Airbus is now building in Alabama. Boeing has elements of it's business
all over the US. The days of Boeing being a Washington company are over. Look
at GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Like it or not we now live in a global community and
have to think along those lines. It's obvious the IAM (among others)
haven't figured out that they too need to compete on a global scale.
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTThis happens every few years. Both
Boeing and McDonald Douglas bring Utah into the mix 8:02 a.m. Nov.
15, 2013======== Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas
almost 20 years ago.But I agree with everything else you said.
Wishful thinking --- Boeing is "using" Utah as a bargaining
chip to drive down the costs in competing States.There is NO way
Boeing will do "Final Assembly" in Utah, and here’s
why...Airlines begin booking tickets long before planes are
delivered.So, there are huge penalties for missing delivery.Utah is frozen 6 months of the year.BUT-- We also have
America’s worst inversions.and deliveries would completely stop
during those inversions.A single day slip in delivery costs Boeing
$10’s of millions per day in late fees and penalties to both the Airlines
and Global Suppliers (also under contracts). From a business stand
point, ANY missed deliveries due to weather cost the same as a full blown
Union Strike, and inversions happen every year. So it’s
not even a question about labor costs.My bet?...Long Beach, CA
– and he’s why:Boeing closed the USAF C-17 production
line there just 6 months ago.Big Aircraft Plant, already
established, already paid for, good weather, and an
already skilled workforce now looking for work. BTW -- I've
seen this all before, I worked at Boeing for over 22 years.===========
low paying jobs in exchange for cooperate welfare sounds like a perfect fit for
NightOwlAmerica,I'm not saying it wouldn't be good to get it.
It would be GREAT to get it. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up.
But of course we should try anything we can to get it. Just pointing out that
Boeing, McDonald Douglass, and Lockheed have all been here many times before to
court Utah for their best offer (but they never seriously intended to move here,
they needed a bargaining chip). I think these companies should have
to put some money up front to pay the State for the expense of putting together
the bid. It's always a big gamble. We put $millions into preparing the
bid... and get nothing for it in the end. But Boeing gets a nice bargaining
chip they can use in their negotiations with the Unions.Like South
Carolina proved... it's not impossible, but it's very unlikely Boeing
would actually come to Utah in any big way. But I agree it would be nice for
the economy if they did.
What we should say instead is that we will create the most productive work force
you will find anywhere and then live up to that promise so all businesses win,
not just the political favorites.
Unions always think it is a "worker's market." Sorry but our
economy is not good enough for that. We have an employer's market.
It's sort of like real estate. In Utah Co rental real estate is hard to
come by at a reasonable price whereas there are a lot of good buys in Cache
Valley. It's a seller's market in Provo and a buyer's market in
Logan. Unions can be very hard to deal with.
2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UT said:"This happens every few
years. Both Boeing and McDonald Douglas bring Utah into the mix wherever they
negotiate because they know Utah will offer huge tax incentives and a cheap well
educated labor force. But it's mostly a ploy to get the old place to match
whatever we are offering. It never ends up coming to Utah, no matter what
incentives we offer.We may get aome parts plants or something, but
they would never commit to doing something as large as final assembly in Utah.
It's mostly a ploy to get better offers on the table and scare the other
sites bidding for the facility."The same was said about S.
Carolina. Now look what they are doing. There is great potential for Boeing
expansion in Utah. Talk about a boon for trade schools, community college and
others to train and teach these skills. In addition to some employees moving
there. The negotiator's and power structure of the Boeing market is
not as it once was in Washington State.
I say offer them all sorts of tax breaks. With the jobs that it will create,
the state will have more tax revenues than it would without the jobs.
We need good manufacturing and technology jobs in the worst kind of way.
Overemphasis on tourism and various related gimmicks have left us selling each
other hot dogs, per Lee Iacocca. Time to get quality jobs back in Utah!
I doubt Boeing will move production of that plane to Utah. Investing in the
infrastructure needed to build that plane would be more cost prohibited than
agreeing to keep the current union pensions. Plus it takes skilled
tradesman to build aircraft. Where are they going to find people with those
skills in Utah?
The Union rejecting the proposed contract was shortsighted, they were looking at
short term benefits rather than longer term stability. Too bad for them that
Boeing needs to kill this new plane. Boeing is a business and has pretty fierce
competition from Airbus, they need to save all the $$ they can and giving in to
bad pension agreements is not the way to do that. Also playing
against the Union is the fact that Utah has remained so strong financially
through the bad economy, we've got the ability to give Boeing the short
term farm and thus secure long term rewards. So here's to Utah success in
landing this plane!
B ManHuntsville gets no odds with you? Hmm.
The state definitely wants to attract high skill, good paying jobs to Utah.
While it may be a win-win situation to get Boeing to locate more jobs here, it
is not an automatic thing that should be pursued at all costs.Too
many states offer big tax incentives or dangle other carrots in front of
potential companies only to find out that it is an economic drain when you end
up sacrificing more than you end up gaining over the long run.I just
hope we have very good negotiators who will put the long term interests of Utah
citizens above selfish, short-term interests of politicians. Attract good jobs
to Utah by offering fair incentives that will pay off over the next 10 years ==
GOOD. Give huge tax breaks just so a politician can say "look who I brought
to Utah" or to fill his own election campaign coffers == BAD.
This happens every few years. Both Boeing and McDonald Douglas bring Utah into
the mix wherever they negotiate because they know Utah will offer huge tax
incentives and a cheap well educated labor force. But it's mostly a ploy
to get the old place to match whatever we are offering. It never ends up coming
to Utah, no matter what incentives we offer.We may get aome parts
plants or something, but they would never commit to doing something as large as
final assembly in Utah. It's mostly a ploy to get better offers on the
table and scare the other sites bidding for the facility.
Boeing already moved its headquarters out of Washington state many years ago...
it is now in Chicago.It is also now producing Dreamliners in South
Carolina. Boeing has extensive operations throughout the country and abroad.That said, this would be a great win for Salt Lake to bring these
high-tech manufacturing jobs to the valley. These jobs, and the ones needed to
support these jobs would be a giant boom for good paying jobs.
I don't think this is just posturing. Boeing placed a Final Assembly line
in South Carolina a few years ago, and it would not be the first time they have
reacted strongly to the IAM choosing to put short term greed over long term
mutual benefit. Based on what I have read elsewhere, I think there is an 80% or
better chance that Boeing will put 777X Final Assembly and Wing Production
outside the Puget Sound.Boeing seems to have quite a bit of
confidence in its team in Salt Lake, as evidenced by its willingness to expand
by 850,000 square feet and put new high-tech composites work there.This will be interesting to follow. I would put the current odds by site at
30% San Antonio, 30% Salt Lake City, 20% Long Beach, and 20% Everett.
Here's hoping these thousands of jobs come to Salt Lake City, Utah! It
would be a major coup for the state.
The Boeing Union already forced Boeing to move one production line for the 787
to S Carolina. There is another one in Everett WA. The 777X is a
new plane that can go anywhere even supposedly without OBama running to rhe
rescue with a lawsuit claiming retaliation against unions. We need a
Govennor who will act for the benefit of all the citizens of Washington and not
just the Boeing Union and Teachers Union. PRide and arrogance on
both sides is what drives this problem. Just look what happened with the 787.
The Union is betting Boeing wont want to try it again. We will see.
This sounds like a salvo fired over the bow of the union in Seattle.But
Boeing politics is entrenched in Washington. It would be like the LDS Church
moving its HQ out of Salt Lake.