Doug Robinson: Do Utes, fans yearn for Mountain West days?

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  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Dec. 2, 2013 8:07 p.m.

    plyxply "Unfortunately while they have now "arrived" nobody respects them (Utah) as much as they did when they were winning games in the Mtn West. Funny how that happens.

    Wow. Short memory. Utah had to be the only undefeated team to bust the BCS, then they were given a non-ranked Big East team and still no respect from the national media. This was the Alex Smith team!
    It was not until AFTER the 'Bama game that Utah got national attention since they finished with better record and stats all around than BCS Champion Florida. Winning games in the Mtn West did not gain respect.
    You are right, Utah is still riding respect nation wide, but it's not from the PAC-12; it's from their own history.

  • Alex 1 Tucson, AZ
    Dec. 1, 2013 6:54 p.m.

    If I were a Ute fan, I wouldn't regret the move either, for the same reason I think that it was good for BYU to go independent. It is harder, but better long term for both. I don't mind the hard work. It is more satisfying to me.

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    Dec. 1, 2013 4:27 p.m.


    "Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I did not welcome Utah to the PAC12"

    You mean no one asked if it was okay if Utah was invited? How dare they!!

  • jazzer St. George, UT
    Dec. 1, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Desnews chats are so funny. Everyone on here thinks they know so much about football and conferences when in all reality, we don't. We don't know what goes on. People are always bringing up stats and facts when they are not even comparable. I could spend 2 solid hours a day on these BYU, Utah articles.

    Thanks for the entertainment, much needed!

  • MountainMan25 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Last comment:

    "Fair question. As a Ute fan it has been hard watching my team have it's lunch eaten most weeks. My answer to the question: Yes and no. I do miss having 8, 9, 10 win seasons with the occasional undefeated season. It was fun!! I don't miss seeing Wyoming, New Mexico, CSU but enjoy watching the USCs, Oregons, and Stanfords of the world come to SLC almost every year. However if things don't turn around and we can't at least become partially competitive ( 4 or 5 conference wins) it'll be hard to be a fan. I'm a diehard and will always watch them and cheer them on, win or lose, but it'd be nice if they could right this PAC ship. I'd rather not my team be Washington State's replacement as the whipping boy."

    This sums it up well. Let's hope we can replace Whit and right the ship.

  • MountainMan25 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    "I personally think that time will show that going to the PAC-12 was a huge mistake. Recruiting will be harder due to losing seasons, fans will quit going, heck 25 years ago Utah couldn't draw 20k fans because they always lost. This lack of fan support will return. It's the team, win/loss and to some degree, SOS that ultimately matters, not the conference itself."

    Pains me to say it, as I was excited about the PAC 12 (we have finally arrived!! We will be a national powerhouse!!), but I think the above comment hit the nail on the head.

  • MountainMan25 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 2:09 p.m.

    I hate to say this, but yes. The Mountain West was more fun...unless your definition of fun was watching "big time" programs like Washington State and Arizona beat you year in and year out and thank you for taking away their status as the "bottom feeders" of the conference.

    We were relevant nationally in the Mountain West. I thought we were on our way to building a nationally-recognized program. Instead, we remain a regional team, with a limited national following (if one exists at all).

    8-18 in conference play? 1-7 so far this year (our THIRD YEAR IN)?

    How can you honestly say it is more fun to watch our team lose winnable games week in and week out? I don't see that light at the end of the tunnel either.

    Whit needs to go.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    BlueHusky "Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I did not welcome Utah to the PAC12 and their fan's exaggerated joy at the "promotion" has now seen the reality."

    Oregon State would not be bowling without Utah and Colorado. With the exception of CAL, the expansion tide raised the winning record of the PAC-10 teams.

  • John Locke Ivins, , UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    Utah has achieved what many schools, particularly in the MWC would give their firstborn for: Just being in the PAC12. It took Arizona St. and Arizona many years to become significant in the PAC10 and now PAC12. They certainly are, now. It is Colorado and Utah's turn to be insignificant, for a while, but they will recruit and win. I was at the UCLAand Stanford games this year. Was blown away in beating Stanford, and nearly UCLA, both highly ranked. Was and at the UCLA a few years back when we beat them badly. Becoming significant will happen...but it certainly won't happen if you are not there...get my drift?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 30, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    @ BlueHusky

    Between 2004 and 2009 UW was an embarrassment. Yous guys seemed to have recovered. Why can't Utah do the same after only two down years. Further, the Huskies have only won ONE bowl game since 2001. Utah has that many since joining the PAC.

  • Cute Ute Houston, TX
    Nov. 30, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    I'd rather be winning the MWC and seeing my team in a bowl game than losing nearly every game in the PAC12. I might be in the minority but I want my team to win games. There is no joy in losing just because the teams we lose to are better teams.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Nov. 29, 2013 9:07 p.m.

    Speaking as a BYU fan, no way would I want BYU to go back to MWC. They are improving and will continue to get better. I like the national scope of their program.

    Speaking as a Washington and Oregon State alum, I did not welcome Utah to the PAC12 and their fan's exaggerated joy at the "promotion" has now seen the reality. Utah, in my opinion, will never be a top half team in the PAC12. Sorry. You'll be good once in a while, but you'll get used to losing to USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and Washington, to say nothing of AZ and ASU. You'll be there with OSU, WSU, and Colorado most of the time. Bowl games will be occasional not frequent. Rose Bowl? Probably not in my lifetime.

    That will be OK. I don't think WSU would jump to the MWC. Neither will Utah.

    And BYU will do just fine, thank you very much.

  • DraperUteFan Draper, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    I've heard the references to Arizona so much on this thread, I think we need an acronym and a name called the AA - Arizona Argument. Moving to the PAC 12 has been pretty darn good for Arizona basketball and the football team has had some very successful seasons (apparently some forgot Desert Storm).

    ASU just won the south and has had some very competitive teams over the years. They have underachieved, but are still good and get to bowl games. Has BYU been any better than either Arizona team?

    Bottom line is I don't see either of them backing out of the PAC just because they aren't getting to and winning the Rose Bowl.

    Last time I checked, BYU hadn't been to a BCS Bowl game yet, so does that mean you should ditch Independence?

    Some people love the security blanket of an 8-4 season and any bowl game compared with stepping up the level of competition, thereby making your program better even though it is tough going.

    The tally is in and nearly every Ute fan on this board favors staying in the PAC and a large number of Cougar fans vote it down. Interesting...

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 29, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    Phoenix, AZ

    I'm getting really, really dizzy from all the spin.

    If you were being recruited by PAC 12 schools, why would you choose freezing Utah over Southern California or Arizona? You wouldn't. That is the difference between Utah/Colorado and the rest of the PAC.


    I don't know but how about factors such as academics, playing time, relationship with coaching staff, and facilities since they all ranked hire then weather according to Forbes magazine.

    Recruiting Talent (average P12 rankings over 3 years):

    #1 USC
    #4 Washington
    #7 Utah
    #9 Arizona
    #12 Washington State

    BYU’s recruiting over same period compared to PAC-12 “bottom feeder”:

    2013: #63 … equal to #12 P12 Colorado overall 69
    2012: #60 … equal to #12 P12 Washington State overall 50
    2011: #66 … equal to #12 P12 Arizona overall 70

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    I like the Arizona/Arizona State reference. Both teams left the WAC and what have they done since? The Utes will never be more than a second tier team in the Pac 10. Since there are as many fans in Salt Lake County that cheer for the Y (maybe more), they ought to burn down that sign on I-15 that says "Now Entering PAC 12 Country". I certainly don't consider Salt Lake County to be PAC 12 Country. They ought to move that sign to the corner of 4th South and 14th East. It fits there.

  • Lightening Lad Austin , TX
    Nov. 29, 2013 2:21 a.m.

    Ya you can't get anymore selfish that wanting your fans to be able to watch your games, just terrible. BYU should have stayed in the MWC so one team other than Boise could be said to care about their football program with at least enough fan support to put 30,000 in the seats. Selfish is wanting to prevent BYU from playing before their distant fans and fans on TV, playing a national schedule to match their national following. The MWC really stinks, with very weak TV markets and fans that just don't care. If they did, the "crowds" would at least average 25,000. UNLV in the best year in many years had less than 12,000 paying fans per game. Can any of the teams that go bowling sell their allotments, or will the league take a huge hit financially?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 9:10 p.m.

    When polled, Utah fans voted 102 for the PAC-12 and 1 for returning to the MWC.

    Mr. Robinson, can't wait for the follow-up article regarding BYU fans when questioned about Independence or MWC!

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 6:34 p.m.

    An honest question: Why do Ute fans think that Utah will someday win the PAC-12 and get into a BCS game?

    I love the state, but wonder how Utah will recruit better than Oregon, OSU, Wash, USC, UCLA, Stanford, ASU and UA? A recruit here and there, but, honestly, have better athletes? What about Utah and the program would attract a recruit here rather than there?

    BYU has the same problem but a more limited pool yet a larger pool because of the built in affinity (not guaranteed at all) for the LDS players. Why would someone come here over there?

    BYU being independent is better than being in the crumby MWC, but, Utah's reputation that was so sterling and growing is diminishing.

    And losing close games will grow old for any fan base.

    In reality, the best thing for both schools is to create the following conference (if it can get agreement and can get anything approaching a decent TV contract): UofU, U of Colorado, BYU, USU, Boise St. SDSU, Fresno St., SJSU, UNLV and Reno. Mountain 10. Won't happen. Money isn't there. Egos are.

    So... BYU will limp along and Utah will be mired.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:25 p.m.

    4 in a row!

    Why so much hate? Don't see the hate in my post. Just a legitimate question. Why would a recruit turn down a warm weather climate to play in a cold weather one. Instead of pinning me as a hater, you could have said "for a chance to play" or "because some people like to ski instead of surf." You know, a legitimate question and answer. Why the PAC 12 references? I guess I'm lost on that one. I thought Utah was in the PAC 12. Or I could say, like so many others, that it's the PAC 10.2, or the PAC 11 and u. But silly me to show an inch of respect. Maybe this shows that Utah isn't ready for the big time and the article is right to suggest that they go back to the MWC.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    The Utes are now riding the coattails of their PAC 12 counterparts. They could've never garnered the respect the PAC 12 brings just being Utah. They had to have the others to bring the perception of their program up. Unfortunately while they have now "arrived" nobody respects them as much as they did when they were winning games in the Mtn West. Funny how that happens.

  • Farid @ Pocatello Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 28, 2013 1:18 p.m.

    Had I been given the choice of BYU's independence as it is currently working and going back to the days of the Mountain West, I'd stay right where we are.

    That said, if BYU could be part of a Mountain West Conference that allowed all BYU games to be broadcast that weren't picked up by their channels (whatever they are now), then I'd jump back to the MWC in a minute.

    Four years ago, I was able to watch 6-7 football games and a dozen or so basketball games every year. Today I can see every football and every basketball game BYU plays.

  • eric2002x Miami, FL
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:52 p.m.

    By the way, several commentators saying 9 SEC teams are not bowl eligible are WRONG. You must have been looking at Conf record instead of overall. There are currently 9 SEC teams that ARE bowl eligible (out of 14 teams). The only teams out this year are Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas and Miss St depends on their rivalry game tonight to get to 6 wins.

  • 4 in a row! Ogden, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Re: Retired Cougar SunDevil

    CU is the 1990 national champion.

    There were teamates from warm wheather communities that played on that team. Why so much hate and Pac-12 references all the time? You don't have to answer, we already know.

  • Rob of NV Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 28, 2013 11:59 a.m.


    "people like to compare Utah to Arizona or ASU, but neither of those teams were true standouts before their integration into the PAC."

    Surely you gest, or are a history revisionist. ASU at the time of leaving the WAC for the Pac8 was dominating the WAC, much like BYU did after they left. The legendary Frank Kush was their coach. They had won the Fiesta Bowl and were ranked #2 in the country. The Fiesta Bowl was created to highlight ASU. That is why when BYU won the WAC in '74, beating ASU and earning an invitation to the Fiesta Bowl with QB Gary Sheide was so significant to the beginning of LaVell Edwards career. UofA road the coattails of ASU into the Pac8 as a travel partner and to balance the league. Had ASU and UofA stayed in the WAC, there would have been some great rivalries with BYU, as BYU was on the rise with Coach Edwards and Coach Frank Arnold in basketball. To draw a comparison between Utah and ASU if very fair. When ASU joined the Pac8, they were, at the least and perhaps more dominant and accomplished than Utah when UT joined the Pac10.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    Going into the PAC was a no brainer for Utah. BYU would love to have that opportunity. The reason that Utah gets no respect from PAC 12 schools is not just their football and basketball teams are poor, it is their other sports are much worse (except gymnastics) than their football team when compared to the PAC 12. BYU has a rich tradition in the Olympic sport that is well-known around the country. In men's and women's cross-country, track and field, soccer, mens and womens volleyball, BYU would be at the top of the PAC 12 in most years. Utah on the other hand is so far behind they will never garner much respect in the PAC 12.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    Actually, it is all about $money$. The PAC12 has meant tons of money for Utes whether they win or lose. And prestige. Being in the PAC12 league itself actually means more than winning. This is evident in the above comments!

    No one has mentioned that Utah will not have bragging rights for Whit the next two years because he and Hill refused to put the Y on their schedule. With no Y win next year, what will the excuse be when they have another losing season, I wonder? (BTW, I wish we never had to play them again. The stupid rivalry is over as far as I am concerned. Too much ugliness on both sides.)

    Loyal Y fan here! Go Cougars!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Yeah poor UA & ASU. Since joining the PAC they have won several national titles in various sports. They should have stayed in the WAC according to the author of this article.

    How dare they! Utah should have refused the money and not join the PAC.
    Should BYU have refused the money from ESPN and go independent?

    Yes, I do think sometimes how better the MWC would be had they both remained there. A new TV deal might have happened sooner as a result.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    I'm getting really, really dizzy from all the spin.

    If you were being recruited by PAC 12 schools, why would you choose freezing Utah over Southern California or Arizona? You wouldn't. That is the difference between Utah/Colorado and the rest of the PAC.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Nov. 28, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    Ifel Of'a-sofa
    Alpine, Utah
    the mighty pac 12... if the 4 team playoff were to happen this year, they would not even have a team involved.


    BYU would not be involved either.

  • eric2002x Miami, FL
    Nov. 28, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    I love all the Ute fans talking about doormats in the WAC and MWC. During a stretch of nearly 30 years beginning in 1974, Utah was a doormat in this conferences and never one an outright WAC championship, and only a few in MWC. For decades in my lifetime, the doormat WAS Utah and Air Force, Colorado St or San Diego St all had good runs and rankings. Utah had a great run in 2004 and 2008, but that was the anomaly, not the rule for the past 40 years. I cheered for Utah when they had those great years, but I despise them now - they're like annoying "nouveau riche" who have to brag about how wealthy they are and how big their house (Pac12) is... And yet they still play in a little pathetic stadium seating 45,000 (only upsized because of 2002 Olympics). Let's put this conversation on hold for 10 years after a decade of losing to see how much fun Utah is having.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 28, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    "Do Utes, fans yearn for Mountain West days?"

    NO! I would rather see my team struggle in the second toughest conference in college football than play in the Mountain West.

    Do BYU fans yearn for the Mountain West days?

    The cougs haven't exactly looked good either since going Indy.

  • Disgruntled Nephi, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Utah fans three years ago: we will contend for the division and conference championship every year! Ute fans now: this is a work in progress and will take some time. Lol! Ute fans: we could and should be 8-4! Well, yes, but you could just as easily be 1-10.

  • I'll call it Ogden, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 9:07 a.m.

    Coach is a class act from A to Z. Be very careful how you handle this one Dr Hill.

    I’ll be there this Saturday with family and friends and I’ll be there next year with my full support of the team.

    We have already requested additional season tickets even though they are difficult to come by these days.

    Utah has a great product and it will continue to improve under Coach Whittingham’s excellent leadership. This conference is exciting and competitive to say the least.

    Am I glad they made the leap to the Pac-12? YES

    Am I in for the long hall? YES... I’m a Utah man with a BYU beauty!

    They just need to get their swagger back and win a few more of the close games. The Oregon St. and Arizona St. games hurt me the most. They were right there for the taking.

    Finish strong against CU.

    Go Utes!

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:33 a.m.


    15 years ago, how many kids grew up wanting to play for Oregon? Their football team didn't register a blip on the radar, same for Baylor, OK state, and plenty of other teams who have developed their programs over the past decade. Utah is now developing their program as well.

    The realty is that Utah is actually primed quite well for the future. While Utah high school football is improving, it's improving all over the nation. That depth has helped Utah tremendously. Utah has made inroads to Texas and Florida as well as taking the majority of the top talent from in State.

  • golfrUte SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    I'm a fan of being in the PAC 12 and wouldn't want to go back to the Mountain West. When the Utes were invited to join the PAC 12, Urban Meyer said it would take 4 to 5 years to recruit enough depth to compete on a weekly basis. Clearly the Utes are recruiting better but they still don't have the depth with their 2nd and 3rd string players. The quarterback injuries have been unfortunate and the coaching staff has struggled to have effective backups ready to go. I think the hiring of Johnson as the Offensive Coordinator was a poor decision and I'm hopeful Erickson will stay for a few more years to provide some stability and experience.
    I wish the Utes and BYU would have been invited to the PAC 12 together to continue their rivalry as members of the same conference. Chris Hill blew it with the rivalry and I don't know of any fellow Ute fan that agrees with taking a 2 year break. Makes no sense to replace BYU with Fresno State. The Utes are competing, just not finishing games and it's frustrating to watch. Hopefully that trend changes soon or Whittingham will be out.

  • CougarColby Fort Benning, GA
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:18 a.m.

    I think it is hilarious that has turned into a BYU vs Utah comparison when the article wasn't making that comparison at all. Christopher B, was the first to insinuate that somebody's comment that he didn't like was a BYU, which ended up not being correct.

    I've been away from Utah for 5 years and came back to visit this fall, right after the Stanford win. I was amzed at how much Pac-12 Country paraphernalia there is. To the casual observer, it seemed there was more PAC-12 fans than Utah. I can't speak for Utah fans, but it is obvious they LOVE the PAC-12. I wonder for how much longer.

    The problem lies in recruiting. Besides in-state high school players, and a few from neighboring states, who has grown up wanting to be a Ute? Competing with USC, Oregon, UCLA and Stanford is impossible. So that leaves Utah with players who just want to play football somewhere that the bigger schools wouldn't take and I'm not sure if that type of recruiting can be sustainable. I wish them luck, but Utah High Schools don't have enough power players to make a team.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 28, 2013 6:28 a.m.

    Is Utah a #9-#10 choice in the PAC-12? Well, it depends which class?

    Utah's PAC-12 Class Rankings:

    2011 #6
    2012 #7
    2013 #10
    2014 #11

    Source: Scout

    So it seems we've proven we can recruit at the mid-level in the PAC-12. We will never out recruit teams like USC, UCLA, and Oregon. We need to get back to winning, find PAC-12 position coaches first.

  • Semper Fidelis Apo, AP
    Nov. 28, 2013 5:59 a.m.

    I actually had similar thoughts to Zatarra...

    If you lived in the state of Kentucky for the past decade, would you rather have Louisville or Kentucky as your football team?

    If you'd rather be losing in the best conference, then Kentucky is your choice.
    If you'd rather win in a significantly inferior conference, then you'd take Louisville.

    I do agree with Doug, NCAA Football needs to be reigned in by the NCAA.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 4:49 a.m.

    Weird article. Blame who? For what?

    It is very clear utah fans like the challenge of the pac 12. I live outside of Utah and with the pac 12 membership I can watch every game. Every conference game is competitive and that seems closer to the spirit of college football than beating up on the wyomings and new mexicos every year.

    Given the quarterback issues, it's not a surprise that Utah struggled the last three years. Utah fans are living in the reality that a serious injury to a key player can derail an entire season, but that is what comes with the territory of the BCS conferences.

  • CrimsonArrow SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:29 a.m.

    All other factors being the same, if you replaced Whittingham with Urban Meyer as head coach this year, does Utah's record improve? What about Gary Anderson? I think it improves in both scenarios.

    McBride was a step up from Fassel, Meyer was a step up from McBride, and Whittingham was necessary in the vacuum of Meyer's departure...but his time is up. It's time to get a real coach who doesn't hire 25 year olds as his OC, doesn't squander opportunities to play in the PAC-12 championship game in Utah's inaugural year of PAC-12 play by losing to the worst team in the nation (at home), or consistently losing winnable games.

    The OC from any of the top 6 SEC schools would be an immediate upgrade.

  • CrimsonArrow SLC, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:27 a.m.

    Whittingham got the Utes into the PAC-12? He built the program? Doug "Obama" Robinson to Urban Meyer- "You didn't build that!"

    If TCU makes 1 of 2 missed FG's against Utah in 2008, the Utes lose, no Sugar Bowl, no PAC-12. The Oregon St game was nearly a loss as well. Whittingham lucked out and is a B+ coach. He's slightly above average. So he'll win in an average conference, and will be punked in a major one. He has shown he cannot hang with the big boys on a weekly basis. He'll throw a big win out once in a while, and then immediately undo it by losing to multiple mediocre teams. He doesn't have or command the mental discipline necessary to have his team compete week in/week out.

  • utahutesfanatic Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    This is an easy answer! No, I do not miss the MWC conference. It was great playing the top TCU teams and the honorable Air Force Academy, but it got really boring playing teams that we could nearly guarantee the win before the game. The question wasn't about whether the Utes would win, but instead by how large of margin. When we played those games and the margin of victory was the discussion rather than the hard fought win, that is when you know you aren't playing the right competition. Nearly every game this year, the Utes had the capabilities to win, but they also could lose too. It is a lot more exciting going into most game without being almost certain of the outcome. I would rather go 2-7 in the PAC-12 exciting games, than go 8-1 in the MWC and no excitement at all seven games. I take these tough years over any year in the MWC except for 2004 and 2008. Times are tough, years will be better and worse, but being apart of the PAC-12 is superior.

  • UteRB77 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:15 p.m.

    Okay DN, I'm sorry for being so vile. Let’s try again.

    I hated having to learn to clean out the garage, and I hated having to learn to multiply and do fractions. The issue of fun is ridiculous and irrelevant. However, I am glad I learned how to work and how to do math. My dad always told me that nothing of real value in life was ever easy and rarely fun, but it is sure worth the journey. Jealous detractors can throw sharp darts, but that just shows envy. BTW, I would hope the U would have the integrity and foresight to hang on to Coach Whit through the rough years. He is a huge reason we are in the PAC 12, and BTW Mac did more for us than Urban ever did. Kyle is the long term real deal, and Urban just used us as a stepping stone. Any school that would be willing to throw Coach Whit under the bus would lose my respect and future financial support.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:58 p.m.

    My only response to the headline since I didn't bother reading the ridiculous column -- LOL!!!!

  • UteRB77 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:57 p.m.

    @jbp (Dr. Freud) - Good grief, relax with the psychoanalysis buddy. Nobody expects to lose here, but it certainly is more exciting to play a team with the greater possibility of a loss. It's like ditching door bells as a kid. The thrill is in the possibility of getting caught.

    @tinplater and letsroll- When was the last time you guys were sitting in a player's living room on a recruiting tour?

    @Zatarra - Kentucky? That's your example, Really? They've never been a football contender.

    For crying out loud people! Utah has a great challenge to grow and improve, and I believe they can and will rise to the occasion. BYU has a great challenge and opportunity to be a great independent national power and compete at a level with Notre Dame. They are taking the steps to make it happen.

    I will miss the rivalry - both winning and losing. These are the things that make life exciting and more worth living. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We should be more decent people than demonstrated with the nasty dart-throwing quips, and grateful that both teams rose to the challenge to be great.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:56 p.m.

    Chance that Utah returns to MWC: zero
    Chance that BYU returns to MWC: likely

    This year represents the pinnacle of what BYU can accomplish as an independent. With their best team and toughest schedule ever, they failed to beat a top 25 team, won't finish in the top 25 themselves, and have no title to play for.

    Cougar fans don't like that. They want a meaningful season. With scheduling going down hill from here, don't surprised if BYU returns to their role as a big fish in a little pond.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:53 p.m.

    I rather go 5-7 in the PAC-12 then 10-3 in the MWC. Losing is never fun, but winning a bunch of cupcakes isn't either.

    Utah finished 33-6 in the MWC, all loses were to AP ranked teams. It was time to move on and I'm glad we did.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    Let's roll (2 of 2)

    Objective reasons why Utah's recruiting will improve

    The money: While it is "ME Too" stuff as you mention, the fact is we aren't "me too" yet. So the increase in resources will likely be a significant help

    Utah actually has some things that do set it apart. The biggest thing for Utah is something that Whit is already developing and is showing benefits: the Polynesian connection. Given the strong Poly ties to Utah, they get are are getting better players, particularly in the trenches. Examples in the past 2 classes, of out of state Polynesian players: Lutui, Uhatafe, Aiava, Ianu, Tevi, Vaenuku (RIP).

    LDS church: The fact that Utah has the biggest Institute in the world is a benefit for elite LDS players who want a BCS experience with a strong church presence.

    Texas: As I mentioned before, Utah is in Texas more than another Pac-12 school, and they are spreading to Florida. Players are committing from these areas, and it will only improve with increased revenue.

    Ultimately I don't think Utah will be in the top 2 or 3 in recruiting, but I don't think they have to be a very competitive Pac-12 program

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:07 p.m.

    Let's Roll (1 of 2)

    The problem with your argument (that Utah is the 9th or 10th choice among recruits who have offers from all other Pac-12 schools) is that there are very few recruits who are offered from all Pac-12 schools.
    My point was to show that there are plenty of recruits who have chosen Utah over other Pac-12 schools, even "elite" level pac 12 schools, and that is bump we have had over the past 2 year.

    When I read your numbers regarding players who chose Utah over Pac-12 schools I read it as only 4, I guess you are saying 4 had offers from Utah and one other Pac 12 school, and 4 had multiple offers from Pac-12 schools, if that is your point, then your numbers are correct. If Utah only recruited the same players as other Pac-12 schools, then I would be discouraged, but, given their inroads to Texas, it isn't as concerning.

    Drawing the conclusion that we are the 9th or 10th ranked choice based on our ranking isn't a valid conclusion.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:46 p.m.

    As Hillary Clinton would say, "What difference does this make?"

    Play ball! If you like your conference, and your coach, you can keep it.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:19 p.m.

    I should of said "the 70's and 80's".

  • lehiaggie Lehi, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:16 p.m.

    I watch and cheer for both Utah and BYU unless they are playing the Aggies. I think the real question about fun depends on whether you are a football fan or you are just a fan of the school. If you are a fan of the school, then it seems you will only enjoy winning. If you are a football fan cheering for your favorite team, then the outcome is not as important in determining if you enjoyed yourself.

    From an Aggie perspective the Boise State and BYU games (both losses) were not that enjoyable because I feel we just didn't compete. On the hand the Utah and USC game were enjoyable (even though the outcome was undesirable).

    However, even in games that are not close you can still enjoy great plays and great players. Example: any fan of football would appreciate Van Noy's play on the first play of the BYU/USU game. As an Aggie fan the result was not fun, but I still had to appreciate the play and the player.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:08 p.m.

    let's roll,

    Utah has come a long way from where the were in the 80's and 90's. They didn't do it "entirely on hope". Go Utes Go PAC 12.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:31 p.m.


    You've now conceded you have no answer to my original question. How can we as Utah fans believe (rather than hope) we'll ever have the top half of the talent pool needed to win consistently in the PAC-12.

    We ARE the 9th or 10th choice for recruits, that's why our recruiting classes ARE ranked 9th and 10th the last two year.

    Now you say you don't think Utah will ever be able to recruit more than the occasional 4 or 5 star athlete when our competition has gets 10 or so every year, which explains their recruiting class rankings. So remind me again how Utah is going to get into the top half of PAC-12 recruiting.

    As I mention in the first email good coaching can occasionally get inferior talent to beat better talent, but only occasionally. And all the money/improvement you talk about is just "me too" stuff, everyone is doing it and it doesn't differentiate the U from any other PAC-12 member. That's what the U needs, differentiation.

    Your vision for improvement in the future is the same as mine...based entirely on hope...not on any objective reason that things will improve.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    Utah would have been fools to have turned down a PAC 12 membership. The truth is Utah has been very competitive. OSU, ASU and UCLA were winnable games. I hope coach Whittingham remains at least one more year. No mention of the UTES loosing their starting QB two years in a row. I see Utah in a bowl game next year.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:17 p.m.

    "Better than Corvalis and Pullman" is saying something.... State teams.... Middle of nowhere Pacific Northwest... It also oddly means that Boulder... Where? Yes, that Boulder is 9th.... LOL...

    I would like to illustrate the win v losing line of thinking with are Utes happy to be beating bo diddly squat this year? Or would they rather be playing and beating teams like Texas and other big name teams night after night week after week resulting in every other game loss situations? I am one who wishes Notre Dame was a win.. That Utah was a win, that Virginia was a win... That Wisconsin was a win... I am not happy to have simply 'been in a game' with them... A real fan wants to see wins at whatever level competition it plays but especially the little fish in the swift moving creeks of America. It was no fun losing to Iowa State at home or Wichita State in the Sprint Center... Those are games that could have had huge implications in March... Could have boos... Nevermind... Cougars need to be humble... That is when they do 'best'... A Cocky Cougar team is not a successful one...

  • Veracruz Brentwood, CA
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:13 p.m.


    THAT was a GREAT comment. Why don't we do that? Huge upside. TV rights, great recruiting power, terrific football games.

    Downside: These teams would beat the tar our of each other and still would not make the BCS Bowls or the upcoming Football Final Four.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:13 p.m.


    Nothing wrong with my information.

    The recruits you're talking about are part of recruiting classes that were ranked 9th in the PAC-12(2013) or 10th in the PAC-12 (2014). So your explanation explains the background behind those 9th and 10th rated recruiting classes. My question was, and continues to be, how can the U get into the top half of PAC-12 recruiting.

    Most recruiting classes have about 25 athletes. To cite 4 or 5 from each class who had another PAC-12 offer means 80% of the recruiting class wasn't offered at any other PAC-12 school, our competition.

    And as I noted earlier, at the top end, it's even worse. Not only do USC and UCLA have 10 4 star or higher athletes for every 1 Utah has. And despite whatever in-roads Utah may be making in Texas, Utah isn't getting any more of those athletes than it did before it was in the PAC-12.

    Bottom line, thanks for explaining how Utah put together its 9th and 10th rated recruiting classes the last two year, the question remains, how do we do better.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:07 p.m.

    @Pocy Utes

    BYU's home slate had four great opponents coming in to LES this year with Utah, Boise State, Texas, Georgia Tech. MTS wasn't a name opponent for BYU, but a far better program than most of the MWC.

    I am glad that Utah went to the PAC12. The move meant BYU would go Indy after talking about doing so since the nineties. Both play much more exciting schedules.

    Utah will never be at the top of the PAC-12 on a yearly basis. They will compete and spoil a good team now and again. They will eventually get back to bowl games on a yearly basis, just not too likely during the next two years. BYU will never be a top ten team on a consistent basis. They will continue having one to three great wins a season (this year it was the Texas, Houston, GT and Boise State wins for me) and being ranked about half the time. I am having fun too.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:03 p.m.

    Nah.... The one thing that will never escape this state is the great veil of mediocrity... The mediocrity curtain will never entertain the truly top elite recruits to come here... Fire the coaches... Fire the ADs... The results will always be the same... Always a poorly executed play here or there... The what if's being candies and nuts making every year a Merry Christmas...

    I do have one problem... Why is there even a pretended attempt to blend USU, UU BYU BSU TCU etc in the same conference? 2 of the aforementioned teams are already elite aligned... Why would they leave that for more of the years gone by? Please put that what if to bed permanently so we don't have to go 'oh brother' even one more time.. Plus, not only that, but BYU doesn't particularly want to be anywhere but where they are right now.. Nothing will change that... EVER!

  • LoveTheMountains BELLEVUE, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:43 p.m.

    I love BYU football since going to independence. The schedule has never been more diverse and interesting. The ability to watch every game in HD, usually on ESPN, has been a very nice change for the national fan base. We blew some games this year, but we've had better teams in the past who would have run the table against this year's schedule, which would have qualified us for a BCS bowl. Nope, not worth going back to the MWC. Like many of the Ute fans have mentioned, would you rather beat up on a bunch of lousy teams, or watch hard fought games against serious competition? Beating Texas and Boise St. was a blast, and competing with Wisconsin and Notre Dame was ultimately disappointing but much more engaging than sleeping through yet another Colorado State blowout victory. The fact is, BYU and the U both underperformed this year, but will live to experience seasons in the sun.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:42 p.m.

    Let's Roll

    Now your t changing your argument. You've gone from saying that Utah will be the 9th or 10th choice of athletes in the pac-12 who don't have a connection to Utah (an artificial restriction) which I have already shown isn't based in objective evidence, to "how can Utah recruit the 4 and 5 star athletes?"

    Well, I don't think they ever will, but that doesn't mean they can't win in the Pac-12 without a roster of 4 and 5 star athletes. It means the improved athletes who Utah has in the program have to be coached up. Utah has improved talent, but expecting a bunch of freshman and sophomores to come in and dominate is an unreasonable expectation.

    Utah will close the gap as they continue to improve the talent base, improve facilities and have more money to put towards recruiting as the get a full share of the pac-12 money. An example how that has helped, Utah now brings players in on officials during the season cause they can afford support staff to take care of the recruits instead of the coaches.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:30 p.m.

    Next year, Utah has the same PAC-12 schedule with Stanford and Oregon (at home!) plus we are trading BYU for Michigan.

    It's only getting tougher. And I am still going to every game!

    I would not yearn for the Mountain West.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:21 p.m.

    Let's roll

    Sorry, you have misinformation.

    Dominique Hatfield. 2 pac 12 offers: Ucla and Utah
    Greg Reese: Utah and Oregon St.
    Xavier Shepherd-academic casualty who will likely resign again after Juco: Utah, Az, Cal, Oregon St, UCLA
    Brandon Cox: Utah and Arizona
    Micah Thomas: Utah and Colorado

    I didn't include Tevin Carter who had offers from Utah and OSU because he likely will not ever play at Utah

    Now, let's add people who have a connection to Utah.

    Of the instate recruits who chose Utah last year 3 of the 4 had Pac-12 offers: Masina: colorado; Lowell Lotulelei: Cal, Oregon St. UCLA, Evan Moeai: USC and Colorado

    The nice thing is, Utah has made great inroads in Texas, and they are 1 of 7 teams who signed at least 1 player from Texas last year, but Utah with their 7 and 3 more than OSU, the next highest school.

    All of the Texas commits had at least 1 offer to another BCS school.

    So, to say Utah is the 9 or 10 pick of Pac 12 choices, has been demonstrated as incorrect, and then to limit those athletes as the only ones who Utah can get is wrong. In other words, your whole premise if wrong.

  • Its Common Knowledge Houston, TX
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    Re Chris B

    "a 5-7 program in the Pac 12 is better than a 10-2 program in the WAC 2.0."

    What Chris B fails to understand is that the 5-7 Pac12 Team and the 10-2 WAC team are the SAME team. Obviously what he's concerned with is the status of the PAC12 which has nothing to do with the entertainment value for the fans. Quality recruits want wins.. not just the status of being in a premium conference.

    Another year like this one and tickets sales will fall off sharply. The UofU program is declining since joining their elect conference and will lead to many years of bottom dwelling statistics. The once proud Utes will be faced with some tough decisions in the future all because they choose to go for the money.

    I think most rational U fans would rather have a winning season with the reward of a bowl game than to lose on most Saturdays and sit at home for Christmas.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 7:10 p.m.

    @Razzle2 "Following Doug Robinson logic...BYU should hope to join the toughest conference in America since 10 teams supposedly wish they were not in the Southeast Conference anymore."

    The PAC-12 is stronger than the SEC. They have undefeated 'Bama and two schools with only one loss, Auburn & Missouri (Bama has not played either school). But, so far, they have nine teams will not be bowl eligible. Is that the best conference?

    The PAC-12 is stronger as a conference. Utah beat Stanford, Stanford beat Oregon, Oregon beat UCLA, UCLA beat Oregon State, Oregon State beat Washington, Washington beat Arizona, Arizona beat Oregon.

    Nov. 27, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    While I not surprised to see the usual suspect make posts here, the Y fans and U haters have no business commenting on this article. Read the last paragraph - here is a sentence?

    So, the question: If you are a U. fan, are you still glad the Utes made the leap to the Pac-12?

    It doesn't say if you are a Y fan, what do you think U fans would say.

    I am a U fan and while I miss the winning season, I couldn't get very excited about playing UNLV, Wyoming, CSU, and Air Force. With the exception of Colorado, I was excited about every other conference game. Utah is not going to dominate a division that includes USC, UCLA, and ASU but they will have years when they can compete for a conference title. That works for me.

  • BaneOfHedgehog Bothell, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:54 p.m.

    Heck no! Losing is so much more fun...

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:52 p.m.

    Nine teams of the SEC are not bowl eligible and Georgia may make it 10 this week.

    Following Doug Robinson logic...BYU should hope to join the toughest conference in America since 10 teams supposedly wish they were not in the Southeast Conference anymore.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:44 p.m.


    I do follow Utah recruiting. I am a fan. The numbers demonstrate the challenge I described.

    Utah Recruiting classes were ranked 10th in the PAC-12 in 2014 and 9th in 2013. Since those rankings factor in the number of recruits in a class, they can be a bit misleading, but here's the real challenge.

    Four Star and Above Recruits in the class of 2013
    UCLA 17
    USC 12
    Oregon 8
    Utah 1

    That is the gap between the upper echelon of PAC-12 recruiting and where the U is now. Help me understand how we can close that huge gap and then we can talk about how you've refuted my premise.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    USAlover "Can you imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno State all in the same Conference?"

    Something like it called the 1990's WAC


  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:38 p.m.

    There are remarkably few people demanding Kyle's resignation. Success in this league is difficult but Utah is not that far off. The best part is that the wins actually mean something.

    The only ones who hope the Utes are miserable in the PAC-12 are those who would give anything to change places with them.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:38 p.m.

    Based on the title of the article I refuse to read it. 'cmon

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    I am a BYU fan, but for anyone to suggest the Utes would prefer to return to the Mountain West Conference is foolish. Fact is, Utah's membership in the PAC 12 is a plus for not just them, but for all of college football in the state of Utah.

    Maybe the Utes have struggled thus far in the PAC 12, but the future is not set in stone and perhaps the Utes will one day flourish in the PAC 12.

    And for my fellow Cougar fans who like to compare BYU verses Utah's overall records, fact is, I doubt the Cougarsd would be 7-4 right now if they had to play Utah's schedule. And BYU's schedule next season has three or four tough games, but that's about it.

    To my fellow Cougar fans, let's not mock Utah and their struggles in the PAC 12 too much. Suppose tomorrow, the Big 12 came to BYU and said, "You're in!" Isn't it fair to say we might struggle against teams like Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas A&M?

  • Utah74 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:18 p.m.

    It is really stupid to think that anybody would want to go back to the MW. We will get better in the Pac12 and I think coach Whit is the coach that will get us there.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:12 p.m.

    Sorry PocyUte,

    The premise of my comment was there's no objective reason to believe Utah can be in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting.

    Your comment didn't provide any objective evidence to the contrary. All it did was prove my point.

    Of the 2014 recruits you cite, neither picked Utah over another PAC-12 school.

    Of the 2013 class only 4 picked Utah over another PAC-12 school (and one of those turned down OSU, which I concede has the same handicap to recruiting as does Utah). Only 4 kids in the class had other PAC-12 offers. That's not encouraging. Nearly every recruit at schools in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting have multiple offers from other PAC-12 schools.

    So your "evidence" that Utah can get in the top half of PAC-12 recruiting is that they had 3 recruits that picked Utah over "better" PAC-12 schools (and to get to 3 you have to concede that Cal is a better program than Utah). Did any of those 3 have ties to Utah (I admit we'll still get kids with Utah ties)?

    How many kids did Utah offer who chose other PAC-12 teams instead?

    You're just proving my point.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:12 p.m.

    Balan, Utah has had only 2 full recruiting cycles since joining the Pac-12. It would behoove you to get your facts straight before endorsing an opinion.

  • NM Coug Ramah, NM
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:09 p.m.

    I find it interesting to read the comments related to how much better it is to lose to PAC 12 teams than it was having to play teams like New Mexico and Colorado State. I did my diligent research and found that over the last ten years that the U played UNM, they split the games evenly.. Maybe you need to return to playing teams like UNM and CSU, at least you might return to .500.

  • Balan South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    pocyUte, if the premise is false then prove it on the field. You have had four recruiting seasons since the "big announcement" was made. If you are getting better players, then win!

    Lets Win's comment was insightful and, as far as I am concerned, dead on.

  • Smart Aleck Vancouver, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    At least in the MWC we won more than 4-5 games per year and we were almost always contending for a conference championship, if not in football then in basketball or some other sport. I'd much rather win than lose, even if the wins are against New Mexico and Colorado State. Losing to Oregon St. and Washington St etc. is more than I bargained for.

    Take me back to the winning days of the MWC!

  • JimE Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:33 p.m.

    How well have Arizona and Arizona State done since joining the PAC? Not so great.
    Statistics predict they will be the ugly girl at the dance from here on out.

  • Time Out Lehi / Utah, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    The Utes will be just fine. Their conference record is a glossy 5-1-1. Five moral victories, one win and one loss.

    Onward and upward!

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    pocyUte, if the Utes are such great recruiters then they must have lousy coaching. If I were a recruit and could choose Stanford, USC, ASU, Cal, and Oregon in addition to Utah, I would be off to the sunny balmy metropolitan climes. Utah will be competitive with Washington State, Oregon State, and Colorado. Just because a kid chooses a school, doesn't mean the school was better, just that he might see an opportunity to play at a lesser school.
    Don't misunderstand, Utah will get a higher level of recruit than my Aggies because of program size and conference prestige, but the Aggies are right where they should be. The question is are the Utes?

  • MormonUte Centerville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    This question is so easy to answer for me. The answer is an emphatic NO! I don't miss the MWC. Why? Too many games were a foregone conclusion, and the record, quite frankly, was deceptive. Look at Utah's last year in the Mountain West. They started the year 8-0 and rose to #5 in the BCS. What an illusion that was. The last 5 games of the season included a 47-7 beating by TCU, a 28-3 shellacking at Notre Dame, a 26-3 blowout in the Vegas Bowl, a come from behind 38-34 win at San Diego State, and a 17-16 win over BYU where we needed a blocked field goal on the last play to win it. That was the worst 10-3 team in history. They got there by beating the likes of New Mexico, UNLV, etc. As bad as the record is this year, there have only been 2 non-competitive games (USC and Oregon) and only one foregone conclusion (Oregon). I personally love watching the games every week. You see great talent and competitive games, and it isn't the MWC where you knew that BYU, TCU or Utah was going to win the conference, and only lose to each other.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    I don't think Arizona and Arizona State have ever regretted leaving the WAC back in the 70s, despite their not having become perennial powers in the PAC in any major sport. Likewise, I wouldn't expect Utah to regret playing against better overall competition, even if it only has occasional conference success. But there's a world of difference between belonging to a power conference and dominating it, to which Kyle Whittingham may bear witness in another year or two, when he's coaching linebackers at San Jose State.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    the Utah program is much better than Iowa State, now if Texas or someone would have offered it would be a more objective.
    He said 9th or 10th in the pac.
    Isom is a great recruit and I respect him, when he committed he cited academics as the main reason so I give him a lot of respect for that.
    Utah's recruiting class this year does not have many athletes offered by Power Conference schools, but the Utah class is small(so far).
    I think Utah will be able to recruit on the same level as Oregon State, which can get them really good teams, but will seldom out recruit the top tier of the pac.

  • DraperUteFan Draper, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    This Ute fan does not "yearn" for the days of the MWC. Go ahead and hate on us, doesn't really matter to me. Every team in the MWC or any other mid major conference would jump at the chance to improve their conference affiliation if given the chance.

    Boise switched to the MWC and wishes they could join a better conference even though they lost more games this year than they have in a decade.

    I've watched better football the last three years than I saw in the MWC and I'll wait patiently while the Utes gradually improve and have better seasons than this tough year.

    BYU would not go back to the MWC even if they did offer a better TV deal. It wouldn't make sense for them to do that, so why would Utah deliberately seek to move back to the conference few people care about just to pick up more wins in a season?

    Happy to be a Ute and happy with the decision to be in the PAC 12. For some, the comfort of going to a mediocre bowl every year must feel more secure.

  • red.diehard Central, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    "Now, Utes, if you have truly moved on, can you really let go the obsession with BYU?"

    How can we when you won't go away? When Utah doesn't schedule BYU there is total outrage. When they do schedule there is outrage because the game isn't in Nov. We win and are still the lesser team. Look at the comments for this article, ~50% cougs. How can we move on when you won't let go? Fatal Attraction anyone?

    Personally, I could not careless about BYU, I never have and never will. If Utah ever played them again (at anything) it would be too soon but, *sigh* the games are already scheduled.

    Before ya'll skewer me, this is my opinion only and no animals were harmed during the creation of this comment.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:19 p.m.


    that's just silly

    No one one here says we enjoy losing, or expect to lose. We are saying we enjoy being in the Pac-12 more than the MWC, despite the fact that we have lost more games.

    Fortunately, you are not the "Fandom Czar" so I can still consider my self a true fan.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:12 p.m.

    Let's roll,

    If you follow Utah recruiting, you would see that your premise that Utah is the 9th or 10th pick of players with BCS level offers is not objectively based (since we are being objective

    Of the 2014 commits of Utah this year from out of state with no connection to utah

    Donovan Isom QB: Louisianna. 2 BCS offers Utah and Miami
    Raelon Singleton WR: Texas 2 BCS offers Utah and Iowa St.

    In last years class alone 13 players who chose Utah over their other BCS offers, including

    UCLA, Baylor, Nebraska, Oregon St. West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Arizona, Indiana, Texas Tech, Iowa St., Miss St. and Cal among others.

    So, by objective reasoning, your premise is completely false.

  • red.diehard Central, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    No regrets. I am glad that Utah is in the PAC12. Now if we could just drop BYU from the schedule.

  • Jimmy James Salt Lake City, Ut
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:10 p.m.

    I think this question is easier answered when approached from the opposite perspective, that being:

    Does Boise State miss not having been invited to a BCS conference?

    My answer: Absolutely. After years of dominating mid-major teams and occasionally winning big games against big teams, Boise State is now slipping. And where does that leave them? Nowhere. No team stays on top forever. I'm glad we jumped to the bigger ship when we had the chance. Besides, the conference affiliation is far more important than just football. It's helping our university academically and in many other sports. Yes it stinks to lose, but joining the PAC-12 is still a no-brainer.

  • Anne26 West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    I love that Utah has something to work for. There were some great games this year that the Utes just weren't able to capitalize on. When Utah joined the Pac10 conference, so many predicted that like Arizona and Arizona State, Utah would be bottom dwellers. Well, Arizona State is leading the south conference this year, and one day it will be Utah.

    While some may be content with beating up on teams from Idaho and the like, I'm glad that Utah is playing with the big boys. I see great things ahead for this team.

    Nov. 27, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    In a word, no.

  • Brad E. HERRIMAN, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:56 p.m.

    @LivinLarge- "Several PAC-12 teams think of Utah as a "practice Squad" or as a "bye-week" in their schedule."
    Yeah right... Like Stanford did? How about Oregon St? How about Arizona St? How about Arizona? How about UCLA? All of those games were within a single score. The only cupcakes on Utah's schedule this year- BYU, Weber St. Those were the only "guaranteed" cupcake wins for the U this year.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    I'm as hopeful as anyone that the Utes will become more successful, but have to admit that it's just that--hope.

    For those who believe it's a foregone conclusion, I'm anxious to hear the plan. Utah came into the PAC-12 as the 10th most desirable market (better than Corvallis and Pullman), with facilities that were probably 10th in the league as well.

    All the "upgrading" going on, while good and necessary, will not likely result in those facilities leapfrogging anyone else's in the conference. Everyone get PAC-12 money and everyone has already upgraded or is upgrading their facilities.

    Unless a recruit has a Utah tie, Utah with be the 9th or 10th choice for anyone good enough to warrant offers from all the schools. Teams with bad coaching can loose with superior talent (e.g. UCLA for years) but teams with lesser talent are not likely to win consistently against better talent.

    The Utes are well coached. Occasionally, they can win against superior talent but I don't see an objective reason to believe (rather than hope)that their talent will ever be in the top half of the conference.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    Didn't read all the post (after all, this is about Utah) but I must say the following:

    Chris B---Wrong yet again. There were 5 teams in the Big 12 that said NO to Larry. After he invited Colorado he needed another team to make 12 so the Utes were invited. No one ever thought Utah and Colorado were good for competition but were great to make certain a PAC 12 Championship could be held. Utah was team #12 of 12 (after 5 snubs).

    Those who say that Utah "was in every game but two" apparently didn't watch the WSU game last weekend. Utah NEVER led, not even once and at one point they were 21 points behind. That isn't being in the game. If it lasted another 4 or 5 hours maybe you'd have tied the score, but I doubt it. And the game where they went for a 2-point conversion and failed, then lost by one point---maybe they were in that one but shot themselves in the foot. Stark reality.

    I'm happy to see them in the PAC 12 (BCS CONFERENCE) because there is no longer any BCS. They did that to themselves because the BCS looked silly every year on their own.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    Spokane Ute, my nephew who plays for Arizona refers to the U as a team that doesn't really belong in the PAC-12.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:23 p.m.

    Losing in a big pond is much better than winning in a small pond. The U will win in the PAC12 - it takes a few years before recruiting catches up. Playing UCS and Standford at home is a bit better than playing Colorado State and New Mexico I would say.

  • jbp Yorba Linda, CA
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    There are so many Ute fans saying they would rather watch a game that they lose against a good opponent (i.e. UCLA), than watch them win a game against what they perceive as an inferior opponent (i.e. New Mexico). Some state they also had more fun seeing them lose against a better team than beating an inferior team by 40. To me this sounds much like a fan base that is beginning to expect losing. Whatever team I am a fan of, in any sport, I expect to watch my team win. Anything less than a win is not fun for me. Winning at any level is fun and losing at any level is NOT fun!!! The only way you can have fun when your team loses, is when you suspect that the loss is a possibility and have come to accept that before watching the game, even if you act confident like Chris B, who acts overconfident to protect his fear of reality. Maybe many of you did have more fun, but that just means your are not a true fan, but rather, one that wants to be entertained.

  • Zatarra ,
    Nov. 27, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    Ask the question, "What do you think about Kentucky Football?" The obvious response is, "Who?" Kentucky has been in the mighty SEC, allegedly the nation's strongest, greatest football conference (blah, blah), since 1946. The last time they were ranked nationally was 1984. The last time they finished in the SEC conference's top 3 was 1993. The last time they finished first in the conference was a tie in 1976. The term cellar dweller isn't just a derogatory name. For some, it's reality. The next time you want to boast about your membership in a mighty conference, ask the question "What do you think about Kentucky Football?" If you think it's better to be 0-12 in the PAC than 12-0 elsewhere, put that along side Kentucky's 23 losing seasons in the past 30 years. Of course many will say apples and oranges, but it's really not. Power conference alone really means nothing more than lots of money from TV deals. That's about it.

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    The important issue in my mind is to have teams of equal resources in the same conference where one has the chance to be competitive each season. Arizona State is a perfect Pac 12 member because of size and great location in a large metropolitan area which plays big in recruiting. Utah will always be handicapped by awful winters! ASU was able to rise to be competitive in the PAC whereas Utah, to date, has not been able to do so and will always be at a disadvantage recruiting against the majority of the PAC 12 teams. But at an advantage recruiting against my Aggies!

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:50 p.m.


    I see your point, and I just chose those games from game BYU lost and Utah won.

    The reality is, while yes, I hate missing out on a bowl game 2 years in a row, I am enjoying being a Utah fan more now than ever, and I think most Utah fans would agree.

    I would think that BYU fans would rather be Indy as well. While it was a fairly weak slate of home games for BYU, it'll get better, and ultimately the competition that BYU will face will be better than it was while in the MWC.

    The only person who would vote for either side to go back to the way it was is probably related to Craig Thompson.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    There's no way I would go back to the MWC.

    It is more enjoyable watching Utah compete against quality opponents than watching them line up against below average teams on a regular basis.

    Of course I wish the Utes had won more frequently in the Pac 12 over the last three seasons, but I believe they will become more competitive as they develop/recruit more depth and talent in the future.

    Go Utes. Finish the season with a win!

  • jpc53 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    Doug makes a big assumption in thinking that Utah (I'm a Utah fan) would still be the big fish in a not so small pond. The Mountain West was adding Boise State and the conference did have TCU and BYU. The Mountain West, had it stayed together, would have been a very competitive conference with four teams capable of beating each other if they didn't bring their A game every weekend.
    Yes watching the Utes the last three seasons, except when they played BYU, has been painful. But as has been said elsewhere they were more competitive this year, beating a top 5 team and having close games against 2 of the 4 other rated teams they played. I think they made the right move, not just for athletic (money) reasons but also for academic reasons. The PAC 12 is thought of much more highly than the MWC in terms of academics and that will help getting better students and more academic grants. I see it as a long term win-win.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:09 p.m.

    tucson, AZ

    I do have to chuckle over the comments of Utes fans I read here at the time of the Pac-12 move. They were talking about Utah and USC perennially dominating the conference. My how times have changed!

    You took me down memory lane, azreader1. My memories of these boards at the time of the invite are a little bit different than yours, however. I remember thinking, "my goodness, Utah County is on suicide watch."

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    Marysville, WA

    You just copy and paste your comments, don't you. LOL!

    Brad J
    West Jordan, UT

    Don't you love the picture for this article. It says it all.

    Do you know what that photo tells me, Brad? It says that the BCS is, indeed, legitimate and that there is a world of difference between BCS talent and the other guys. Utah is getting to that level but the rest of you...only dreaming.

  • That's A Good One Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    As a PAC-12 fan I'd find it much easier to welcome Utah to the conference if it wasn't for the incessant arrogance surrounding their entry and all the proud insinuations that USC was going to be their only real obstacle to the Rose Bowl. It has been good to see reality set in over the past three years. I don't wish bad on the Utes, but it doesn't hurt my feelings at all to see them wallow at the bottom and have to earn their way up to being competitive after realizing that their not near what they thought they were three years ago.

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    Again, the only ones worked up over this and Utah's Pac 12 record to date is BYU fans. Would Utah fans like things to be better- of course. Eventually the QB thing will get fixed, the O line will settle down and Utah will be competing. Even with the near misses this year it's been fun and better than Nevada and Idaho State in November.

    BB is just about there and the frantic comments by ByU fans over Utah's pre-conference schedule has been amusing. Utah will definitely compete in BB this year.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    South Jordan, Utah

    "Nah - Ute fans love flying their PAC12 banners & flags. Funny that I am not seeing nearly as many Utah flags flying from cars / homes however. Wonder why that is?

    If you don't have a team at least you have a conference!"

    You know, much of what you say is correct. Being a member of the Pac-12 is far, far more than just sports.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    I'm with Chris B on this one. For decades I have wanted BYU to get in the PAC - for 3 main reasons:

    1- Better competition makes you play better over time, gets you better recruits, which raises your level
    2- The PAC is where the LDS fan base and recruiting base are
    3- The PAC cities (esp. LA, Bay Area, Phoenix, Seattle) have the largest media audiences in the West. Playing in Nevada,
    Boise, Logan doesn't do it. Wisconsin, Notre Dame, U Texas, Houston are a good start but it's not the same as an
    annual league matchup.

    I just don't get the whiny "this is soooooo hard" mentality. We (BYU) have acted for so many years like we are world beaters. Fact is, we've never played consistently at a high level. Neither has Utah. Undefeated in the MWC means nothing. But if you play with the big boys every week, you eventually have the opportunity to become as good as they are. Kudo's to Utah for earning their way to a very nice club!!

    Now, Utes, if you have truly moved on, can you really let go the obsession with BYU?

  • Dunedain PROVO, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:56 p.m.


    I can see what you're saying and I have a couple thoughts.

    One, its not a completely fair comparison of the BYU/Utah game to the BYU/Idaho State because one is a rivalry game and the other isn't. Rivalries are something in and of itself in my opinion and can't be compared to other games because rivalries are so unique and unlike other college football game (see some of the ESPN college football podcasts from this week)

    Second, fun is in the eye of the beholder so we're arguing about abstract concepts that can't fully be conveyed through language. Look i'll admit that Idaho State isn't a great team but I left that game with a better taste in my mouth than any of our losses. Of course losses are just a part of the sport,if you couldn't you shouldn't be a fan.

    I think Doug's point was equating fun with memorable. The Utes BCS runs were memorable. For us, Cougs the great last second wins against you guys and and those conference champion seasons were memorable. These last few years weren't.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    "There is no buyers remorse at the University of Utah"

    Well of course there isn't. But has anybody asked Larry Scott lately about buyer's remorse from the conference? I'm sure they're all thrilled for this weeks marque rivalry game "The Pillow Fight In The Rockies For Basement Apartment Rights" It's undoubtedly embarrassing for the conference.

    I'll bet television ratings are through the roof for this one. If there's a game on regional TV and nobody actually turns it on to watch, did it really happen?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:49 p.m.


    Was one of those teams Stanford?

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    This year, the University of Utah Utes played the most difficult and exciting schedule in the nation. We beat one of the best teams in college football in what was one of the biggest wins in the history of football in this state. And if we beat Colorado, we'll come away with more wins this season that any of the experts predicted, despite ongoing QB issues.

    It's a work in progress, as expected. But it's fun to progress.

    No, we do not in any way "yearn for the Mountain West."

    Though it's clear from the comments, and the article itself, that byu fans do.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    Well of course we don't want to go back to the MWC. What would we do with all of our PAC-12 basement window stickers?

  • BluedevilUte PAYSON, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    I love the PAC 12! If Utah was getting blown out every week I'd miss the MWC, but that's not the case. Utah could and should be 8-4. If Utah goes undefeated they have a legitmate shot at playing for a championship whereas before, Utah went 12-0 and 13-0 and still didn't get the chance. If wake forest or Vanderbilt went undefeated they would also play for a title. Boise, BYU,Fresno, USU, Houston, you have no chance. Sorry, it's all about conference affiliation in today's college football.

  • azreader1 tucson, AZ
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    I do have to chuckle over the comments of Utes fans I read here at the time of the Pac-12 move. They were talking about Utah and USC perennially dominating the conference. My how times have changed!

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    Fair question. As a Ute fan it has been hard watching my team have it's lunch eaten most weeks. My answer to the question: Yes and no. I do miss having 8, 9, 10 win seasons with the occasional undefeated season. It was fun!! I don't miss seeing Wyoming, New Mexico, CSU but enjoy watching the USCs, Oregons, and Stanfords of the world come to SLC almost every year. However if things don't turn around and we can't at least become partially competitive ( 4 or 5 conference wins) it'll be hard to be a fan. I'm a diehard and will always watch them and cheer them on, win or lose, but it'd be nice if they could right this PAC ship. I'd rather not my team be Washington State's replacement as the whipping boy.

  • UPAC12 Colorado Springs , CO
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    As a Ute fan I would rather lose to Arizona State 19-20 than beat Wyoming 44-10 any-day. This is more than a few year building process! It will take the Utes at least 5 years to be competitive in the 2nd best conference in college football. That should not come as a surprise. If Utah played BYU's schedule a bowl game would be a forgone conclusion. But then again do we want to go down to the wire with UCLA and Arizona State and beat #5 Stanford or destroy Idaho State, Nevada, Virginia and so on... I say play big-time football even if it takes time to build a strong enough foundation for success. Utah is a great place and well postured for the future. Remember the old saying "all good things come in TIME" Go Ute s- Go PAC!

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    Short answer, yes, I'm having more fun as a fan of both the U and the Y. There are now 10 interesting games a year for the U and 8 for the Y, compared to about 3 in the WAC, MWC days.

    And as many have mentioned, those 10 games for the U were entertaining as were all 8 of the Y games.

    It will, of course, be more fun when, and if, there are more wins in future seasons.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    Dunedain, while I understand what you are saying, I respectfully disagree.

    Ask yourself if you had more fun at the Utah/BYU game or the Idaho State/BYU game?

    I will tell you I had A LOT more fun at the UCLA and Oregon St. game than I did at the Weber St. game.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Several PAC-12 teams think of Utah as a "practice squad" or as a "bye-week" in their schedule. Sad, very sad for Wasatch Front football fans! No rivalries, just losses to look forward to.

  • Brad J West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:52 p.m.

    Don't you love the picture for this article. It says it all

  • the REAL DEAL Sandy, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    Although winning more would be nice I would never want Utah to be in the MWC again. Utah will be a winning program again. They are learning what it takes to get there. They are very close. Utah st. And byu on the other hand aren't even close to where the utes were when they left for the Pac12.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    1: As a lifelong west-coaster and USC fan, I've had all the PAC I can stand. As an ardent BYU fan (who roots blue whenever they play USC), I was loudly opposed to the notion that BYU would be a good fit in the PAC. Those feelings only deepen as time goes by, now surrounded by Husky and Wassou fans.

    2: As someone who has gone to comical lengths in the past to try to sneak a BYU game on the local church building's satellite system or to park up in the mountains after dark to try to catch KSL and listen to a night game, but who now has BYUtv and ESPN, there is absolutely no comparison.

    I get that some Cougar season ticket holders are bummed that not every home game is played at 1:00 on Saturday afternoon anymore, but for me and, I wager, the tens of thousands of Cougar Faithful spread all over the country and the world, life is an order of magnitude better independent.

    And the icing on the cake is the new distance between BYU and UU. I have never considered BYU a "Utah School." Good riddance to that.

  • Dunedain PROVO, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    All the arguments are not answering the real question he posed if you read the article. The question was are you having more fun?

    I would suggest that the losing seasons say no. Go ahead spin that however you want to make yourself feel better ("we're seeing better teams in the games, etc"). The fact is a loss is a loss and no bowls are no bowls.

    As BYU fan I would say the same thing. The independence thing is cool but losing the big games isn't fun in the end. But it was fun to win the MWC despite its lack of national relevance like we did in 06 and 07. Winning is always funner then losing and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

    Remember the question was are you having more fun? Not are we glad we made the move for all the other reasons like money and exposure.

  • romeisn'tburning layton, ut
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:38 p.m.


  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    I think Utah will get better over time, perhaps not soon enough to save Coach Whitingham's job however? As a BYU fan, I think BYU faces some of the same challenges that Utah does playing respectable schedules against good teams as an independent. Perhaps Coach Mendenhall's seat is going to get pretty warm if he doesn't stop losing to the Notre Dames and Wisconsin's of the world? Both of these proud football programs expect to compete favorably against other good teams. We fans expect that too, and for coaches pulling down 1-2 million dollar salaries per year, they need to deliver or changes need to be made. At least BYU is going to a bowl game again this year. If they win, it an OK (not great) season. Go Cougs!

  • romeisn'tburning layton, ut
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:20 p.m.

    Yawn, another cooked up peace on the University of Utah by a newspaper owned by the same church that owns their former rival.

    There is no buyers remorse at the University of Utah. The past couple years have been rough but none of this was unexpected. I like the comparisons to Wake Forrest, but if you consider the fact that Wake Forrest was founding member of the ACC it doesn't make any sense.

    Instead, look at the University of South Carolina. The Gamecocks haven't won a conference football championship since joining the SEC 20 years ago. Do they wish to return to the ACC? Nope. Does their lack of championships make them irrelevant? Nope. Did they have a period of losing seasons entering their new conference? Yep.

    As much a Y fans wish the Utes to fail, the reality is that we have already succeeded. We are in a big boy club, the very big boy club BYU begged to accept it, and we didn't get their on luck alone. Enjoy your trip to Murfreesboro next year, everyone is so impressed.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    On a Ute fan website the question was asked to choose between PAC-12 membership or rather return to MWC. Of 96 votes so far - 1 selected to return. So despite what the media tries to stir-up or BYU fans saying how horrible PAC-12 membership would be.... the fact is 98%+ Ute fans would trade our PAC-12 membership for anything!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    If you took an honest poll of the Ute Program and it's fans you would get an overwhelming "NO REGRETS". I don't believe that byu and it's fans have any regrets either.

    Although, interestingly, I think that if both teams had stayed in the MWC, Utah would be the undefeated conference champion and on their way to another BCS bowl. byu would be 11-1 and on their way to a quality bowl.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @ Crow, I cheer for the Aggies, not BYU.

    I am not saying any school would fare any better than utah in the pac. What I am saying is the pac does NOT make the team.

    ute fans thought the pac would make them better, it doesn't. Utah is the same team. Kyle is the same coach, he is not a better coach because of the pac.

    Big conferences are full of bottom dwelling bad teams. Those teams don't beat their chest just because they are in a big conference.

    Do I hope utah makes it? Sure I do, would be cool to see.

    Until they do, as long as utah fans keep waving the We Are Great banner, when they aren't there yet... ute fans should expect detractors.

    You had 2 bad seasons in a row, just own them and move on. But instead of doing that, chrisb and others try to mock and make fun of anyone else in order to try and hide the bad seasons.

    As long as that continues, be ready to handle the onslaught...

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    Summation of comments so far: Not one Utah fan would trade PAC-12 membership for any other suggested alternatives. Add my opinion to those expressed above. Non-Utah fans suggest different mystical conference alignments, there op[inion of how disappointed Utes fans should be, etc. but the Utah fans know what we have and we LOVE it!

    (If I had more space I would express my thoughts on the imagined league with Boise State, TCU, BYU, Utah, and others. It could have happened and it would have led to a realignment of the BCS conference teams. I feel that is one reason TCU, Boise State, and Utah was offered membership in the conferences they joined (only to have Boise State return to the MWC) I emphasis it is only one of the reasons, in my opinion, Utah was admitted to the PAC-12!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    Now instead of we are going to go to the Rose Bowl every single year and compete for NC's, ute fans now just spout conference affiliation. I guess this means Illinois and Indiana are really good teams too just "almost" there LOL

    Nov. 27, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    As a Utah fan I would hate to go back to the MWC. 2004 and 2008 were both very fun years but they were filled with crappy games that weren't much fun to watch. Utah had a tough year but I can't think of a single game they played other then Weber State that wasn't fun to watch. When Utah left for the Pac-12 I suspected it would take a few years to really get their legs under them so I'm not upset by what has happened the last 3 years. Looking forward to Colorado and excited to see what the Utes are able to do in this conference.
    Go Utes!!!

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    Whether you are a fan of BYU or Utah, we need to see things for what they are. Neither BYU or Utah will truly be able to compete with the top BCS schools because of the money factor. Utah might get more of it, but it still pales in comparison to the amount of money that is spent on athletic budgets at USC, UCLA, Oregon and Stanford. Believe it or not, even hate it a bit, but money buys wins.

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    @ Ifel Of'a-sofa

    The Pac12 has been rated as the toughest conference this year and it is tough to win week in and week out. The toughness of the conference took a toll on the teams and caused several loses for some teams. I know you would not understand because you are a fan of an inferior independent team that only plays cupcakes to pad their wins, but when they play BCS caliber competition their true colors come out and they lose because they are not the team you dream they are.

    BYU would not fair any better then Utah if they were in the PAC because they can not recruit the speed necessary at the skill positions. Your line has been suspect for the past few years.

    Utah has upgraded their facility for football and it has shown in the commitments that they have gotten this year from Florida and Louisiana. Now with the new basketball facility being built look for them to become a National team again. Good days to be a Ute fan.

  • ChristoperB Salt Lake, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:29 a.m.


    No, the Pac 12 would not be part of the 4 team playoff.

    And outside of Boise, will the WAC 2.0 EVER be part of it?


  • ChristoperB Salt Lake, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:28 a.m.


    And our same size fish is STILL bigger than your "big fish in a small pond"


  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    Didn't even need to read the article. The answer is simply ... not in the slightest.

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    You know, people like to compare Utah to Arizona or ASU, but neither of those teams were true standouts before their integration into the PAC. They were chose because the PAC-8 was looking to expand, and they were the two schools that were all-around better than anyone else in the region, and bringing them in made sense. Conferences select schools, not specific programs. Anyone who thought that our football program was going to be sitting at the top of the PAC within the first 5 years were kidding themselves! Not when you're in arguably the best conference in the country! The polls love the SEC, but I think in an all-around match-up, the PAC would dominate - hands down! Success will come, but it will take time to get the talent to do it. It may not mean more wins, but for the University at large, it was a better move!

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    If Ute fans had been honest with themselves when they were invited to the PAC10, they would have known that they were being being used by that league as a schedule filler and an in-league "cupcake" for the big boys. Does anybody on the hill really believe that the Utes will ever be a serious contender for anything but first place in the bottom six? Utah's big prize was being invited, period. That they are in denial about why is another question.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    the mighty pac 12... if the 4 team playoff were to happen this year, they would not even have a team involved.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:12 a.m.


    What's it like not to have either?

  • Deamon North Logan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    I for one an happy that BYU and Utah left the MWC, or Utah State would never have gotten in and we'd be the independent team right now. They effectively kept the Aggies out of any conference they were in for over 40 years so I'm not sad to see them elsewhere.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    the utes want to talk about the close loses as being "almost there", what they don't talk about is the close wins that could just have easily been loses... ie Utah State

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    Chris - what you are missing is that you are the same size fish as you were before... the pond size does not make the fish bigger.

  • BornBrave Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    USALover, I agree! The MWC (or new name) could have become a great conference with natural rivals. Instead Utah followed the money and perceived prestige. BYU was forced to leave for their own selfish reasons. The rest of the MWC schools got shaken around by other changes. Utah has gone from a high NATIONAL perception to nothing. (And BTW... Whittingham didn't get them there, Urban Meyer did!) BYU NATIONALLY was mid-level in perception/attention and is still about the same. I personally think that time will show that going to the PAC-12 was a huge mistake. Recruiting will be harder due to losing seasons, fans will quit going, heck 25 years ago Utah couldn't draw 20k fans because they always lost. This lack of fan support will return. It's the team, win/loss and to some degree, SOS that ultimately matters, not the conference itself.

  • Daved6 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    The problem is and remains the Ute teams from the last three years is worse than the Ute teams from 08 and around that era. It's not that they are getting any better. Getting less consistent maybe. There is hope. I think Utah can turn things around and hope they do soon.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    I didn't bother to read this article, the title was more than enough for me. It must be slow news day because ideas like this one should never see the light of day.

    Salt Lake City, UT
    "Can you imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno State all in the same Conference?"

    No, I can't. I see Utah in the Pac-12 where they belong and soon being able to compete with every team in the conference. Nor do I see TCU with the other four you listed.

    Mr. Robinson, a more valid question is whether byu fans "yearn" for the MWC days. Maybe you could try that angle.

  • kitsutsuki South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    Nah - Ute fans love flying their PAC12 banners & flags. Funny that I am not seeing nearly as many Utah flags flying from cars / homes however. Wonder why that is?

    If you don't have a team at least you have a conference!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:50 a.m.


    Once again byu fans miss the issue. I want Utah to be the best program we can be. And a 5-7 program in the Pac 12 is better than a 10-2 program in the WAC 2.0. Utah beat Utah state when both teams were full strength, and the Pac 12 is 9-0 against the lowly WAC 2.0(MWC) this year.

    Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Stanford, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, UCLA, and USC would all probably win the WAC 2.0 if we were a member of that conference.

    But we don't want to be.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    I think a lot of Utes do, especially those who say
    "Mark it down!"

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    Two words: Heck. No.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    Can you imagine Utah, BYU, Boise State, TCU, Utah State and Fresno State all in the same Conference?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    I don't miss it. I would rather see Utah play Arizona St, or UCLA and lose in a good hard fought game; then watch them throttle New Mexico or Wyoming. Outside of the USC and Oregon game, Utah was in every game and all of the games were great to watch. I wish the results were differn't and a bowl game was forthcoming, but that's the way it goes. The ASU and Oregon State games really hurt Utah; both were oh so winnable. I also don't miss that horrible network the Mountain. Every game was televised, and the PAC 12 channel is in HD on COMCAST.

  • BarkforSark PROVO, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    The thing I'd be worried most about if I was a Utes fan is apathy. There's a reason teams like Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, rarely if ever competed in the Mountain West when BYU and Utah were there. They understood their role as the conference doormats and that they probably were never going to be able to expect better. This is what Utah is in the Pac-12 and once that realization sets in things are really going to get ugly.

    And all for what? To make some extra money and be able to say you're in a BCS conference? Hope it's worth it.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    Chris B is of the opinion that going 0-12 while being in the Pac 12 every year is somehow better than going 12-0 anywhere else.

    I think that most people are more rational. Being in a "big league" doesn't mean squat, if you never win. Who cares about UConn in football? Rutgers? Temple, for that matter? Washington State?

    These are all "Big league" teams, just like Utah. Vanderbilt, a member of the mighty SEC. Who cares?

    Who's more respected: Boise State, or Wake Forest? Wake Forest is in the ACC. Boise State isn't. Who has more cachet on the football stage?

    Utah is the Wake Forest of the Pac 12. I think it's not been a good thing for the fans. Sure helps pays Wittingham's salary though.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    BYU has won as many PAC 12 Championships as every sport.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    Not at all.

    Games have been fun to watch and very competitive. Hopefully, a few of these close losses will turn to wins.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    The funny thing about the lame big fish small fish thing everyone likes to mention is that the small fish in the big pond is still bigger than the big fish in the small pond. So yes, every school wants to be the biggest fish they can be. And if being a smaller(compared to your conference) fish is STILL bigger than the big fish in the WAC 2.0(MWC) I'll take that any day.

    There is exactly one school and one school only in the ENTIRE country that is a non power conference school that wouldn't JUMP if Larry Scott and the Pac 12 told them to, and that school is Notre Dame.

    A couple years ago, even last year, we weren't in the games against the best teams. This year, we were in the OSU, ASU, and UCLA games down to the very last play.

    Whittingham has already proven he can take us to top 5 in the nation, and he'll do it again.

    And until then, we're still bigger than the "big fish" in provo and logan.

    Go Utes!