@ Chris B.Your recruiting argument is valid for now, but Utah this year
is2.59 stars2.63 for BYU The Pac-12 losing is affecting
recruitingBYU and Utah still have some great recruits out there they may
get though so it could change.
christyLast 5 years Texas has had average 3.8 star recruiting
classes, which is on par with Alabama, and dwarfs Stanford, Utah, and BYU. Texas signed substantially more 5- and 4-star recruits (63) in the last
5 years, than Stanford, Utah, and BYU COMBINED (46)!2010 through
2014 Recruiting ClassesTexas 3.8 (5 5-star; 58 4-star)Stanford 3.4
(3 5-star; 25 4-star)Utah 3.0 (0 5-star; 12 4-star)BYU 2.6 (0
5-star; 6 4-star)Utah barely slipped by Stanford in 2013.BYU
stomped Texas in 2013 and lost at Texas by a single point in 2012.And, before you bring up coaching, let's not forget that Texas is coached
by Mack Brown, the same coach who coached Texas to a National Championship win
over Pete Carroll's Trojans in 2005.So how does your
"stars" narrative account for Texas's 5-7, 8-5, 9-4, and 8-3
records the last four years?Here's a clue: Great
teams don't just have good talent and good coaching, they also have
intangible qualities that are IMPOSSIBLE to measure - "team chemistry"
and "team leadership".Talent matters, but not nearly as much
as you claim it does.
lonestar,What deserves an LOL is byu fans making things up. Here is
a quote from me on a recent article about recipe for success and how Stanford
built their program:"Some food for thought:Last 4
years Alabama has had an average 3.7 star recruiting classesUtah 3.0 byU 2.6Yes, stars matter. Any individual kid can obviously be a
hit or miss, but OVERALL the recruiting services get it right. And YES,
its' better to have better players"Apparently I acknowledge
fully rating services are not perfect.But stars matter!If you don't think so, Nick Saban apparently disagrees since he's
getting the highest average stars in the country.LOL
@scenic viewOf the six teams mentioned two of them will be out for
revenge for the defeat they were given by the Utes. And yes I do know I can
actually watch teams like these play against teams other than Utah. And I do
follow those games because the results affects the Utes. If we did not play
them regularly I would be less inclined to watch them on TV as the fans of so
many other teams must do.
whoamiser?The 2013 season isn't even over, yet I see Utah fans
are already drumming up whiny excuses for another losing, bowl-less season next
year?You do realize, don't you, that you can actually watch
teams like Oregon, UCLA, USC, ASU, Stanford, and Michigan play real competition,
without the angst of watching the Utes provide nothing but the cannon fodder?
@duckhunter"Yes it is better to have an SOS in the 30's and
have a winning record and go to a bowl game than it is to have a #1 SOS, lose
most of them, and sit at home."I think next years schedule is
taylor made for each fan base. BYU fans will get home games against
Virginia, Houston, Nevada, UNLV and Savannah State. (Combined 2013 win loss
record of 22 wins 38 losses) Throw in games with UConn and Cal (3 wins 20
losses in 2013) and BYU has "assured" bowl eligibility. What an
accomplishment.Utah fans will have home games against Oregon, UCLA,
Arizona, Washington State, Fresno State, and, yes, Idaho State. (combined 2013
46W 26L - 2 top 20 teams) Throw in away games at Michigan and Stanford (I
planned to go to both), USC, Arizona State, Oregon State, and Colorado and 6
wins would be incredible! BYU fans can claim another bowl game, and
perhaps a 10 to 12 win season. Utah fans will have seen Utah play, what,
7-8 better teams than BYU will face in their bowl. Would Utah fans change
anything? A poll said 101 fans would keep PAC-12 affiliation, 1 would go back
to MWC! "Nuff said"
CougFaninTXAccording to Sagarin's SOS ratings, 2013 was
BYU's 3rd toughest SOS, although BYU was much more successful this time
around.2004 #11 5-6, beat Notre Dame2003 #14 4-8, beat Georgia
Tech2013 #32 8-4In 2004, BYU played #1/#1 USC(13-0), #4/#5
Utah(12-0), and #12/#13 Boise St(11-1).Even so, BYU came within a
whisker of qualifying for a bowl, 5-6, losing at Boise St 27-28 after a missed
chip shot field goal at the end of the game. Under today's rules, adding a
game against a Big Sky team would have made BYU bowl eligible.
christy"Anyone who thinks that rankings truly take into account
strength of schedule don't understand football."Yet
"star ratings" of high school football players and SOS ratings are
infallible?LOL at your biased inconsistency.The truth
is, ratings, in your mind, are only valid when they favor Utah.
I don't see how any objective follower can say that Utah had a more
successful season than BYU or USU.Utah looked like a good team early
in the season when Wilson was healthy, but once he was injured, they played
about like you'd expect a back up to play. I believe USU or BYU could have
beaten the Utes in the 2nd half of the season.USU exceeded
expectations, especially after loosing Chuckie. Playing in the MWC title game
is quite an accomplishment.BYU struggled early with new coaches,
young players and a new offensive scheme; but got better as the year progresses.
I don't know how anyone can complain about the schedule. Sure I'd
love to have a do over against Virginia or Utah, but overall a good season
against the toughest schedule in school history.
I didn't say they had a terrible season.They were competitive in
games and showed improvement with an injured qb.They had a decent season I
have said that all year.
@2fer washington state is ok, not "pretty good". I do think
the pac12 is fairly balanced in the top 6 but the bottom 6 are either bad, like
cal, colorado, and utah, or merely ok like arizona, osu, and wsu. You cannot
make a serious claim that any of those bottom 6 are "pretty good". And for that matter the top of the pac12 is only above average, evidence
of that is the fact they have all lost to some pretty poor teams with the
exception of asu. Also the pac12 has basically not one single top quality OOC
win. The one they do have, asu's defeat of wisconsin, is highly tainted.
Outside of that none exist.Of course you will disagree and that is
fine so I'll throw you this bone, let's see how the pac12 fairs during
bowl season. If the conference is over .500 in bowl games then I will give them
more credit with one caveat, it can't be the bottom pac12 teams beating the
mwc, cusa, and other low level teams while the top pac12 teams lose. The top
pac12 teams need to win most of their bowl games.
@ Gone fishinThe bottom of the PAC, save CU and CAL, is still pretty
good. Washington St. proves that. They are pretty strong this year.
@who am i"This years Ute schedule was ranked the most difficult
in the nation and I would expect next years would be ranked about the
same!"Ok....so now what? Another losing record and bowless post
season? Probably. I don't understand why this is some sort of badge of
honor for utah "fans", you lost to just about everyone on that schedule.
If utah has a top 5 SOS year after year then utah "fans" are going to be
enduring a lot of 4 and 5 win seasons. Let me clue you in, no one
cares what utah's sos was. Alabama doesn't care, Ohio St doesn't
care, Auburn doesn't care, usc doesn't care, and BYU doesn't
care. No one cares. No one gives you a bit of credit for it when you lose most
of the games. Yes it is better to have an SOS in the 30's and
have a winning record and go to a bowl game than it is to have a #1 SOS, lose
most of them, and sit at home.You utah "fans" can brag/whine
about it until the end of time but no one cares.
Jazz smack, and yet byu fans are already bragging about their basketball RPI
which gets a bump from good ranked teams you LOST to. Sorry, can't have it
Be"smart" yes Utah had a terrible season. All utes have been admitting
it all year. Where have you been?
@besmary? If you follow the thread(which I recommend) you will see that Chris
was answering how Utah was deemed to have a harder schedule than cal. Or were
you just to trying to argue, even if he was right?
What Chris B doesn't take into account is:SOS does not matter
if you lose.SOS only matters if you win.
Talk about SOS. Utah lost to WSU who is just as bad as they are and yet they
seem to ignore that loss....and they barely beat an even worse Colorado team at
RES. SOS my eye!! Please just admit it ute fans, the utes are not as good as
you think they are. SOS means nothing when you can't even beat the bottom
teams in the conference.The national experts have spoken......so let
it be written.Now that the ute football season is over, thank goodness,
can we talk basketball?
Besmart,You don't think 5-7 is a horrible season?Lol!
@ ArgoFYWeek 6 and loss #??? (You forgot to give the whole story.
@ Dallas RealistNicely done. Thanks for being honest. Utah is ranked
#33, Washington State #34 and Oregon State #36. Does that mean Utah is better
than OSU or WSU? Of course not, they lost to them. I have no problem admitting
that! I'm not sure why so many BYU fans struggle with that concept?
It's because it's Utah; plain and simple. Have a good evening Guy!
That's easy.........all out of the top 25."head to head
doesn't cut it"Now that's funny right there. By a show
of hands, who thinks BYU is the best?Raise your hands high now, and
keep 'em up.........
Just like Nick Saban, Stanford didn't want to be there either. Oh, and can
anyone argue about that powerful Pitt team? Sounds like the stars aligned just
perfectly. Oh well, enjoy caroling this holiday season. THere's no place
like home for the holidays CB.
As a die-hard BYU fan I would have to say that Utah is the best team in the
state. They beat Utah State and BYU. I'm not sure how well BYU would have
done this year against the Pac-12 schedule. They lost their two biggest games
(wiscy and ND). they lost to a lowly Virginia team . The only decent win BYU has
this season is against Texas. Maybe I'm wrong but we will see what happens
when BYU plays a Pac-12 team in the bowl game
@Razzle2"The Y's schedule looks tough enough next year to
be nationally recognized"No question you are right. Every
schedule will be "nationally recognized". But how difficult it will be
is another question. Hard to say which games are the easiest: Connecticut
(2-9)*; Virginia (2-10); California (1-11); or someone called Savannah State
(1-11). Now throw in 4 MWC teams; Add MTSU (8-4; Houston (8-4) and that leaves
Texas (8-3) and UCF (10-1). I would expect Phil Steele will rank this schedule
somewhere in the 65-85 toughest schedule in his preseason analysis. (Save this
an tell me how wrong I am next August!)This years Ute schedule was ranked
the most difficult in the nation and I would expect next years would be ranked
about the same! Night and day difference!*current 2-13 record
Yep, Utes going downhill and a few more unemployed BYU grads. Same old story.
PAC,Doing a little research? That's a good one coming from a y
fan. Since you love the Sagarin SOS ranking so much, tell me where Utah ended up
on the list this year? I'll give you subtlety points for spinning
byu's direct ranking, and not Utah's, but sill an 'F'
overall. I guess at this point, you'll take whatever makes the independence
pill easier to swallow.
anti BCS "a Top 10 finish would put BYU right into the thick of playoff
candidates. With an undefeated season against a schedule like BYU had this
season, the Cougars would be a virtual lock for a playoff berth."Sorry. Yes, we had our toughest schedule, but BYU didn't play anyone that
finished in the top 20. We would have to go undefeated just to be considered in
the top 10 at the end of the year. A lock is not certain with a biased selection
committee. Especially without a conference championship.Look how
they are overlooking Michigan State (only lose to Notre Dame) and they are in
the Big 10. They are debating Ohio State right now because they want the SEC.
'Bama and Missouri didn't even play each other (weakest schedule in
the SEC) and they are still going to put 'Bama in a BCS bowl.The only lock with a high ranking goes to N.D. and they are losing their
privilege this year. A simple change in a few games and N.D. is in the ACC. BYU would strengthen the Big 12. They need each other. I'm sure
they can see the writing on the wall.
@ Chris B:That sure was a wordy way of using the same old excuse of
"what a tough schedule we had". No one feels sorry for Utah and none of
the national pollsters and ranking services accept that as an excuse. Schedule
is taken into consideration... especially with the Sagarin rankings. Yes, Utah was good during the early season but then flamed out. You can't
keep riding those first few games forever. If you try to, you will keep falling
in the polls. That's exactly what Utah has done. Yes, Utah was
better that USU and BYU early on. But since then, they've given no
indication or evidence that they still are. None.What do some Ute fans
know that none of the national experts and observers don't?Consider this... Utah fans are obviously biased... like fans of every other
team is. But the national experts who create the polls and rankings are not.
They have no reason to be. They look at the big picture, including SOS, and then
decide.Didn't you tell us at the end of last season the same
thing as now... that the future looked rosy for the Utes?
@chris B,The only thing "rosy" I see about Utah is that they lose
more and more games each season. If the trend continues (and what makes you
think it will change?) the Utes will continue to be bottom dwellers in the Pac
12 unless by some miracle Salt Lake City becomes more like Pasadena, Los
Angeles, Tempe, San Francisco, or Seattle. If I'm a stud high school
football player, I'm choosing the above over the Utes...
Cowboy DudeThe only viable Big 5 conference for BYU to join would be
the Big 12; except for bowl tie-ins, Independence is superior to conference
membership in a non-Big-5 conference.With 5 major conferences and
only 4 playoff spots available, it's an absolute certainty that the 4-team
playoff will be quickly expanded to 8 teams within a very short time.At that point, a Top 10 finish would put BYU right into the thick of playoff
candidates. With an undefeated season against a schedule like BYU had this
season, the Cougars would be a virtual lock for a playoff berth.
Condi Rice has admitted that conference championships will be one of the factors
in the new playoff selection system. She also admitted that an undefeated team
from a weaker conference will have to be weighed against one-loss teams of a
stronger conference.In other words, conference bias.I
expect Notre Dame to join a conference this winter. BYU let's get some
interviews right away.
ArgoFYBefore spouting off, next time invest a couple of seconds
doing a little research.BYU's 2013 schedule is ranked #32 by
Sagarin; that's MUCH tougher than any schedule in Utah history, prior to
this season, including Utah's 2004 (#67) and 2008 (#56) schedules, which
pale in comparison.When was the last time Utah beat SIX bowl-bound
teams that won at least 7 regular season games during the same season?Hint: NEVER!
christyI've said 3 things since the beginning of the year:1. Utah would beat byu and usu - CHECK2. Utah would go 8-4 or 9-3(almost
a guarantee at this point)3. The winner of the Utah/UCLA game would win
the Pac 12 South---------RichDaddyWell, you
got one right.---------Coincidentally, christy's
one of three record is the same as Utah's one of three record in the PAC (9
of 27) and Utah's one of three bowl seasons since joining the PAC.
Soft schedule, soft schedule, soft schedule!I know, it's not
going to make a difference, because the ignorant will still continue to spout
that line regardless, but...BYU did NOT play a soft schedule this
season. Their schedule was ranked in the 20s for most of the season. That is
not soft. Most BCS conference schools have weaker schedules than BYU.Just stop it already.
Fans care about rankings. Players and coaches care about W's. You
can't really blame BYU or USU for their schedule. They have to play
who's on it and let the results speak for themself. BYU will always be
limited due to the exclusion from a major conference and the number of non-LDS
kids who won't go to Provo. They'll beat Utah or other Pac 12 schools
every once in awhile given the right circumstances. I expect Bronco to continue
to pump out 8-10 victories a year against a soft schedule for as long as he
wants to continue coaching. Utah will continue to pump out anywhere from 5-9
wins a year and maybe just once or twice in our life time we'll experience
the Rose Bowl. Nothing wrong with those results for any of our Utah schools.
It's a great place for college football!
@Ed Grady"Pac-12 Proud! What a joke"Very true.
With the only bigger joke being independence proud. byu tries to pad their
schedule with the likes of Idaho St., Middle Tennessee and Virginia (loss),
while Utah has to pad their schedule with Utah St. Weber St. and byu. byu deems possibly playing Arizona as a successful season. What does Utah call
it? Week 6.
christy"Anyone who thinks that rankings truly take into account
strength of schedule don't understand football."See Utah
Hey ChrisBOn September 23rd I wrote it down:I've said 3
things since the beginning of the year:1. Utah would beat byu and usu -
CHECK2. Utah would go 8-4 or 9-3(almost a guarantee at this point)3.
The winner of the Utah/UCLA game would win the Pac 12 SouthWell, you
got one right.
This year is over. I would say UState had the best year because they exceeded
expectations. All three programs look into a somewhat cloudy future. BYU must
still deal with independence. There is both good and bad with that. I love the
TV part because I live on the east coast. I don't love the schedule, but
over time it should improve, or finally a conference will accept them for who
they are and what they can bring (there is a lot more than just football).
UState has to find a way to keep getting solid recruits and be able to hold on
to good coaches. The U has to deal with being in the PAC 12. Last 3 years 4-5,
3-6, 2-7, x-x what is the next number in the sequence? I have said recruiting
will be their biggest problem. Too many other choices for the California kids,
and when they don't see a winning program, facilities and other things
won't overcome that. So each program knows what they need to do this
off-season and during the coming years, who will get it done. I hope all three
find there way because in the end we all win!
CB,The future of Utah is NOT rosy. it is more like "couchy" Like
where they will be sitting this year, and next year, and the year after that,
etc. Do you see a trend?
The rankings are all wrong. The utes should be #1 in every category. The
national experts are nuts and clearly do not understand college football. They
should have consulted with Chris B before putting out their rankings.NOT. So we see that despite the fluke in Provo this year BYU and USU ARE the
two best teams in the state his year, as well as last, and the year before, etc.
Pac-12 Proud! What a joke.
@ Chris B.Northwestern finished the season 5-7 and lost a lot of close
games in the Big 10 then beat a terrible Illinois team to finish 5-7 and be 9th
in a conference of 12 teams.Sound Familiar? So the U had a terrible
razzle,Cal didn't play Arizona State for one. And Northwestern
turned out to have a horrible season. Not sure whats so confusing to you?
Hawkeye79 "Nine PAC-12 teams still managed to win 4+ conference games this
year. Only three teams didn't appear to belong."So, that
would make the PAC-12 tougher than the SEC right?
How does Utah have the toughest schedule in the country? CAL played Washington
instead of Colorado plus Ohio State and Northwestern.Did BYU &
Utah State make the Utah schedule top CAL?
The experts are wrong even though they are experts because we won byu and we are
in a prestegous conference and that makes us more prestegous than byu so we
should be ranked better than byu so the experts are wrong with rankings.Go Utes!
It's crazy to compare Utah's PAC-12 experience to BYU's
Independence. Utah walked right into tough Novembers in the first year but BYU
has not had a team to play in November until this year with Wisconsin and Notre
Dame (they lost both). The Y's schedule looks tough enough next
year to be nationally recognized and the U's schedule just gets tougher
with Fresno State, Michigan, Stanford, and Oregon. As a Ute I am looking forward
to the Fight Hunger Bowl and plan to go to the game...and wear my once a year Y
Kudos to the Aggies for putting together a great season and not letting the loss
of their quarterback (whose name had come up in Heisman discussions) derail
"Sure, we lost a whole lot this year...but at least we played good teams,
right?"The student who takes an honors course and botches most
of the assignments still fails the class. When that happens, teachers will
usually give a recommendation that the student may not be ready for an honors
course.Nine PAC-12 teams still managed to win 4+ conference games
this year. Only three teams didn't appear to belong.
Ute fans know BYU is Utah's bowl game. Kyle is a great MWC coach. Give him
some time and he can scheme with the best of them. However, week in and week
out, his hyper competitive coaching wears on his assistants and players.
@ Chris B.Utah traded SOS for a bowl game. Good trade.
Regis... It's called "winning the battle, but losing the war".
I love USU's winning trend. Six years ago many believed that
the Aggies football program couldn't be turned around. When Coach A left
many believed that the Aggies football program would again become mediocre.
When Chucky Keeton was injured the doubters thought USU would have a losing
season.USU football program is here to stay and winning is what
Aggies have come to expect. Coach Wells should be MWC coach of the year. Even
with major injuries the Aggies continue to play well. I love my Aggies!
"Utah played USU and beat them. Utah played BYU and beat them. And neither
BYU nor USU would have fared any better than 5-7 against the schedule Utah
played. So, despite a disappointing season, the Utes at least proved they are
the best team in the state of Utah."The Utes at least proved
they WERE the best team in the state of Utah, AT THAT TIME, and the rankings, at
that time, showed that. These are week 14 (current) rankings. No
worries, it is okay to live in the past!
Utah played USU and beat them. Utah played BYU and beat them. And neither BYU
nor USU would have fared any better than 5-7 against the schedule Utah played.
So, despite a disappointing season, the Utes at least proved they are the best
team in the state of Utah.
Anyone who thinks that rankings truly take into account strength of schedule
don't understand football. Those who think that must believe that Northern
Illinois is truly a better team than LSU, Oklahoma, UCLA, Wisconsin, Georgia,
Texas A&M, and Texas, among others. And no one thinks that Oregon, Clemson,
ASU are only slightly better than Northern Illinois, which would be the
conclusion just by looking at rankings. If northern Illinois played
any one of those teams, I highly doubt they would be favored. Sooner or later,
sure you have to put them in the rankings, but I don't think anyone really
thinks they are one of the best 14 teams in the nation. Having the
hardest schedule in the entire nation is a near impossible task. I wonder what
the typical record is for teams who have the hardest record in the nation? Even Alabama would have lost a couple most likely with out schedule.
No, I've said nothing of moral victories.It just
means with beating Stanford and hanging until the final second against ranked
ASU, ranked UCLA, ranked OSU, means that Utah fans don't need to worry
about our future. Its rosy.Go Utes!
The experts have spoken. Mark it down, accept it and move on.