Utah Jazz: Tough loss to Celtics drops Jazz to 0-5 start

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  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    Farmhand: If you can't understand the difference between the Spurs situation and the Jazz situation, I can't do much to help you. But let me try to explain one more time.

    Duncan was drafted to a team that already had enough talent to win a division championship. The two years prior to the Robinson injury, they won 62 and 59 games.

    Wiggins, Parker, or whoever will be drafted to a team that has not contended for a division championship for five years and may set an NBA record for fewest wins in a season.

    You don't think that is a different situation?

  • Farmhand20 Vernal, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    @Joe5 Does it really matter why or how the Spurs tanked in 1996-1997 ? The fact that they were able to get the #1 pick (Tim Duncan) in 1997 has made them that much better. Four championships since then if I am not mistaken. Likewise the Jazz who have been contenders in the past (maybe not the last few years) now have a chance to draft one maybe even two players in this years loaded draft who could potentially be stars. Plus with some big expiring contracts coming off the books next year they will have an chance to pay Hayward what the market dictates if he pans out. Of course none of it will matter if they don't part ways the the most unqualified coach in the NBA.

  • Hugh G. Hater Swat Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    This team is not "rebuilding". It is imploding.

    You don't rebuild around washed up veterans, players who are undersized, players who have not deveolped, and inexperienced draft picks.

    Remember, this is all by design. This is what team mgt thinks a "rebuilding" team looks like.

  • hamaca Baton Rouge, LA
    Nov. 7, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    "You don't learn to play good basketball by getting your head beat in every night."

    You also don't learn to play at this level playing behind mediocre veterans game after game.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 7, 2013 5:52 p.m.


    you are right that the jazz situation is different from Spurs...but is a bit similar to OKC....they built the team through the draft...getting a surefire star in Durant (who happens to have a poor efficiency outing during his rookie year)...and getting Westbrook and harden...but OKC shows that it is not enough that you built through draft...but you all so have to keep your players as well as improve on your team...i am not sure if the Jazz can do that....i just want to see the team and organization to try and build through the draft....we haven't won a championship ever anyway...so where's the harm in trying to get one with a different approach....and to be honest...it might take a while...it is clear that Favors and Kanter are still raw...and whatever happened to the Kanter that goes after rebounds?...plus...we should've got the coach of Philly...the guy is a teacher...and would've corrected any mistakes our young guys have...he is working with Nerlens Noel...and i wont be surprised if noel develops a jumpshot while injured...

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 7, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    even with henry Deng Pekovic and bledsoe...we'll just be a fringe playoff team...this was always the Jazz's formula...to be in the middle of the pack....but never good enough....i for one personally like Pekovic because the dude shows toughness inside...but what lindsey did...was open up opportunities...that we haven't actually done before...and that was to build throught the draft....also every rookie is an unproven one...till given the chance....

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 5:00 p.m.

    You can see that the Jazz play well in stretches. The 1st 3 games could have gone either way but turnovers and dumb plays have killed us. That said, as the year progresses I think you will see fewer mistakes especially when we get a good point guard running the team. It's hard to know how good Trey Burke will be but I think he can be a big improvement over what we have now. I would be an upgrade over what we have now! I think people are getting upset and making dire projections after 5 games and it's going to take awhile to see progress. But as many have said, loosing games this year could be the best thing for the future. My biggest disappointment has been watching Favors get down on himself especially this last game. He needs to get tougher mentally and play through the tough times. I still believe he can be a monster but he needs to pull his self up by his bootstraps.

  • Queensland Jazz fan Townsville Australia, 00
    Nov. 7, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    Corbin is an atrocious coach. From the body language, to his cliche only lack of insight into game play to his lack of in-game adaptation to flow of players, to his preference for very low efficiency 'veterans'... and I'm not convinced he, or his team of handkerchief wearing assistants, is the man to instil the right team culture moving forward. If we aren't going to resign him aftewr this year, why do we have to waste another year frustrated with his lack of coaching decisions - clearly the worst coach in the league - and move forward now.

  • Capsaicin Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    Jazz losing? No way? Fire the coach. I've been asking them to do this since JS left. The current coache demands mediocrity from his team. He's there asking his guys to be "just good enough" so he can keep his job. Jazz keep making stupid trades and their draft picks are mediocre. Keep the coach and I fully expect mediocre for the next X years he's coaching.

  • Chcjdesq Twin Falls, ID
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    I love the Jazz but to all you fans that say the Jazz are getting better when I watch this team I am reminded of the public defender in My Cousin Vinnie; after his hilariously painful stuttering opening statement he comes back and says "I'mmm gggettting bbbetter." He was fired shortly thereafter. I'm not sure I have much more faith in this team.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    I'm so glad I grew up watching Stockton, Horney and Malone etc, I wouldn't spend a cent going to Jazz game now, especially to pad Greg Miller's pocketbook

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:59 p.m.

    Farmhand: The Spurs are not a good example. They won the division the year before they "tanked." They tanked because their All-Star player was injured the whole year. They were a contender before Duncan was ever drafted. The Jazz situation is nothing at all like the Spurs situation.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:58 p.m.


    To me 5 assists with 20 shot attempts is not a good ratio. I watched the game, yeah he did ok. but it seems as if him, and the whole team for that matter, are content with not playing team ball. As long as they get their shots, everything is ok. The had 14 assists as a WHOLE TEAM last night. Boston, who is a bad team, had 22 assists. I have seen point guards get 14 assists on their own regularly. It isn't team basketball, it isn't good basketball.

    And those that keep saying rebuilding year - the Jazz have several players that were taken early in the draft already. Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Marvin Williams, Burke. Do you think bringing in another young draft pick that may or may not pan out is the answer? It might help, but I doubt it. That is why it is called "lottery" picks. You may get a michael jordan, you may get a sam bowie. You may get a Kevin Durant, you may get a Kwame Brown. With the Jazz track record, Im betting on a bust.

  • DEW Sandy, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    Go figured, Brad Rock said that if the Utah Jazz becomes the worse team or becomes last place then Utah would be in the first pick to take Jabari Parker. Really Brad? Just keep trying little jazz players.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    The Jazz should watch college Bball games, anyone could have seen Burke wasn't all that great, Aaron Craft was better

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    Wow wish I could make millions of dollars sucking at my job

  • sjames AMERICAN FORK, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    Jazz fans should be stoked! This season has 2 main goals: 1) Develop the young players and teach them as much as possible, establish a team culture of winning based on defense. 2) Tank and draft high potential Jabari/Wiggins (I think that Parker could truly be the piece that gets us back to perennial contention)
    It would probably be more useful to measure the core players as a separate team from the rest.Ideally, the young players will play well enough to stay in games, but the Jazz lose many games because of their bench players. Imagine a team that loses 15-20 games by 4 pts or less, then picks up a premier scorer and has flexible cap space with bad contracts expiring. That's what 2014-15 could look like for this franchise. I'm cautiously optimistic.

  • Jazzman72 Springville, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    Right now they are counting on their "core four". Aside from Hayward, none of these guys have had much significant playing time. Tinsley and Lucas are way past their prime and worthless. Let's see what happens when Burke comes back, and Rush and Williams are back and 100%. Most of the other players are past their prime, or are very young and inexperienced. Let's see what happens when some of those young guys gain some experience and confidence. They should land a superstar caliber player in the draft at this rate. Imagine how they core 4 and Burke would look with Wiggins or Parker. Add a few decent role players via free agency, and they will have a decent bench. This year will be very painful, but it could produce some nice dividends in the future.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    Hoping for 0-82. Then Wiggins or Parker and we're good to go.

  • Farmhand20 Vernal, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @ Civil It isn't a "rebuilding year" -- it is another wasted year."

    I doubt you will find many Spurs fans who think the 1996-1997 season was a "wasted year", when they went 22-60, then ended up getting Duncan as the number 1 pick in the 1997 draft.
    It is supposed to be a "rebuilding year", but granted is is kind of hard to rebuild without first having a top tier coach. Corbin doesn't even come close, in fact if the Jazz ever come to there senses and let him go, I seriously doubt you will see any other teams knocking on the door to offer him a job. Also the Clippers may have had a fistful of #1 picks, but that isn't always the best either. You end up with a bunch of center pieces to the puzzle but are unable to get the whole picture. I agree about Neto, I think he has better potential than Burke, just my opinion.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    kevo: You say that I'm emotionally involved as if you mean it to be an insult.

    So first of all, what is wrong with being emotionally involved?

    Second of all, what makes you think I'm more emotionally involved than anybody else who has posted on here? In fact, I think my comments have all been based on reason and logic. How do you define "emotionally involved?" Someone who has a different opinion than you with your cool-headed logic (which so far hasn't been in evidence on this string)?

  • JonA Ogden, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    This is great! We can pick up a top 3 draft pick, hopefully Wiggens but Parker would be nice too. Then with the current youth and the new top draft pick, we gain momentum next year, maybe finish .500 and in 2-3 years we'll be a top 4 team in the West. We just need patience. Long-term Jazz have financial flexibility and great young players with one more to join next summer.

  • ImaUteFan West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    0 - 82 seems well within reason now.


  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    coleman: They are getting better. They are getting noticeably worse game by game.

    You don't learn to play good basketball by getting your head beat in every night. In fact, it takes a toll on confidence (a vital necessity to players), teamwork (a vital necessity to successful teams), and individual habits (because you do desperate things you would normally not do).

    Meanwhile the Jazz are delivering a message to all the players in the league. "Don't come to Utah if you want to be part of a winning organization." I cannot see one good reason why any free agent with any other offer would choose to come to Utah unless the Jazz overpay.

    That means the team is setting up the revolving door. They will continually draft in the lottery and then see their players leave when it comes time to get paid after their rookie contracts. Hayward is only the first to decide to test the waters. Next year the Jazz will have the same decisions with Kanter and Burks. I'm willing to bet at least one of them doesn't come to terms so he can test free agency.

  • kevo Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    Hey Joe. Lighten up a little. You're obviously emotionally involved in all of this. Give it time and these guys will surprise you. They will win some games that no one will see coming.

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. We are in the process of rebuilding after releasing all our veterans and our young players have a lot of learning to do. One of the sore spots, however, is at the point guard position. No one that we have now knows how to control the ball, particularly late in the game, and know how to pass to open team-mates. This should be addressed when Trey Burke gets back although he will need to learn a lot as well. I am confident that everyone in the Jazz organization knew it would be a struggle when you have a young team but you can't teach these young guys how to play in the NBA until they get out on the floor and play. Up until this year, they didn't have an opportunity to do so. We won't have a good record but we will have a team we can build on in the future.

  • Chickenhawks Kuna, ID
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    Say it with me, Andrew Wiggins!!!

  • ed Los Olivos, CA
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    Everyone's favorite, Paul George shot 6 for 19, with 3 assists last night. Hayword shot 12 for 20 with 5 assists.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    BrahmaBull: It's fair to gripe about the Jazz but there is plenty to gripe about while sticking to the truth. Hayward had five more assists last night and he passed on several shots to make passes that did not result in baskets. How exactly does that make him a ball hog?

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    Looking good jazz, looking good. I can see that the NBA remedy for losses is playing the jazz, you will get an instant win immediately. Favors and Kanter aren't starters in this league. They can't score when it is crunch time. They are decent, but decent doesn't win games. Everybody using the excuse as a rebuilding year - it might be a rebuilding decade. When the jazz put this embarassing product on the court it makes me want to never spend another dime going to a game. Management doesn't respect the fans enough to put decent players out there, I am not interested in paying for that crappy product. All the favors and kanter hype is gone, because they just aren't that good. Neither is Hayward, he is becoming a ballhog.

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    The experts say the future looks bright. I don't see anyone with the moxie to run this team. The current roster gets pushed around and used by everyone they play.

  • relientk Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    Salt Tank City!

  • gehelmke Bastrop, TX
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    A grand experiment I heartily approved of appears to be going South.
    We lost Burke to a freak injury....Nothing to be done about that.
    Lucas (the veteran who was to school Burke) proves to be something of a bust.
    Corbin manages to talk the hierarchy into re-hiring the Jamal "The Geritol Kid" Tinsley.

    Now, in the midst of this supposed "youth movement", the Utah Jazz have a 33 and a 37 year old on their starting five...both of whom are well over the hill, though neither would admit it.

    In my opinion, the hierarchy is to blame for not doing whatever it takes to get Neto over here. This business of hurting someone's feelings doesn't wash...Anyone remember how we got Boozer???....Also in my opinion, said hierarchy is to blame for the whole mess....They cleaned out everyone except the one who needed to be cleaned out the most....Ty Corbin.

  • mdp Bountiful, utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    Lets see... we have a talented center who cant defend, another talented defender who wont shoot, and a bunch of others who only want to launch (unguided) skuds, force bad shots, and throw the ball away, and heaven help anyone at the free throw line. I wonder why we are 0-5?

  • fortydam OREM, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    Point guard please. Even if this is a rebuilding year, the Jazz need someone that can run the point. Neto now! Please Burks don't play the point! More Ian Clarke, when he gets minutes he will start hitting shots. Less or no Tinsley. Favors get tougher.

  • JBQ Saint Louis, MO
    Nov. 7, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. You are building a future and loud criticism is only "noise" at this point. I am happy to see Ian Clark playing. He is supposed to be a very good 3 ball shooter. Even if they go 0-82 which is still technically possible, that is okay, Kanter is playing well and Hayward appears to have his head screwed back on. Favors is rebounding but not shooting. They have no point guard right now. As a teacher, Corbin just needs to stay the course and criticism needs to be put back in the "can of peanuts".

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    Kakashi: Why do you feel the need neglect truth in your rhetoric? My opinions during the free agency period are well known. You don't have to make things up.
    - Yes, I wanted to offer Pekovic (a restricted free agent) a toxic front-loaded contract. At best, we get a solid interior presence (better than Biedrins and Gobert together) with a contract that still provided flexibility when we need it to sign our young stars. At worst, Minnesota ends up with a toxic contract that limits their near term options.
    - No, I did not want Monte Ellis or Al Jefferson.

    I wanted Eric Bledsoe rather than an unproven rookie who won't be ready for prime time for several years. By then, some of the Jazz core will be on other teams.

    I wanted to gamble on Xavier Henry (signed for less than $1M) as a role player.

    I suggested S&Ts for Jefferson and Millsap that could have yielded contributing veterans (ie: Deng).

    All my suggestions were designed to protect our precious cap room; cap room that is now worthless since no worthwhile free agent is going to want to play for this organization in its current state.

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    And Corbin continues to struggle to find the right combinations. Just when Favors starts playing better, Corbin pulls him. Ian Clark struggled, yet Corbin left him in the game. Ty still calls timeouts about two possessions too late.

  • Cjp Salt lake, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 6:59 a.m.


  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 6:18 a.m.

    This can't be a surprise to anyone.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 7, 2013 5:25 a.m.

    @Brave Sir Robin

    i dont think anyone is expecting a Kobe or a Lebron to come out from Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks...everyone is expecting for them to learn and grow in the next few years or so...it might be long but i'll enjoy the ride...

    did we have a fist full of number one picks in the past decade? name me one Number 1 Pick in the past 2 decades...i dare you...dont say Deron Williams...Don't say Kanter...Hayward...they weren't number 1 picks...

    i guess you wanted the Pekovic...Al Jeff and/or monta ellis...yeah a playoff spot would be nice...but would that bring home the championship no?....does this current group of young guys can bring the championship...we don't know...this is the first time Favors and Kanter getting 30 minutes a night...and i know for sure...it will be a long ride...but im the kind of guy that is willing to wait...if the team ever bring home the championship...be it with the current players or not...i could proudly say...i was supporting them through thick and thin...

  • I-am-I South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:17 a.m.

    This is team was supposed to struggle with flashes of brilliance but we're only seeing struggles with no flashes. The team was supposed to be competitive but undone by inexperience but they're just plain bad.

    This makes me think on that record setting blowout loss to Houston last season and I realize that this team is fundamentally flawed in ways that have nothing to do with the roster and a good old fashion spring cleaning is in order.

    None of these things would have ever happened under Larry H. Miller's watch. Thanks Greg!

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    All of a sudden it's like a new revelation to many of you that the Jazz are going to struggle this year. Did you all not get the memo? The Jazz are going to probably lose a ton of games. It will be a wild ride, maybe some you you need to get off the roller coaster now and go get on the merry-go-round before you start blowing chunks. The Jazz will slowly improve but it won't happen overnight. My feeling is that if I can put up with Obama another 4 years I can get through a rough patch with the Jazz.

  • jazz4ever San Mateo, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:16 p.m.

    I still feel this is a good team. Just short of a star or leader to be great, who may or may not emerge from this bunch. However, it is clear that the coaching staff is not able to get the best out of them. The scariest part for me is that, a team which played fairly well in the first 3 games with a good chance to win until the final mins, has regressed to losing badly in the last 2.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:59 p.m.

    Through the first 33 games of the season, I see three chances to get a win:
    - Nov 13 New Orleans @ Jazz (game 9)
    - Nov 29 Phoenix @ Jazz (game 17)
    - Dec 7 Sacramento @ Jazz (game 22)
    - Dec 30 Charlotte @ Jazz (game 34)

    I can see this Jazz team setting records for losses. I'm already on record predicting they will be 0-21 before they beat Sac on Dec 7. It could get that ugly.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:51 p.m.

    kevo: This isn't adversity. This is just bad decisions by the front office compounded by bad coaching compounded by players whose skills are regressing instead of improving. These are self-inflicted wounds.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:33 p.m.

    Wow. I thought the Celtics might be the only team worse than the Jazz. Turns out I was wrong.

    Oh, and lol at those of you who think the Jazz have a bright future. This "hot young core" you're all looking forward to seeing in the future has a very limited ceiling. The next Kobe isn't among them. The next LeBron isn't among them. That ideal future Jazz team would be 2-3 at this point in the season.

  • Civil Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:55 p.m.

    It isn't a "rebuilding year" -- it is another wasted year. What are the young Jazz going to learn from a season when the bigs can't get the ball in a good spot, when there are bushels of turnovers, when they are losing every game? NOTHING!

    Players aren't going to progress much in these circumstances.

    Is it a "rebuilding year," or a downward spiral the likes of which the Clippers experienced for decades, despite a fist full of #1 picks.

    The Jazz need a point guard. Go get the kid from Europe. Buy out his contract, or waste this opportunity for him and everyone else to learn.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:31 p.m.

    @Meadow Lark Mark

    errr...this is a rebuilding season...i am sure as a jazz fan you are aware of that?

    @Little Andy
    I agree Lucas and Tinsley...arent that good...but...dont worry...next year we have Neto as a backup...i am not sure...how good Trey Burke really is...because i am not sold on his skills...but if he lived up to his reputation...then once we gets back...tinsley and lucas would get reduced minutes...let's just hope Ty Corbin is creative enough to use alec burks more...those end of game turnovers are costing us...hayward kanter have good stat lines....i wish favors gets his groove and be able to contribute consistently on offense as well....

  • Little Andy Tremonton, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:22 p.m.

    It is not when the Jazz win their first game but "if." They should play anybody (including the bear) before Tinsley/Lucas play. I was afraid of this when they signed them..

  • Meadow Lark Mark IDAHO FALLS, ID
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:20 p.m.

    I guess good bye season for the Jazz. They must be trying to get the worst record.

  • kevo Saratoga Springs, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:15 p.m.

    Yikes, guys. 0-5 is good enough for 30th place! Still, I like what the future holds for the Jazz! Often, character is built in adversity.