Pope's 'Apostolic Exhortation' seen by many as veer to the left

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  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 3, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    What about that redistribution of Wealth?

    Aboutredistribution -

    Scranton, PA
    Obamaspeaks of wealthredistribution-

    SaintGeorge, UT

    "THE EXPERIENCE OF MANKIND has shown that the people... among whom wealth is the most equally distributed, enjoy the largest degree of liberty, are the least exposed to tyranny and oppression and suffer the least..."

    "ONE OF THE GREAT EVILS with which our own nation is menaced at the present time is the wonderful growth of wealth in the hands of a comparatively few individuals. Our very liberties...are endangered by the monstrous power which this accumulation of wealth gives to a few individuals and a few powerful corporations."

    "If this evil should not be checked, and measures not taken to prevent the continued enormous growth of riches among the class already rich, and the painful increase of destitution and want among the poor, the nation is likely to be overtaken by disaster;...the sure precursor of ruin."

    ~ LDS Church FirstPresidency.

    If Obama is a "Socialist",
    what does that make us?

    BTW -

    the 'trap' that Germany fell into
    was a hatred and discrimination.

    illegal immigrants,
    the poor and the homeless,
    ...the victims of the Holocaust.

  • maclouie Falconer, NY
    Dec. 2, 2013 9:22 p.m.


    I don't have to prove anything. Seldom are things "proved" in posts such as these. Truthseeker did a good job giving you an example if you believe what he posted. If you don't believe then nothing can be proven. Discussions such as these reveal the biases of personal beliefs and lack of familiarity of world events. Obviously, you have forgotten about Joe the Plumber. Again, nothing proven but when someone says "Obama never said it" there is something Roland and Blue (0h! that's you!) has forgotten.

    Truthseeker has posted an example but claims it was taken out of context, I don't know what he is talking about. Obama said in that which was quoted: "I believe in redistribution". Sorry, regardless of the rest of the paragraph, Obama said what he said and he said it many times on other occasions. You don't have to believe it, you just need to get informed. Just as he said there are 57 states. Anybody put that on their resume would not have been hired by me. Only qualified people should be hired for a job.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 9:18 p.m.

    The socialism spin damaged by tea party failure and improving economy. By the way China, soon to be biggest economy is controlled by a communist party that is traced to Mao Tse Tung.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 30, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    Obama does believe in a certain level of redistribution so that people have equal opportunity to fulfill the measure of their creation. He has never advicated for assisting people so they can simply live off the dole.

    Republicans/Conservatives and their sources, of course, have used various methods to distort/misrepresent/lie about who Obama is and what he advocates, including taking selected clips of speeches etc, removed from their context. One such speech was from 1998, when Obama was a Senator. I could not post the entire speech, but this contains a sentence often clipped for use.

    "I think there have to be technical issues that have to be dealt with as opposed to just political issues, how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution, because I actually believe in redistribution, at least at a certain level to make sure that everybody's got a shot. How do we pool resources at the same time as we decentralize delivery systems in ways that both foster competition, can work in the marketplace, and can foster innovation at the local level and can be tailored to particular communities.”

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    maclouie: "Obviously, you have not heard everything Obama has ever said. Unless the audio/video clips were "photoshopped" you are the only one(s) saying he never said that or it's baloney. Even Obama has not denied saying those things about redistribution. "

    Here you had a perfect opportunity to do what the burden of proof in these situations requires of you - to provide the evidence that you claim you have, but you didn't.

    I think that says a lot.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:37 p.m.

    John T
    Scranton, PA
    While I believe the Pope is quite correct in pointing out the growing disparity between the rich and poor, it would also seem that he is hinting at a one-size-fits-all wealth redistribution program ala Obama's idealistic view. Obama has openly said that he believes in government-forced redistribution of wealth, making everyone 'equal'

    .....The problem is -- if you only watch Fox News (perpetrated by the Australian Murdoch) and similar right-wing sources, and, especially, if you believe that a Black President makes taking care of the Blacks #1, you can interpret Pres. Obama that odd way, then go along and imagine that the pope is saying what you have been told Obama is saying.

    I keep pointing out that this website belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, but some commenters want to align with an imaginary church which is against some people and some causes. Jesus Christ was against no one who was being honest and respecting God.

    Jesus never said anything remotely resembling the delusional and meanspirited attitudes I read in some of the comments here.

  • sukiyhtaky us, CA
    Nov. 28, 2013 6:34 p.m.

    And we all know how well that 'everyone is equal' thing did in Russia. Taking care of the poor is a wonderful and necessary thing. Creating multi-generational welfare dependance is racial and class discrimination at its worst.

  • Sorry Charlie! SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    @john t
    what video? please direct us to any video of Obama making such claims. I have heard audio files that people claim is obama which interestingly cuts off have way through a sentence leaving no context or any evidence that it is even Obama speaking.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    NO doubt capitalism and a free markete economy should be monitored by the government. Now the government does too much and is strangling our economy. The pope is quite in error here. The trickle down theory is not the cause of poverty. It is lack of private property rights and all that entails such as low and simple tax structure, the rule of law, an effective, but innoffensive bureaucracy that is not overbearing. The job of the economy is to put people to work. The Pope knows nothing about economies.

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    300 pages in the declaration? Wow, that's astounding! Looks like having over 2000 pages in the ACA has started a world trend towards verboseness.

    It is hardly news that Pope Francis is an economic liberal. He seems to be surprisingly moderate on social issues. I would very much like to see a synopsis of what he talked about in the other 287 pages.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    Anybody who believes that Socialism is better than liberty, redistribution of weatlh is better than protection of Constitutional rights, and government welfare is better than Godly charity doesn't understand freedom and has given up independence for security, the same trap that Germany fell into before Hitler took over. The biggest problem we have today is a left that wants government and private enterprise merged, as is the case, to solve social problems. So, in essence, it is the elimination of everything private. To the Roland Kaisers and LDS Liberals of the this world: You can't have liberty by taking it all away.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    @ John T.
    You wrote: " Obama is a socialist, plain and simple."

    and that would be bad because....?

    I don't know if President Obama considers himself a socialist or not. But definitely he is leaning more to offer a more fair access to the opportunities to improve yourself. I have heard the President and the First Lady talking to young people about responsibility and challenging themselves to become self sufficient and contributing members of society.

    The Pope on the other hand talks about the naivete of those believing that trickle down economics will impact society raising a tide that will lift all boats. It failed with Ronald Reagan, when we suffered a serious recession that made George Bush Sr. a one term president. It failed with George W. Bush when the rich became richer, the poor became poorer and the country is still recuperating from the worst recession since the great depression.

    Do I need to point out that we are coming out of this desperate situation under the leadership of President Obama?

  • John T Scranton, PA
    Nov. 28, 2013 5:33 a.m.

    Roland, I respectfully disagree. Obama speaks of wealth redistribution, sponsored by government, in his book, "Dreams of my Father." There are several tapes of him as a congressman saying explicitly that he believes in redistribution. The cameras and microphones do not lie, friend. Obama is a socialist, plain and simple.

  • maclouie Falconer, NY
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:25 a.m.

    Roland Kayser and Blue:

    About redistribution - "The president has never, ever, said that."

    Obviously, you have not heard everything Obama has ever said. Unless the audio/video clips were "photoshopped" you are the only one(s) saying he never said that or it's baloney. Even Obama has not denied saying those things about redistribution. The cave must be cozy.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Nov. 28, 2013 2:23 a.m.

    Odd headline -- unfortunately, perhaps symptomatic of the DN's constantly picking topics to please the older, less urban, less flexible readers.

    I would have chosen "Pope Decides to Correct the Course of Catholic Church, Which Has Veered off the Road to the Right"
    --- and, I would add, away from what Jesus called for

    All large churches are in danger of being ruled by their bureaucracy and of not listening to younger members' thoughts.

  • Northwest Reader Vancouver, WA
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:31 a.m.

    Are there truths in what the Pope has said? He is quoted as saying, "While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially,so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few." I have heard this same idea stated in various other publications as well.

    On the other hand, the author has provided a great service in including the Tim Worstall quote, "it's entirely true that the already rich, that top 2 or 3 percent, have done very well. But the vast majority of the newly created wealth of the past 25 years has gone to those in the 5 to 75th percentiles of the income distribution. This is, thankfully, the poor getting rich."

    So is it possible that both of these conditions are true or is one being less than accurate?

    Regardless, does the Pope know what should be done? Where is the bright shining beacon to equality? If we look at economic equality in his home country of Argentina, we find the lowest inequality of Latin American countries. Unfortunately, we also find that over 20% of the population live below the poverty line.

  • mcdugall Murray, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:44 p.m.

    @John T - The Government already has a wealth redistribution system in place in the form of corporate welfare. People, rather than huge corporations and the Uber wealthy, could share in the savings of removing corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks or expanded government programs.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    The right's heading out into lala land. We need to stay left of that.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:20 p.m.

    John T: Obama has openly said that he believes in government-forced redistribution of wealth, making everyone "equal."

    That only happened in your imagination. The president has never, ever, said that.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:12 p.m.

    John T: "Obama has openly said that he believes in government-forced redistribution of wealth, making everyone 'equal.'"

    Complete baloney.

    You do know the difference between a call for equal opportunity, and a call for equal outcomes, right?

    This Pope is behaving a lot more like a Christian than many of the folks here in the US who claim to be Christians.

  • CBAX Provo, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:46 p.m.

    Capitalism allows the best and worst to come out in humanity. Innovation and advances in technology are accompanied by billions of dollars of greed for vice, money, and essentially power.

    Socialism and Communism bring out the mediocrity in humanity.

  • John T Scranton, PA
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:18 p.m.

    While I believe the Pope is quite correct in pointing out the growing disparity between the rich and poor, it would also seem that he is hinting at a one-size-fits-all wealth redistribution program ala Obama's idealistic view. Obama has openly said that he believes in government-forced redistribution of wealth, making everyone "equal." The problem is, it will never work - and I also do not believe that it is biblical. While the Bible does teach us to look after those in need, it also teaches the healthy concepts of work. The idealistic utopian society which Obama and other progressives are attempting to force on America these days will never work, and has never worked. History is littered with failed attempts at Utopia, including all forms of communism and socialism. America has always been at her best when her people were allowed to flourish with little government interference, and when the great majority of her people are doing well, they are exceedingly generous to those in need. Indeed, America was built on altruistic ideas which can be traced back to the Bible. Would that our current leadership learn this lesson.

  • rightascension Provo, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:43 p.m.

    This is a reoccurring theme of popes. Pope John Paul II had a lot of negative things to say about capitalism -- and then it got worse, and Pope Francis had to take up the theme again.

  • Commodore West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:43 p.m.

    This Pope makes a lot of sense when he is speaking about taking care of the poor and economics.