhere near thier numbers. Have to play 9 as good as or better foes (like ND and Wisconsin). No Idaho staes or weber states or porous Houston defenses.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:26 a.m.


    Fail. Ziggy Ansah got no previous season accolades, no pre season accolades, didn't even start the first several games, was never in a conference at all, and was basically a complete unknown, and all he did was get drafted as the #5 overall pick, far, far above star lotuleilei.


  • cowboy99 South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    I think the independence does the players a huge disservice. Without an individual conference ranking their draft stock it seriously damaged. Take Matt Reynolds heading, into his senior year after 3 years of recognition and awards in the MWC he was being projected as a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick (albeit he was way overrated but that furthers my point). But then BYU goes independent and struggles and with no conference awards he was just another dude on another below average team and he goes undrafted in an epic draft stock free fall.

    As opposed to Star Lotuleilei who got recognition and went in the first round.

    Independence may be helping BYU make more money but it's causing the players to lose tons of money in their future careers.

    But then again College football loves making money at the players expense...

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Next year's team could be very good if BYU can develop a solid offensive line and Anae gets a little more imaginative with his play calling on 1st down and in the blue zone.

    As Y Grad / Y Dad said, an undefeated season likely wouldn't get BYU into the playoff, but it could lead to a high Top 10 finish and establish BYU as a serious contender in 2015, just as BYU's 11-1, #7 finish in 1983 set the table for BYU's national championship run in 1984.

  • KimmyP Granstville, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    While we're playing the "what if" game, let's try this one; what if they were actually in a conference, any conference, so an 11-1 season could mean they actually had a shot at a BCS bowl game. As it stands now, it doesn't matter if they finish 11-1 or 6-6, they go to the same lower level bowl game. While conference teams with 2 or 3 losses are placed in the higher profile bowls.

    So, all we have left at the end of the season is playing the "what if" game.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    How would they do in a conference like the Mountain West Conference? We'll see next year.

    How would they do in a major conference? We'll never know.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Dec. 7, 2013 6:43 a.m.

    Another nice journey of statistical hypotheticals. These guys are great to watch, and I would expect (correct use of the word here, Dick) Hill and Williams would have finished number 1 in the MWC. But against the kind of teams in the PAC 12 and Big 12, they would have never attained this kind of yardage, as witnessed by the games vs. Utah, Notre Dame and Wisconsin.

    The more troubling aspect of this is why our QB needed to run so often. Hill's a great athlete, but I suspect his yardage totals have more to do with not having an offensive scheme that gets Hoffman or Apo open, or that throws to the tight ends or backs. Hill never had time to read the defense and didn't progress much in this aspect over the season. The hurry-up was just a gimmick in the end. Our guys were going fast but couldn't really execute so it was absolutely pointless.

    Can we honestly say the hurry-up led to more points or yardage? If not, then it needs to be junked. There was no advantage because our line and QB couldn't execute.

    Conclusion: the sooner we lose Anae, the better.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Dec. 6, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    Yeah, Tom (and Dick), my son and I are having fun prognosticating too. Bad news, next year is a much less challenging schedule. Good news, should be an offensive dream come true.

    One game at a time, especially teams from Texas, and we just COULD end up undefeated. Still on the outside looking in because of schedule, but causing people to look over their shoulder and say, "who ARE those guys?"

    Then their senior year, we appear to have another decently solid schedule. And a senior quarterback. Plus a running back who should be well on his way to becoming the Cody Hoffman of his class.

    Really can't let no ankle biters wipe the grin off my face!

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Dec. 6, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    Next year will be even better, and their senior year will be off the chart. Good times ahead for the Cougars.