Charles Krauthammer: Obamacare sits on a foundation of subterfuge, paternalism and mendacity

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  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:06 p.m.

    Obamacare is not what we were led to believe. Period.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    "Kathleen Sebelius and her people hired that agency to be their scapegoat."

    They hired that agency? Where did you get that nonsense? Here are some acronyms you should research: UNOS, OPTN, NOTA, LAS.

    OPTN was formed in 1984 (quite a bit before this current administration and Sibelius) through NOTA, a congressional bill. OPTN is overseen by UNOS. OPTN is the agency that puts in place the policies dealing with organ transplants. In 2005 (again before the current admin and Sibelius) they had a rule change that put in place LAS. OPTN is the agency that is directly responsible for the rules, these rules aren't just put in place randomly. Much thought is given to them.

    But you want to play politics with it.

    In 2011 351 people died waiting for a lung transplant. Last year 224 people died waiting, including 8 children. Do you know any of their names?

    Lungs for transplant are rare. Their allocation is based on ethical policies that should not be changed on a whim for one person. I'm happy this little girl lived. But who died so she could? I swear I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    "Be honest - how much time have you spent listening to Rush?"

    Patriot, I can't speak for HVH, but I have spent hours and hours and hours for decades listening to Rush Limbaugh. In fact I would bet you that I was listening to him before you were even aware of him. I am very aware of what he says and what his positions are. I also usually know when posters here are parroting him. I have easily spent many hundreds of hours listening to him.

    I'm quite sure more time then you have spent listening to two commentators on MSNBC, bucket or no bucket.

    I have also spent countless hours listening to Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck, as well as other conservative commentators. I have read their books and the books of other conservatives, such as Ann Coulter (as well as her blog) I also read conservative opinion writers, such as Charles Krauthammer and George Will. I watch FOX news. And I spend innumerable hours reading the comments on these most conservative threads.

    I am very aware of the Conservative argument. Can you honestly say you listen to opinion on the left as much?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 5, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    @alfred... Ummm yes. AIG has many forms of insurance, and their practices in one area, impacted their stability and viability in other areas.... thats what. And AIG was not alone.

    And sure, people are being forced to buy coverage they think they don't need. For example, my wife roommate at BYU.... got married, didn't have coverage. Why would she need coverage. She got married, and shortly there after, was pregnant. A few weeks before her due date, she went into labor early. She delivered prematurely. The hospital bill.... well over $100,000, which she and her new husband didn't have coverage for.

    Who paid their bill? You, I, and everyone else who used that hospital. Pretending that these expenses just vaporize when the patient can't or chooses not to pay is denial of galactic magnitude. When one chooses to not insure themselves, they are not taking on the risk, the rest of their neighbors do, in higher prices for everything.

    Uninsured people cost everyone but the uninsured. We pay for those who choose not to pay.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 4, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    @Happy Valley Heretic,

    You don't care that Obama and his minions have decided what's best for YOU? They must think that you're not capable of making your own decisions. They must think that you need someone from the government to "help" you decide what's "best" for you.

    Congratulations, you've just swallowed their line. You've just become one of their "children" who can't be trusted to know how to live without their assistance.

    Don't worry. They'll soon tell you what to eat. What to wear. What to think. How to vote. After all, they know what's best for you.


    You didn't read the post. Kathleen Sebelius and her people hired that agency to be their scapegoat. Is that what you want, a government that "blames" someone that it has hired so that they can say that their "hands were tied"? Tell them that when it's your turn to receive treatment.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    @Happy Valley Heretic "comprehension skills"

    Comprehend this: what angers people is that they are being forced to pay extra to cover items they don't want and will never use. Most of them were satisfied with their old plan, and Obama promised them repeatedly that if they liked it, they could keep it. This was an outright lie.

    Americans put up with a lot of things, but we won't put up with being lied to.

    Lies are now being told in defense of Obama's lies, damaging his party's credibility across the board. At some point his defenders will have to decide how low they're willing to sink.

    "...bad prediction...mistaken statistic...."

    Really, they're going to have to decide.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    re:Happy Valley Heretic

    Be honest - how much time have you spent listening to Rush? Not MSNBC re-translation of Rush but actually listening to Rush. I am betting less than 10 seconds? What are you afraid of anyway?? I would bet any amount that I could quote Rush - any quote - and you would have no idea who I was quoting...correct? On the flip side - I have listened to MSNBC both their commentary and their news coverage. Chris Mathews and Ed Shultz....I admit with a gallon bucket near by just in case. It is intellectually dishonest to claim you 'know' what conservatives believe when you NEVER actually honestly listen. Correct? AGain - what are you afraid of - afraid you might just discover something about your socialist Messiah that ruins your hope n change dreams?

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    "Yes, I do care what happens. Sarah Murnaghan is a living, breathing human being, not some statistic that Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary of HHS, can ignore because Sebelius couldn't be persuaded to act until a Federal Judge ordered her to act."

    That's nice that you care about the girl, Richards. And it is a tragic situation. But you have been told the truth that these rules for transplants have been in place for a long time and have nothing to do with the ACA. I think it's a legitimate to ask why you keep misrepresenting what the truth is.

    By the way, it's nice that you know this young girls name. It took two sets of lungs for her. Can you tell us the names of the two people that did not receive lung transplants because of this? Do you know their names? Did anybody fight for them? Did they die yet?

    It's tragic. The rules were in place for a reason. Sebelius was right not to just arbitrarily change the established procedure. But it is a tough situation all the way around. As these things always are.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    So I'm paying $25 a month for insurance that covers my right arm only, and it has a $10,000 deductible and a $10,025 maximum coverage, and that's not good enough for the gubermant? How intrusive of them to say my plan isn't good enough.

    Lets face it the righties don't have the comprehension skills to recognize a lie, a bad prediction or a mistaken statistic, because they listen to them daily on the radio and can't tell the difference there either.

    Patriot said: "99% of Obama supporters don't care about the facts."

    That's because right wing radio and their fan base only use about 1% facts in their stories, so yeah 99% of Obama supporters aren't worried about your use of so few facts that it literally isn't a threat to those with the the other 99% of the truth.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 6:45 a.m.

    Obama had no right to interfere with private citizens health plans, and no right to judge those plans, and take them away. He did it and this is what liberals do. You are going to hear this a lot from me in the future because I heard it and believe cuts to the essence of the differences between a liberal and a conservative, and by extension a Democrat and a Republican.

    "Liberals care more about quaranteed equality over freedom and liberty. Conservatives care more about freedom and liberty over guananteed equality."

    I know where the founding fathers would stand, and I know where Karl Marx whould stand. Take your pick.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 4, 2013 2:15 a.m.


    June 5, 2013, the Politico: "A federal judge has ordered Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to allow Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old in Pennsylvania dying of cystic fibrosis, to be moved to the adult lung transplant list. Normally federal policy prevents children younger than 12 from receiving donated adult lungs, but Sebelius has been under pressure to change the policy."

    June 4, 2013, the Politico: "Transplant policy in the U.S. is made and administered by the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network working with the United Network for Organ Sharing under contract with HHS."

    Yes, I do care what happens. Sarah Murnaghan is a living, breathing human being, not some statistic that Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary of HHS, can ignore because Sebelius couldn't be persuaded to act until a Federal Judge ordered her to act.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    as always Charles hits the nail on the head. To discover the falsehood that is Barack Obama you must first be willing to study - to understand the facts even when you don't like the facts and then you must be willing to listen. 99% of Obama supporters don't care about the facts - just aren't interested. That is a scary place for America to be in - living a lie. Usually when you live a lie long enough you end up bankrupt and destitute --just ask Greece.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 10:26 p.m.

    "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine

    Progressives should never mention the Founding Fathers, and other patriots like Thomas Paine, if they don't agree with what they said and thought about government. Only in Utah would you find citizens claiming a love for the Constitution, our Founding fathers, and the Declaration of Independence while praising big government. It is truly a mystery to see such ignorance and support of Socialism as a means to better the human condition. Only in Utah!

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Nov. 3, 2013 10:06 p.m.

    "The outburst came when Obama denied that proposed health care legislation would provide free health coverage for illegal immigrants. Immediately, Wilson shouted, "You lie!"

    Illegal immigrants are not getting free health care from the ACA so it was Wilson that was lying.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:16 p.m.

    Joe Wilson said it best "you lie"

    I think that constant defense of all things Obama is starting to get ridiculous!

  • OlderGreg USA, CA
    Nov. 3, 2013 7:07 p.m.

    ACA defenders answer this. My ACA approved family insurance is increasing $40 monthly. There are copayments, no deductibles. The medical qualification was based on *one* employable person (me, way back when). The pool of people covered is 4digits. I suspect the company is making a profit.

    The ACA site unsubsidized premiums are 2-3 times higher than my unsubsidized premiums, have huge deductibles, higher copays, and less coverage. The ACA pool is probably millions of people.

    Where is all that extra money going ( and coming from)? Where is the "affordable"?

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 3, 2013 6:01 p.m.


    That rule was in place long before Obamacare was implemented and President Obama and Kathleen Sebelius did not make that rule, so you can hold off on the crocodile tears. Please don't pretend you care at all for that girl besides looking for another way to bash Obama.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    Utah Blue Devil: One difference in your analogy. In the private sector, when the buyer doesn't want the product, it goes away. Not so with Obamacare. No matter how destructive, dishonest, and unfair, it will remain because it only responds to the needs of big government, not individual decisions. In a word, Socialism! socialism does not work, never has, and never will!

  • Alfred Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 3, 2013 5:00 p.m.

    @Getting Older:
    "You [larry] surely must understand that those 'better' policies cost more than the 'worse policies.'"

    And that's just the insurance premium... The co-pay and deductibles (which Barack Hussein Obama fails to address) drive the cost sky-high.

    @liberal larry:
    "I think that constant attack on all things Obama is starting to get ridiculous!"

    What's not only starting to get ridiculous but has been ridiculous for almost five years, now... Barack Hussein Obama as US President.

    "The biggest entity that needed bailing out during the collapse during the last 2 years of the Bush Administration was, yes, and insurance company."

    Do you mean AIG, who insured mortgage backed securities and other financial derivatives? And who failed to retain sufficient reserves to cover potential insured losses? So what?

  • t702 Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 3, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    KJB1"...and you've been told that multiple times on this board, so why do you keep repeating that lie? It's not going to magically come true, you know...

    Excellent point! I hope Obama is listening

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2013 4:35 p.m.


    So, are you for "death panels" as long as you define what "death panel" means? The fact is that Kathleen Sebelius told the parents of that little girl that that little girl could not be treated. Kathleen Sebelius, in effect, sentenced that little girl to "death". Kathleen Sebelius was the "secretary" who had been authorized by ObamaCare to make that decision.

    It wasn't your little girl, was it. Maybe, to you, she was just a statistic. That's all that she was to Obama and to Sebelius - until the American public told them that they would have nothing to do with a President and a Secretary who, in effect, sentenced that little girl to death because she didn't fit the rules.

    She didn't fit the rules - so she would have died.

    That's ObamaCare for you. If you don't fit the rules, the Government will force you to buy insurance from them at whatever price they set. You have no choice.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 3, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    @liberal larry:
    "The amount of over the top rhetoric about the ACA is simply mind boggling!"

    You mean rhetoric like... 'if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. PERIOD! If you like your healthcare insurance you can keep your healthcare insurance. PERIOD!'? That's not rhetoric. That's bald faced prevarication... lying.

    "The individual policies are commonly referred to as 'junk coverage' and are so lousy that no one in their right mind would keep them..."

    So, you're saying... Americans are no longer allowed to make their own decisions about health insurance. Barack Hussein Obama will make them for you.

    What's next?

    @Roland Kayser
    "George W. Bush's Medicare part D program got off to a start that was just as rocky as the ACA."

    George W. Bush's Medicare part D is completely voluntary.

    "Was Mr. Krauthammer complaining about that? Of course not."

    There's nothing there to complain about. The decision is left to the individual the way it aughta be.

    "All these people who wanted to keep what turns out to be substandard insurance..."

    What does a 65 year old man need with obstetrics/gynecology insurance coverage?

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Nov. 3, 2013 4:16 p.m.

    Actually Obamacare sits on a foundation of the Heritage Foundation, Romney-care and republican doublespeak.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Nov. 3, 2013 3:33 p.m.


    The "little 10 year-old" you love to go on about was in that situation because children that young usually aren't authorized for lung transplants (Fortunately, the rules were able to be changed in her case.) It had absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare or "death panels" and you've been told that multiple times on this board, so why do you keep repeating that lie? It's not going to magically come true, you know...

  • Virginians for BYU Lebanon, MO
    Nov. 3, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    If my washing machine could spin as much as the democrats are trying to spin on Obamacare I would not need a dryer. Obama said over and over, "If you like your insurance, you can keep it. Period. That didn't leave much wiggle room for a misunderstanding. I know I didn't misunderstand. Although I am sure bad insurance policies exist, there are lots of smart people in this country who actually do their homework when purchasing insurance. They compared coverages, reviewed prices and read the fine print prior to selecting coverage. Not everyone needs the government to tell them what is best for them.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    Real Clear Politics has Obamacare at its highest favorable rating this past week than it's had in the previous 3 years even despite the website issues. It turns out that the people in the states that have their own Obamacare exchanges, and those getting through to the website, actually are starting to find that they like what they see.

  • Red San Antonia, TX
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    Obama isn't lying? What?

    Our world has become so gray. It used to be black and white. Clear lines on truth and lies.

    More and more people believe in situational integrity, which is not integrity at all.

    The line has been drawn. Choose your side.

    Truth or lies. I'm not talking about democrats and republicans either. Most politicians have become liars. that is why we need term limits.

    I'm talking about the truth.

    A Spade

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    I find it ironic how people are declaring the death of the ACA.... how it wont work, can't be fixed, and that corporate American just wouldn't be this stupid. Lets review some real history to set the record straight.

    1) The biggest entity that needed bailing out during the collapse during the last 2 years of the Bush Administration was, yes, and insurance company.

    2) Even the best and biggest and well respected companies have launched products which failed to be well received when launched. Anyone remember Windows Me.. and the lovely paper clip that was supposed to help us all out? Or Google's response to Facebook? What, you don't remember it? Yeah, it has been replaced. How about the "New" Coke. Surely Coke has, and had one of the best brand names in corporate America. And yet, they failed to launch a product correctly. There are many more examples. Need we say Ford Pinto? And yet, all these have survived, and in the end, provided great products and services.

    America is at risk... and it isn't from the ACA. It is from failing to address the real risks to our future.

  • Eli Tesecular PhD Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:12 p.m.

    Charles, Charles, Charles.... why must you right wingers continue to be so naïve? You toss around words like "mendacity" and "falsehood" without examining or admitting the necessities that lie behind President Obama's statements. Rather than "falsehood", we progressives prefer... "a statement for better truth". You see, we KNOW what is best for you people. We know you wouldn't elect people like us if were totally honest concerning the details of our plans. Trust me, Charles, you will look back at this moment in history as a minor bump in the road and feel great embarrassment for writing this column... when we are living in the Utopia that President Obama has planned for us.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Dr. Kruathammer did you leave out the flat out provable lies told by the King. Oh yea you did but I though I would mention it anyway.Seem Nixon resigned over a less important lie.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    The lies being told by Obama's supporters that ObamaCare is just warmed over RomneyCare or someother SubstituteTheNameCare are simply that - lies.

    Obama lied when he told us that families would save $2,500 per year on ObamaCare.

    Obama lied when he told us we could keep our PRESENT health care coverage - if we desired.

    Obama lied when he told us that everyone would be covered under ObamaCare without raising prices.

    Obama lied when he told us that there would be no "death panels". Kathleen Sebelius already tried to deny coverage that would have resulted in the death of that little 10-year-old if others had not overruled the decision of that "death panel".

    Bribes were paid to Senators to buy their vote - Nebraska and Louisiana. Bribes were paid to unions to get them to support it - they could keep their "cadilac plans" without penalty.

    Nothing is as promised. Obama and his followers are still lying and pointing fingers instead of owning ObamaCare and fixing it so that it follows everything promised.

    Obama refuses to implement ObamaCare. We should all refuse to participate until all promises are kept - 100% - without deviation.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Nov. 3, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    So two of the best arguments that can be make against the ACA are that we should have the freedom to choose lousy insurance, and that having a minimum standard of coverage is paternalistic? Do you recognize how weak these arguments are?

    I think that constant attack on all things Obama is starting to get ridiculous!

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    The statement was always "keep your policy if you like it" and not anything about it being substandard. No matter whether this turns out good or bad, it was hoisted on us be deceit and is not what was promised. As always the liberals here are once again blaming republicans for something not a single one supported. Why do democrats take responsibility for nothing?

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Liberals demanding that everyone get "quality" insurance, as defined by them, ignore the benefits of freedom of choice.

    Single young people with no health problems find a high deductible catastrophic policy fine for their needs. This allows them to invest the money saved in things that they want more, including saving for future needs. To force them to buy an Obama-defined "quality" policy that covers pregnancy (for men!); drug treatment (for non-drug users); coverage for children under age 26 (when they have no children) and frequent doctor visits (when once a year is sufficient) is just robbing from some people to pay others. This is usually a crime, but not when socialist governments force people to buy stuff they don't want or need, so the government can give it to other people.

    Only those who want single payer government run healthcare can support this.

    Dr. Krauthammer clearly states exactly what is happening, and for what reasons.

    Obama is "fundamentally transforming this country" and not at all in a good way.

    Repeal Obamacare. Replace with totally free market insurance options.

    Obamacare- It's enough to make anyone sick!

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    Actually "Obamacare" should be called "HeritageFoundatioCare" or perhaps "GingrichCare" since it is for the most part a re-do of the health care package drafted by the ultra-right-wing, "conservative" Heritage Foundation and strongly promoted by Newt Gingrich as an alternative to Hillary Clinton's heath care initiative in the 1990s. The Heritage Foundation program even included the insurance mandate that the far right now so strongly despises. Food for thought.

  • Getting Older Riverton, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    liberal larry,
    Though you didn't try to, you made Krauthammer's point again. You say the plans people had were "junk policies." Maybe people chose policies they could afford. Who are you to tell them they have to change? That was one of the article's three main points; paternalism.

    2nd, if they found better plans at a better price on the exchange, it was because they were subsidized by the government. You surely must understand that those "better" policies cost more than the "worse policies." The price on the exchange is the subsidized price. Again, just as the article said, subterfuge is being used. You think it is cheaper but it is really a tax transferring wealth from one to another.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    All these people who wanted to keep what turns out to be substandard insurance is an indication of how badly we need a single payer health care system. Counting themselves among the insured, yet not covered for any number of situations, they seem destined to face catastrophe or end up in an emergency room.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    when trust is not a priority, then lies will do just as well. the media, abetted by the lying criminals in Washington, and the patronizing 'do-gooders' that will lie as they wish so that they can take away choice and liberty. Charles hit it dead center.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    George W. Bush's Medicare part D program got off to a start that was just as rocky as the ACA. Was Mr. Krauthammer complaining about that? Of course not.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 3, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    Another brilliant article Dr. Krauthammer! Should be mandatory reading in every school and college in America! Obamacare is really nothing more than good old Obamafraud.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Nov. 3, 2013 5:56 a.m.

    The amount of over the top rhetoric about the ACA is simply mind boggling! There have been numerous news articles analyzing the claims of people who who have "been thrown off" of their individual coverage plans and the reason is quite clear. The individual policies are commonly referred to as "junk coverage" and are so lousy that no one in their right mind would keep them now that the ACA has established minimum quality standards. Many times reporters covering the stories found vastly superior policies at equal or lesser costs!

    This editorial is typical of the blind hatred that the right has for anything that has President Obama's name on it. It is a real shame that the conservative movement has lost touch with reality to such a large degree!