Obamacare is not what we were led to believe. Period.
"Kathleen Sebelius and her people hired that agency to be their
scapegoat."They hired that agency? Where did you get that
nonsense? Here are some acronyms you should research: UNOS, OPTN, NOTA, LAS. OPTN was formed in 1984 (quite a bit before this current administration
and Sibelius) through NOTA, a congressional bill. OPTN is overseen by UNOS. OPTN
is the agency that puts in place the policies dealing with organ transplants. In
2005 (again before the current admin and Sibelius) they had a rule change that
put in place LAS. OPTN is the agency that is directly responsible for the rules,
these rules aren't just put in place randomly. Much thought is given to
them. But you want to play politics with it. In 2011 351
people died waiting for a lung transplant. Last year 224 people died waiting,
including 8 children. Do you know any of their names? Lungs for
transplant are rare. Their allocation is based on ethical policies that should
not be changed on a whim for one person. I'm happy this little girl lived.
But who died so she could? I swear I'm glad I don't have to make these
"Be honest - how much time have you spent listening to Rush?"Patriot, I can't speak for HVH, but I have spent hours and hours and
hours for decades listening to Rush Limbaugh. In fact I would bet you that I was
listening to him before you were even aware of him. I am very aware of what he
says and what his positions are. I also usually know when posters here are
parroting him. I have easily spent many hundreds of hours listening to him. I'm quite sure more time then you have spent listening to two
commentators on MSNBC, bucket or no bucket. I have also spent
countless hours listening to Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck, as well as other
conservative commentators. I have read their books and the books of other
conservatives, such as Ann Coulter (as well as her blog) I also read
conservative opinion writers, such as Charles Krauthammer and George Will. I
watch FOX news. And I spend innumerable hours reading the comments on these most
conservative threads. I am very aware of the Conservative argument.
Can you honestly say you listen to opinion on the left as much?
@alfred... Ummm yes. AIG has many forms of insurance, and their practices in
one area, impacted their stability and viability in other areas.... thats what.
And AIG was not alone.And sure, people are being forced to buy
coverage they think they don't need. For example, my wife roommate at
BYU.... got married, didn't have coverage. Why would she need coverage.
She got married, and shortly there after, was pregnant. A few weeks before her
due date, she went into labor early. She delivered prematurely. The hospital
bill.... well over $100,000, which she and her new husband didn't have
coverage for.Who paid their bill? You, I, and everyone else who
used that hospital. Pretending that these expenses just vaporize when the
patient can't or chooses not to pay is denial of galactic magnitude. When
one chooses to not insure themselves, they are not taking on the risk, the rest
of their neighbors do, in higher prices for everything.Uninsured
people cost everyone but the uninsured. We pay for those who choose not to pay.
@Happy Valley Heretic,You don't care that Obama and his minions
have decided what's best for YOU? They must think that you're not
capable of making your own decisions. They must think that you need someone
from the government to "help" you decide what's "best" for
you.Congratulations, you've just swallowed their line.
You've just become one of their "children" who can't be
trusted to know how to live without their assistance.Don't
worry. They'll soon tell you what to eat. What to wear. What to think.
How to vote. After all, they know what's best for you.@Mark,You didn't read the post. Kathleen Sebelius and her
people hired that agency to be their scapegoat. Is that what you want, a
government that "blames" someone that it has hired so that they can say
that their "hands were tied"? Tell them that when it's your turn
to receive treatment.
@Happy Valley Heretic "comprehension skills"Comprehend this:
what angers people is that they are being forced to pay extra to cover items
they don't want and will never use. Most of them were satisfied with their
old plan, and Obama promised them repeatedly that if they liked it, they could
keep it. This was an outright lie.Americans put up with a lot of
things, but we won't put up with being lied to.Lies are now
being told in defense of Obama's lies, damaging his party's
credibility across the board. At some point his defenders will have to decide
how low they're willing to sink."...bad
prediction...mistaken statistic...."Really, they're going
to have to decide.
re:Happy Valley HereticBe honest - how much time have you spent
listening to Rush? Not MSNBC re-translation of Rush but actually listening to
Rush. I am betting less than 10 seconds? What are you afraid of anyway?? I would
bet any amount that I could quote Rush - any quote - and you would have no idea
who I was quoting...correct? On the flip side - I have listened to MSNBC both
their commentary and their news coverage. Chris Mathews and Ed Shultz....I admit
with a gallon bucket near by just in case. It is intellectually dishonest to
claim you 'know' what conservatives believe when you NEVER actually
honestly listen. Correct? AGain - what are you afraid of - afraid you might just
discover something about your socialist Messiah that ruins your hope n change
"Yes, I do care what happens. Sarah Murnaghan is a living, breathing human
being, not some statistic that Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary of HHS, can
ignore because Sebelius couldn't be persuaded to act until a Federal Judge
ordered her to act."That's nice that you care about the
girl, Richards. And it is a tragic situation. But you have been told the truth
that these rules for transplants have been in place for a long time and have
nothing to do with the ACA. I think it's a legitimate to ask why you keep
misrepresenting what the truth is. By the way, it's nice that
you know this young girls name. It took two sets of lungs for her. Can you tell
us the names of the two people that did not receive lung transplants because of
this? Do you know their names? Did anybody fight for them? Did they die yet? It's tragic. The rules were in place for a reason. Sebelius was
right not to just arbitrarily change the established procedure. But it is a
tough situation all the way around. As these things always are.
So I'm paying $25 a month for insurance that covers my right arm only, and
it has a $10,000 deductible and a $10,025 maximum coverage, and that's not
good enough for the gubermant? How intrusive of them to say my plan isn't
good enough.Lets face it the righties don't have the
comprehension skills to recognize a lie, a bad prediction or a mistaken
statistic, because they listen to them daily on the radio and can't tell
the difference there either.Patriot said: "99% of Obama
supporters don't care about the facts."That's because
right wing radio and their fan base only use about 1% facts in their stories, so
yeah 99% of Obama supporters aren't worried about your use of so few facts
that it literally isn't a threat to those with the the other 99% of the
Obama had no right to interfere with private citizens health plans, and no right
to judge those plans, and take them away. He did it and this is what liberals
do. You are going to hear this a lot from me in the future because I heard it
and believe cuts to the essence of the differences between a liberal and a
conservative, and by extension a Democrat and a Republican."Liberals care more about quaranteed equality over freedom and liberty.
Conservatives care more about freedom and liberty over guananteed equality."
I know where the founding fathers would stand, and I know where Karl
Marx whould stand. Take your pick.
@KJB1,June 5, 2013, the Politico: "A federal judge has ordered
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to allow Sarah Murnaghan,
a 10-year-old in Pennsylvania dying of cystic fibrosis, to be moved to the adult
lung transplant list. Normally federal policy prevents children younger than 12
from receiving donated adult lungs, but Sebelius has been under pressure to
change the policy."June 4, 2013, the Politico: "Transplant
policy in the U.S. is made and administered by the Organ Procurement and
Transplantation Network working with the United Network for Organ Sharing under
contract with HHS."Yes, I do care what happens. Sarah Murnaghan
is a living, breathing human being, not some statistic that Kathleen Sebelius,
the Secretary of HHS, can ignore because Sebelius couldn't be persuaded to
act until a Federal Judge ordered her to act.
as always Charles hits the nail on the head. To discover the falsehood that is
Barack Obama you must first be willing to study - to understand the facts even
when you don't like the facts and then you must be willing to listen. 99%
of Obama supporters don't care about the facts - just aren't
interested. That is a scary place for America to be in - living a lie. Usually
when you live a lie long enough you end up bankrupt and destitute --just ask
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst
state, an intolerable one." - Thomas PaineProgressives should
never mention the Founding Fathers, and other patriots like Thomas Paine, if
they don't agree with what they said and thought about government. Only in
Utah would you find citizens claiming a love for the Constitution, our Founding
fathers, and the Declaration of Independence while praising big government. It
is truly a mystery to see such ignorance and support of Socialism as a means to
better the human condition. Only in Utah!
"The outburst came when Obama denied that proposed health care legislation
would provide free health coverage for illegal immigrants. Immediately, Wilson
shouted, "You lie!"Illegal immigrants are not getting free
health care from the ACA so it was Wilson that was lying.
Joe Wilson said it best "you lie"I think that constant
defense of all things Obama is starting to get ridiculous!
ACA defenders answer this. My ACA approved family insurance is increasing $40
monthly. There are copayments, no deductibles. The medical qualification was
based on *one* employable person (me, way back when). The pool of people covered
is 4digits. I suspect the company is making a profit. The ACA site
unsubsidized premiums are 2-3 times higher than my unsubsidized premiums, have
huge deductibles, higher copays, and less coverage. The ACA pool is probably
millions of people. Where is all that extra money going ( and
coming from)? Where is the "affordable"?
Mike,That rule was in place long before Obamacare was implemented
and President Obama and Kathleen Sebelius did not make that rule, so you can
hold off on the crocodile tears. Please don't pretend you care at all for
that girl besides looking for another way to bash Obama.
Utah Blue Devil: One difference in your analogy. In the private sector, when
the buyer doesn't want the product, it goes away. Not so with Obamacare.
No matter how destructive, dishonest, and unfair, it will remain because it only
responds to the needs of big government, not individual decisions. In a word,
Socialism! socialism does not work, never has, and never will!
@Getting Older:"You [larry] surely must understand that those
'better' policies cost more than the 'worse
policies.'"And that's just the insurance premium...
The co-pay and deductibles (which Barack Hussein Obama fails to address) drive
the cost sky-high. @liberal larry:"I think that constant
attack on all things Obama is starting to get ridiculous!"What's not only starting to get ridiculous but has been ridiculous for
almost five years, now... Barack Hussein Obama as US President.@UtahBlueDevil:"The biggest entity that needed bailing out during
the collapse during the last 2 years of the Bush Administration was, yes, and
insurance company."Do you mean AIG, who insured mortgage backed
securities and other financial derivatives? And who failed to retain sufficient
reserves to cover potential insured losses? So what?
KJB1"...and you've been told that multiple times on this board, so why
do you keep repeating that lie? It's not going to magically come true, you
know...Excellent point! I hope Obama is listening
KJB1,So, are you for "death panels" as long as you define
what "death panel" means? The fact is that Kathleen Sebelius told the
parents of that little girl that that little girl could not be treated.
Kathleen Sebelius, in effect, sentenced that little girl to "death".
Kathleen Sebelius was the "secretary" who had been authorized by
ObamaCare to make that decision. It wasn't your little girl,
was it. Maybe, to you, she was just a statistic. That's all that she was
to Obama and to Sebelius - until the American public told them that they would
have nothing to do with a President and a Secretary who, in effect, sentenced
that little girl to death because she didn't fit the rules.She
didn't fit the rules - so she would have died.That's
ObamaCare for you. If you don't fit the rules, the Government will force
you to buy insurance from them at whatever price they set. You have no choice.
@liberal larry:"The amount of over the top rhetoric about the ACA is
simply mind boggling!"You mean rhetoric like... 'if you
like your doctor you can keep your doctor. PERIOD! If you like your healthcare
insurance you can keep your healthcare insurance. PERIOD!'? That's
not rhetoric. That's bald faced prevarication... lying."The individual policies are commonly referred to as 'junk
coverage' and are so lousy that no one in their right mind would keep
them..."So, you're saying... Americans are no longer
allowed to make their own decisions about health insurance. Barack Hussein
Obama will make them for you.What's next?@Roland
Kayser"George W. Bush's Medicare part D program got off to a
start that was just as rocky as the ACA."George W. Bush's
Medicare part D is completely voluntary."Was Mr. Krauthammer
complaining about that? Of course not."There's nothing
there to complain about. The decision is left to the individual the way it
aughta be.@Hutterite:"All these people who wanted to keep
what turns out to be substandard insurance..."What does a 65
year old man need with obstetrics/gynecology insurance coverage?
Actually Obamacare sits on a foundation of the Heritage Foundation, Romney-care
and republican doublespeak.
Mike,The "little 10 year-old" you love to go on about was in
that situation because children that young usually aren't authorized for
lung transplants (Fortunately, the rules were able to be changed in her case.)
It had absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare or "death panels" and
you've been told that multiple times on this board, so why do you keep
repeating that lie? It's not going to magically come true, you know...
If my washing machine could spin as much as the democrats are trying to spin on
Obamacare I would not need a dryer. Obama said over and over, "If you like
your insurance, you can keep it. Period. That didn't leave much wiggle
room for a misunderstanding. I know I didn't misunderstand. Although I am
sure bad insurance policies exist, there are lots of smart people in this
country who actually do their homework when purchasing insurance. They compared
coverages, reviewed prices and read the fine print prior to selecting coverage.
Not everyone needs the government to tell them what is best for them.
Real Clear Politics has Obamacare at its highest favorable rating this past week
than it's had in the previous 3 years even despite the website issues. It
turns out that the people in the states that have their own Obamacare exchanges,
and those getting through to the website, actually are starting to find that
they like what they see.
Obama isn't lying? What?Our world has become so gray. It used
to be black and white. Clear lines on truth and lies.More and more
people believe in situational integrity, which is not integrity at all.The line has been drawn. Choose your side.Truth or lies.
I'm not talking about democrats and republicans either. Most politicians
have become liars. that is why we need term limits.I'm talking
about the truth. A Spade
I find it ironic how people are declaring the death of the ACA.... how it wont
work, can't be fixed, and that corporate American just wouldn't be
this stupid. Lets review some real history to set the record straight.1) The biggest entity that needed bailing out during the collapse during the
last 2 years of the Bush Administration was, yes, and insurance company.2) Even the best and biggest and well respected companies have launched
products which failed to be well received when launched. Anyone remember
Windows Me.. and the lovely paper clip that was supposed to help us all out?
Or Google's response to Facebook? What, you don't remember it? Yeah,
it has been replaced. How about the "New" Coke. Surely Coke has, and
had one of the best brand names in corporate America. And yet, they failed to
launch a product correctly. There are many more examples. Need we say Ford
Pinto? And yet, all these have survived, and in the end, provided great
products and services.America is at risk... and it isn't from
the ACA. It is from failing to address the real risks to our future.
Charles, Charles, Charles.... why must you right wingers continue to be so
naïve? You toss around words like "mendacity" and
"falsehood" without examining or admitting the necessities that lie
behind President Obama's statements. Rather than "falsehood", we
progressives prefer... "a statement for better truth". You see, we KNOW
what is best for you people. We know you wouldn't elect people like us if
were totally honest concerning the details of our plans. Trust me, Charles, you
will look back at this moment in history as a minor bump in the road and feel
great embarrassment for writing this column... when we are living in the Utopia
that President Obama has planned for us.
Dr. Kruathammer did you leave out the flat out provable lies told by the King.
Oh yea you did but I though I would mention it anyway.Seem Nixon resigned over a
less important lie.
The lies being told by Obama's supporters that ObamaCare is just warmed
over RomneyCare or someother SubstituteTheNameCare are simply that - lies.Obama lied when he told us that families would save $2,500 per year on
ObamaCare.Obama lied when he told us we could keep our PRESENT
health care coverage - if we desired.Obama lied when he told us that
everyone would be covered under ObamaCare without raising prices.Obama lied when he told us that there would be no "death panels".
Kathleen Sebelius already tried to deny coverage that would have resulted in the
death of that little 10-year-old if others had not overruled the decision of
that "death panel".Bribes were paid to Senators to buy their
vote - Nebraska and Louisiana. Bribes were paid to unions to get them to
support it - they could keep their "cadilac plans" without penalty.Nothing is as promised. Obama and his followers are still lying and
pointing fingers instead of owning ObamaCare and fixing it so that it follows
everything promised.Obama refuses to implement ObamaCare. We should
all refuse to participate until all promises are kept - 100% - without
So two of the best arguments that can be make against the ACA are that we
should have the freedom to choose lousy insurance, and that having a minimum
standard of coverage is paternalistic? Do you recognize how weak these
arguments are? I think that constant attack on all things Obama is
starting to get ridiculous!
The statement was always "keep your policy if you like it" and not
anything about it being substandard. No matter whether this turns out good or
bad, it was hoisted on us be deceit and is not what was promised. As always the
liberals here are once again blaming republicans for something not a single one
supported. Why do democrats take responsibility for nothing?
Liberals demanding that everyone get "quality" insurance, as defined by
them, ignore the benefits of freedom of choice.Single young people
with no health problems find a high deductible catastrophic policy fine for
their needs. This allows them to invest the money saved in things that they
want more, including saving for future needs. To force them to buy an
Obama-defined "quality" policy that covers pregnancy (for men!); drug
treatment (for non-drug users); coverage for children under age 26 (when they
have no children) and frequent doctor visits (when once a year is sufficient) is
just robbing from some people to pay others. This is usually a crime, but not
when socialist governments force people to buy stuff they don't want or
need, so the government can give it to other people.Only those who
want single payer government run healthcare can support this.Dr.
Krauthammer clearly states exactly what is happening, and for what reasons.Obama is "fundamentally transforming this country" and not at
all in a good way.Repeal Obamacare. Replace with totally free
market insurance options.Obamacare- It's enough to make anyone
Actually "Obamacare" should be called "HeritageFoundatioCare" or
perhaps "GingrichCare" since it is for the most part a re-do of the
health care package drafted by the ultra-right-wing, "conservative"
Heritage Foundation and strongly promoted by Newt Gingrich as an alternative to
Hillary Clinton's heath care initiative in the 1990s. The Heritage
Foundation program even included the insurance mandate that the far right now so
strongly despises. Food for thought.
liberal larry,Though you didn't try to, you made Krauthammer's
point again. You say the plans people had were "junk policies." Maybe
people chose policies they could afford. Who are you to tell them they have to
change? That was one of the article's three main points; paternalism.2nd, if they found better plans at a better price on the exchange, it
was because they were subsidized by the government. You surely must understand
that those "better" policies cost more than the "worse
policies." The price on the exchange is the subsidized price. Again, just
as the article said, subterfuge is being used. You think it is cheaper but it is
really a tax transferring wealth from one to another.
All these people who wanted to keep what turns out to be substandard insurance
is an indication of how badly we need a single payer health care system.
Counting themselves among the insured, yet not covered for any number of
situations, they seem destined to face catastrophe or end up in an emergency
when trust is not a priority, then lies will do just as well. the media,
abetted by the lying criminals in Washington, and the patronizing
'do-gooders' that will lie as they wish so that they can take away
choice and liberty. Charles hit it dead center.
George W. Bush's Medicare part D program got off to a start that was just
as rocky as the ACA. Was Mr. Krauthammer complaining about that? Of course not.
Another brilliant article Dr. Krauthammer! Should be mandatory reading in every
school and college in America! Obamacare is really nothing more than good old
The amount of over the top rhetoric about the ACA is simply mind boggling!
There have been numerous news articles analyzing the claims of people who who
have "been thrown off" of their individual coverage plans and the reason
is quite clear. The individual policies are commonly referred to as "junk
coverage" and are so lousy that no one in their right mind would keep them
now that the ACA has established minimum quality standards. Many times reporters
covering the stories found vastly superior policies at equal or lesser costs!This editorial is typical of the blind hatred that the right has for
anything that has President Obama's name on it. It is a real shame that
the conservative movement has lost touch with reality to such a large degree!