Believers unite to combat religious jokes and jabs

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  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 8:20 p.m.


    I am pretty confident that 99.99% of Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Hindus would say that it is wrong to strap bombs to your self and blow up women and children. I know many good Muslims. It is the 20% that think that such activities are OK that disturb me. That is 200,000,000 people who think blowing up women and children is cool!

    While you site some positive trends, there is a very long way to go until those who believe in using violence to enforce their religion are on a similar plane with other major religions.

    If enough Muslims stood up and denounced each violent act it would likely reduce the frequency of them. However, 60% thinking their leaders should be more vocal against extremists is pretty lame. How about 99 percent condemning acts of violence in the name of Islam.

  • Mr. Smitty Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    I think we should encourage jokes and jabs about religious beliefs when appropriate. During the past two years, ten children have died in Idaho because their parents refused to provide medical treatment for their children. The parents never went to prison because Idaho has a religious exemption law preventing prosecution of those who believe that faith healing alone without medical intervention is the best way to handle seriously ill children.

    It's hard to joke about this, but it's clear such religious beliefs do not deserve our respect. In fact, they deserve ridicule. Most importantly, Idaho needs to change its religious exception law.

  • Joggle Somewhere In, HI
    Nov. 12, 2013 8:38 p.m.

    Unfortunately, too many people can't separate their religion from themselves so any perceived insult to their religion or beliefs is an insult to them personally. These are the people it is difficult to have a constructive and civil dialog with.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    @Tayler D
    Does "valueing" the "traditions of your newly adopted country" mean they must adhere to the"traditions" or are they allowed to keep their own providing they do not violate the law or the human rights of others? I would contend are then Christian's that do not respect the freedom and rights of others, do you hold them to the same standard or do they get a pass due to "tradition?" Should we make such sweeping generalities of Christians?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Nov. 12, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    @atl134 – “So we can insult Islam, Catholicism, the LDS church, etc, just not the members?”

    It’s not about insulting… it’s about being aware of reality and not letting our liberal sensibilities (most of which I share by the way) make us allergic to justified intolerance. It is no vice to be intolerant of intolerance (again, the religion not the people).

    Was Churchill insulting Germans when he proclaimed the Nazi ideology for what it was?

    RE: Old Testament - if our society was modeled on the prescriptions contained in it, we would look remarkably similar to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan under the Taliban (coincidence?). Thankfully (for Christianity and world peace) the New Testament mitigates much of the socio-pathology found in the Old.

    To all our Muslim brothers & sisters who value freedom, co-existence, women’s rights (not to mention the laws & traditions of your newly adopted country) over the teachings to the contrary contained in your sacred books, thank you.

    Now please help us convince your fellow Muslims the same before religion divides and destroys us all (obviously my blunt approach won’t work).

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 12, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    "As Muslims, Siddiqui and Ahmad shun alcohol, illicit drugs and pre-marital sex — the same values promoted in the BYU Honor Code.

    The men also pray several times a day, focus on the family and stress the importance of religious study and repentance.

    "Whenever I'm talking about the religions, I try to bring up similarities," Siddiqui said. "I think that's a good way of talking about religion."

    And both men are happy to share their beliefs.

    This semester, Siddiqui taught his friends and roommates about Islam during family home evening.

    Last November, Ahmad won the BYU Religious Education Student Symposium with a paper he'd written during his Book of Mormon class comparing Mormonism and Islam.

    "We emphasize the same teachings, the same set of beliefs, even though the way of participating (is different)," Ahmad said. "We're essentially asking for the same thing, asking God for guidance and for repentance. As long as we keep respecting those (common values) … it builds mutual trust and is helpful in the long run."

    (DeseretNews: "Muslims attending BYU focus on similarities between Islam, LDS tenets" Dec 2009)

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 12, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    "These are among the key findings from a survey of 11 Muslim publics conducted by the Pew Research Center from March 3 to April 7, 2013. Face-to-face interviews were conducted with 8,989 Muslims in Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia and Turkey.

    In many of the countries surveyed, clear majorities of Muslims oppose violence in the name of Islam. Indeed, about three-quarters or more in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%), say suicide bombings or other acts of violence that target civilians are never justified. And although substantial percentages in some countries do think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified – including a 62%-majority of Palestinian Muslims, overall support for violence in the name of Islam has declined among Muslim publics during the past decade.

    Overall, views of extremist groups are negative across the Muslim publics surveyed. A median of about a third or fewer have a positive view of al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hamas, or Hezbollah. And in no country polled do any of these organizations receive majority Muslim support."

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    @tylor D

    Clever tactic attacking a simple grammar mistake to shift force from the focus of my point. Christian fundamentalist use the bible to justify the same types of behaviors and just like I do not worry about the 6.9 billion Christians adopting Christian fundamentalist extreme views or view the bible as a vehicle to justify their extreme views, I do not worry about the "billion people holding" the Quran & Hadith will use them to justify adopting the extreme views of Muslim Fundamentalist.

    As to the tone of your comments i think they speak pretty clearly for themselves and will let others decide for themselves.

  • Caring Conservative American Fork, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Just for the sake of clarity in our discussion here: the faith in question here is called Islam. Those who believe or follow Islam are called Muslims. Think of it this way: many readers of this newspaper are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many people in the world refer to them as Mormons. But Mormonism is not their faith -- it is just what they are called. Similarly, there is no Muslim faith. Muslims practice and follow the Islamic faith.

    OK, back to your bickering.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:54 a.m.


    "Hundreds of Egyptian Christians and Muslims gathered in the nationʼs capital on Aug. 22 to protest the acts of violence perpetrated by the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters against minorities — particularly Coptic Christians — in Egypt."
    (NCRegister 2013)

    "Some of the people of Benghazi, where Stevens was killed, held a demonstration against terrorism and to show sympathy for the U.S. "

    "A decade after Sept. 11, 2001, the survey, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, shows that a majority of Muslims say the terrorist attacks made it more difficult to be a Muslim in the United States. Many said that they had been singled out by airport security officers and that people had acted suspicious of them or called them offensive names.

    The Pew study found that six in 10 U.S.-born Muslims faulted Islamic leaders for not speaking out against extremism, as did 43 percent of Muslim immigrants.

    A significant number of Americans remain wary of Muslims. Last year, in a Washington Post-ABC News poll, 31 percent of respondents said that mainstream Islam “encourages violence.”
    (WashingtonPost 2011)

  • mcclark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    Many want freedom of religion, for their own religion. The other religions, not so much. What is the word for that? Oh, yeah, hypocrisy.

  • Fender Bender Saint George, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    I find it interesting how many people try justify the way they disrespect other religions, particularly Islam. It's as though Islam is so much worse than other religions, that an exception must be made to allow the rest of us to denigrate Muslim beliefs (for their own good, of course).

    News Flash - many "Christians" use that exact same sort of reasoning to justify the way they disrespect Mormonism. What goes around comes around, I suppose.

  • Aslan A3 SLC, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    @ cjb you have no idea about the Muslim religion. In fact you haven't even been able to spell it correctly. My mother and father grew up in Iraq. Guess what my Mom has a higher degree from Baghdad University than my dad does. She is a doctor. She was a doctor there is now a doctor here. All you see is what the media here feeds you about the extremist.. How about this how would you feel if everyone judged Mormons by Warren Jeffs and what he did? well that is exactly what you are doing going based off of the extremists.

    By the way: did you know what the Book of Mormon says about African Americans? I have read the entire book of Mormon and have great respect for it because I am not going to judge you based off of Warren Jeffs. I do this because every Mormon has greatly respected me as well.

    So maybe go learn for yourself instead of believing everything you are told blindly. Just like I did when I read the book of Mormon so that I can understand it instead of listen to the stereo types.


  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    @Tyler D
    "I believe the vast majority of Muslims are decent because they’re human beings, and human beings for the most part (unless deranged by ideology or religion) do play nice with others.

    But the religion itself is another matter"

    So we can insult Islam, Catholicism, the LDS church, etc, just not the members?

    ", and we can choose to bury our heads in the sands of PC tolerance but the fact is anyone who reads the sacred books of Islam (Quran & Hadith) will find engines of intolerance filled with passages that support the worldviews of the extremists."

    Ever read the Bible? There's plenty of stuff in there that falls in the same category especially in the Old Testament.

  • American Patriot Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    The first thing I noticed is that Negin Farsad is not wearing the traditional burqa so just how Muslim is she? Or is it that Muslim women in America are not required to wear the burqa?

    Additionally, I have read much of the The Noble Qur'an and as much as Farsad wants to joke about her religion there are numerous passages in that text that make it anything but a laughing matter. According to that text, myself and all the other Christians in the world are infidels. I am NOT and infidel!

    As I see we have nothing in common except for the fact that Farsad is a daughter of God and needs to know the real truth.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    Re Truth seeker

    You are missing the point. While all societies have bad actors, only the Moslem religion / society stands idly by and watches and does nothing when people murder women who dress inappropriate or date men they don't approve. Am I really supposed to respect such a religion?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Nov. 12, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    @spring street – “the hateful tone of your post not with standing”

    First, it is all one word (i.e., notwithstanding).

    Second, can you tell me what is hateful about my tone? And where did I claim all or even most Muslims behave in anti-social ways?

    I believe the vast majority of Muslims are decent because they’re human beings, and human beings for the most part (unless deranged by ideology or religion) do play nice with others.

    But the religion itself is another matter, and we can choose to bury our heads in the sands of PC tolerance but the fact is anyone who reads the sacred books of Islam (Quran & Hadith) will find engines of intolerance filled with passages that support the worldviews of the extremists.

    I admit we have a real problem of trying to find ways to live with the fact that a billion people hold these books as sacred and no doubt there are more diplomatic ways (than my bluntness) of doing that, but I don’t believe lying to ourselves or otherwise ignoring reality is the way to go.

  • friendlybear Glendale, AZ
    Nov. 12, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    It doesn't matter what I think of a person's religion. All I need to be concerned with is the person. I don't want to be judged by my religion, my sex or the color of my skin. Just judge me. For good or bad, I am not always a reflection of my religion.

    As for jokes. If you laugh at the culture of my religion and don't mock beliefs, I will most likely laugh along with you.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 9:53 a.m.

    @Tyler D

    So once again why is it that it is alright to claim all muslims behave and believe the same way as Muslim fundamentalist yet would claim that LDS fundamentalist and Christian undamentalist that have and do engage in the same types of behaviors are not representative of all LFS people or Christians? The truth is these fundamentalist no matter what religion they hide their destain for others (the hateful tone of your post not with standing) is not representative of the larger community.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Nov. 12, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    Article quote:
    “A slight toward a Muslim is a slight towards so many racial groups,” she said.

    Which should serve as proof positive that slights toward Islam have nothing to do with race.

    And this is a very strange article with its juxtaposition of Islam and Mormonism, as if any religion that receives jabs is equally deserving of taking shelter under the umbrella of persecuted victim.

    As sympathetic as we all likely are to this woman’s story, I personally see very little about her religion that is deserving of my respect. Even the best religions still rest on dogmatic adherence to “revealed truths” that often fly in the face known facts and common sense, but if their overall message is one of peace & brotherly love most non-believers see them as relatively harmless (and even a force for good).

    In the case of Islam, that same evidence is not in their favor. Current events (not the mention world history) strongly suggests that when Muslims become a large enough demographic in any area, they have a difficult time playing nice with others.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 12, 2013 8:35 a.m.

    Question: which countries have the largest population of Muslims?
    A: Indonesia, India
    According to Human Rights Watch, honor killings "goes across religious and cultural lines."

    Extremism crosses cultural, religious and political lines as well.

    I've been wondering why there is not a national conversation in this country about the numerous incidents of young white men choosing to massacre groups of innocent people, including children.

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    Nov. 12, 2013 6:49 a.m.

    "The Muslim's are coming" Is everyone still ok with religion and it's symbolism being part of government in the U.S.? Before you answer, remember Christianity may not be the dominant religion in this country in the not so far off future.

  • Ironmomo Ogden, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 6:32 a.m.

    So no more "A Priest, a Minister and a Bishop walk into a bar..." jokes? What's this world coming to?

    "As long as you can laugh at yourself you'll never cease to be amused" (unknown)

  • FT1/SS Virginia Beach, VA
    Nov. 12, 2013 5:58 a.m.

    If your faith is strong enough, the jokes and jabs should'nt bother you. I fire one right back at the person targeting something about them, and watch them fizzle or laugh with me.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 3:32 a.m.

    Believers take their scriptures very seriously. They are "no joke".

    Have you read What horrible things the Qu'ran, the Bible, and the other LDS scriptures say about non-believers?

    Have you seen how believers treat non-believers?

    I have.

    Cease the persecution of and discrimination against non-believers, and officially remove the hateful scriptures from your canons, and we would be happy to "play nice".

    Until then... you started it!

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 2:59 a.m.

    How do I say this to this Moslem woman. A large reason many people don't respect the Moslem religion is because of the way it treats Moslem women. It condones honor killings. Stands idily by while women are denied an education. Forces many women to wear ugly clothes and head coverings and those it doesn't force it brain washes girls into thinking this is what God wants. This puts the girls and women in an emotional prison.

    In other words much of the reason your culture and your religion aren't respected is because you aren't respected ... by your culture or your religion.