Industries polluting at public expense

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  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    Nov. 29, 2013 7:23 p.m.

    News flash: We're living longer and healthier than ever.

    The sky is NOT falling.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Nov. 29, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    Re: ". . . it is insanity to plan for a doubling of the population in 30 years or so (Wasatch Choices 2040)."

    Anyone so rabidly committed to population control is free to leave anytime he wants.

    Oh, I guess that commitment only applies when it affects other people, huh?

  • joeandrade Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    The Wasatch Front's terrible and unhealthy air is due to people, their cars, their actions - and to industry. Industry must of course be contained and curtailed. It is insanity to allow Kennecott and the refineries to expand, and it is insanity to plan for a doubling of the population in 30 years or so (Wasatch Choices 2040).
    Everything must be curtailed and reined in: industry, transportation, and people. The valleys are small and finite and we must learn to live within their means. Anything else is slow, chronic suicide. Growth has to go.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Nov. 28, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    2bit, quoting the DMA article, wrote "'The largest single source of air pollution in the United States is no doubt transportation, which accounts for nearly 67 percent of the carbon monoxide, 33 percent of the nitrogen oxides and 25 percent of the hydrocarbons in our atmosphere, according to a report written by the EPA'."

    I forgot that all the semi-trucks used to transport goods created by industry run on pixie dust; good thing that method of transportation doesn't pollute the air or severely degrade roads (thus forcing us to more-quickly replace concrete, which is a process that produces a lot of pollution).

    Further, people are doing their part to limit their own carbon footprint. Part of that effort is to make sure the cavalier, rampant corporate polluting practices of the past do not continue on into the future. The conservatives' current perspective on corporate pollution is a poster child for "penny wise, pound foolish".

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 4:00 p.m.


    Here are some concrete ideas on reducing the problem:

    1. On days where air quality is degraded, reduce the speed limit on freeways and strongly encourage car pooling and less driving. At the same time, primary sources of industrial air pollution should be start to restrict their output, too.

    2. Adopt California level emission standards for new cars & trucks in Utah. 11 other states have, we should, too. This is a no-brainer, if any consideration is given to the health of our kids.

    3. On elevated pollution days, boost the gasoline tax as a disincentive to driving. This will help recoup the tax revenue lost because people are going to hybrids and electric cars, and further incentivize people buying those cars. This tax would essentially operate like the tax on cigarettes, ie, the increase in taxes on bad air days is a punitive measure.

    4. Outlaw wood burning stoves on any days except "good" days. This is a no-brainer, too.

    This is an issue where the pain needs to be spread around - we can't pretend the issue doesn't exist or it's the wish of the Almighty because of our geography.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    Re: "Re: "The choice . . . is to create a society to match the scenery[,] or experience a second Silent Spring."

    A second one? Hmmmm. Guess I missed the first one.

    But Spring would be silent, indeed, if Utah politicos were to repudiate millions of real Utah voters and kill off the real Utah economy, to appease a leftist alliance of a half-dozen, or so, callow, uninformed "greenies."

    You know, if these "greenies" really believed Utah is the 4th most toxic place in the universe, you'd think they would move their families to LA, Chicago, Washington, or New York.

    Where they'd be safe.

    The fact they don't speaks volumes about the disingenuity of their shrill bleating.

    It's just hard for those of us that have been here longer than the last real-estate boom-bust cycle, who are old enough to remember when there really WAS an air quality problem in Utah, to buy into their leftist, anti-jobs, doom-gloom blather.

    Get out and enjoy this beautiful Utah day. And, don't forget to breathe. Scientists agree -- breathing is much less dangerous than not breathing.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    We need to quit pretending you're a victim and it's somebody elses fault.

    Truth is... we are ALL polluting our air. And the only way to fix it is to quit expecting somebody else to change (industry, Republicans, your neighbors, folks with SUVs, etc).

    The only way to change something as big as this is for ALL of us to do what we can and quit expecting somebody ELSE to change and fix it for us, while the complainers just claim we are innocent victims of someone elses pollution so we can just keep doing what we have always done.

    We all need to change for this to work (not just industry).

    Industry obviously needs to do their part. But so do we.

    How many of you drove alone to work today?

    How many are heating and lighting our houses with fossil fuels?

    We can't really do this and then blame power companies for giving us light or heat, and refineries for giving us gas for us to burn to drive around polluting the air.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 12:22 p.m.

    Ok, we get it, you don't like the air in Utah. What are your solutions?

    Do we tax or regulate manufacturers to the point that they leave the state and we lose jobs?

    Do we mandate that vehicles purchased here are hybrids or electric only? That will destroy our road funds since much of that comes from gasoline taxes. It will also make it so that cars and trucks cost $5000 to $10,000 more to purchase. Can your family afford to pay $30,000 for a car the size of a honda civic?

    Do we go all natural gas for transportation? That will make it cost more for heating your home as the price of natural gas goes up with demand.

    What are your solutions? You do a great job of complaining and finding where the pollution comes form, but what viable solutions do you have?

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    Irony Guy,
    I checked my facts. The EPA says "The largest single source of air pollution in the United States is no doubt transportation". (meaning cars, trucks, etc)

    Reference this quote from a DMN article dated August 2013...
    "The largest single source of air pollution in the United States is no doubt transportation, which accounts for nearly 67 percent of the carbon monoxide, 33 percent of the nitrogen oxides and 25 percent of the hydrocarbons in our atmosphere, according to a report written by the EPA".

    I assume if it's the biggest single source of pollution in the United States it's also the biggest in little old Utah.

    You could completely shut down every factory in the Salt Lake valley and we would still have bad air days (unless your shutdowns resulted in enough people staying home collecting unemployment instead of driving to their jobs at the shutdown factories).

    Industry needs to reduce their pollution as much as they can, but they can't get to zero... and even zero wouldn't fix our bad air. We ALL need to cut the how much we pollute. And if we didn't drive so much... we wouldn't even need the refineries.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    'Study says coal burning in Utah kills 202 a year' - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/19/10

    'SALT LAKE CITY — A study commissioned by Utah state agencies says air pollution kills 202 residents a year.'

    'Lung Association slams Utah areas for bad air' - By Amy Joi O'Donoghue - DSNews - 04/30/09

    'Red air quality alert issued, limit driving' - DSNews - 08/25/10

    'A strong high pressure area has resulted in a buildup of pollutants, forecasters said, making it especially bad for those with health concerns and breathing problems.'

    'Northern Utah's air is the worst in the nation' - KSL - 01/11/10

    'SALT LAKE CITY -- Northern Utah currently boasts the worst air in the nation, and it's not even a close margin.' - article

    Let's be clear:

    Utah is now in 2013 where Los Angeles was in air quality, in 1980.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    Claim: 'Blaming our pollution on industry/corporations is popular with some people. But the fact is... most of our air pollution comes from US (the public) not from the industry in the valley.'

    **'EPA inventory shows Utah's sources of greenhouse gas' - By Amy Joi O'Donoghue - 02/05/13 - Published by the Deseret News

    'WASHINGTON — The nation's power plants continue to be the single largest stationary source of greenhouse gas emissions, according to new information released Tuesday by the Environmental Protection Agency.'
    In Utah, 14 power plants are responsible for 75 percent of the state's direct greenhouse gas emissions, releasing 33 million metric tons. '

    Reported, by the Deseret News.


    I don't think that word means, what you think it means.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:07 a.m.

    @2Bit... the fact is, only about half our pollution comes from the public... the other half comes from industry in the valley. Check your facts. I agree, we all have a role to play, but industry is so far out of proportion to the rest of us that a special responsibility accrues to them to do something more than point their fingers at the rest of us.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:02 a.m.

    Blaming our pollution on industry/corporations is popular with some people. But the fact is... most of our air pollution comes from US (the public) not from the industry in the valley.

    Most air pollution comes from the public individually and collectively. It comes from the nearly 1 million residents and their thousands of cars on the highways each day. You could do away with every factory and smoke stack in the valley and we would still have bad air days.

    Blaming it all on industry or on anybody other than ourselves is a cop out. We ALL need to do something if we are going to improve air quality (not just industry).

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Nov. 27, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    To many folks in Utah,
    Bad Air quality is limited only to tobacco.

  • trapdinutah South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 6:16 a.m.

    1. The comment period for the PM2.5 SIP ended in October.
    2. Marasco quotes the Caizzo report: "the largest contributor to deaths per year is road transportation generated from burning fossil fuels in combustion engines," meaning traffic, and somehow relates this to industry. Utah has a birthrate twice the national average, and a growth in vehicle miles traveled nearly double the birthrate. Marasco should see the connection there - it's time to get off his tirade about industry and start taking on the municipal planning organizations and UDOT, and let the Division of Air Quality (DAQ) take care of industry.
    3. Industry didn't pen the statute limiting the stringency of state law - the legislature did - and a) it applies to more than environmental law, and b) there are similar statutes in many, many of the 50 states. Nevertheless, DAQ does have many laws much more stringent than corresponding federal law (such as the Minor Source NSR requirements, etc), inconvenient as it may be for Marasco to recognize.
    4. The SIP is based on planned growth for all sectors - population, travel, and industry.
    5. What's wrong with "the air quality is better than it was?" Record growth and better air - the problem is?

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 5:52 a.m.

    Other country's have boilers that hear water. It keeps the houses worm and streets clear of snow. they also have our old locomotives that are still in use today. We have some cool cars and giant homes.