Utah Shooting Sports Council takes aim at Count My Vote initiative

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  • A Chem Engineer Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 21, 2013 10:45 p.m.

    @ Jbarr:

    I hate to burst your bubble, but we are actually "celebrating" the 100th anniversary of the United States' transition from a Constitutional Republic to a Democracy. How so? Read the 17th Amendment, ratified on April 8, 1913. When both the Representatives AND the Senate became elected by the masses (Senators originally were appointed by, and represented the sovereign States, who paid for much of the Federal Government), we became a Democracy.

    Thomas Jefferson stated (and I paraphrase) that all Democracies eventually bankrupt themselves when the people discover that they hold the purse strings to the Treasury. It took the citizens of the U.S. about 60 years to begin discovering that - today you see the last throes of this Democracy.

    The Great Compromise was about dividing the House and Senate in such a way that the Senate ultimately held the purse strings (remember, they represented their State Legislatures, not the masses - because in those days the States carried most of the financial burden of funding the Federal government). The masses, through their Representatives, inevitably want to spend government money; the Senate was in place to check spending and keep the Federal government solvent.

    Hope that is helpful.

  • Rawhide Kid Sevier County, UT
    Nov. 20, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    It should be called the "Buy my vote" group, as that is what will happened.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 20, 2013 9:22 a.m.


    They also warned us against political parties. I will sign the petition to do away with those if you want to run it.

  • jbarr North Ogden, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    The founding fathers warned us about the dangers of becoming a Democracy. We live in a constitutional Republic. Let's keep it that way in Utah! If you don't know the difference between a Democracy and a Republic then do some honest research and find out. It is important for us to keep our caucus system. If we get rid of it then the media will decide who gets elected and who doesn't get elected. Get involved and elect delegates that represent your views at your local caucus meetings.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    Not surprising to anyone with half a brain that the entrenched interests who refuse to listen to their constituencies would oppose allowing the people, the members of a party, to select that party’s candidates.

    Ignore my vote partisans should be ashamed of their blatant attempt to hold on to abused power. One person, one vote is NOT embodied in the current system. No absentee ballot, no vote by mail; what if you are out of town for work? Do you choose between feeding your family and voting?

    What is really disgusting is their attempt to further confuse the issue by launching a counter-initiative with a deceptively similar name – my vote counts (which it doesn’t, really)

    To those who claim the current abusive system allows the little guy with little money to compete, let me ask – how can they compete in the general election with little money? Don’t be so arrogant that you say “all they need is the (R) after their name”.

    Boise, CA. what concern is it of yours? Or are you just looking for an excuse to call names?

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 19, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    A Chem Engineer,

    Lets see, what if I have to work the night of the caucus, what if I am in the military, what if I am out of town on business, etc. etc. etc. I think it is pretty arrogant to assume that simply because people are not at their local caucus they don't care. I didn't say it was right or wrong even though I don't like the idea of electing someone to elect someone. Especially when the person I elected is under no obligation to vote the way I or the caucus voted.

    I said lets be Americans and vote this idea up or down. I think there is a group though that is afraid of letting the people vote. Many of them are current elected officials and delegates who represent the extreme views of the predominant party. It is funny to read peoples comments about there concern about a power grab, I think the real concern is about losing power.

    Bottom line though lets have a vote. Let the people decide if they want to keep the caucus system.

  • rok Boise, CA
    Nov. 19, 2013 7:59 a.m.

    A direct primary is needed or else you get the kooky, far-right RINOs ruling the party and taking it down the toilet bowl with them.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 7:13 a.m.

    "One person, one vote? That's what we have now."

    Back when I was a Republican and attended my local caucus, I didn't vote for a candidate. I voted for a delegate. That delegate is under no obligation to vote how I (or the other attendees) would want them to. How is that "one person, one vote?"

  • cmbennett1 OGDEN, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 1:21 a.m.

    What about people who cannot attend a caucus meeting? This could be people on military duty, people confined to a hospital, people required to work, people serving Missions; any number of things can cause a person to not be able to attend a caucus meeting. Should these people not have their voices heard?

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:34 p.m.

    Whether you like Sen. Mike Lee or not you should consider the following. The delegates almost eliminated him at convention.

    re: Sen. Bennett in 2010. He was not in the top 2 coming out of convention. In fact the more moderate of the two, Tim Bridgewater was selected by 57% of the delegates in the last round of voting by the delegates. If he had received 60% Tim Bridgewater would have been the party nominee and Mike Lee would have been eliminated.

    Sen. Bennett endorsed Tim Bridgewater during the primary, but with voters ticked at TARP and ObamaCare, they went with Mike Lee.

    Sen. Mike Lee was the party nominee after the primary

    The Neighborhood Election and Convention system in Utah is the best way to make sure a grassroots process can win over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone with $100,000 can go against someone with $2 million in election funds.

    We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, the wealthy or the famous. This is a good thing, and should be preserved.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:24 p.m.

    The "bill" Count My Vote, or proposed law is flawed, terribly so. Even some of the strongest supporters admit the legislature will have to fix it if this mess passes.

    We tell public officials to kill these kind of errors in committee, not skip the public hearing, not read the bill and vote to send it to the floor of the legislature to decide if it should pass or not.

    That is exactly what Count My Vote is telling people to do. Sign it, unread, and hope everyone realizes next fall it doesn't deliver. They could have amended it but chose not to and by law, can no longer amend the "bill".

    This proposed law will cost taxpayers millions, $1 Million the first year and almost that every 2 years, with about 1/2 of the unfunded mandate being picked up by the less populous counties, the ones that the same proposed law will cause to be flyover places where the candidates and elected officials won't come anymore.

    We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, the wealthy or the famous. This is a good thing, and should be protected.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:24 p.m.

    The political royalty sponsors of Count My Vote loved the current system when the turnout to the neighborhood caucus elections meetings (GOP) was about 25,000, but when it exceeded 50,000 and 100,000, they no longer want that system because they no longer have the power. They don't tell you that the same delegates, proposed to be elected by closer to 10,000 attendees will still pick nominees such as the replacement for Spencer Cox.

    They claim more people will be able to vote. A large percentage of voters will not affiliate to vote in the GOP primary election and those same people will not be able to vote in a "GOP" direct primary under Count My Vote. They will get to pay more as Count My Vote makes sure the parties will not be picking up the tab they currently do, it will be the taxpayers, unaffiliated or not.

    Don't sign, just to vote on it later. Do read it. Do find out more. I trust if you actually understand what you will get, you will not sign the Count My Vote / Buy My vote initiative.

  • A Chem Engineer Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 18, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    P.S. - that was before we moved to Idaho, which sadly does NOT use a caucus system....

  • A Chem Engineer Pocatello, ID
    Nov. 18, 2013 10:47 p.m.

    @ Fred44:

    As has been said, the caucus system IS "one person, one vote". Anybody wanting to vote needs to attend their mass meeting - THAT is where and when they vote. My wife and I were both selected as electors in our mass meeting, consisting of about 8 people in attendance. Where were the other 100-150 voters that could've voted, but didn't? Who knows; but they had their chance and chose not to exercise it. People who don't care enough to attend their mass meetings, find out what is going on, and VOTE, and maybe even SERVE as electors - are EXACTLY the type of voters the "Buy My Vote" campaign is intended for. Big Money & Media want to buy their ignorant, "couldn't-care-less" votes, for all the reasons stated by others above.

    Just think - a national caucus system might have actually given us a Presidential candidate who would respect the Constitution, instead of King Obama, elected by the "gimme a cellphone and a check" crowd, who probably wouldn't attend a mass meeting in their own living room.

  • American Patriot Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 10:12 p.m.

    We all know that 'Count My Vote' is just an elitists operation and every thinking person in the State of Utah needs to kill their plan to move it forward. RINOs and progressives are attempting to control the state politics and segregate the rural areas from having a voice any longer. It is time to save the caucus system as that is the only true method for the basic citizen to retain their ability to affect state government. I saw this in action as a GOP State Delegate and the RINOs and progressives are everywhere in the GOP.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 9:36 p.m.

    Re: "One person, one vote. That's the America I support."

    Me too. That's why I can't go along with this coup, that turns over candidate selection to the big money crowd. We won't even get a chance to vote until they decide who the right candidates are.

    One person, one vote? That's what we have now. And that's why big money hates the caucus system.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 9:05 p.m.

    Utah Sports Council and other, well supported, fringe groups want to keep the power in a few hands. Either you're for a democracy or your not. One person, one vote. That's the America I support.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    The internet has been a big boon to ferreting out misinformation. Gone are the days when the party "big shots" can dictate how/why the electorate SHOULD feel.

    The "buy my vote" power players get frustrated that WE can't/don't do what they say. After all THEY know best. THEY have the money, and the political connections that come with it.

    Vote down the "buy my vote" initiative. Its' ALL about power and control. YOU have it, THEY want it!

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 18, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    If we really care about what Utahn's think why don't we let them vote on this initiative? What are we afraid of, to many low information voters? It can't be that, because republicans outnumber democrats at least 5 to 1. I would think that those of you who know whats best for Utah would want this on the ballot then it could be defeated and go away for ever. Or maybe......you are afraid that this is what Utahn's want, and it will take the power to select our candidates from the few and give it to the many.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    All I needed to know about "Count my vote" was when I read how the "Establishment" GOP were hoping to take out people like Mike Lee with this. This is a deliberate attempt to weaken conservative influence in Utah.

    It's their stated goal, in fact: They blather on about representing "every Utahn" and not the "conservative base."

    When their motives are so transparently partisan, why should we listen to anything they have to say? Heck, Doug Wright, alleged "Republican", sounds like Harry Reid's press secretary anymore. He's a huge supporter of Count My vote. Wonder why....

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 4:44 p.m.

    Re: "University of Utah political science professor Matthew Burbank said it's not surprising that the shooting sports council would oppose the change to a direct primary."

    It's not surprising that ANYONE with half a brain opposes the big-money Buy My Vote crowd's attempted coup.

    Buy My Vote partisans are ashamed of what real Utahns think and feel, so they're attempting to take over and substitute what they think and feel.

    Which is almost never what we think and feel.