@slcjimmyThen perhaps you should spend a little bit more time making
more thought provoking posts. As for my "becoming involved with posts meant
for others" and you being "an avid ute supporter" perhaps you
haven't noticed you are posting in an article about BYU in the BYU section
of the paper? Now that is just fine with me as I enjoy the inane, delusional,
and generally thouthless posts utah "fans" like yourself routinely post
in BYU articles, but if you are going to suggest others not respond to you maybe
you ought to think about where you are and what you're posting?As I said though I prefer you keep posting as I enjoy responding to posts like
yours, and you "frantically and emotionally" begging me not to respond
just proves I was accurate in my post and you didn't appreciate the fact I
completely obliterated your "point". Keep up the good work!
@Duckhunter...As an avid Ute supporter my retorts to your obvious superior
mental intellect henceforth your handle name are often monitored quite regularly
by the DN staff. My deepest apology to you since my original post was meant for
@cougarsundevil. My recommendation is that you make sure that your college team
@ least belongs to a conference better yet a BCS Conference before becoming
involved with posts meant for others. Lol
@slcjimmyYet you run your mouth when your team has never beaten his
while in the pac 12, has never posted a winning record in the pac 12, has had
increasingly worse records every year it has been in the pac12,and is about to
spend its second straight post season on the couch. lol
@cougarsundevil...Anyone heard from this poster lately? As I predicted weeks ago
ASU is always incapable of winning the big games. A chance for "Roses"
at home yet your team completely no shows! The day is coming soon when Utah will
get the chance to host the championship game & I assure you like many past
big games the outcome will be the same. Ute victory! My suggestion my fellow PAC
12 friend is to not run that big mouth you posses prior to any victories of true
@BCAccording to CBS Sports it is more likely the split will
happen:"While it's not a full-on breakaway from the NCAA
that's coming to college football, the look and feel of the sport will
never be the same...[Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby] later identified that
change as the possible establishment of a so-called “Division 4” of
the highest level of football-playing schools...What we'd been
hearing for those months now seems to be heading for reality. There is going to
be a further subdivision at the highest level of college football. It last
happened in 1978 when FCS (Division I-AA) was created. That relegated 250 or so
schools to the non-revenue purgatory that is I-AA...The message was
as clear as the division between the BCS and non-BCS conferences. ACC
commissioner John Swofford said it could come within six months. Bowlsby said an
NCAA special convention may be needed." -- Dennis Dodd (July 22,
@BCIndy benefits BYU in ways that are far beyond the narrow-minded
view of programs that live in the reflected light of their big conference
brothers.-----------Is that why you've been talking
about joining a big boy conference since the 80s and Indy since 2009?"In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the
conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or
the Pac-10... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their
bowl game." -- Ron McBrideSo it seems now that we beat you
to the PAC-12 you've stopped talking about joining a bigger conference
altogether. How sad!If you think you can make an even 8 team
playoff you are dreaming.BYU has ONE undefeated season with a #104
SOSHave never finished in the top 10 in the BCS eraClass rankings
are on par with #12 PAC-12 teamsOver the last decade class rankings have
dropped from the 30s to 60sNo longer the choice of top instate talentNFL talent has decreased (on par with Washington State)
I am sure that the PAC12 is reconsidering the investment in U and CU. Neither
program has contributed anything financially to the postseason. At least Utah
State and BYU have made financial sense for the respective school and
Well uteology at this point there isn't even a debate about whose been
better served with their new affiliation, BYU or utah. BYU has been to 3
straight bowl games as an idependent, utah has spent 2 straight years sitting on
the couch. BYU has been to the NCAA tourney in basketball 1 year and went to the
NIT final 4 the next in basketball, and looks to be an NCAA team again this
year. utah has been nothing but a basketball loser and has not played in any
sort of post season whatsoever. BYU has won a couple of National Championships
in some of the minor sports and a couple of 2nd place national finishes as well.
utah has, well the womens volleyball team is making the first appearance for
utah in post season play in any sport other than gymnastics. I
don't know about you but I prefer the winning, post season play, and
national championships, that BYU has provided BYU fans with over the last 3
years than the angst and losing utah "fans" have received from utah. But
hey you're in the pac12 right? You get to celebrate all those other schools
accomplishments. Sounds awesome.
@let's rollThat wasn't the point. The point was if Indy
was so great then those teams would still be Indy. Even ND has a five game
contract with the ACC.
"What happens if the Big 5 splits to creates a higher tier of college
football?"Nothing. It's never going to happen.The playoff will expand to 8 teams within 3 or 4 years, then a decent schedule
with an undefeated or one-loss season would put BYU into the thick of playoff
contention.Indy benefits BYU in ways that are far beyond the
narrow-minded view of programs that live in the reflected light of their big
@UteologyIndependence "didn't work" for Miami? They
won their first three national championships as an independent.Didn't work for FSU? They were ranked in the top 5 in the polls each of
their last six years as an independent. Didn't work for Penn
State? Penn State's football program had its heyday (and undefeated
season) as an independent. Need I go on? Being an independent
didn't prevent any of these schools from being national powerhouses in
football.The fact that they ultimately opted to join a conference
doesn't change the fact that they did just fine as independents. And if the landscape of college football changes, BYU is in a great position
to adapt to those changes. And change is inevitable. It's hard to
characterized five conferences as "Top 5" conferences when there are
only 4 seats at the playoff table. If a conference championship doesn't
get you an automatic bid into the playoff, it's hard to say there's
anything special about that conference.If the playoff were this
year, using the ranking, only 3 conferences would be represented.
Since 1976 when D1 was formed, independence has not worked for teams like:MiamiFlorida StatePenn StateGeorgia TechPittBoston CollegeCan't see how Indy benefits BYU in the long
term. What happens if the Big 5 splits to creates a higher tier of college
football? Does BYU still prefer being Indy then?Long term success
requires BYU football to join a Big 5 league.
BYU overachieved this year as it has in most, if not every, year of
Bronco's tenure. He's always had recruiting classes that are ranked
around #50 in the country and his end of season ranking is higher than that
(this year 35).As long as the Y can continue to have geographically
diverse and interesting opponents like this year, I much prefer an independent
schedule. Even being in the Big 12 isn't all that appealing to me; why
lock yourself into playing the same teams every year. For me as a fan the game
is about entertainment and it's interesting to play a wide variety of
opponents.Also, it's time to stop ascribing any importance to
BCS bowls. The BCS is dead after this year. The playoff is the only
competitive part of the game...the rest are exhibitions and like any fan, the
only bowl games I care about are the ones my teams are in. BYU plays
an entertaining and overachieving brand of football. I would enjoy a NC run as
much as the next fan, but I'm not unrealistic enough to expect it or become
apathetic after the first loss of any season.
Independence only works for a select few teams. I dont think it is working as
well as BYU would like. It is nice that they can play Norte Dame but they also
play Idaho. If BYU stayed in the MWC they would have been better off like if
they were in the MWC they could of been playing in the Championship game
tomorrow on CBS. You can't beat the attention that comes with being decent
team in a conference.
I thought this article hit the nail on the head. BYU is good but not great. This
BYU fan believes that with more continuity in offensive coaches and time for
Taysom and Jamal to flourish this team will be great in a year or two. I love
independence right now, even with the 2 for 1s and no conference championships.
I've never watched BYU football or had as much access to them as I do now
and I love it. Does that mean I wouldn't love it if they joined a bigger
conference at some point? Of course I would. But the view from here is far
better than it was in the MWC. The future looks bright...bring in some guys that
can own the trenches like the 80s & 90s lines and BYU will be very tough to
beat for anyone. Lets get to 9 wins this season and then look forward to a big
goose egg in the loss column next year! GO COUGS!
Why would anyone pray for one team to win over another team. It's a game!
God has a lot more important things to focus on than Byu football.
As a Utah fan, I still don't really get the whole independence thing. What,
exactly, is the point of playing a bunch of meaningless non-conference games?
Even ND, who has been independent for years signed a deal with the ACC for an
outside Orange Bowl bid, because they saw that the coming playoff will make
being an independent all but impossible for long term success. I guess there is
now a BCS auto-bid for the highest ranked mid major team, so that's
something right? The Utes are actually making tremendous progress, if you
bothered to watch them at all. They aren't getting blown out anymore and
have beaten the defending conference champion/North Division champion and almost
beat the South Division Champion. I, and I think a lot of Utah fans, always knew
that competing in the PAC would take at least four years, or a full recruiting
I agree with SeeIt...the play calling is horrific. I sat in front of my TV
screen and was calling to next play (run on first down 90% of the time???)...and
if I can do that, so can the defensive coordinator of the other team. Anae was
too predictable during his last stint, so as long as Bronco and Robert are in
charge, mediocrity will be the norm. And as long as mediocrity is the norm, say
goodbye to anything but a third tier bowl game with a funny name.I
also think a conference affiliation with a good conference would be a great
thing...the Big 10 that aren't actually 10 would be good for starters. The
SEC wouldn't have us and the PAC formerl 10 won't have BYU either, so
choices are limited. You can't be counted as a big boy team unless you
play with the big boys...sorry!!!
@Bleed CrimsonAs opposed to a 4-7 record and home for the
holidays?Just like life, we take the bad with the good. There's
nothing like the anticipation of a new season and hoped for new results. I'd suggest that BYU is on track for what it wants to achieve. 8-4
when 13-0 is preferred? Heck, yes. It's better than 4-7 any day.
If the question is do fans wish the Y were back in the MWC playing the same
schools year after year and getting more wins on a smaller stage? I can only
speak for me, but this fan says "no way," especially since all the
Cougars ever seemed to get from most of those fan bases was mockery to outright
hate. Good riddance. Work to get the best athletes we can to buy
into BYU's mission, strive to schedule the best teams and win every game,
and live with the results, but never sell BYU's soul in the hope of
"BCS glory." Remember what the BCS is and why it started. Independence and WCC affiliation legitimately seem to be the best option right
now. I root for BYU BECAUSE of what they stand for, not in spite of it. My
devotion to Cougar nation will only change if that does.
The main thing is that everyone on the team is out there, getting some exercise,
getting some fresh air, and a little bit of much needed recreation, and just
beat UTAH!Cougars for life!!
I've always been a "glass half full" kind of person and am fine
with independence. That doesn't mean I'm wearing the blue glasses or
drinking the kool-aid, however. For BYU to get better, we'll need to
recruit better in the trenches. Our skill players are very capable but they
can't do it alone. Those positions aren't flashy or get attention but
they will make or break your team (look at Wisc. game). This season was hardly
a disappointment for me because I'd have been happy with 6-6 and hoped for
7-5. 8-4 is an overachieving season to me. I don't want "my team"
to have a coach who isn't aiming for an NC while realizing that may be
unrealistic. Why would you play if not hoping to win every game? That's
not arrogant, but it is ambitious. To take the next step, BYU needs to do an
honest assessment and make corrections but we're in a very good place to do
The jist of the article was great about BYU being only a good team but in
reality for the program it is better to take the money, have all your games in
basketball and football on tv and build the program with the larger base that tv
will provide. What parent doesn't want their friends and relatives to be
able to watch every game on tv. BYU has won enough conference titles and going
to a BCS game is great but why would they be a better program if they went and
were still only a good program.
Bleed Crimson:We Cougar fans do not measure the success of a season
based on how we did against Utah. Ute fans used to care about bowl appearances,
and the Utes had a nice bowl game record. Now, though, they obtain all their
satisfaction from their game with the Y and how close they come to winning PAC12
games.It is clear that the "Cougies" rose up against Texas.
An avid BYU fan friend of mine suggested he thinks he might need to lower his
expectations for the football program some in order to not get too down with
these mediocre seasons - I tend to agree. However, we are going to enjoy
supporting our Cougars even if they don't win national championships!.
That said, the team should continue to strive for excellence. I would rather be
in BYU's situation where they are getting great exposure while having
winning seasons against good teams and going to bowl games than be mired in the
dregs of failure as Utah seems to be experiencing in the Pack 12. I like Coach
Mendenhall, but I'm not convinced his approach to football will ever
produce a "great team". I will continue to enjoy the game and try to be
optimistic but keep my expectations in check in an effort not to lose all my
hair (don't have much left as it is). Basketball team looking pretty good
so far though. Go Cougars!
This year's team would likely have done as well in the MWC as Fresno State,
the AAC as Central Florida, or the MAC as Northern Illinois. (Two of those
obviously could have been reality.) I'm glad BYU is independent, because
the record has to stand for itself, with no automatic BCS bid for being "the
tallest midget". BYU is ranked right where it should be, while the rankings
of those other teams are inflated by weaker competition. I'd prefer the
Cougars to build their program into the national scene, rather than have it
prematurely thrust into the spotlight like the BCS debacles of Hawai'i,
Connecticut, and NIU. This has been a good year, a solid building year.
@Wayne Rout et al.BYU's goal, just like every good team, is a
NC. However, of the top 20 teams year in year out, how many of them DO make the
NC game. The playoffs will be better, but how to get into the playoffs.Realistically, does anyone from a team not named Alabama, expect to be in the
NC game? We can all name the candidates: USC, Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Florida
State. Second Tier: Oregon, Stanford, ND, Wisconsin, Michigan.Surprise teams like OkState, Missouri, et al. are flash in the pans.BYU could be a surprise team someday. But BYU's yearly perspective is a
top 20 ranking and a bowl game. Their intent is national exposure. They're
getting that.In short, quit whining. BYU has it good.
"Marge: I should have said 'limit one per customer'. Cletus:
Shoulda' but didna', so hands 'em over."
The article has forgotten to mention the "new" with BYU this year. New
OC, New O, new coaches etc. This was a great year by any standard
considering the newness of everything. It is striking to me as I read these
articles that the media is giving failing grades because the Y is not GREAT all
the time. Who is? Yet at the same time a losing program as defined by lack of
wins, not speculation, is reported to be almost there, a good team that is
making improvement, even though they also have a new OC and O. (Yes I'm
talking the Utes here). Dear media, stop projecting so many what
if's on BYU and incredibly high expectations before you decide the Y has
arrived. Marvel at what they are doing, in the circumstances they are in and
with the honor code they willingly enforce. What BYU does is amazing by any
@the bleederWeak post by you, embarrassingly weak.Most
BYU fans are not "satisfied with the results", like all fans we want
more. But at the same time, and unlike the completely delusional utah
"fans", we also realize BYU is a good team but has room for improvement.
You are correct about them underachieving the last 3 years though, anytime you
lose to a losing bottom feeder program like utah in each of those 3 years you
have definately underachieved. As for "3rd tier" bowl games,
what bowl game is it utah is playing in this year? Which one did they play in
last year?Hmmmmm........sounds like "3rd tier bowl games"
would be a step up for that losing bottom feeder program you are a "fan"
Being competitive on a national basis is still a good thing. IT could easily
turn into a case of being totally uncompetitive. People think that being
invited tot he Big 12 would be great. If they did, more people would be grateful
just to be competitive.BYU has well missed some winnable games the
last couple of years but to continually talk about National Championships is
rediculous. Lets see if BYU can take the next step (go to a BCS bowl) and that
should be their focus. Anything that might happen under a blue moom that occurs
similar to 1984 will be gravy.
Playing lesser teams and insuring ourselves of a bowl game every year is great.
Look what has happened to Utah and TCU. I'm sure if we joined a top
conference, we would dominate it, just like we do the Independant Conference.
"Long-term success in independence requires BYU football to 'Rise
Up"Well the Cougies haven't so far! The last 3 years they
underachieved. Their fanbase seems to be satisfied with the results and just
appearing in a 3rd tier bowl game.
Real Cougar fans run on optimism, not pessimism and skepticizm. Well maybe a
few, but I digress..This is why commentators like ekute will say,
"it sounds like the "fans" are ok with it."It's
a little more complex than that. Yes, we hope for more, we dream of more, some
of us even pray for more, and we are NOT okay with losing, but we ARE okay with
our Cougars, win or lose.Now, back to the koolaid, or optimism.
Next year's schedule is not going to impress anyone, but the flip side of
that is, get past Texas and we COULD well go undefeated. Will it get us into
the play-offs? No. But will it set us up for 2015? Yes, it should.And with a better schedule, and a senior Taysom and Jamaal, this fan will be
right back at the punch bowl, grinning blue from ear to ear. And yes, I am okay
I think until we get someone who is less than predictable in his play calling,
these are the types of seasons we will continually see. When we are inside the
20 at Wisconsin 4 times, and can't score a touchdown, something is wrong.
We need the horses on the line and a coach that really knows what they are
doing. Not some offensive line coach that thinks they an OC. We also need to
scrap this "fast and furious" offense and get back to passing the ball
in the spread. The "read option" is too easy to defend, and it really
didn't work when the other team has superior atheletes. It didn't when
it counted, did it?
@ekute - yeah, I'm ok with BYU, and even better years will really give me a
thrill as a fan. It's better to understand that football is really just a
game, and to know who you are, and have fun and enjoyment with your team, even
if they're good but not great, and have hope for even better things to
come, than to obsess about greatness and have an average team ruin your life
year after year.
I would much more prefer independence over being in a substandard conference
like the MWC. It is boring to be playing the same old lousy schools every year.
I like the fact that we can go to different parts of the country and play a lot
of different schools. I think BYU needs to do an affiliation with a different
conference every 2 years for about 5 games likes Notre Dame does for the games
later in the year.
Not the season I was hoping for, but it could have been a lot worse. Just ask
the tun.I am glad we have a coach who has a national championship as
the ultimate goal. Why would anyone want a coach who didn't aspire to
that. We all know it won't happen next year, even if we go undefeated.
But the year after...............?No matter what happens, I will
always be a Cougar fan.GO GOUGS!
This was the year and byu did what it could and proved that it is what it is,
but it sounds like the "fans" are ok with it. Sammy's comment sums
it up pretty good.
"Good but not Great" is pretty accurate.
Cordon - so you're arguing for an expansion of the 4-team playoff?
I'm perfectly happy with a 4 team playoff. I like how college football
reserves a lot of excitement for the regular season. Under the scenario you
stated, based on this year's schedules easily an undefeated Arizona St.
would be chosen because they played a more difficult schedule than Alabama did.
As long as Anae is calling the plays, as long as we have to recruit nearly all
LDS kids, as long as winning is number 5, we will look at 8 win seasons as
normal. I like independence better than conference play, but BYU will always
be playing tougher teams 2 away and 1 at home. It is going to be tough to win.
I projected this year as 8 wins. I did not expect to beat Texas, but I
certainly thought we could beat Utah. I will never live to see one unbeaten
season let alone two. I think we have to accept things the way they are and
not get discouraged. If we can't recruit offensive linemen, we have no
hope of landing talent in the skill positions. We seem to believe that running
makes a quarterback so the era of landing top quarterback prospects is over.
Creative offense is history. I'll keep my tickets one more year.
caleb in new york"BYU could go undefeated next year and easily
be kept out of the 4 team playoff."True, but with 5 major
conferences, plus Notre Dame, and only 4 playoff spots available, it's an
absolute certainty that at least one major conference champion will be left on
the outside looking in at the playoffs, even if they go undefeated.Who would the selection committee pick if the choices for the final playoff
spot were a one-loss Alabama or an undefeated Arizona State?
Even if BYU were playing against Fresno St. this week, I would still prefer this
year's independent schedule over being in the MWC. Next year might be a
different story, however, because BYU's 2014 independent schedule looks
Any "fan" who becomes apathetic after the first loss of the season
isn't a true fan.The chances of even the most elite teams being
able to play for a national championship are minuscule, but that doesn't
mean true fans become apathetic as soon as their team is realistically
eliminated from the national championship race.There are still
plenty of other worthy achievements that can still be attained, such as Top 25
finishes, 10+ win seasons, and bowl wins, even after the first loss of the
It looks like next years schedule will be rated much lower than 32nd in the
country. UConn, Cal, and Virginia were all 1 or 2 win teams in 2013. Goes to
show that scheduling is difficult - its tough to know years in advance who will
be quality opponents. BYU could go undefeated next year and easily be kept out
of the 4 team playoff.
Couldn't disagree more. BYU would be in the top 25 this year if it had
simply beaten Virginia and Utah. Losing to Notre Dame and Wisconsin on the road
would have been considered predictable. A win against either of those teams on
the road -- especially Wisconsin, would have propelled BYU to the top 20 easily.
That is right on the edge of BCS. I think the writer hear overestimates the
need for a conference affiliation. A lot of eyeballs have been put on BYU and
with the exception of the Virginia game, BYU earned some respect -- even in the
losses on the road. We traveled well. We played good defense (mostly). Our QB
got a lot of exposure nationally as a sophomore. This wasn't the year.
Next year, however, with a win at Texas, BYU could be looking at an undefeated
year and will get all the attention it could ever imagine.
"That's the single-biggest problem of being an independent. One loss
spells apathy for the rest of the season when there's no conference title
to win. "Spoken like an ankle biter.Or like an
objective sports commentator.But not like a fan.I spent
good money, rearranged my Thanksgiving weekend and my work schedule, so I could
see the game in Reno. I've heard Utah fans talk about how cool it is to
have teams like Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, etc come to SLC, and it is cool, but
whoever and wherever the Cougars play, the team in the stadium I care about is
BYU.I agree with most of the points of the article. But
With just a slight improvement in the offense, BYU would have beaten Virginia,
Utah and Wisconsin and/or Notre Dame.Looking forward to Anae getting
more aggressive on 1st down and in the blue zone.
Good commentary and objective. I think it is right on. In fact, Bronco has
even said that he thinks for byu to win a national championship they would have
to go undefeated 2 consecutive seasons. BYU is a good team, but not great and
has not had a great team in quite awhile. But I still love them.
Any author that pretends to speak for BYU fans loses all credibility. He can
only speak for himself.
Nothing like an article to state how mediocre the Cougars are to inspire the
comments. I believe things are going great for BYU. Though there
have been some disappointments, no one likes losing close games, and from the
arm chair QB position it is frustrating to see silly mistakes, but all in all it
has been an entertaining foray into independence. Football is
unpredictable despite the business of measuring every aspect of performance and
predicting outcomes. No one said BYU would instantly be successful in
independence but I'm liking the trends.BYU has been fairly
predictable and the same goes for our rival. For those that want to say an 8-4
season is disappointing and wallow in the losses and what could have been I have
but one thing to say...It's a lot worse 50 miles up the road
and their trend has not inspired a lot of positives.Other
institutions may have brief moments of athletic grandeur, and I am happy for
them, but when it comes to overall recognition... BYU athletics, hand down, is
the state's crown jewel.Go Cougars!