Pledge allegiance

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  • rabbut Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2013 11:10 p.m.

    Pledging allegiance is mindless idolatry. I use my own moral compass and refuse to support the actions of the elite of this nation unless they align with my morals. Flags are objects and making kids pledge to them encourages robotic behavior void of critical thinking.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 6:16 p.m.

    All students should pledge aliegence to the flag every day? Nonsense, how about pledge aligence to the flag 3 times a year and spend the time saved teaching kids to get along with each other. Teach them the importance of treating others with kindness. Teach them the importance of being diligent with their studies. Spend the time saved achieving excellence in their studies.

    The focus needs to be on academics and getting along with people. Not on a flag.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    " a true American."

    What exactly is your definition of a "true American"?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    After Citizens United --
    I think we should force CORPORATIONS to recite the Pledge of Allegiance each and every morning.

    If they truly ARE people, the perhaps they might actually feel guilty or treason as they offshore and outsource American jobs.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    Irony Guy,
    There is a religious and other exception. I started quoting it above.

    No, there was never a proposal last year to have it every period.

    Besides making it every day for older kids as well, This was added:

    (d) (i) At least once a year students shall be instructed that:
    (A) participation in the pledge of allegiance is voluntary and not compulsory; and
    (B) not only is it acceptable for someone to choose not to participate in the pledge of allegiance for religious or other reasons, but students should show respect for any student who chooses not to participate.
    (ii) A public school teacher shall strive to maintain an atmosphere among students in the classroom that is consistent with the principles described in Subsection (3)(d)(i).

  • Homer1 MIDVALE, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 9:37 p.m.

    In the original legislative debates they actually wanted to make Utah students recite it at the beginning of EVERY period. I say why not every five minutes? Then we'll know for sure who's with us, and who's against us.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 6:58 p.m.

    The Pledge is essentially a loyalty oath more fitting of a totalitarian country than of a free country. If students are going to be required to recite something, why not the preamble to either the Declaration of Independence or to the Constitution?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    If forcing people to recite the pledge made them less selfish and more patriotic then I say we stop worrying about the schools and begin forcing wall street, bankers, and House Representatives to recite the pledge.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    One of my favorite bumper stickers said, "I'm patrioticker than you!" I think we should recite the Pledge every hour we're awake.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    Is it really patriotism or just nationalism? Nationalism can be deadly in the extreme, it's pretty much the core of the Nazi and fascist message.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    A few points. First, doing a ritual daily diminishes it. It will become robotic and the consciousness of its meaning will be lost. Doing it once a week actually makes it more important than say something like taking roll ever day. Second, it is not the original Pledge of Allegiance (written in 1892). In 1954, during the McCarthy hysteria over Godless Communism, "under God" was added by a law of Congress. Third, I have a problem with refusing to participate only with the parent's permission. School should be a training ground for the freedom to follow your own conscience. When I taught high school, we were told we had to take down names of those who did not participate, give it to the administration and their parents would be contacted. Is mandatory participation what are democracy is about? Our principal joked that the student would then be sent to patriotic retraining classes.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 10:22 a.m.

    We already are reciting it mindlessly every single day. Perhaps it's your "private" schools that are refusing to do it.

    Besides, I can attest that no one really pays attention or cares about it. We just mindlessly repeat it.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    I agree with Kalindra. Maybe we should force you to say it before you get your paycheck. Maybe we should make people say it before they get their food stamps or unemployment right after they get drug tested. Maybe we could have everyone voting say the Pledge before voting. It's cheaper than forcing an old age pensioner to buy a state issued ID. I believe in the Pledge of Allegiance but the lack of patriotism is hardly on the priority list of issues. One in six children go to bed hungry. Nourish them, then teach them, then maybe they'll remember the Pledge.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 10, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Let us force everyone to pledge allegiance whether they want to or not. Their religious objections, their personal consciences, their individual principles aside, everyone must be COERCED to stand and say it every day. . . or else what? What would be the consequence for the Jehovah's Witness child who is taught at home that it's inappropriate to salute a manmade symbol? Or for the teenager who won't do it because he just read Nietzsche and profoundly rejects what he sees as "herd behavior"? Or for the conscientious young woman who feels uncomfortable making military-style oaths?

  • Nonconlib Happy Valley, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    Sorry, Melissa, but usually the more you recite something, the quicker it becomes a mindless exercise that you resent instead of cherish. I too had to recite the Pledge every morning at school. It did not give me any feelings of patriotism. I could say the words frontwards and backwards, but they never meant anything to me. I did not gain a sense of patriotism until I spent two years as a missionary in Germany, a country I came to love and which I still regard as superior to the United States in many ways. I might also note that the Germans considered themselves just as free as Americans (perhaps even more so). But when I returned, and my plane flew into New York and I saw out my window the Statue of Liberty, I was filled with gratitude for my country. Not because it was any better than Germany, but because it was my country. It was home. I still have strong feelings of patriotism, even though I see many troubling things here at home. And the Pledge of Allegiance doesn't really factor into those feelings. Perhaps I recited it too much as a child.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    Saying the words by rote means nothing, especially to children who don't understand what they mean. The only thin I remember about the words-by-rote experience I had as a child is not understanding why I had to re-memorize it when two additional words were added to it. My love-of-country came a LOT later, when I really understood what my country was all about. Sayin the words as a child means nothing and does nothing.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Nov. 10, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    While I agree --
    I have to ask, "When was the last time YOU did it?"

    I don't know about schools, but as a Boy Scout Leader,
    We recite the Pledge of Allegiance every time we meet.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    When I was a kid in elementary or Jr. high. We said The Lords Prayer and The Pledge of Allegiance and sing the National Anthem. Who knows the Lords Prayer, or the words to the National Anthem any more.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 10, 2013 7:29 a.m.

    Like a true American? I pledge allegiance to the flag and would you all please follow me to your new class. You see we've shut down the Federal government so our schools no longer have enough money for 4 fourth grade classes. You all will be meeting together.

    Also will you all remember the janitor Mr. Martinez in your thoughts today. His son was killed in Afghanistan yesterday, and be sure to hug all your brothers who haven't volunteered to put their lives on the line...and oh yes, to the Republic for which it stands.....

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 5:57 a.m.

    Once in your life is all you need to make a pledge. You dont' get married every day. Sure have some civic minded activities. Pledging every day created blind nationalism.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 5:42 a.m.

    The notion of "one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" is becoming increasingly elusive in the midst of all the partisan bickering and obstruction among our politicians and their extreme supporters. I don't think reciting the Pledge more often is going to fix that. Ironically, I suspect that those who advocate secession are the ones who recite the Pledge most frequently.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 10, 2013 12:44 a.m.

    As an adult, how often do you say the Pledge? Are you still a "true American"? Do you still have a sense of patriotism?

    Saying the Pledge and being a true American/patriot have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

    The Pledge was not written until 1892 and was not formally adopted by Congress until 1942. Patriotism and true Americans existed prior to the Pledge and will continue to exist even without kids saying the Pledge daily.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 12:20 a.m.

    Perhaps they need to be reminded of the current law in Utah.
    2012 S.B. 223 Pledge of Allegiance Amendments change the once a week to every day.

    See line 34

    Also, the current law is:
    53A-13-101.6 (3)

    (3) (a) The pledge of allegiance to the flag shall be recited once at the beginning of each day in each public school classroom in the state, led by a student in the classroom, as assigned by the classroom teacher on a rotating basis.

    (b) Each student shall be informed by posting a notice in a conspicuous place that the student has the right not to participate in reciting the pledge.

    (c) A student shall be excused from reciting the pledge upon written request from the student's parent or legal guardian.

    See the rest of the law