[UtahBlueDevil - Alfred, you comment about Obama increasing the bent in raw
numbers more than any other president is one of those "duh" type
statements... it is the effect of inflation.]I take your point...
but, applying inflation rates over time gives essentially the same results."And math and averages has it the next president - whether
Republican or Democrat - will do likewise after."Not if its a
Republican... who will cut the budget to produce a surplus similar to
Clinton's in 2000/01.[Commodore - Tax cuts don't create
jobs, consumer demand creates jobs.]Too funny!!Consumer
demand is driven by more money in consumers' pockets. No money to demand
with... no demand. And more money for the consumer usually comes from tax cuts.
Vikki,Tax cuts don't create jobs, consumer demand creates jobs.
I would recommend government stop pandering to big corporations because
republicans have been deluded into thinking tax cuts= job creation. Wrong.
Alfred… you comment about Obama increasing the bent in raw numbers more
than any other president is one of those "duh" type statements….
it is the effect of inflation. You can make that statement just about ever
president out there - Republican or Democrat.And math and averages
has it the next president - whether Republican or Democrat - will do likewise
after.The real issue is debt to overall gap ratio, which is a far
better measure, and which there is something there critiquing about.
[Pagan - You cannot say either, about Obama.]Obama increased the
nation debt more than all the other presidents added together, ~$7 trillion.[Ernest T. Bass - ...along with 2 unnecessary wars.]You
should be pinging the folks who voted to use military force in Iraq... including
Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, & Joe Biden.
Medicare for all. Other countries have a single payer system and they have
superior or comparable health results while spending much less than we do!
As a person whose life revolves around math, curves, and all the like, I must
say I am not a big fan of the old bell curve, because in reality if really
doesn't apply to all situations. Fore example, there is no reason why in
academics that the bell curve need apply - in that there is no reason why most
students should not work with the expectation that all will master a subject.That said, for today, the bell curve is a reality in economics. Without
a proper distribution of incomes across the spectrum, you can not have a
functioning society. You must value certain jobs by the economic value they
provide. It is that cold and that simple. At some point in time, many of
these jobs will continue to go away through automation. That
doesn't mean that society should not take care of those on the bottom end
of the economic spectrum. Basics of life should be available to all -
regardless of economic status. Healthcare, education... should be available to
all. A big house, expensive car... no. But being on the bottom of the society
latter should not equate to a lack of personal dignity.
There is high unemployment because the labor surplus has grown so much in recent
years. It seems to have become impossible to increase employment and improve
wages because jobs are being eliminated faster than created. The reasons:
Automation, Mechanization, Off-shoring, higher percentage of working women and
military personnel reduction. Additionally millions of foreign legal and illegal
workers are added to the American workforce each year.Due to these
forces the present 8% unemployment will likely become the new normal full
employment rate, often going even higher. The unemployment rate and under
employment rate is near 15 percent, and will require more and more taxpayer
subsidy.In order to improve the employment picture the problem must
be seen as not only a shortage of jobs, but also as a surplus of labor. In order
to prevent unemployment from going above 10 or 15 percent. Not only creating
jobs must be addressed but also reducing the number of workers. U.S
female fertility rate is already below 2.1 the replacement rate, down now below
1.9 births per female. Since births are already in slow decline other options
such as a large reductions in foreign legal and illegal workers, and reduction
in hours worked are needed.
And in the meantime, we are paying zillions to "refurbish" the entire
fleet of F-16 fighters which were to have been retired as the F-35 came into
service.Why?Because the F-35 -- the most expensive
airplane ever in the entire world, both in construction and operational costs
and one the Pentagon did not want in the first place but was forced by Congress
to accept -- is not performing up to promised standards. Get this
-- the F-35 is, according to Air and Space Magazine, "still being developed
even as it enters service." An Air Force pilot assigned to the new plane
complained that even though he is supposed to be an ordinary fighter pilot,
"Anyone who flies the thing is still a test pilot."Yup.Government cost control at its finest.And which political
party shoved this thing down the throats of American taxpayers?If
you guessed Grand Opposition Party, you're right.But remember,
they are saving money for us . . . . . somehow.
Washington DC suburbs increasing affluence is largely a result of corporate
lobbyists, lawyers and govt contracts in areas like information technology. "While official workforce figures have gone down in recent decades,
use of government contractors has exploded, especially in the defense sector
following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.In fiscal 2000, the government
spent $208 billion on contractors. In fiscal 2009, that figure was up more than
150 percent, to $540 billion. If you consider government contractors
federal employees and view grantees -- like universities -- as employing people
on behalf of the federal government ("Nuclear labs are run by universities,
but are clearly federal agencies," said Light), the numbers have
rocketed."Connolly says the the size of the federal
government's workforce has not grown much since 1990. Based on the
official numbers he sources, he’s safe. But there are two
definitions of "federal workforce": 1) Public servants working directly
for the government and earning benefits, or 2) "everyone who gets their
paycheck directly from Uncle Sam or through contracts and other purchasing
vehicles."...the increased use of government contractors, which
has allowed the number of federal bureaucrats to decline."(Politifact)Utah ranks in the top 10 for number of federal
employees per capita.(Wallethub)
We started a business here in Nevada a few years back. We hired caregivers to
care for seniors in their homes; a service greatly needed here. The first year
our state license cost us $300. A year or two later it jumped to $3,000 per
year. That was the state of Nevada doing what it could to increase its income
after federal government dollars to Nevada decreased. At our peak, we had 24
employees on our payroll. Then Obamacare was introduced, and we had absolutely
no idea how it would impact us nor the home care industry. None. Neither did
any professionals we consulted. Rather than take the unknown risk, we opted to
close down the business. Sure would be nice if our state and federal government
tried to HELP small businesses, rather than hinder them.
Lots of money in the economy comes from the government spending it somewhere on
something or someone.It's real easy to tell the difference. What is
the company name your paycheck? Contractors are not Government
employees.They are people contracted to complete a specific project, for a
specified compensation. Thus the word contract.Unless you one of the big
boys building jets for billions over your contract, and years late...totally
Redshirt, You seem to be referring to a subgroup of contractors who
sit alongside government workers performing support tasks and other
"non-inherently governmental functions," or what the Pentagon calls SETA
support. The "shadow workforce" Bush surged so that he could fight two
wars while at the same time claiming that he wasn't increasing government.
Right?I hate to be the one to break it to you, but those are
precisely the contractors who are getting pounded right now. These folks are
some of my neighbors, people I attend church with, people I see at my kids'
school. A few of them have already been laid off, the rest are terrified
because they all know how vulnerable they are because they're being shed
due to shrinking budgets. They all realize that the govies won't even
think about a "reduction in force" for their own employees until the
last one of them is already out of the building. Whatever studies
you're looking at right now are dated; this is happening right now. The
contractor workforce isn't what it was a few years ago and most of them see
the writing on the wall.
To "Unreconstructed Reb" what few studies out there that I can find all
show that there is an increasing number of contract employees.Contract employees are people working in government offices, and acting on
behalf of the government.
Vickie - Barack said his goal was to fundamentally change America and now you
smell it - the full stench of what he foretold. The poster child is the
"un"-afordable care act. Obamacare is worse than even the biggest
protesters ever dreamed it would be and we are just getting started. The goal
for Barack was always turning America into a Socialist state like Greece and
France and other now desperate and bankrupt Socialist countries. Take a long
hard look at Detroit. That city is the symbol of what liberalism produces and
you will see other cities follow Detroit in the coming years. Liberalism like
cancer must be stopped and destroyed before it reaches critical mass otherwise
there is no reversing it and the end result is always the same. Death. In case
you haven't realized it yet - America is dying. Seventeen trillion in debt
and growing - 8 trillion of that is from Barack all by himself. Take care of
your family and yourself the best you can. Store food and other essentials and
get out of debt the best you can. Prophetic words which will be needed in the
coming months and years.
Redshirt, 1) The number of government contractors is also down
sharply in recent years. Government isn't trimming employees and bringing
in contractors, it's cutting slots entirely.2) How would you
classify contractors -- public or private sector? The big ones are corporate
giants like Lockheed, Boeing, and Northrop-Grumman, with shareholders, DJIA
stock, and hundreds of thousands of employees. The small ones, in their many
thousands, are your regular small businesses. Is it possible to argue that
these aren't in the private sector? Is it possible to argue that these
companies create a net economic drag? Is it possible to argue that slashing the
money spent on them would boost the economy? I'm deeply skeptical. (Not that I'm arguing contractors have no inefficiencies, just that
their role isn't understood by most of the "Cut spending!!!"
crowd.)Some complain about contractors getting tax dollars, but the
truth is that the economy doesn't care what the source of a dollar is, it
only cares about generating positive economic activity. The very computer
you're reading this on and the internet that brings it to you are products
of the complex interface between public and private economic sectors.
"And, their disingenuous suggestion of conservative paranoia is proof
positive of their own mania."Nope, I'm being genuine when
observing paranoid conservatives comments about the government being out to get
you...now...that democrat is president, and if I forget that "We are the
government."You know what's unaffordable in America? The conservative agenda of redistributing all money and property to 1% of
American's and then complaining that the poor are the problem.I see where some use facts others use radio math.
To "Vicki" don't worry, the government is already comitted to doing
all it can to help job creation. Ever since 2009, Obama has repeatedly
(especially during the State of the Union address) let us know that his top
priority is job growth.Just look at what dear Leader's record
is. In January 2009 the labor participation rate was 65.6%, and now thanks to
the high priority that the Obama Administration has given it it is now 62.8%.Right now, lets just settle on the government stopping its efforts. It
would be best for them to do nothing for a while. Best would be for government
to cut back the regulations that do little to nothing and let businesses
work.To "Unreconstructed Reb" yes the total number of
government employees is shrinking, but the government offices are being filled
with contractors. That means that the total federal employee numbers are
misleading because it doesn't reflect how many people work in the
To Roland, who said: "Corporate profits are at an all time high in the U.S.
Obviously it is not as impossible to manage a profitable business as some of you
think....Our top marginal tax rates are the highest, but our effective tax rates
are among the lowest in the developed world...."So what you are
basically saying is that if you are already a mega-corporation with an army of
tax attorneys and accountants who can find every loophole in the mountains of
tax code and a ton of lobbyist influence in Washington, then you can do very
well under the current system of crony capitalism.But if you are a
small businessman who is trying to turn a great idea into a profitable business,
then you have Mt. Everest to climb. Some daring climbers will make the attempt
and a few will be successful enough to reach the summit, but the majority will
look at what it takes and decide it is not worth the effort to them.
Employers shouldn't have anything to do with health care.
Pagan says:"Reagan tripled the national debt. Bush doubled the
national debt. You cannot say either, about Obama." No we can't say
that about Obama, but we can say however he has added more debt than ALL other
presidents before him COMBINED, nearly doubling what it was before.Pagan
says:"16,000 point dow. A new record." Because the federal
gov't is spending billions a day to prop up the market. Like many middle
class people in America today I have no savings and no retirement accounts
because the Obama economy has destroyed my profession and related professions
and I have had to use the above mentioned accounts to survive. I no longer have
any money in the stock market. I fear the next 3 three years, especially if
Obamacare isn't repealed.
PaganYou keep talking about Reagan tripled and Bush doubled the
national debt. That is a meaningless statistic. The only important statistic
is the amount of the current national debt, not the percentage of increase.
With Reagan we were talking billions, not trillions. Here is a good way to look
at it. If the national debt is 1 dollar and a president brings it up to 3
dollars, he tripled it. However if the national debt is 10 trillion dollars
(under Bush) and a president increases it by 7 trillion dollars, (as Obama has)
which is the more damaging? And, Pagan, you do see that at the rate Obama is
increasing it, he will likely have doubled the debt by the time he leaves
office. His first 7 trillion has been only after 5 years in office. We will
likely be in the 19 trillion area when Obama leaves office.
Since government jobs have been brought up, it should be noted, as
FreedomFighter41 has, that the number of federal employees is trending downward
after a small rise in Obama's first term. With sequestration imposing
hiring freezes and downsizing by attrition, that trend is likely to continue.
The total number of federal employees is still almost a million
fewer than at the end of Reagan's presidency.In 1962, there
were 5.3 million federal employees. Today there are 4.4 million. To put that
in perspective, when the country's population was 60% smaller than it is
now, it had 20% more federal workers than there are today.Taking all
local, state, and federal employees as a percentage of the US population under
Obama is 6.9%. Under the 4 previous administration, that number varied between
7.2 and 7.4 percent.So no, public sector jobs are hardly consuming
more and more of the country's workforce and turning into an unsustainable
drag on private sector wealth creation. The private sector is quite capable of
doing that on its own.
Re: "Oh the 'big bad government' is coming to get you!"It's only out-of-touch, liberal, Big-Government apologists who
can't see the government really IS out to get us.And, their
disingenuous suggestion of conservative paranoia is proof positive of their own
Vicki,Thanks for being the one who finally says, The king has no clothes.
Roland KayserThen why is the average government job now the best
paid and benefited in the U.S.? Government workers are now making a better
living than their private sector counterparts. Why is the part of the country
that is least hit by recession the government? If there are fewer employees in
government, I'll bet it is coming from the military dropping people.
That's how Bill Clinton claimed to reduce the size of government. I
doubt, as you kind imply, that there are many GS workers who have lost jobs.
Especially under Obama. And remember, the unemployment rate at around 7 to 8
percent, was the same back in 2008, even before Obama took over. As for
corporate profits being all time high, I guess that corelates with an all time
high stock market. Corporations are making a lot of money, and holding it, not
expanding because of their uncertainty with current government policies toward
Vicki, Vicki, Vicki. $6000. That is the number that the average middle class
family pays a year to subsidize the real welfare queens. The corporation. $1200
of it is loss of revenue subsidies to corporations stashing cash overseas. $1200
is for being overcharged for medications ie, Medicare Part D which is prohibited
from negotiating with drug companies. There are state and local subsidies which
Utah uses regularly to draw businesses. The much ballyhooed NSA complex is
receiving a massive break on their water bill, something your side gave away to
draw it here. All this while the average Joe has not seen a significant increase
in income in 30 years. Your businesses are flourishing the employee is not. 1 in
close to 5 is going to bed hungry and all you got to say is they need to go get
a 2nd or 3rd job, since most of those on SNAP have someone in the home working.
Think about it. McDonalds and Walmart actually teach their employees how to
apply for SNAP. Think about it. Your trickle down is a fantasy.
Corporate profits are at an all time high in the U.S. Obviously it is not as
impossible to manage a profitable business as some of you think.Corporate taxes are nowhere near the highest in the world even though
conservatives constantly claim that they are. Our top marginal tax rates are the
highest, but our effective tax rates are among the lowest in the developed
world. People who don't understand the difference between top marginal tax
rates and actual taxes paid should refrain from commenting on tax policy.The federal government has fewer employees today than it did when
President Obama a assumed office. Almost every state and local government has
fewer employees than they did five years ago. If we had all of the government
jobs back, our employment picture would be considerably brighter.
Pagan: "When was the last time a CEO did anything for you?"Answer: Last payday!
happy2bhereclearfield, UTIrony GuyThe bigger a business
gets, the more the government gets involved.9:33 a.m. Nov. 27,
2013========== ...because, That's when
businesses morph over to become CORPORATE welfare.
$1.5 trillion wasted on the failed F-35 fighter plane, along with 2 unnecessary
wars is a big reason for that deficit you mention.If that money was spent
in research and education, the economy would be fixed. Instead the USA goes in
to debt creating new ways to kill people on the other side of the world and
those who complain about the Affordable Care Act and deficits see nothing wrong
Working on the economy? Reagan tripled the national debt. Bush doubled the national debt. You cannot say either, about
Obama. 16,000 point dow. A new record. Up, from the
previous record, 15,000 dow.
"The greatest job creation in the last few years have been government jobs,
especially in areas like Washington D.C."Actually not.
We've seen a net loss in federal government jobs since Obama has taken
over. Please, let facts form your opinions. Allowing opinion to
create facts does absolutely no good to anyone.
"If they would spend as much time working on the economy, creating an
environment in which jobs could be created here in the U.S., people could
actually take care of themselves."Now Vicki knows how I felt
when repubs sought out to rebuild the Middle-East. We don't have enough
money for education, green energy, health care, or anything here. Yet we have
trillions to waste in Afghanistan and Iraq?Say what you want about
Obama, but at least he has focused on Americans. He has focused on attempting to
raise our standard of living. Repubs? Couldn't care less about Americans.
they'd rather give more handouts to the middle-east.
Oh the 'big bad government' is coming to get you! I mean
seriously, have you LOOKED at the alternative? Wellpoint DROPS
Coverage For Some Women With BREAST CANCER' - By Mary Ellen Egan - Forbes
Magazine - 04/23/10 'Yesterday, an investigation by Reuters
revealed that Wellpoint routinely drops coverage of women with breast cancer.
According to the report, Wellpoint used a computer algorithm that automatically
targeted...' When was the last time a CEO did anything for you?
"Our government leaders seem constantly obsessed with coming up with new
ways of taking care of us."Of course to do this they must raise taxes
and they look for any way to tax something we do. Remember the Beatles song
"Taxman" - "If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat, If you get
too cold, I’ll tax the heat, If you take a walk, I’ll tax your
feet." This is the attitude of too many in gov't. And too many who
receive welfare don't care that they are living off the sweat of others.
Gov't officials should have as their FIRST priority the tax payer, not the
tax user, including themselves (the gov't).
Irony GuyHow many people are your two businesses employing? It is
when an employer has a certain number of people employed that the real
regulations and stuff begin to come down on you. Health care, business taxes,
unemployent insurance, SS, OSHA regulations, ect. The bigger a business gets,
the more the government gets involved.
I've started two businesses in the last ten years. I got a tax number. That
was it--no fire-breathing gov't coming down on me. What's so
Mountainman: I agree with most of what you said. While it is not impossible to
start a business, the bar has been raised so high by all the taxes, regulations,
and red tape that you must have a very compelling business model before you dare
start a business or hire new employees.Just like everything else, if
you make it harder to do something you will get less of it. Why start a business
and risk your money and time when government is throwing so many roadblocks in
your way and is reducing the potential reward if you are successful?Many people will still do it, even more won't.
The greatest job creation in the last few years have been government jobs,
especially in areas like Washington D.C. In fact, it was only recently that
having a government job became more profitable, with better benefits, than what
an equal job in the private sector would have offered. The only trouble with
this system of course is that it is unstainable because eventually there will
not be enough wealth creation in the private sector, and resulting taxes, to
sustain the government sector. I wonder when that bubble will burst?
Amen Vicki!!!But there is no love and concern for people driving
these welfare efforts. It is all a ploy to make the elected leadership more
powerful and more re-electable.
@ Ranch, Tried starting a business? Check out all the government regulations
before you do! And now there is Obamacare mandates to comply with! Highest
corporate taxes in the world, OSHA, EPA, unions, zoning laws, building permits,
et al. Why would anyone in their right mind risk their capitol and attempt to
start a business in America? Go ahead and give it a try and you will learn why
nearly everything we buy in America was "Made in China".
Vicki;Why not start a business and create some jobs yourself?