Utah Jazz: Home, sweet home? Winless Jazz sure hope so

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  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 13, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    Kakashi: I'm confused by your circular logic. GS and LAC changed their cultures but you want to remove the 16 steps they took from the analysis and focus only on their last hire. Doc can't win with losing teams any more than any other coach. His hire augmented the culture change, it wasn't the complete substance of it.

    GS and LAC did not make their cultural change solely through the draft. Blake Griffin would still be playing on Clipper teams that are missing the playoffs if it wasn't for Chris Paul.

    A culture change happens over time. It is an elemental change in philosophy, attitude, and expectations.

    A positive culture change means the team steps on the court expecting to win no matter who they are playing. It is when other teams fear playing you instead of looking forward to it. It is confidence in yourself but, more importantly, confidence in your teammates, your coach, and your front office.

    A negative culture change is the opposite.

    Do you really think LAC had a bad culture the day before Vinny was fired and a good culture the day Doc was hired? It doesn't work like that.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 12, 2013 4:09 a.m.


    in the past 5-10 years i think we reached the conference finals....Deron Boozer Memo AK47...we had a losing season when we traded for Deron during draft day....we signed Boozer i guess a season or 2 before that....any of that ring a bell?...and then Deron didnt actual commit to Utah...and the brass felt he was leaving...so they started a rebuild...we are playoff bound that year till the trade...we got a 3rd pick Favors in return...and another 3rd pick in Kanter...got burks...got burke...and at 0-8 have position in a draft class as good and deep as the draft class of lebron...so....i dont know...where are you getting at...i did agree with you that having a losing franchise could demoralize a team...don't you think the cavs would reach the finals if they didnt try to get lebron with the 1st pick?...what about the heat with wade? and getting Shaq?....and what were we doing back then? patching up the roster since we lost boozer and picked up Al...that was a patch job not an improvement

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 12, 2013 4:00 a.m.


    aren't the golden state warriors competing for a championship right now? with that loaded roster?...did you think the clippers worked hard to do it?...and you are correct that they Changed....but...what were the latest changes? a new coach for the warriors....and CP3 to the clippers...they have a budding legit star in Curry for warriors...and they signed one in CP3....we dont have that right now....the ownership might night say it out loud but the writing is on the wall...they were willing to lose the season to get a player who has superstar potential in Wiggins and Parker...i am sure that we aren't going to land a superstar anytime soon...and i am not sure we will be able to keep our players...that is why we have cap flexibility...in case we dont get a sure fire star...and if their assessment of the core group wasnt up to expectations...they could remedy it by signing players....so i really dont get the fuss about the team losing...because i really dont expect much from the group as i know this will be a growing year...

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 6:03 p.m.

    I don't think you guys get it. Golden State and the Clippers CHANGED their cultures after years of working hard to do it. Blake Griffin didn't change the culture of the Clippers. He was only one small piece of the puzzle and his culture changing role was no more significant than getting free agent Chris Paul or, for that matter, Caron Butler. Butler may not be around to enjoy the fruits of his effort but he helped change them from losing laughingstocks to feared competitors.

    The other irony in your comments is that I hear this chorus of "we don't want to just make the playoffs, we want to compete for championships." Well maybe you should bring up the Warriors and Clippers when they are competing for championships instead of getting knocked out the playoffs in the early rounds. Maybe you should bring them up when there is something more on their resume than preseason picks to compete. Maybe you should use them as examples when they get to where you say you want the Jazz to be: in the NBA finals or at least the conference finals. Until then, your examples reek of Kool-Aid.

  • Aggie84 Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 5:21 p.m.

    Isn't nice to have 4 decent college basketball teams up north. The best game of the year in the ESC will be the Aggie Y game.

  • fortydam OREM, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    Granny Danger and Kakashi.. very well put.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:44 p.m.


    i would partly agree with you when you mentioned losing culture kills franchises...i agree to the sense that it discourages players and tend to look somewhere else...but i disagree that it would kill a franchise...since a franchise direction usually leads to where the ownership and management wants it to be....an example would be...Golden State took them 12 years to get to the playoffs in 06-07 then another 5 year drought....now they have one of the best teams in the west right now...and how about them clippers? took them 8 years to come back to the playoffs in 05-06 and went on a 5 year drought and got into the playoffs again in 11-12...the rockets a winning franchise...went on a 4 year drought and went to the playoffs at 03-04 and another 3 year drought froom 2009-12...so i think its a matter of planning for the GMs and ownership

  • UkJazz W-Ton, Uk
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:39 p.m.

    @ joe5 "Losing culture kills franchises"

    Well the Warriors n Clippers didn't get killed did they ?

    Maybe hiring that right coach will be a game changer......

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    zabivka: I hope you're right. I jokingly picked them to lose until Dec 7 against the Bobcats (which would make them 0-21). I'm tired of laughing at the Jazz apologists every night when the Jazz lose. I'd love for them to win so I can quit the countdown.

    But they're not just losing. They're losing badly. The players have lost any semblance of swagger. They walk onto the court expecting to lose and it becomes self-fulfilling prophesy.

    Since July, I've harped on the danger of a franchise establishing a culture of losing. It's been met with outrage by Jazz fans. So how do you get them to expect to win next year when they have some hot rookie. Will one player influence the other 14 so they all of a sudden start believing they're a winning team? Or is it more likely that the one will be influenced by the 14 and lose his confidence and become convinced that they are not a very good team?

    Losing culture kills franchises.

  • Chickenhawks Kuna, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    Andrew Wiggins!

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    I've been saying since the beginning of the season that the Denver game would be the first win of the season for the Jazz. Had the back-to-backs been flipped last week (i.e. Boston and Toronto on the front-end of the back-to-backs, respectively), I think we would have seen the Jazz with 1 or 2 wins already, but it was hard on them to play good teams the first night, and then not have anything left in the tank on the second night.

    There will be energy tonight, a home crowd, and an almost-as-bad Denver team. I think we can do it! Go Jazz!

  • dave22 SOUTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    To all concerned Jazz Fans:

    In case you didn't know, the Jazz are rebuilding.. it happens to every team in every professional sports league..

    thank you for your time.

  • Red and Blue VANCOUVER, WA
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    I just read where ESPN ranked the Jazz as the worst team in the NBA, They also stated "the Jazz have fallen flat". Isn't that something to be proud of? Are we just suppose to sit back and be patient or is now the time to do something....anything? Oh how we miss Larry and Jerry!

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Granny: It is not dramatic to prophesy that the Jazz may find another city to call home. I lived through four professional basketball franchises (two in the NBA) growing up in San Diego. Since the beginning of this century (13 years ago), six franchises have relocated. For the mathematically impaired, that's about one every other year. The two most recent teams (Seattle and New Jersey) had been in their cities 41 and 35 years respectively.

    I'm not saying the Jazz are gone. But I will say the conditions that led to these teams' departures bear an eerie resemblance to what is happening in Utah.

  • Granny Danger CHICAGO, IL
    Nov. 11, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    There's no need to get dramatic and prophesy that the Jazz will move to another city. NBA franchises are skyrocketing in value and the Miller family would be foolish to sell the team somewhere else. That said, fans certainly have the right to not support this team and not attend the games. You may even choose to root for another team. You're all free to do so. But please remember that your money doesn't ENTITLE you to a good team. You're paying for the entertainment of watching basketball - it's not an investment to "buy" a better team. I, for one, am glad about the direction the Jazz have taken this season. Someone said Jazz fans have been patient for many years. To the contrary, we've been spoiled for many years. We've had great teams for the better part of 3 decades. Toronto? Milwaukee? Minnesota? Sacramento? Washington? Those fans have been patient. Even the Warriors and Clippers are finally seeing better days. Give it 2-3 years and we'll be back among the league's better teams. Be grateful for what you have while you have it!

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    gehelmke: I don't fit into that category you describe. I've been upset since the Jazz first tipped their hand early in the free agency period. I started what felt like a one-man campaign to expose their stupidity.

    Losing is no surprise to me. Other predictions:
    - The Jazz either trade Hayward at the trade deadline or do a S&T in the offseason.
    - The Jazz draft choice will not be augmented by any meaningful 2014 free agent signing.
    - The Jazz draft choice (Wiggins or Parker) will play the same position (SF) as Hayward (not adding anything to the core four except redundancy).
    - Either Kanter, Burks or both will not sign their rookie extensions and will leave after.
    - In 3-4 years, the Jazz will be cap constrained with big contracts to Favors, Kanter or Burks, Burke, and looking at a big increase for their 2014 draft pick. At that point, they will have to round out the team with inexpensive free agents.
    - The Jazz rebuilding effort will result in a team that finishes in the 4-8 playoff positions for a few years but never approaches the promised land.

    In short, they will be what they already were.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    In order for the fans to help the team they have to have a team they are proud of.... This team is not a product I can cheer for. If the millions they are getting paid to play isn't enough for them to give it their all then we are going to lose every game. Even listless Denver will beat the jazz tonight.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    Maybe it is goodbye Jazz. Jazz fans I would say seem to have been very patient for years. I understand going with youth if the youth have the potential, but moving out Jefferson and Milsap good for 30-40 points a night isn't working.

  • gehelmke Bastrop, TX
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    There are two things about this Jazz situation which confuse me:
    1) I don't understand why all these fans are upset....It's been a known fact for months that the Jazz have elected to get rid of all the veterans and grow a team built around the current youth along with draft choices and maybe a couple of free agents along the way. The goal this season is to give the young core group a lot of court time.
    2) I don't understand why, when they had such a great plan in place, the hierarchy chose to leave their inept coach out there to botch the whole thing up.

    It's my belief that if they leave these kids out there with Corbin for a whole season, he will demoralize them all to the point where they will never be able to perform efficiently in the NBA......and I further believe that it's things like this which make a lot of big time players avoid Utah......I don't think it has anything to do with the size of the market, the lack of African Americans, or the LDS church....It's inefficiency and ineptness.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Good news JAZZ fans...

    Denver has one 2 point win against Atlanta.

    Denver is injury ridden.

    Denver is playing, without energy, for new coach.

    Denver has shown they cannot defend.

    Bad news Jazz fans...

    The game is on NBATV.

    Denver does not want to be the first team to lose to the JAZZ.

    Denver is coming off two days rest.

    According to my prediction of a 12-70 season...

    This should be one of the twelve wins for the JAZZ this season.

  • Mortoon Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 7:03 a.m.

    Yeah right, put me in coach!

  • Red and Blue VANCOUVER, WA
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:47 a.m.

    Canuck...good thought.

    How much patience are we suppose to have. Corbin? I think its time we bring in Jerry to save the year. Lets do something!

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    Go Jazz! I'll continue to stick with you throughout the season! Gordon needs some help out there, so hopefully guys will chip in and get us our first win!

  • The.Canuck Tooele, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    Beginning of the end for the Jazz in Utah. Seattle will be their new home in a few years.
    The Jazz are not the same since the old man passed away. I miss Larry.

    Fans in Utah will not support 15 win (if we're lucky) Jazz team.

    Meanwhile across town RSL is making another fantastic playoff run in MLS.