Commentary: BYU, Utah football both plagued by missed opportunities

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  • Mkithpen Sandy, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:51 p.m.

    Welcome back to Provo coach W!! Take the D for a couple of years and then take over for Bronco where you belong.

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    Nov. 27, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    "They dreamed of playing in the Rose Bowl and laughing at BYU languishing in mediocrity. Well, they can still laugh at BYU thanks to Utah's four-game winning streak over the Cougars"

    Come on give me a break. Is there a DNews writer who isn't a BYU or USU grad or who doesn't have the worlds biggest grudge against the Utes? Sports media in this state is a joke. No rational Utah fan "dreamed of playing in the Rose Bowl" definately not in it's first 3 seasons. As far as laughing at BYU, yeah we Utah fans still do that. As bottom feeder we still manage to take them to the woodshed. And personally I couldn't care less. That game was fun but it's getting ridiculous lately. The media, the fans, the universities, it's all getting to be way too much. I would love a complete halt of that game.

    Point of the article: Both BYU and Utah just aren't that good. I could just as soon fly to the moon than watch the Y play in the NCG and Utah in the Rose.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2013 4:10 p.m.


    Thank you for the correction; I'm sure everyone was struggling with the meaning of my post......sheesh! How have they done head to head? Do tell.

  • Mendel Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 26, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    Chris B:
    Your use of only end of the season rankings as a metric for quality wins is flawed as pointed out by both BYU9293 and myself for the reasons given in previous posts (The generally true principle that ranked teams fall in the rankings when they lose).
    It is also a flaw to base a quality win only on the end of season rankings because the quality of many teams is not static. Suppose Team A beats Team B at mid-season while Team B is ranked, and subsequently Team B loses its star quarterback to injury for the season, resulting in a weakened team and additional losses. Was the Team A win over Team B a quality win or not? Such scenarios are not uncommon.

  • Dunedain PROVO, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    All this arguing is hilarious. I love college football and am a BYU fan but the passion of fans can be ridiculous.

    The fact is college football is not an object sport, it is a subject sport. As such anybody can carve out a way to put their team in the best light as possible. Reduce the scope of inquiry enough and you can make your team better than any other team in some form or fashion. Let's all just admit the fact that we don't really know which team is better because we don't have a good objective line to draw. Is it the game between them? Is it the overall season? Is it the schedule? Is it past history? I don't know.

    Any statistics professor would tell you that no college football team plays a statistically significant sample of the other college football teams to say that one is objectively the best.

    And in many ways that is the beauty of college football, it allows for lots of discussion. So discuss away but lets not kid ourselves into believing that any one of us can objectively say which is better than the other.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Nov. 26, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    @Chris B

    Way to go again. You're a genius at distorting the records and efforts of college athletes. We get that you hate BYU. I don't think you care about Utah, except as a foil against BYU.

    I've never cared about Utah's record, and still don't. But you've got me looking at the Utah scores and chuckling, thinking of yet another egg cracked on your face. I take equal joy in each BYU win because I know it pains you greatly.

    That is the definition of Schadenfreude, joy in the misery of others. I love it when you come on these boards to whine and dissemble.

    As for you true Utah fans,, I feel your pain. But afterall, it is just a game. There is always next year.

  • Chamberlain Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    It's "Sagarin", not "Saragin".

    Regardless, Bronco has finished ahead of Kyle in record and ranking in 5 of the last 8 seasons, and stands on the cusp of making it 6 of the last 9.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 1:35 p.m.


    "against BYU's then new offensive scheme... before it became better honed."


    Wisconsin and Notre Dame didn't think much of your honed go fast go hard offense.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    Thanks for the info, that's the first time I have seen a BCS poll beyond 25 teams. The only reason I reference the Saragin poll, is because that's the one that BYU fans always hang there hat on. Neither BYU or Utah have to worry about the National Championship, not even close. You have a good day too Guy!

    I'm lookin at the big picture. The Saragin rankings are based on the entire season. The difference between #24 & #26 is oh so slight. You make it sound as if there's a huge ranking difference. Is WSU better than Utah? Of course they are, they just beat Utah. I can admit that. Wait, the Saragin rankings say other wise. I don't buy that. I will look for your position after the season plays out: Utah beats Colorado, BYU beats Nevada, then loses to Washington. I wonder what your position will be then, if the Saragin rankings have Utah higher? Hopefully you won't reference another poll that fits your agenda; we shall see. When teams are ranked, basically the same, I would have to utilize head to head results as the tie breaker. IMO

  • fender Washington, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    Truth Machine

    So you say. Re-read Tator's position on that issue.


    Sorry pardner, you can't have it both ways, but nice try after painting yourself in a corner. And, yes, Sagarin's ratings were alive and well in '84.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 1:18 p.m.

    @ Spokane Ute:

    You seemed to have fallen into the same trap that a few other Ute fans have... putting all their argument about who is better based on a single game of the season.

    If you do that, then you also have to say that Utah is better than Stanford, too. So do you actually believe that?
    Texas is now ranked 27th in the latest AP poll. Yet BYU clobbered them.
    No one in their right football mind considers Virginia even close to as good as BYU... even though they did win in that first game of the season against BYU's then new offensive scheme... before it became better honed.

    Try harder to look at the bigger picture. You've already shown yourself capable of that by being more objective than most fans of either side. Let's continue to look at the entire season as a whole. The national polls will soon make those assessments.

    BTW: There are not any national polls I can find that currently have Utah ranked better than BYU. None. In fact, the BCS poll currently has BYU ranked 18 places better than Utah.

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Nov. 26, 2013 1:03 p.m.


    Why in the world would Graham go to Utah when successful at ASU? Sun Devils send him to SLC for a single day in January, and he would get on the first plane back. Winters in northern Utah are horrific ( spent 21 of them in Cache Valley).

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    CBS sports will show you the full rankings.
    I actually mocked the fact that rankings are brought into the picture when neither is the top 25.
    Lets see why are the BCS rankings more important well lets see they decide the National Champion.
    Sagarin rankings are a part of the BCS rankings so the BCS is more comprehensive. That is like saying an arm is more important than the whole body.
    Have a good day.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    @ Christopher B:

    I really don't understand why people have to keep taking you by the hand in trying to explain simple concepts. But let's try this once again...

    BYU has a schedule this year that is in the top 20% in the nation in difficulty. Not as difficult as Utahs, but ranked more difficult than several teams currently listed in the top 10 nationally.

    As such, why wouldn't their schedule be considered worthy of national contention if they had won enough of those games? Please try answering in an objecive and non-obtrusive way, since most of your comments are just the opposite.

    Every objective football pundit (you've already excluded yourself) agrees that that level of strength of schedule qualififies for national consideration.

    BYU soundly beat Texas who currently leads a BCS conference, plus Houston and USU who also lead their respective conferences. You somehow forgot to mention those facts.

    In fact, BYU's strength of schedule this year is more difficult that any schedule Utah has ever had prior to this year. Period... even in the years they qualified for BCS bowl games.

    Facts (as opposed to some commenters who make game guarantees) don't lie.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:52 p.m.


    Interestingly NONE of the teams currently in contention for the national championship have a SOS higher than BYU's, none of them.

    Florida St. (76)
    Alabama (55)
    Baylor (65)
    Ohio St (67)
    Oregon (25) they aren't in contention nor is any pac12 team but their SOS is lower
    Wisconsin (45)
    Missouri (39)
    Oklahoma St (41)


  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    To the poster above who mentioned Rich Rodriguez being at Arizona State - he is at the University of Arizona. Todd Graham is the coach at ASU. Formerly at Tulsa, WV, Rice and the real program founder of what's become Allen, TX HS football (ranked #2 nationally again this year). Sharp guy, Todd Graham. The U should hire him away.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    @Be Smart

    Why do the BCS rankings matter more than the Saragin, when you aren't in the top 25 anyway? Neither team has any chance of sniffing a BCS bolw. Where do I find a BCS ranking that goes beyond 25 teams? The Saragin rankings, ranks 252 teams.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:44 p.m.


    BYU's schedule SOS is 23rd, that is top 25 by real math. Last I checked in the 5 so called "power" conferences there are approximately 60 total teams. That means BYU schedule is btter than more than half of those teams. Not evey single one of them has an SOS ranked #1, in fact only one of them has that. That means all of the others have an SOS lower than that yet they supposedly have schedules "worthy" of national title consideration.

    You really struggle when it comes to some pretty simple things, stuff like facts and logic.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    @ Spokane Ute:

    When did I beat on my chest? If you actually read my comments to this article, I said that whoever is ranked higher at the end of the season... since the end of th season isn't here yet.

    Based on what happened last week and also the last time Colorado played in SLC, there isn't much reason to expect much from our SLC team this coming Saturday... though I do hope they prevail.

    I believe (and odds-makers will probably agree) there is a better chance of BYU beating Nevada, and thus, end up higher ranked in the end-of-season rankings. It's pretty much an objective assessment. No chest thumping.

    @ Chrisopher B:

    Quit being so bellicose! You are much better at insidiously putting words into people's mouths than you are at predicting games. But at least you appear to be good at something.

    If you had any objectivity at all, you would've understood I said that BYU has been more competitive with their (top 20% in difficulty) schedule this season than Utah has been with their schedule. It's not so difficult to understand. Try a bit harder to keep up next time.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:05 p.m.


    "At least BYU is smart enough to create schedules they are competitive in"

    So you agree byu can only be competitive by playing the 2 worst BCS programs in their respective divisions and then texas?


    I thought you were guys were going after national titles? That's what Bronco keeps saying. Shouldn't a national title worthy team be able to play a national title worthy schedule?

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Just to throw something into the conversation
    How about a ranking that actually matters (since both teams can't reach the top 25)
    Utah- 59

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:33 a.m.


    Considering BYU is ranked #24, and Utah #26; I wouldn't beat on my chest just yet. Not much difference between #24 and #26 anyway. It would be a shame if you didn't have the Saragin rankings to lean on, because we all know who won the actual game.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:32 a.m.


    "The best 25 teams in football each year end the season in the top 25. Its really quite simple."

    I agree with you completely, it is just you that doesn't really agree with yourself. Let's not forget that BYU has finished in those rankings yet you still seem to think utah, which has not finished in those rankings, is better based on the results of one game. I guess when it is utah finishing out of the top 25, and BYU finishing in the top 25, that it really isn't that simple huh?

    Nothing like tuah "fan" hypocrisy to keep things around here interesting. LOL!

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    @ Christopher B:

    It's actually quite silly to brag about a tough schedule that you can't even compete in. Weber State could create the toughest football schedule in the world, but what would that prove? Considering how your comments made you look last Saturday, you should quit digging yourself in deeper. Ute fans seem to be disowning the person making such claims and guarantees, and everyone else is actually laughing... guaranteed.

    One other thought. At least BYU is smart enough to create schedules they are competitive in. Can Utah claim the same thing? (and yes, by accepting PAC12 membership, they are creating their schedules). The proof is in the results. He who laughs last (and ends up ranked better) laughs best.

  • jazzer St. George, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    BYU will lose 1 gsame next season. We have the talent, and our schedule is favorable.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    @ Christopher B:

    Speaking of 2014 schedules... Utah's might even be harder than this year's schedule. As such, and based upon what happened to Utah this year, what do you expect the results will be next year? Not pretty. You should think a litte harder before throwing out your ill-timed LOL's.

    Kyle would probably pay big bucks to be able to switch schedules with BYU at this point. And so would a lot of other Ute fans who are getting tired or losing and not garning respect in doing so. How is that you keep missing the boat? Head in the sand?

    You of all people should not be poking fun at Cal... seeing that Utah is once again contending with them for a very unenviable title.

    Something else your ultra-biased thinking keeps forgetting... schedules are made years in advance. Nobody knows who will be the power teams by the time those seasons actually come about. Every team has up years and down years. Texas may be a top 10 team next year. Nobody knows for certain, and especially not you. We all know how most of your predictions go. lol.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    @ 2BCSWINS:

    By stating that nobody cares about the Kraft Hunger Bowl, you honestly sound jealous and even somewhat desperate. I totally guarantee (not a Chris B type of guarantee) that Utah would've jumped at the opportunity to play in that bowl... or any other bowl if given the opportunity. Unfortunately, it won't happen. I've been pulling for them (and usually do when they aren't playing BYU or USU) to become bowl eligible.

    A truism you should never forget: Any bowl is better than no bowl.

    @ fender:

    I doubt they even had the Sagarin rankings 29 years ago... in 1984. But even if they did, what has that got to do with this season? Absolutely nothing at all. Two facts still exist:

    1) Like it or not, BYU was crowned the 1984 National Champions based on the national polls that year. Period.
    2) BYU will likely finish ahead of Utah in the Sagarin and every other national poll at the end of this season... again. Polls are the general concensus on who finishes the season as the better teams throughout the country. Again, Utah better on September 21st, but BYU better overall.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    redfeather, At least we wont be hearing about byu's amazingly tough schedule next year huh?

    Total power conference programs byu plays in 2014:

    Texas(good one)
    Cal(12th of 12 in Pac 12)
    Virginia(14th of 14 in ACC, only 1 division win this year - you guys)


  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 26, 2013 10:44 a.m.


    "Utah's 2014 Football Schedule
    Idaho State - win
    Fresno State - toss up
    at Michigan - loss
    Oregon State - toss up
    at UCLA - loss
    at Stanford - loss
    Arizona - toss up
    Southern Cal - loss
    at Arizona State - loss
    Oregon - loss
    Washington State - toss up
    at Colorado - toss up

    1 win
    6 losses
    5 tossups"

    It's hard for Utah fans to admit, but it's becoming more and more obvious that the Utes have bitten off more than they can chew.

    Another losing, bowl-less season next year is more likely than not.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 10:43 a.m.


    Great teams prove they can beat great teams. It's significantly more impressive for a team to beat another team who is unranked(and ends up being ranked at the end of the season) than it is to beat the #1 team in the nation(at the time) only to see that team end unranked.

    Not a single person in the football world thinks USC was the best team in the country, EVEN at the beginning of the year. Every expert agrees they were not the best team, not even close.

    Anyone who thinks beating USC last year at the beginning of the season is better than beating Alabama(who wasn't ranked #1 at the time) doesn't understand football.

    The best 25 teams in football each year end the season in the top 25. Its really quite simple.

    And in 4 years byu only has 1 win against the best 25 teams in football. Some powerhouse program.

    And your coach who talks national titles has NEVER beaten one of the best 10 teams in football. No other coach who has done so little talks so highly. Sorry, the truth hurts.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 10:14 a.m.


    AP and Coaches National Championships trump Sagarin rankings every time.

    Sagarin rankings are only relevant for ranking teams that aren't good enough to finish in the final AP and Coaches Top 25.

  • BYU9293 Clinton, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    To Chris B,
    Yes, for the first week of the season USC was ranked #1 last year, so they were number 1, period. If they lost after that, then they dropped. You are ranked what you are ranked when you play, period. Also, my logic never said that Utah was better than Stanford, they are not and were not, it was an upset. It only says that Stanford was the #5 team at that time and they were. The rankings are what they are. You cannot try to switch them to something else to fit your needs. They are rankings, opinions, that is it, they are not true. Every #1 team in the history of Division 1 football has always been maybe, they don't have a playoff and it does not matter if every person on the planet votes you #1, it does not make you the best team...ever. Understand what logic truly is before you try to spout it.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 26, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    @ Chris B.
    I agree with you completely Utah has been able to win some really big games under Whittingham.
    And Bronco has not he has had some good wins, but never the great win and it is disappointing.
    I think Whittingham is a great coach and can get Utah to win more in the Pac-12 (I think they mainly lack depth at qb and wr).
    BYU unless they get an offense that can actually score against good opponents then they will probably always lose to the great teams and a lot of good ones.
    I personally think BYU's defense the last couple of years is as good as it will get there because of recruiting.
    But BYU's offense since 2010 has been pathetic and has ruined what may have been some fun years.
    Have a good day.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Utah has played the toughest schedule in the country per the Saragin rankings. They are ranked #26, with only two teams in the top 50 with losing records (Florida #49). Too bad they couldn't pull off the Oregon St and/or ASU games. The Utes need to shore up the QB position. Eastern Washington has a better QB, and it's not even close. The schedule has been brutal; but the season is what it is: a dissapointment. A win against Colorado, and hopefully a better season next year. GO UTES!

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 9:00 a.m.


    Thank you. And if Stanford goes on to lose 2 more games this season and drops to 20th or so, I will no longer claim that win as beating a top 10 team in the nation. I don't think I'm being unrealistic by saying that if a team is one of the best 25 teams in the nation, they'll be in the top 25 at the end of the season.

    Byu has consistently been an ok team under Bronco, and certainly the string of bowl wins is impressive. I just don't think I'm wrong in saying that Bronco in his 8 years still hasn't proven he can beat good teams. Whittingham beat an end of season top 10 Alabama, end of season top 10 TCU, and we'll see where Stanford ends. Bronco has never done that, even once. Whittingham has also had several very bad losses, like you guys recently did with Virginia. I just think any team that wants to call themselves a great team needs to beat end of season top 25 teams, more than 1 in 4 years. Utah included.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 26, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    @ 2 BCS WINS
    I cheer for the Utes but c'mon. You are comparing the Utes to Washington that is not even close.
    Washington is 7-4 with losses on the road at Stanford, UCLA, and ASU.
    They have gone to 4 straight bowl games under Sarkisian
    They have 2 national titles, and 20 all americans.
    Its great to be in the PAc for the Utes, but be realistic the Utes are not even close to Washington in football.
    The Utes do have a better basketball history that Washington but Washington has been pretty good for 5 years or so.
    @ Chris B.
    I agree that psychiatrist's argument is a little weird. I think it will be interesting how Stanford finishes the season out. They still have 3 tough games and could lose all 3 or win all 3. If they win all 3 then Utah will have beaten an end of the year to 5 if they lose at least 2 out of the 3 they may finish barely in the top 20. It will be interesting.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 8:29 a.m.


    No, it is your logic that is flawed. Yes, if you beat a team they will drop. But if they're good enough still and thought of as a top 25 team, they'll still be in the top 25.

    Are you aware that not many teams in the top 25 are unbeaten?

    Stanford is ranked. And yet, based on your logic that shouldn't be the case since Utah beat them right?

    So you guys must think USC was the best team in the nation at the beginning of the year last year since they were ranked #1 huh?

    Too funny

  • fender Washington, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 8:29 a.m.


    "Utah was better than USU and BYU on 2 particular days this season. That doesn't necessarily means they are overall better. The Sagarin rankings at the end of the season determine that. It takes account every measurable statistic there is... including strength of schedule and head to head competition. We'll know next week which team in the state had the best overall season, rather than trying to pin everything on just 2 games."

    That's not an unreasonable position to take and hard to argue with, but before going to far down that road bear in mind that those same Sagarin rankings declared the Florida Gators the national champ in 1984.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 8:26 a.m.


    And yet, Utah beat Stanford and Stanford is still ranked. How is that so since you seem to believe if byu were to beat someone they could no longer be ranked?

    Nice spin there.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    @cool cat cosmo.."At least BYU still has something to play for in the post-season, with a bowl game against a quality PAC-12 team (likely Washington, if you believe the sports pundits)."

    What does the cougies have to play for? The kraft fight hunger nobody cares bowl? Washington a high quality PAC 12 team? Their in the same position the utes were the last couple years so I guess your saying Utah is a high quality PAC 12 team right?

    If the schedules were flipped this year the utes would most likely be 9 - 2 right now. The cougies would be 1 - 10.

    @utes home for the holiday's..."Stop it! You ute "fans" pay more attention to byu EVERY year.
    Oh, Brunswick called, they are holding out hope ute fans/players will accept the bowling invitation they just extended."

    Going off your screen name and comments you don't pay any attention to the utes do ya?

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Nov. 26, 2013 7:54 a.m.

    Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. The Rocky Mountain Mediocrity fever.

    Both teams need to get an edge, play the whole game, put a dagger in it and ignore their own press until they can point at the scoreboard because that's what everyone everywhere else in the country remembers.

    Too much feel good and not enough good wins to feel good about on their own.

    Best of luck to Utah and BYU to close out with a win so their seasons don't stink too badly. It was a real let down to your fans and doesn't speak well for either head coach.

  • BYU9293 Clinton, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 6:45 a.m.

    Chris B's comments totally lack logic. If you beat a team during the season and they are ranked at that time, then you beat a ranked team, period. The logic is so flawed to say that only end of year rankings count, because any team you beat will drop in the rankings because you beat them. Thus, if Stanford loses to ND, loses the Pac 12 championship game and then loses their bowl, they finish out of the rankings and Utah did not beat a ranked team. NO, they beat Stanford when ranked in the top 5 and that is all that matters.
    Again, part of the problem with this rivalry is that to most of the byu players, it has never been a rivalry unless you grew up in Utah. Because Utah was not challenging for WAC championships, when I played, Utah did not matter, so it was not a big deal, we were looking at other teams who were challenging for conference titles. The game has been much more important to Utah for the last 40 years or so.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 26, 2013 12:45 a.m.


    BYU beat 6 bowl teams which each won at least 7 regular season games.

    How many bowl teams did Utah beat?

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 11:19 p.m.

    The "irony of the year" award goes to the ultra-Ute fans who spent most of the season bragging about their power conference affiliation, then watched as their team stumbled home with a grand total of 1 conference win. Amazing! Believe it or not, there are no other teams jealous of you. None.

    Better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond, than a minnow in a big pond... that continually gets eaten alive by the bigger fish.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Nov. 25, 2013 10:47 p.m.

    Actually, to be fair to both Utah and Colorado, their game isn't for the conference most futile award this season... That was already won by California at 0-9 and 1-11 overall... They are only fighting the rumble in the Rockies for who is worst in the division... And Arizona will be playing for Stanford's hope of hosting the championship game, as in a loss ASU would finish tied with them in conference and lost that tiebreaker by 14 on the field September 21st...

  • moderateinmagna MAGNA, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Ogden, UT And just how many pick 6,s did shultz throw on saturday i counted 2 as i recall Hill did not throw a pick 6 in the game ,so who can,t pass,I Rest my case.

  • cdchttrtn meridian, idaho
    Nov. 25, 2013 8:56 p.m.

    BeSmart in Cheyenne. BYU can't fix the OC problem, because they don't an OC coach.

  • Guam_Bomb BARRIGADA, GU
    Nov. 25, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    If BYU replaced Middle Tennessee State, Idaho State, Georgia Tech and Houston with Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona and Arizona State, UCLA or USC they'd have the same record the Utes have now. Their losses against Virginia, Utah, Notre Dame and Wisconsin showed that the Cougars can not consistently win big games.

    Utah should be proud about the 4 game winning streak against the Y. But when you look at the level of talent and the quality of opponents, both teams are fairly equal. I'm saying this as a Utah fan who has gone from optimistic after the Oregon State loss to disappointed after the Washington State game.

    For both programs something needs to change. I love Whit, but business is business and his teams aren't taking care of it. If Hill gives him another year and he can't turn it around then find someone who can come in and reinvigorate the program. Look what Rich Rodriguez did at Arizona State this year. Utah has the swagger to attract a rising star in the college coaching ranks. It would also free him up so BYU could have the best coach available to them.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 25, 2013 8:04 p.m.

    Hey ChrisB I extend the olive branch! Go take care of Colorado and hold your head up high. Send those seniors out with a W. Utah doesn't belong in the cellar.

  • Ldsrm Spanish fork, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 7:04 p.m.

    Chris B

    who has gone to bowl games the past 2 years Byu and Utah state !!!

    all that needs to be said

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    All these losses land squarely on the coach's shoulders. Anae does not have the offense prepared. Anae does not get the most he can out of players...I would say they do not play anywhere near inspired football. The defense often plays inspired, but not as often this year.

    Think what a great coach gets medium players to give...the players consistently play above themselves...begin to believe they are that good...they become that good. Offensive calls are not creative, it is like the other team knows what is coming...very vanilla.

    Sad for the fans. We had some exceptional players, and many very good players, and we did nothing with them.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    "Utah is the 10th best team in the Pac 12"

    Huh? How do you get 10th best team in the Pac when you're tied with Colorado for the 12th best record? (Good thing there aren't 13 teams or you'd probably be 13th) Must be that pipe dream math she's using again.

    Speaking of tied for LAST place - the Pillow Fight for the Basement is shaping up to be a real barn burner. YAWN

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:46 p.m.

    I miss the comment boards from 5 weeks ago, when BYU was surging and Utah had just beaten Stanford and looked to be moving up. It's been a rough few weeks since then. The games have all been fun to watch this year for both teams, but the results have been pretty much awful. No way to spin it any other way.

  • cougarsare1 Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    I am happy for the USU fan, Mr. Ways - First name RSLf.

  • cougarsare1 Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    Bottom line: we suck right now. Consolation: So do the Utes.

  • Chris B's psychiatrist Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:32 p.m.

    @ChrisB: "This turned out to be a pretty typical year for byu: Lose to your rival, beat the nobodies and lose to all the ranked teams you play (end of season rankings are the only rankings that matter ...)."

    Your comment is lacking in logic. First, who is BYU's rival? Certainly not Utah, as BYU and Utah are not in the same conference (as you keep reminding everybody) and they don't even play each other every year in the future. Second, if only end of the season ranking matter in your assessment of a quality wins, it puts BYU (or any other school whose quality wins you are assessing) in a highly biased situation. If BYU wins, the team they beat is likely to fall out of the rankings; if BYU loses-they didn't get a win at all, let alone a quality win. Case in point, if BYU had not blown out Texas, Texas would likely be ranked. Since BYU beat Texas, you consider Texas a "nobody". Thus like many of the points you make, this one makes no sense.

  • TheVoice South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    BYU's recruiting has to get much much better. The way Notre Dame and Wisconsin push BYU around at the line of scrimmage tells me things of got to change there.

  • TheVoice South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    BYU needs to recruit better players it's become obvious watching them play against Wisconsin and Notre Dame how much mauling they were getting at the line of scrimmage on both defense and offense.

  • Serenity Now Highland, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Not the great year Ute and Cougar fans were hoping for, but I don't think either team (or its rabid, unreasonable fan base) should lose hope. The close losses were the only thing separating each team from a much greater year, and both teams have capable, young QBs with bright futures….although Travis Wilson may not be back next year per the reports. With more experience at QB and the offensive line, BYU should have a much better offense next year. Its defensive front 7 will taken a step back, but the secondary should improve with Jordan Johnson and Trent Trammel back.

    My only Christmas wish is for Anae to learn some humility, clock management and play-calling skills in the offseason. I loved his up tempo style and development of Taysom HIll, but his play calling at Virginia cost BYU the game (let's pass deep in enemy territory while nursing a lead with a minute left in game!), and his clock management and play calling at Wisconsin and ND didn't help (although BYU didn't deserve to win either game).

    Utes goal for the future? Keep Whittingham from leaving.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    "This turned out to be a pretty typical year for byu: Lose to your rival, beat the nobodies and lose to all the ranked teams you play(end of season rankings are the only rankings that matter and since we're not at end of season our best guess is current rankings)."

    Chris B,

    Is it better to beat a ranked team, or to BE a ranked team? How many years out of the past 4 years has Utah ended the season ranked higher than BYU?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:43 p.m.

    After watching the BYU Notre Dame game my conclusion is Hill couldn't hit a bus if he was riding on it.

  • Kaladin Greeley, CO
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    This is a painful and accurate article for both fan bases. We stunk it up this year. All we can say is "We beat you 4 in a row," or "At least we're bowling again." But in the end what we are all saying is "OUCH!" We are all fans. Some are red, some are blue. Let's all be a little kinder to each other since really none of us has anything to brag about this year. Hopefully both teams will do better next year (I really do hate saying that year after year).

  • SyracuseCoug Syracuse, ut
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    BYU's biggest problem is they are being man-handled on the line of scrimmage by these BCS quality teams. If they don't fix this for next year, they will be in the same boat. Hill will get better, Anae will hopefully find his groove in playcalling, but my biggest fear is the O-line will continue to get pushed around and the D-line will continue to get blown off the ball. Just watch the Wisconsin and ND game for perfect examples of this. Still a die hard Cougar fan here, looking forward to a good bowl game against Washington (likely).


  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    Utah will NOT go to a bowl game - mark it down.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    @ Chris B:

    If "only end of year rankings matter", which are your exact words, then why do you continue making such a big deal of Utah's win over BYU this season? BYU has been nationally ranked better than Utah most of the season and will very likely finish that way too.

    You sound totally desperate and just as unbeleivable as your guarantees when you state that BYU beat only a bunch of "nobodies" this year.
    How long has a Texas team contending for the Big 12 conference title been considered a nobody?
    How long has a 9-2 Houston team been considered a nobody?
    How long has Boise State been considered a nobody by anyone else besides you?
    Who else in the entire country besides you considers Georgia Tech a nobody?
    Why do you consider USU a nobody, seeing as they beat Utah last year and barely lost to them this year in SLC... plus, they are currently leading their conference?

    There is apparently some delirium from not going bowling for 2 years in a row. But don't compound the problem by adding a probable case of foot-in-mouth disease.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    Utah collegiate football is going DOWN, DOWn, DOwn, Down, down, dow, do, d,...

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    @ Chris B
    Utah has beaten 1 team that will likely end up being ranked at the end of the year in 4 years.
    That is Stanford from this year.
    You are bragging about something that has not even happened yet.
    Stanford could finish the season losing 3 more games.
    They have Notre Dame, ASU, and a bowl game.
    Utah State finished ranked 16th
    We will see how Stanford does, but if they lose one or two of those they will be no better than Utah State.
    Go back to 2009 and BYU has beaten 3 and the Utes 1
    4 in you include Oregon State who finished 26th after losing to BYU in a bowl game.
    LOL nice argument

  • Lone Star Cougar Plano, TX
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Are you dizzy yet for all the spinning you are doing?

  • CincyRed13 SLC, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:23 p.m.


    You make it hard to cheer for the Utes. It's time to accept the fact that the Utes are not good. They beat BYU because they were a better team in September. They are not the better team now. It's okay to be wrong and it's okay to admit fault. Stop living in the past and learn to accept the present.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 4:14 p.m.

    @ Chris B:

    The "sad state of football in the state of Utah" is mostly in your own mind by falling short in so many predictions, and even promises this season.

    Utah was better than USU and BYU on 2 particular days this season. That doesn't necessarily means they are overall better. The Sagarin rankings at the end of the season determine that. It takes account every measurable statistic there is... including strength of schedule and head to head competition. We'll know next week which team in the state had the best overall season, rather than trying to pin everything on just 2 games.

    You obviously don't have any idea what "owning" another team means. BYU has streaks beating Utah and Utah has streaks beating BYU. It goes back and forth and has done so for many decades. The closest any team came to owning the other is when LaVell Edwards came onboard and BYU beat Utah 19 of the next 21 games. But that's history too.

    Saying anyone's team owns anyone else is merely opinion. But one indisputable fact is that Utah might be the 12th best team in the PAC12, depending on what happens next Saturday.

  • RSLfanalways West Valley, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    I like how the article talks about BYU and Ute's but not USU, but USU goal was to make it into the MWC Championship and it looks like they are going to fulfill that goal even with all the injuries. Too bad the Ute's couldn't adapt after their injuries. Coaching is the major factor why Ute's could not adapt. It will be nice having two post season games to watch. Go USU and RSL, the only two Utah teams that have done better than what people thought.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    Utah is in a league that they don't belong, especially when you consider all sports, not just football. They rounded out the league to 12 teams so a play-off would be permitted. They are fodder for the PAC 12. They got lucky when Stanford looked past them. The same was true when they beat TCU in 2008. Both games came down to the last play and the Ute defense played well. How well did that same defense do at Washington State last Saturday, or at Arizona, Oregon, USC, etc? I agree their schedule is a killer---one where they can't compete except to maybe defeat Colorado and stay out of the basement. How'd that work in 2011 in SLC?

    BYU just didn't execute when they should. Fans deserve better from them. They need an infusion of a killer instinct. They're just too gentlemanly too often, as well as being undisciplined with regards to drive-killing penalties. Talent is there---the coaching lacks direction at times regarding motivation to win.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    This turned out to be a pretty typical year for byu: Lose to your rival, beat the nobodies and lose to all the ranked teams you play(end of season rankings are the only rankings that matter and since we're not at end of season our best guess is current rankings).

    In fact, in the last 4 years, guess how many TOTAL wins against ranked(again, only end of season rankings matter) teams byu has?

    1 win. 4 YEARS.

    Utah state is the ONLY ranked(only end rankings matter) team byu won in the last FOUR YEARS!


  • Staythecourse Ogden, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    Chris B

    Speaking of OWN, when are you going to OWN up to your guarantees that were miscalculated.

    Who says"I told ya" before the game is even over?

    Own up!!!

  • holy moly Herrmian, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:42 p.m.

    Its Karma... Until BYU and Utah fans can get along this is what they get...

    Mark it Down!!! :)

  • Utes home for the holidays Sandy, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:42 p.m.

    Uteology - The writer is saying it, not a byu fan


    Stop it! You ute "fans" pay more attention to byu EVERY year.

    Oh, Brunswick called, they are holding out hope ute fans/players will accept the bowling invitation they just extended.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    At the beginning of the season I predicted that BYU would finish with a 7-5 record and Utah would finish at 6-6. I based that on their schedule and on youth and inexperience at key positions.

    For Utah - Arizona and Washington State turned out to be much better than I expected. The Stanford win was amazing but the Oregon State loss at home was a huge disappointment.

    For BYU - I never expected a loss to Virginia or win against Texas and was doubtful about Boise St as well as Utah State on the road.

    Utah slightly underperformed and BYU slightly overperformed. I don't think I would call either season a disaster however.

    Next year with more experience on offense for BYU and fewer QB problems for Utah the seasons for both schools should be better

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    In my opinion (it doesn't really matter)
    If Utah throws a few less key interceptions and they have a great year.
    BYU learns how to execute and score touchdowns they have a great year.
    Both of these schools have struggled, but there is hope.
    Fix the mistakes that have plagued them and they will have bright futures.

  • Cool Cat Cosmo Payson, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:22 p.m.

    It's REALLY sad when Chris and I agree, because he's right: if all the Utes can brag about is beating us and the Aggies (2 game out of an entire season...and I'll even throw in the Stanford win), then things really are especially bad for the U.

    At least BYU still has something to play for in the post-season, with a bowl game against a quality PAC-12 team (likely Washington, if you believe the sports pundits). All the Utes have to look forward to is their 'storied' rivalry with Colorado...hoping not to lose and claim the official "PAC-12 Doormat-of-the-year" award.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 25, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    "...former Auburn head coach Gene Chizik won a national championship in 2010 only to be fired two seasons later after finishing 3-9. Chizik got just one losing season, and Whittingham already has two.

    Anyone really think he'll still be around if the Utes make it three?"


    Utah's 2014 Football Schedule
    Idaho State - win
    Fresno State - toss up
    at Michigan - loss
    Oregon State - toss up
    at UCLA - loss
    at Stanford - loss
    Arizona - toss up
    Southern Cal - loss
    at Arizona State - loss
    Oregon - loss
    Washington State - toss up
    at Colorado - toss up

    1 win
    6 losses
    5 tossups

    The Utes will have to sweep Utah's tossups in order to save Kyle's job.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    All four of BYU's losses were by 10 points or less. A play here, a touchdown there or a big defense stop at a key time were the difference between an 11-0 or 10-1 record and BYU's actual 7-4 record.


    Stop it! You guys say that EVERY year.

  • ex patria cougar Australia, 00
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    It is truly sad, tragic really. I appreciate this article putting it all into perspective for me. Nothing has a more profound impact on my life than college football -- except for college basketball, and that is where I have now turned my hopes for happiness.

  • Filthy Kuffar Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    BYU at least had some creative plays during their game. Utah is the same old offense: run up the gut on 1st down, run up the gut on 2nd down, attempt a pass on 3rd down, punt on 4th. They always have the same formation with the RB to the right or left of the QB. No I formation, no pro sets, just the same look on every down. I miss the Urban Myers days when they had a bunch of different plays, mis-directions, shovel passes, hook and ladder, and different formations. It's time for a shake-up in the coaching up on the hill. It's boring to watch the same plays with the same results. I won't spend another dime going to a Utah football game until the coaches either get creative, or they get a pink slip.

  • Sore loser tampa, fl
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:29 p.m.

    Every Notre Dame player on the field wore short sleeves and nothing else. BYU however were dressed in many layers. It must have felt for the Irish like hitting a styrofoam cooler when they made contact with the Cougars.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Utah is the 10th best team in the Pac 12. And Utah owns byu and usu.

    Sad state of football for our state.

  • Sore loser tampa, fl
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    I once heard a saying: When ifs and buts are candy and nuts we'll all have a merry Christmas.

    When you think you already won the game before the ball is put into play, why play the game at all. That's Alabama disease, where they still think they beat Utah, they just didn't try but they are still the wiener.

    There is way too much hype around BYU. They had a great team on paper but I think they are being brainwashed into winning the game before they play it and then not competing at game time.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    Both Programs are in trouble....neither coach knows how to recruit and win.....with all the great talent there is out there, too many are not being recruited by BYU or Utah! No excuse for it! Fire Bronco and Whit!