Talk of gun control makes gun sales soar

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  • Turtles Run Houston, TX
    Nov. 21, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    The myth of the "dangers of the gun-free zones" is alive and well here. Unfortunately, the evidence proves otherwise. Of the 62 mass shooting between 1982 - 2012 no one indicates that the location had to do with gun-free zone status. The shooters instead picked these areas instead because of some relation they shared with the location.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    Nov. 21, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    "Attempting to limit access to guns for law-abiding citizens is not going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals."

    I enjoy this statement; it is the key of the entire matter. Guns exist and they can never be eliminated or taken away from us. Good and educated people with guns are a benefit to society as they deter actual mischief, it's those who lack such qualities that are so dangerous with firearms, so let's focus on helping people become good and educated.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 20, 2013 10:46 p.m.

    Gun crazies get paranoid?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 19, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    " Gun free zones are among the most dangerous places in the United States."

    gun-free zones like churches?

    If that is what BYU is teaching perhaps I should re-think my donations.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 6:39 a.m.

    re atl134
    Salt Lake City, UT

    While you are at BYU, consider taking a class in statistics. If you do you will learn that you are more likely to arrive at the truth if you make use of more than one data point. Gun free zones are among the most dangerous places in the United States.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    Why not?

    Rumors like this raise the prices for --

    "Gas" shortages,
    "Pumpkin" shortages,
    "Bacon" shortages.

    Real or not,
    the perception alone is enough to spike the demand causing the "shortage" in and of itself.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihiuahua, 00
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    Even if you got all of the assault rifles off the street, people will just convert rifles into assault rifles. So that will never work.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 18, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    The more I read these articles and posts the more I'm convinced that the whole "gun" issue is really a convenient tool for first of all the sale of guns and then secondly the creation of a field of play where basic social values can do battle armed with statistics, anecdotes, and opinions.

    None of this will change until somehow there is a broad societal agreement that we can't have a society with frequent mass murders, children being shot and killed daily by the dozens etc. Unfortunately we are no where near that as a founding principle and I don't see any movement towards it.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 18, 2013 7:23 a.m.

    I think the whole term "Gun free zones" is simply a phony way to sell more guns. You certainly can't show that former GFZ's are safer once guns are freely allowed. They're liable to show up anywhere as it is. After all, there are as many guns as people in the US.

    Can't we just compromise a tiny bit by agreeing to keep the firearms locked up until they're "needed"? Or does that make one too "moderate" to be tolerated?

  • LDS Libertarian Farmington, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 6:26 a.m.

    And "who" pray tell stokes the fires and promotes the "rumors" of pending "Obama the boogie-man is coming to take your guns"?

    The NRA perhaps?
    The gun manufactures who sell guns?
    The ammo dealers who sell ammo?

    I haven't heard Obama or very many Democrats out campaigning against them.

    Paranoia is fertile group for the ignorant.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Nov. 17, 2013 6:49 p.m.

    Conservatives have proven over and over that all that has to happen is a democrat is elected and gun sales will skyrocket as very gullible conservatives believe every rumor they hear.

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Nov. 17, 2013 6:42 p.m.

    In controlled studies as well as in the field, animals that are overcrowded have the following characteristics: 1) lower birth rate. 2) Increase in neglect of the offspring. 3) Abnormal sexual behavior. 4) More aggressive behavior. 5) Emotional disorders. The same thing can be observed in human populations--in dense populations there are smaller families, more child neglect, more sexual perversion and promiscuity, more crime, and the more emotional disorders (ADHD, schizophrenia, depression, etc.). In animal studies, overcrowded animals have larger adrenal glands, secreting more adrenalin which throws off the whole endocrine system which may be a major reason there are more bizarre behaviors and crimes in larger cities. Gun control won't fix this. I don't know what will fix it.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    cjb -- okay, paranoia fuels the compulsion to purchase arsenals and stockpile ammo. How's that?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    "What in Tucket has a good point."

    No, he doesn't. The least violent states in the US have gun violence rates that are still several times higher than Canada, Japan, and Western European nations so his statement is completely false.

    Your point about urban areas actually has a basis in fact as does the other comments people have made about correlations with poverty in particular, those are legitimate points.

    " If you are truly against violence then work to get rid of gun free zones."

    I'd love to see you petition BYU to let guns on campus, considering you gun lovers insist on there being guns on my campus (and yet my school is the one that had the armed bicycle theft last month... so much for your logic).

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    @ 1aggie
    You ask an interesting question. Utah's homogenous demographics do indeed play a large role in violence rates. In fact, while it is poligically incorrect to look into them, societal demographics answer many of the questions regarding violence in general, and not just gun violence.

    But that's just the point: It would be far more productive to address cultural demographics than gun control, but since it isn't politically correct to do so, the government and the ignorant-but-well-meaning push gun control instead.

  • The.Canuck Tooele, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 2:23 p.m.


    Why stop with guns... what about your opinions? I dislike your opinion and think you are not entitled to it. Should we stop you from spouting off? That's not very fair I think.

    Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. Yes, I am entitled to buy as many guns as I want.
    Gotta love the constitution.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    re one old man

    One could just as accurately say it is paranoia that motivates society to have police and the military.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    Restricting the rights of good people to have guns is not only ineffective in combating violence, it is unconstitutional. If you are truly against violence then work to get rid of gun free zones. This is one thing you could do that actually would work.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    It's really paranoia that fuels gun sales.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    In addition to being a fang-toothed liberal, I'm also a firearms enthusiast. I've just got to say here that the panic-buying and price gouging I observe among my fellow gun owners in response to even the mildest proposals designed to prevent the next Newtown, Tucson, Navy Yard or Aurora is completely insane.

    The conversations I overhear at gun stores makes me wonder what planet I'm on.

    I agree that preventing the next Newtown or Navy Yard will have far more to do with changes in the way we treat people with mental health problems than through gun control measures.

    That said, gun owners have to acknowledge that if you're going to keep weapons away from crazy people then you have to enact and abide by a comprehensive background check system for the purchase of all firearms, and be willing say, "Ma'am, your son/husband has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and since he lives with you, you can't buy this weapon." (Yeah, like that's going to happen.)

    Since when does your love of firepower trump common sense?

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 11:29 a.m.


    How many of those guns sold in VA end up in DC, Maryland and other neighboring states?

    Why don't we compare apples to-apples?
    How does UT compare to other similarly homogenous states?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 17, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    The cherry picking of numbers is just kind of funny? Why no mention of Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina, Mississippi? Because they don't match the story you are trying to thread? When it comes down to it.... gun laws and murder rates by guns have very little correlation. You aren't safer in a pro-gun state (see Texas and South Carolina) nor are you safer in a state that has more regulations (California). California actually has a lower gun death rate per 100,000 then does Texas.

    High population areas where you have large pockets of poverty is the strongest corollary out there. How you get ride of these high poverty and high crime areas is another topic. But then you sprinkle in a few states like Alaska and New Mexico - where populations densities are extremely low, but gun ownership is higher to extremely higher than average... and you have murder and gun murder rates that are also above average.

    Bottom line is the numbers will support any story line you want conjure. What we do know is a 12 and 15 year old are dead, and how they ended up with guns is the question that needs to be answered.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 17, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    You gave an incomplete picture of deaths caused by guns.

    Firearm death rates:

    UT 12.2
    ID 12.8
    WY 15.6
    AZ 14.6

    CA 7.7
    MA 4.1
    IL 8.2
    NY 5.1
    (CDC 2010)

    Study after study has shown that states with stronger gun laws have lower rates of death from firearms.

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 10:23 a.m.


    What in Tucket has a good point.

    Illinois has an overall murder rate of 3.5 per 100,000 (2.8 from guns). Chicago alone has a murder rate of 18.5 per 100,000 (according to Wikipedia 13.875 per 100,000 involve a firearm). Consider how much the state's overall murder rate would drop without Chicago.

    In 2011 SLC's murder rate was 3.2 per 100,000. Contrast that with the broader state's overall murder rate of 1.9 per 100,000 (including all forms of homicide) and it is obvious that SLC is dragging the state's crime rates up. Without SLC, Utah's low murder rates would be even lower.

    So What in Tucket has a strong argument that much of the problem in the USA centers around urban areas and not gun ownership itself.

  • McMurphy St George, Utah
    Nov. 17, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    I have not read the study referenced in the column but I am very skeptical about more education preventing mass shootings such as those in Arizona, Colorado and Connecticut.
    One reason gun control is so popular in some circles is because it is "control"

  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    Gun murders per 100,000 residents (per wikipedia)
    California 3.4
    Illinois 2.8
    Massachusetts 1.8
    New York 2.7

    Utah 0.8
    Idaho 0.8

    If gun ownership and "permissive" gun laws were the cause of gun violence, Utah's and Idaho's gun murder rates should be greater than CA, IL, MA, and NY. Yet Utah's and Idaho's are a mere fraction of the gun murder rates of those states with draconian gun laws.

    Just last August multiple news organizations reported that Virginia gun crime had dropped 5% while gun sales had increased 16% in the same time period. These facts counter the false argument that gun ownership is somehow responsible for crime.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    @What in Tucket?
    "America has about the 4th highest homicide rate using guns. However if you remove from the statistics the 4 largest cities from this list, who have gun control, we are about 4th from the bottom."

    That's false.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 17, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    What happened to the rest of my comment? Anyway, the source was U of Michigan Medical Center.

    From the American Academy of Pediatrics:
    "Gun avoidance programs are designed to educate children as a way of reducing firearm injury (eg, Eddie Eagle, STAR); however, several evaluation studies have demonstrated that such programs do not prevent risk behaviors and may even increase gun handling among children.

    The AAP affirms that the most ef- fective measure to prevent suicide, homicide, and unintentional firearm- related injuries to children and adolescents is the absence of guns from homes and communities."

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 17, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    "Hospitalizations and in-hospital deaths for children with GSWs are increasing. Currently, over 7,500 children are annually hospitalized for GSWs, including over 500 in-hospital deaths. While recent policy proposals to limit military-style semi-automatic assault weapons are important, handguns remain the leading injurious agent and may be a more efficacious target. Household gun ownership and safety practices vary widely by state. There was a significant relationship between %-household gun ownership and %-GSWs occurring in the home. The relationship was dose-dependent with safety measures (any

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 17, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    You one of the first principles of marketing any product is to create the aura of limited supply. You see the signs all over the place. "For a limited time only". "Supplies Limited". In less than two weeks we will be bombarded with like messages.

    The gun lobby has done a wonderful job of creating the panic that if you don't act now... you may not be able to get their product later. Its a perfect marketing program. You create a sense of urgency.... and attach to it the mantle of fulfilling an patriotic imperative.

    I personally love guns... not sure why. Perhaps it was my youth with my Uncles going shooting up in Idaho or in the desert of Nevada. I own several guns... and see no problem with it. And I get why the gun lobby is doing what they are doing... its working.

    But what it is doing is also preventing any serious dialog about how to keep guns out of the hands of kids.... and those who would do ill with them. And for that, we are all losers.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    America has about the 4th highest homicide rate using guns. However if you remove from the statistics the 4 largest cities from this list, who have gun control, we are about 4th from the bottom. There is no evidence gun control works, and a lot that it does. Education I am sure would help. Isn't it interesting that in the nearly 5 years of his reign, Mr. Obama has done nothing to help inner city education other than trying to remove a successful voucher system in D C.

    Nov. 17, 2013 7:13 a.m.

    If education is important is curbing violent crimes, then we need to support parents in educating their children. Teachers often admit that they shouldn't be held accountable for their students lack of achievement.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 17, 2013 12:28 a.m.

    The suggested approach is not laughable, ineffective or wishy washy. It's insane. It's more of the same, and that hasn't been working. We have to remove the concept that everyone is entitled to a personal arsenal free for all, and the only way to do that is to change attitudes. And the only way to change attitudes is to say no, you can't have every gun you want just because you want it.