Does anyone else sense that when BYU gets an early lead they tend to get a big
head and start playing selfish. When the game is close early they stay more
focused on team ball throughout the game. I replayed the tape and Carlino gets
hot early but second half shots were a little farther out, fewer passes etc.
down the stretch WS had a minimum of four passes per offense and BYU had one.
With only five assists how do they expect to win against better teams. I give
BYU credit for playing these teams but start playing more like them.
motorbike"So tell us all what you think about this:..."too easy6th-ranked Duke has already played 2nd-ranked
Kansas.The "best" team Utah has played is 311th-ranked UC
Davis.btw, the rankings are already beginning to mean something and
Utah's pre-season cupcake walk will come back to haunt them when Selection
Sunday comes around in a few months.
ClarkeinAK-Took the words right out of my mouth. Wasted
opportunities.BTW, some of you need to learn paragraphs.
What's with ripping Carlino? Bone headed plays? Yep. Selfish play at
times? Yep. But name one player who doesn't make bone headed plays or go
one-on-one in every game. Even top NBA players do lots of stupid things in
every game.BYU players (especially Haws) need to learn that when you
feel contact or try to draw contact, you still have to shoot the ball, not just
throw it at the basket assuming you are going to get a foul so that shot
doesn't matter. And better yet, several BYU players, especially Haws and
Carlino need to remember that their best performances come when they move the
ball around during each possession. Too many times Haws and Carlino telegraph
to the world that they are bound and determined to go 1 on 1 on this trip down
the court no matter who is in front of them. Makes it so much easier for the
defense to defend only one guy instead of 5.
Anyone care to explain why Rose got a "T" when only a few minutes
earlier, the WSU coach was almost literally apoplectic screaming at the refs and
even gesturing to the ref in a "you get over here now". No T there?
But Rose gets one for maybe less than what the WSU coach had just done? And the
WSU coach was shown repeatedly screaming about calls he did not like.
Regarding Nate Austin's ejection:I and confused how anyone who
understands basketball can see what Nate did and declare he was playing dirty or
that it was a cheap shot. Basic big man block-out move: square out your arms to
keep the guy behind you from moving through you for the rebound. Watch any game
you want, it is a very standard move when blocking out for a rebound. The
problem? Nate is 6'11" and Baker is 6'3"; means that
Austin's elbow was at face level rather than the usual chest level of the
taller rebounders. Foul? Definitely! A flagrant? Probably. But a flagrant 2
by definition means that the offender was going after the person contacted and
not making any play for the ball. (Blocking out IS a play for the ball.) There
is no way that was true. The Iowa State player was clearly not even looking at
the ball, not trying to block out or anything else; he went straight to the face
of Mikka. HUGE difference.
@ ekute, Spokane Ute, and Xert:As Ute fans, you guys had some very
good comments today and obviously weren't trying to push anyone's
buttons... like another particular infamous Ute fan always does. I believe
most BYU fans appreciate that kind of objectiveness and hope some of the
ultra-BYU fans will take note and respond similarly on Utah articles. @ Christopher B:There are very good reasons DN moderators often
reject your comments. If you could look at the entire situation through a clear
lense, you would realize most of your comments don't add to the dialog, but
instead are usually meant to push the buttons of BYU fans... which is mostly
what happens. Why all the silly LOL's?I admit that many of your
comments have often raised my ire with their lack of objectiveness.I'm a BYU fan, but am not afraid to show support for Utah whenever they
aren't playing BYU or USU. It's extremely rare for you to
compliment BYU on anything... no matter how well they perform. It shouldn't
be difficult to give credit where credit is due, regardless of what team earns
it? You should try it.
What does it say about a team when it habitually gives up big leads? This goes
back at least to last season - build a big 1st half lead, watch it dwindle down
before halftime, then either hang on to win in the second half or leave it to
chance and lose. We do this against great teams, good teams, mediocre teams, and
even at times bad teams. Is it our bench? Do we not respond well when
opponents make adjustments? This season alone we've had big 1st half leads
against Weber, Stanford, Iowa State, Texas, and Witchita State - and ended up
surrendering most if not all of those leads. Does this team not have the mental
toughness to protect a big lead?Another observation: a couple years
ago, BYU's team shooting became much more erratic from one season to the
next, and the only major change was Dave Rice leaving to take the UNLV job. I
don't recall seeing BYU go 10 for 12 from 3 pt range one night, only to go
3 for whatever the next, when Rice was on the coaching staff. Anyone else
notice this? Food for thought...
Haws was 11 for 11 from foul line the rest of the team was 10 for 19. Wichita
State was 21 for 25. BYU continues to struggle badly from the foul line. This team loses when they get away from the TEAM concept. High, efficient
scoring is a byproduct of good passing and good rebounding. When this team plays
as 5 individuals trying to create their own shot, it is not going to be pretty.
When the 2 stars of the team move the ball around, high percentage shots result.
Both Carlino and Haws are capable of lighting it up and carrying the team. The
problem is when one or both are not on, they press for more shots instead of
working for the high percentage shots using other players. I hate to say it
but Haws does not contribute much more than scoring (when he is on) and foul
shooting. I really don' see him playing in the NBA.
Why is it that EVERY BYU team chokes under the 'big game' spotlight?
Wichita St. no doubt has a very good team, but thanks Coach Rose for standing up
to the officials. The announcers were also confused by many of the calls. It
will be a strange season with the officials determining the outcome of many
games with their own interpretation of the rules.
Byu had a chance in this game and then they came out after the half and pretty
much threw up brick after brick. Thought I was watching the Jazz.
We can beat a ranked opponent once in a while, just enough to lead us fans to
think we cab play on the big stage. But we can't seem to get it done a
lot. Where's the great free throw shooting we used to have? Why
can't we do it for more than a half? The same holds for the football team
this year. We just need a few more plays. Good guys, no question, some
significant inexperience. and not consistent with the talent. I think because
Carlino shoots so much in the first half, and makes them - good - but
doesn't allow Haws to get some shooting time and get in a rhythm. Then
Carlino goes cold in the second half and Haws has a hard time getting started.
He came back against TX, great, but not WS. I think that's on the coaches
in the final analysis, for both sports. They seem to be watching the game
rather than managing the game. And so it will be as long as we play ranked
opponents early in the season, I think. They're ranked for a reason - and
If only Jabari had come to BYU! Oooh, what might have been! Too bad!
I see the Des News moderators are again denying things just because byu fans
wouldn't like it.Byu had another chance to beat a truly great
team, and failed. Beating an average Pac 12 team is not a
"great win"Beating the 8th(of 10) big 12 teams is not a
"great win"With this tough 5 game stretch I said if byu went
5-0 or 4-1 as great programs would with Texas, Iowa State, Wichita UMASS, and
USU, I would openly say byu is a great team.Right now you're
sitting at 1-2.I predicted a 2-3 finish in those 5 games, and
i'll likely be right. And no, going 2-3 in that stretch is nothing to brag
about.Nothing off topic about my comment.
Without Haws at the foul line, the Y wouldn't have been in the game at all.
I think the team aught to call in Tyler's dad to teach them how to shoot
foul shots!! Austin's flagrant foul 2 was way beneath the level
of play expected from a Y player--however, it looked like Ron Baker may have
contributed to the foul by RUNNING INTO AUSTIN!!! Of course the refs didn't
even look at that!
TrueBlueRe: #28 BYU(4-2) #38 SOS#130 Utah(4-0)
#351 SOS"While BYU is building an NCAA tournament resume and
learning how to play against tourney-quality competition, Utah is scrimmaging
against JC-quality teams... Ball State, Utah's first "stern" test,
is ranked #213. When are the Utes going to play a team with a pulse?"___________So tell us all what you think about this:#53 Duke (5-1) #283 SOSFeel free to get back to us late in the
season when these rankings actually mean something.
To ekute,there is a huge difference between Austin's foul and
Kane's. Austin was correctly ejected, he threw the elbow and you could
even see him throw another one after. However, Kane was clearly only trying to
injure Mika and it worked. They wanted Mika off the court and he was for the
rest of the game and that is why they won. Kane was not blocking out and never
came close to attempting to go for the ball. I believe that if you injure a
player like Kane did, then you should be suspended for as long as it takes that
player to come back. Thus, if you end their college career with a flagrant foul
like that, then yours is over too. Thus, if Austin, who was obviously purposely
throwing hard elbows had injured Baker, then he should be suspended too. It was
sad to see Austin do that, but the flagrant 2 was the correct call...no doubt.
@TrueBlueNo Hater here, just a fan with an opinion. I would like to
see Utah play a better non-conference schedule, but conference play will give
Utah plenty of oppotunities to play ranked team. Currently BYU has 6 ranked
teams on there schedule, Utah has 5. As a Gonzaga fan, I have come to realize
that they play all of there tough games early, cruise through a weak schedule in
the WCC, then lose in the 2nd round of the tournament. While BYU will be playing
Gonzaga, Santa Clara and San Diego; Utah will be playing Oregon, Arizona and
UCLA. Although BYU may end up playing a tougher schedule, by season's end
it will be a lot more comparable. In summary, I would rather get my tough games
later, than earlier; the NCAA tournament is not until March.
I agree that byu needs more consistency from the big men. Mika is our only big
man who is a threat to score. Austin hustles and play hard, but nobody is
worried about him scoring and Worthington does look lost. I was so excited with
the new rules this year because they really favor a team like byu. But they are
not sticking to them. BYU's last 3 games show that. The officials have
gone right back to just allowing mugging. It is sad, basketball used to be a
better sport, it is just a bunch of thugs now, just who is bigger and pushes
more. There is not as much skill in the game anymore.Carlino is an
enigma, he can sometimes shoot well, but he also plays really stupid sometimes.
It seems that anytime we get ahead by 10 points, he starts just throwing up
garbage and then we blow the lead. Up tempo is great, but there must be
execution. I think this years team is much better than last years and will make
the tournament. Much better.
Against Stanford and Texas Haws played well and the results for the team were
good. Against Iowa State and against Wichita State Haws played terrible and
they lost both. They will live and die with him. He is not leading the team
well though. His effort is all concerned about getting himself shots when he is
playing poorly. He forces it too much in those situations and it's hurt
his team in two games so far. But their biggest hole is the big
men. Their defense is terrible on the interior. Oh and their swing guy
(usually Haws) will not block out and rebound back side. Good game
for the Shockers though. I liked their effort.
I might be proven wrong, but as a Ute fan--it's scary to watch the Coogs
toughening up and taking bruises against really good teams early on. The Utes
are winning, but against the worst sos in college basketball. True--they are
beating those teams up and building a little chemistry, but let's face
it--these are home games against teams who have not been tested themselves. I
think they might be seriously in trouble against a more seasoned and tougher BYU
squad when they meet in a few. Home court or not for the Utes--this BYU team has
played tough against real competition and will not be afraid to step on the
floor of the Huntsman Center.
@CB and the hatersTale of the tape (per Sagarin this morning):#28 BYU(4-2) #38 SOS#130 Utah(4-0) #351 SOSWhile BYU
is building an NCAA tournament resume and learning how to play against
tourney-quality competition, Utah is scrimmaging against JC-quality teams.(Sagarin doesn't even count games versus non-Div 1 programs.)Ball State, Utah's first "stern" test, is ranked #213. When
are the Utes going to play a team with a pulse?
@ C BESPN analyst Andy Katz is calling BYU a tournament team.Please
tell us which world wide Sports Station you work for so we know you are
qualified to make such predictions.Enjoy the first true test on the Utes
schedule Ball State, they have not been the same since Dick Hunsaker (UVU's
coach) was there.Everyone tune in at 10 am to hear CB's sports radio
show LOLAndy Katz opinion matters not CB's
This game honestly was nothing but disappointment. How do we lose a solid
13 point lead? I know. A lack of fundamental skills. It's time to go back
to the basics. It's so frustrating. Our team has so much talent, so much
potential and so much promise. We just can't capitalize on anything. Mika
needs to get more minutes since it's obvious we play so much better with
him in, but he just needs time to adjust to how they're going to call the
game. I am frustrated, but I'm excited to see where this team goes. They
have great things in store if they'll seize the opportunities.
Carling often plays the team into and then out of games. How about a little
judge,entails. Need an actual point guard.
There may as well be a big red light on Carlino's head that says "TIME
TO SHOOT" half the time he touches the ball. Doesn't matter what the
score is, what the clock says, who's guarding him, how they're
positioned, where he is on the court or where his teammates are, there are
several plays every game where he just gonna shoot and that's that.He isn't a PG. It's a shame, because he makes some really nice
passes on occasion, but everything good he does is negated by baffling,
infuriating, smash-my-remote shot selection. Yet he's still out there
during every crucial stretch. I love what coach Rose does, but how does he let a
40% shooter (30-ish on 3's) continue to jack up horrible shots without
reprisal?If Carlino just cut out the worst 10% of his shots,
he'd be a much more effective player. His efficiency would go up and
he'd set up more teammates for easy looks. Unfortunately, at this point I
fear he is what he is. I just don't get it . . it flies against everything
I think I know about good basketball.
Tweet from ESPN's Andy Katz"Bar has been set by some of these
losing teams this week: Dayton, Cal, BYU should be NCAA teams. Anything less
than bid is disappointing."
@ChrisBNothing special about loosing to ranked teams. You should
I agree with Spokane Ute Haws needs to learn how to compete against bigger
defenders. I think he was 3-19 or something pathetic.Wichita State has a
really good defense but they got back in transition and BYU half court offense
was pathetic.BYU was in it until the last couple of minutes then there
were stupid fouls and shots and they threw away a game against a really good
team.Lots of credit to Wichita State they are a well coached athletic
team. I have a lot of hope for this BYU team. Took one top 20 team down to the
very end and were in the game with another until the last couple of minutes,
with their "star" playing terrible. With just Carlino playing well BYU
is good if Haws and Carlino play well together (Stanford) they are really
good.On the elbow new rule in college basketball a couple years ago any
hit above the face results in an automatic flagrant 2 and ejection.When I
played I hit people with loaded elbows if they were talking trash or playing
dirty all game. Don't judge him too harshly, elbows (especially hidden
ones) are commonplace at all levels of basketball.
When is Haws going to learn that he can't go down when the game is on the
line and shoot over 6'-8" defenders? Agree with Motor Bike regarding
Austin's flagarant foul. One elblow wasn't enough, he locked and
loaded for a second. Pretty dirty play. @Mildred in FillmoreYou Rock!
It's the tale of two halves. They play great in the first and then go
stone cold in the second, especially Carlino! A few more threes and f/throws
made and the outcome would've been different in our favor. It's very
disappointing! Btw, I wish we have a couple more big men in our lineup to back
up our sensational freshman! Mika's a beast but when he and Austin are in
foul trouble we have nobody else we can count on. That other freshman kid,
bless his heart, looks lost and outclassed every time he goes in. What will we
do when Mika goes on his mission? Darn it, I know the Lord's work is more
important but, umm, well, I think I'll just keep my selfish wish to
myself!Bottom line is we seriously need a couple more big men,
preferably a 7fter who can crash the boards. Nate does a decent job but gets
into foul trouble way too easily! And we need to work on f/t efficiency. Other
than Haws, and Carlino sometimes, the rest are simply awful!Good
luck the rest of the way Cougars!!!
This team just needs to learn Confidence!
Carlino's side blip was interesting, since he was the one casting clunkers
from pago pago and not letting anyone else touch it at the end.
@BlueCougShoulda coulda woulda...there are always and will always be
things to improve on
What I see is BYU needs to spend more time in the gym shooting free throws and
jump shots in the off season. This was a dismal display of shooting to say the
least! They need to be shooting, outside of normal practice, 1000 jump shots a
day and at least 500 free throws a day. Carlino, Haws, and others who are slated
to be the scorers should get to the point where they are making 20 3's in a
row consistently during their practice time.I can promise you if
they aren't doing this, other teams are. And when it comes down to crunch
time, it's muscle memory that takes over. The crowd, fatigue, nerves, and
other issues will always be there. What it boils down to is whoever is spending
the most time in the gym practicing their shot will win.Defense,
time management, game management, the X's and O's are all important,
but you have to put the ball in the hole!Until the players on the
BYU team dedicate themselves to this end, this will be the result in these kinds
As a big time BYU fan I must admit that this team irritates me more than any in
recent memory. Awful free throw shooting, horrendous rebounding and selfish
basketball. When you are up by 13 points against a team as good as Wichita
State, you need to play smart and D it up. Instead, BYU seems to think that is
the time to play selfish on both ends of the court. This team has so much
promise but until they start rebounding and hitting their free throws they will
not beat a great team.
With Carlino carrying the team the first half and everyone being ice cold the
2nd half it's amazing that the Cougs were even in the game 'til the
end. Only 5 assists tonight compared to 20 last night. A lot more forced shots
and less passing. There is a message here. They looked tired the 2nd half which
also contributed to the awful shooting percentage. Disappointed in
Rose's technical. The ref made the correct no call. The Cougs really
unravelled toward the end including the coach.
I really enjoyed the final score. I hope we see more scores with like this with
BYU on the losing end.
"5 Cougars and 9 Shockers had more rebounds than Mika."You
denied that? It is a statistic, moderator. Found in the box score. A fact,
like the sun rises in the east.Of course, conclusions could be drawn
from that statistic, but I drew no conclusion, made no judgments (Apparently you
did, however).Let's give some examples of how it could be
interpreted:Lots of long rebounds went to the guardsLots of
close rebounds and he was guarding players away from the basket (see how that
works either way?)Ball bounced the other wayStronger players pushed
him out of the wayHe is gun-shy because of his eye injuryHe
isn't aggressiveHe only played X minutesI'm not
saying which of those is, isn't, or might be correct, just observing that
14 other players grabbed more rebounds.
how many points did the Cougars leave at the foul line? enough to have kept
ahead and win the game is what I'm thinking. Yes the officiating was
terrible and I don't know how Dave Rose stood it as long as he did, the
flagrant 2 foul was a basketball play to block out and should have been a most a
flagrant 1. Hard to understand how the BYU team shot so poorly. I feel there
is a lot of fouling of Haws to keep him from getting open, though must admit it
didn't seem to matter in the long run, as he missed so many shots...this is
one they seemed to have given away. Perhaps just pressing to much, to anxious,
stressed, needed to relax and play.
A new excuse seems to be emerging from BYU fans. The basketball team only loses
because the other team has more thugs. It's a good one.
Every team plays too rough. Don't see how Austin's elbow to the face
and then swinging it again as the guy goes down is a flagrant foul.
Dave Rose is a top notch coach and has some talented young players, bodes well
for the future but I don't think this years team is much better than last
year's. Haws and Carlino are inconsistent, especially down the stretch.
Mika is young and will continue to get into foul trouble. Like last year,
expect another NIT bid.For you byu fans that were calling for
Kane's suspension, does that Austin elbow bring things into perspective?
Very physical game. The call on Austin was correct, he clearly was swinging his
elbows. Disappointed that all the emphasis at the beginning of the year about
freedom of movement and making the game less physical has gone out the window
and it is right back to being just physical, no finesse, just who is the bigger
thug. But, the refs were pretty consistent on both sides, I just wish they
would not have allowed it to get so physical because that hurts byu and favors
Wichita. Closer game than the final score showed though.
Allowing too many offensive boards and not making free throws. Imagine what the
BYU lead would be like if they could clean up those two things?
Need to make free throws!
Looking like a repeat of last night - Carlino carries the team in the 1st half;
watch for Haws in the 2nd half. BYU just needs to rebound and make shots and
they'll win this one.