Support of lion hunter draws death threats to Utah hunting group

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  • SittingReading Sandy, UT
    Dec. 2, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    @Stalwart Sentinel
    Be careful on you logic train there. If we follow Kipling's Law of the Jungle, the two reason to kill are to Eat or to prevent from being Eaten. Wildlife will kill for the sake of staying alive. If a prey animal can kill it's predator, that animal dies and rots.

    So if you feel that Hunters should have the same risks as the animals they hunt, then by your logic they should be allowed to kill those who threaten them. I don't think organizations like PETA want that. Of course, your hoping for cold blooded murder more than actual hunting right? Cause the death threats couldn't be limited to other sites. We better make sure they made them here too.

  • Prodicus Provo, UT
    Dec. 1, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    @Flashback: so agency means there is no standard of morality, only human laws? Whatever is legal is justified?

    Samson's lion roaring against him seems a case of self-defense rather than trophy hunting, and besides, choosing Samson as your exemplar and moral compass is a really bad idea.

    @MemoFromADemo: use is not the criterion. Prudent use according to necessity for survival is the criterion. Trophy hunting is neither necessary nor a prudent use of resources. Instead it is killing for the delight of killing and for the opportunity to boast, which the prophets have consistently denounced both as an abuse of Creation and as likely to desensitize many of our other moral sensibilities.

    @Lledrav: attitude is important, but attempting to be thankful as we use God's gifts in ways that contravene bounds the Lord has set will not justify us.

    JoCo Ute is closer to the right idea. He recognizes a distinction between ethical and unethical hunting and uses hunting as a means to provide for needs. If done prudently (sustainably) and sparingly, this can be OK from a gospel standpoint. (Average American meat consumption levels are anything but sparing, and are devastating the environment.)

  • Crockett123 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 30, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    Little known is the fact at the animal shelter operated by PETA at their main headquarters in Virginia Beach – PETA kills almost all of the 2000 unfortunate pets taken in every year! How hypocritical is that?

    Also – animal rights groups have been infiltrated in various areas of the country and the observations include three constants found among the people making up these animal rights groups.

    1 – They are highly emotional people -- essentially ruled by their emotions to the point of being emotionally unbalanced. Their opinions are formed by their emotions rather than by their intellect – even by the most intelligent of them.

    2 – A large percentage of them are considered mentally ill.

    3 – At the root of the animal rights philosophy is a deep, human self-loathing.


  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    Hey Prodicus, last time I looked people have agency. So if they want to hunt animals in Africa, and it's legal, I don't see the problem. I don't recall Spencer W. Kimball saying "Thou shalt not hunt and your eternal exaultation is at risk if you do." My reading of the scriptures says that Sampson killed a lion for no reason than it was there. I personally wouldn't go to South Africa and hunt animals. I'd take pictures. But, I don't begrudge anyone that does.

    Anyone wonder why PETA is listed as a terrorist organization by the USDA. Death threats are just plain not right. I'd say, and I'm judging now (remember that the Book of Mormon allows me to), that threatening to kill someone is a way greater sin than shooting a lion for sport.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    Trophy hunting fir lions is only acceptable if you go out with just a knife.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 2:37 a.m.

    It is pretty telling that people who are outraged at killing animals are so totally in support of killing people.

    Are PETA and their supporters also anti capital punishment? I assume they think we should never kill people who have killed people...and yet, the act of killing animals results in death threats against people?

    How ludicrous and hypocritical can a group of people get.

  • MemoFromA Demo SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:46 p.m.

    Two thoughts:

    One) Anyone who tries to use the religious card to say that killing animals is not of God, isn't reading their scriptures. There is no sin to kill animals as long as the animal is being used for food and for raiment. I suspect that every morsel of meat from the lion that was killed was harvested and gratefully used by the native people.

    Two) In the African countries where hunting wild game is permitted, the wild animals herds are numerous and healthy throughout the many hunting preserves. The preserve owners carefully regulate the preserves and patrol to ensure against poachers. In the African countries where hunting and harvesting of wild game is illegal, the numbers of wild game throughout the country are far fewer because the governments of those countries are far less effective at managing their herds and guarding against poachers.

  • Kronk Blackfoot, ID
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:26 p.m.

    The issue here is not hunting. It is making death threats against people. Some support hunting, some don't. But death threats against people are always wrong and usually hurt your own cause, whether those death threats are against hunters you don't like, religions you don't like, politicians you don't like, nationalities you don't like, practices you don't like, or whatever. Civilized people discuss their differences. Criminals make death threats.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    "I like that, we shouldn't blame PETA for something that there is no evidence they or it's members were involved....yet the NRA is blamed for every gun death."

    and two wrongs make a right? I really hope you are not sharing this reasoning with your children.

  • Lledrav West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    to Prodicus
    As with many things its how its done and whether or not Gods hand is acknowledged that determines if its right or wrong. Many good LDS leaders and people have been hunters, including Wilford Woodruff and Thomas Monson.

    I personally have learned that God definitely acknowledges our appreciation for his creatures and He appreciates our thankfulness for them even as we use them.

    ....the fullness of the earth is yours, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air,
    all things which come of the earth, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;

    Now go enjoy your turkey and thank God for it and for the person who killed it for you.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    Lions are not endangered. They are HIGHLY protected because without them, the game preserves would collapse. And they're a "randy" species capable of prodigious population growth. Find another excuse to get emotionally overwrought about those mean old hunters.

  • OldSalt94 Murray, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    I like that, we shouldn't blame PETA for something that there is no evidence they or it's members were involved....yet the NRA is blamed for every gun death.
    I wonder what our country would look like if we allowed all animals to flourish in their natural habitat. How many cities would be limited in size to protect those same habitats. Would we encourage population control of human life so animals can be more important. Every thing is important to life on earth. We were put here to be stewards over our resources, be they air, mineral or organic. We will always have differences in how that is to be managed. I however would hate to have a nest of infectious insects living in my home, or rodents filled with infectious disease. Same with other "game" animals. How many times have I heard the railing about the mess left after large flocks of geese have landed in parks and now we can't recreate there because of the goose droppings. And we complain when the cities hire crews to clean it up because we don't want more government workers, then volunteer and clean it yourselves.
    Take responsibility.

  • Sorry Charlie! SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    so I find it a bit silly that you all wish to blame PETA for something that there is no evidence that PETA or its members were a part of. I also find it really suspicious that the organization leveling the charges is "hunters against PETA." this whole thing (if you will pardon the pun) smells fishy.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    I don't like that she is killing what is probably an endangered species for a trophy kill but I also say death threats against her are way over the top.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    I can't wait until I get to hunt an African Lion, it is on my hunting bucket list for sure.

  • bearfoot silver city grant, NM
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    killing for trophies is sick.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    A deer dies from a hunters bullet. A deer dies of starvation during a rough winter. I will take the first. Nature is cruel. Animals kill animals to survive. It is the world we live in. Yes we can be cruel to animals. I abhor that. PETA should leave ethical hunters alone. Time to go fishing.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:09 a.m.

    The double-standard is on the side of hunters; they hunt but expect not to be hunted. If they act like animals, ought they not meet the same fate?

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 6:57 a.m.

    It appears we have two issues here. One is the propensity to post everything we do onto social media for all the world to see. This alone invites comment from acquaintances and strangers. It should be no surprise that some comments are critical because of the wide audience and varied opinions.

    Another is that there are a cabal of people out there who will threaten or employ violence to further their cause as they see themselves as a cut above the rest of society and it is their right or duty to set the norms or standards for all of us. It is a variation on the theme of " belongeth to us, the elder bretheren to rule this people."

    Hunting is legal, it brings revenue into the state to help manage wildlife habitat, and is necessary as we have diminished or removed natural predators from the scene.

    As to those who quote scripture to defend their point, I would suggest we let the author of all scripture judge the actions of those who some deem to be in violation.

    Today I am PETA. I am a Person Eating A Tasty Animal. Buen provecho a todos.

  • gittalopctbi Glendale, AZ
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:32 a.m.

    What a lame statement by the PETA representative. It took all of her efforts to offer a diluted "condemnation" of violence to all living beings, but still couldn't manage to disguise that she agrees with the threats and condemnation. All debate about hunting aside, any such threats such as putting a gun to someone's mouth and shooting it, and making serious enough threats to cause a family to move should be investigated and prosecuted. More than hunting could ever be, this type of behavior is contemptible, reprehensible, and criminal.

  • JoCo Ute Grants Pass, OR
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:49 p.m.

    Hemlock. . . it was an African lion that Ms. Bachman shot not a Mountain Lion. Anyone or any group supporting "Trophy" hunting should be challenged, but certainly not threatened. As a life long hunter who looks forward to a freezer full of venison every year I totally support consumptive hunting. If the critter has a nice rack or skin after it's eaten that's a bonus.

    But killing for no purpose other than killing, is what gives the rest of us a bad name. Extremists at PETA are way out of line in their condemnation of all hunting.

    Come on Mr.Fackrell let's not give them anymore reasons to attack hunters. To them we are all alike. Take a minute and take a hard ethical look at trophy hunting and realize it is not ethical hunting.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:33 p.m.

    There is never an excuse for intimidation and bullying, especially death threats.

    The name of the organization is Hunters Against PETA. Are they against the protection and ethical treatment of animals? They post pictures on Twitter and Facebook, already knowing that there is going to be an outcry. Why not enjoy their sport within the hunting community? It has plenty of magazines, tv shows, web sites, and blogs. There's 2 sides to this story.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    Lion's are a rather sordid beast. Brutal to the inth degree. A male lion as king of the pride seeks out all male cubs and kills them without mercy. They are also supremely chauvanistic and let the females do all of the work. Then, when the kill is made, they stride in and have their fill.

    As to hunting them... good luck. That's a tough kill. Expensive too employing many locals. Watch your back. I trust the good people of South Africa, Kenya and Tanzania to manage their wild life herds and only allow a small percentage to be harvested, always maintaining the econsystem that is of great value to the locals.

    And that lady who killed the lion -- that took some... Brave lady.

  • Prodicus Provo, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    Have we so soon forgotten the counsel of Joseph F. Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer W. Kimball on the question of hunting? And how can we continue to rationalize away the clear instruction in the Word of Wisdom to only eat meat sparingly and according to necessity?

    In the KSL comments on this news, people harped on exaggerations regarding wildlife management. It's absurd that so many people think hunters are the key to the ecosystem, the only thing that keeps nature working.

    Large mammals, both predators and prey, were doing just fine for millions of years before any humans were around to apply their oh so marvelous wildlife management abilities. Predator and prey populations are self-correcting dynamical systems. Portraying hunting as wildlife management is in essence a ruse to make people feel good, even self-righteous, about their deadly hobby.

    I'm no fan of PETA- their absolutism and their tactics are appalling. But the contempt for the creation of God that has settled into our culture is just as appalling. Zion cannot be built up on such principles; it must be built on principles of stewardship of, love and respect for, and humble cooperation with nature.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:43 p.m.

    While I am in awe at the mountain lion's majesty, the irony of PETA advocating life while also threatening life is not missed. But, it is consistent with PETA's other basic contradictions.

  • Newspaper Reader Highland, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:18 p.m.

    Yet another reason that PETA is ridiculous.