Detroit officially enters bankruptcy

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  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 10:54 p.m.

    Midwest mom. Without sounding too harsh there are a lot of people in Wisconsin that are a lot worse off than your family and probably think they are entitled to part of your retirement. they are without food and clothing and could use a lot more sacrifice than you are willing to give. Do they deserve your retirement? the point is simple. Government tries to do what free markets actually do; it delivers without promising things it can't. Free markets actually can determine what a person actually is worth, which in a teacher's case could be much more than you can receive from a union rep.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    The problem for Detroit was their city fathers and mayors were anti business. So what did business do? they left the city. Thus no tax revenue and large salaries and pensions for police, firemen, other government workers did not help. When government runs the economy as in the Soviet Union, North Korea, Zimbabwe, etc. we have very poor countries and in Detroit a very poor city. Tea Party principles of less government and lower taxes are designed to enhance an economy. They are correct.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    Midwest mom.

    The Book of Mormon also cautions the poor to not lust after riches.

    I don't think any of us want to judge others for what is in their hearts and minds. Rather, we all want a safe, strong, free society to raise our families and have the opportunity to provide for our children and help others.

    This article deals with a bankrupt city. The cause of the bankruptcy was over-extended benefits and pensions. This problem must be dealt with. The contracts must be renegotiated.

    No one is stating that union service is poor, or that workers are lazy. No one is begrudging the poor.

    We must deal with a bankrupt city and the cause.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Dec. 4, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    bandersen: If government never had the authority to negotiate contracts with labor, then they committed fraud. The product of labor has been consumed. I am astonished that so many of you are indifferent towards those who are being robbed of their earned, deferred wages. Would you cheer a burglar or robber in the street? As I said before, the hatred towards working people sickens me.

    The poor are despised for their presumed sloth. The laborer is despised for wanting fair compensation -- they should be content with low pay, but then that makes them poor, so they become despised for that, since only lazy people earn low wages.

    The rich, however, are presumed to be beautifully hardworking and worthy of all they have.

    Did it ever occur to some of you that all the government spending to support the poor is really supporting corporations like WalMart? The nation's largest private employer makes its owners outlandishly rich by oppressing their workers and the rest of us pay for it.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Dec. 4, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    Excuse me, but the way I was raised, liberty is extended to the working man and woman, just as it is to the entrepreneur -- "all [people] are created equal." The laborer is the owner of his/her labor and can participate in the marketplace.

    My family has 30 years experience with teachers' unions. My husband has been greatly involved. Through negotiation, our union made it possible for the district to pay off the school mortgage 2 1/2 years early. We have given back, year after year to protect retirement benefits, which also were reduced, through negotiation, to reflect the ever-tightening budgets. This is what happens when both sides negotiate in good faith, so excuse me if I refuse to drink the koolaid of union bashing.

    Now, since our governor took away union bargaining in 2011, districts are playing hardball. My son was asked to sign a contract without a salary amount (he has left for Minnesota, where he got a $6K raise). Act 10 cost our family $600 from our net. But the next budget surplus did not restore cuts, instead going for political payback.

    Read your Book of Mormon. It is not the poor who wreck society, but the rich.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Midwest Mom: Your contempt for those expressing their belief in liberty and free markets is misplaced. Detroit going bankrupt has everything to do with the events that precipitated it, but nothing to do with the brotherhood of man. Poor public policy does not mean that anyone that disagrees with it is "sickening" or mean or any other epitaph you may use. Detroit promised something that they shouldn't have ever promised because there ability to deliver wasn't built on principles of integrity. If anything, the public officials that went along with it should be held accountable, but other than that, this is a sad consequence of socialistic thought and poor judgement. Government shouldn't be required to "fix" something that they never had the authority to start in the first place.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    Liberals and progressives: Understanding and differentiating between what you believe and what just ain't so would help. I want everyone to be happy, live in a big house with a flat screen tv, and all their bills paid on time and without turmoil and stress, but then I wake up and realize that the real world, with all its ups and downs is better because it is real. It is called life! The longer you point the finger of blame and/or credit to something you probably view as God and I view as Government, you aren't going to be satisfied. My suggestion is to make the world a better place by your individual choices and decisions and leave the rest up to God. Detroit went bankrupt for the same reasons that frustrate you;they thought they could control everything, including the free market, countries, and nations and it backfired, as it always will. The only thing you can do is learn to live within your means, quit promising the world to everyone and let God in on the outcome, rather than point the finger of blame at something he supports, liberty and freedom! Life is good!

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 7:44 a.m.

    Over indulgence of unions and foolish social programs have destroyed a city. This has nothing to do with hatred of working people. Emotionalism doesn't work in the face of facts. Unions, although needed when they began, have become destructive forces today. We can't keep adding programs just because we think of them. We need personal responsibility and reasonable policy decisions. Unions have placed their friends in positions of power and then raided the public coffers for their own benefit. This has to stop.

    Detroit is a classic example and a microcosm of why big-brother government doesn't work. Let's learn the lesson before Obamacare and the Left completely destroy this country.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 7:26 a.m.

    This is directly related to unions.

    Unions, under arbitration and negotiations, obtained very good compensation packages for city employees and workers. It was all good until the 2008 market collapse. Funds were insufficient to fulfill contracts.

    Now, if you read the article here, you'll see that the unions want the Detroit bankruptcy thrown out of court, and the city liable to pay what was negotiated.

    I agree that contracts should be honored. But in this case the city is BANKRUPT.

    Unions and employees will have to renegotiate their compensation, as Scott Walker did in Wisconsin, as the Utah legislature did, as New Jersey has done, and I'm sure other states have done.

    Do some research into the crazy salaries some of these city employees were earning. Not balanced.

    I am not against workers, nor city employees, nor all functions of government. I am not against the stock markets, or contracts.

    The realities are that unions will be required to renegotiate. Again, read the article. Under dispute is whether the city has already shown a good-faith effort towards renegotiating. Unions say "No", the city says "Yes".

    The cities that are in good financial shape are those that were wise.

  • On the other hand Riverdale, MD
    Dec. 4, 2013 7:04 a.m.

    @TRUTH, I find your comment short-sighted. It's not the garbage collectors, the police officers, the EMTs, the road crews, etc. who mismanaged city finances. These people have served their city in good faith and fulfilled their side of a bargain. For the city of Detroit to renege on their side as a convenient way to get out of debt would be an affront to the very people who devoted their working lives to keeping the city running.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Dec. 4, 2013 6:50 a.m.

    The hate toward the working people on this website sickens me. I'd try to correct the mendacity, but it would be casting pearls.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2013 6:47 a.m.

    We have several issues being mixed here that are not connected. This case has nothing to do with a living wage nor does it really have anything to do with unions. This case is simply about an entity, Detroit city, that was very foolish with their money for years and years.
    Detroit politicians promised things year after year that had no way of ever coming to pass and the point in time came that the promises caved in. It might be the place of the state of michigan to help out but it is definitely not the place of the federal government to bail them out.
    Those that got them there should pay and not the rest of us, we have our own issues. It is time to be accountable.

  • JLFuller Boise, ID
    Dec. 4, 2013 12:36 a.m.

    It seems that there is an end to other people's money as speculated by the late Margret Thatcher. We see it here. But I bet the Democrats, socialists and other hardest-of-hard-core trade unionists only look at this as a betrayal rather than a just end to their unjust fleecing of the taxpayers. Tax payers should not have to support bloated un-American leftist union oligarchs. However locally controlled collective bargaining should be a right.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 3, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    Lots of cities have unions and pensions but don't go bankrupt. I think the problem is more complex than most tea-partiers think.

  • PDXClimber Portland, OR
    Dec. 3, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    Global competition and a lack of inventiveness did in the US car market, NOT the Unions.
    Don't you remember that in 2007-8 GM/Ford/Crysler had almost NO fuel efficient vehicles ready? Not smart and lack of vision.
    Change happens. How we respond to the change is what makes the difference. Yes there is Global competition. But we can still pay a living wage.
    The fact that there are less and less living wage jobs is why the government is being asked to pony up. Where else does an American get the means? You work 40+ hours a week and still have to choose from paying the rent or feeding the family. This is a nightmare shared my almost 1/2 the US.
    The situation out there is horrendous and The Market is NOT helping. You are a fool if you believe it ever will.
    Wages have to go up. Unions are the way that will happen. As people remove the blinders and quite listening to the talking points (because you can't pay your bills with right wing outrage) Unions will be returning to offer those people a place at the bargining table

  • GrinOlsson Ketchikan, AK
    Dec. 3, 2013 7:50 p.m.

    As an American, we question our cities, state and federal government need for our tax dollars. Many times we angrily ask why do they go so far into debt? Then, I note we give Islamic nations like Pakistan over 6 billion dollars to "like us better". I would prefer them to continue to dislike us, and use the money to pay off our city debts. This is my opinion, and that is the way it is!

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 3, 2013 5:30 p.m.

    Once again the Democrats and liberals have misled American citizens. They promised that union members would receive exorbitant pensions and benefits...that the cities could not afford.

    And now that everyone recognizes that cities are going bankrupt, what do the unions do? They don't renegotiate for the good of the community. Instead, they behave with greed and careless abandon towards the citizens who pay for their pensions! The unions take the cities to court.

    Now apply actual events of bankruptcy, due to Democrats and unions, to Obamacare and other programs that are bankrupting our country.

    Now ask yourself...why do we keep electing these people who are causing so much destruction?

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 3, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    Unions and Democrats bankrupted Detroit....its only fitting that those who soaked the city pay the price for the insolvency... good job judge!