Letter: Crocodile tears

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  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 1, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    So how many RedShirt's are there? The libs are always getting accused of doubling up but really.

    I was well aware of that part of the law when I wrote what I did. I just think it's a reallllllll stretch to think someone is going to delay getting married because of insurance. Maybe some of the other costs but not health insurance.

    What is more likely is what we have now, (here we go with reality again) large numbers of kids getting married and then continuing to live with or through their parents.

    Personally I'm not a fan of this part of the law without some real restrictions (maybe they are there and you and I aren't aware of them) however, the small number of kids (even if it's a few million) who are covered by their parents insurance rather than buying their own, won't have any serious effect on the mathematics of law.

  • RedShirtUofU Andoria, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    To "pragmatistferlife" actually the ACA does not make young kids step up and be part of society. The ACA is seriously flawed in that it was based on the idea of getting the young to pay for the old, at the same it it allows the young to remain on their parent's insurance until they are 26.

    It isn't forcing them to be part of society. It has the opposite effect. It allows them to avoid growing up and becoming adults for a few more years.

    So, you have kids avoiding buying their own insurance until age 26, and now when they do, it will cost them several thousands of dollars more. Many will now delay marriage and children simply because they cannot afford it, and will most likely have fewer children.

    Now, the house of cards begins to collapse because it is all built on rising generations, but there are fewer kids to pay for the older generation, like yourself.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 7:04 a.m.

    Ironically; the leftists gone wild on these posts pretty much confirm the letters message

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 31, 2013 5:31 p.m.

    This is liking the Superbowl... which hasn't happened yet.... is a flop because the web site to get tickets is having issues...... Are people really that bent on seeing the worst. It is a dang website.... not the program itself.

    This morning I was standing in line to check in for my flight from Barcelona on a US airline. Midway through check-in the airline made an annoucement that their system had just crashed... and that we would have to wait to check in. This was entirely irritating, as I knew we still had security and boarder control lines to get through, but it was still an hour and half before flight.

    Now no one in line was making stupid claims that the plane was unsafe, or that the airline was a failure because their site crashed. About 15 minutes later, the system was restored and we all got on the flight without issue.

    The Obamacare flight doesn't leave for another 3 months. To say it is now a failure, before boarding has even started.... is just frankly either naive, or just looking for problems. Complain when it finally starts, but to proclaim failure now is just ... stupid.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Oct. 31, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    Waa waa, but I'm crying for you. Being a conservative allows you to read minds and predict the future obviously.

    Except, nobody took your guns, the population didn't erupt in violence when Obama was elected and the ACA is already getting the uninsurable health insurance.

    How sad is it that you would trade the ability for others to go to the Dr for your own political comfort. Especially when health insurance pools were a conservative idea.

    We pay twice as much per captia as the closest nation for health care. We should be able to insure 15 -20% % more people with it at least for goodness sake. I see tears but it's not from democrats.

  • Cobra sandy, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    I appreciate the varied opinions to this Letter. I'm a centrist - not Republican or Democrat - and wrote it because I see on national news stories, people who are whining about how their premiums are soaring, deductibles are rising and plans are canceled. And RedShirt is right - doctors are leaving practice or are rejecting ACA patients. In Mass. 42% of doctors will not accept ACA patients which will overload the system for those who will. Wait times will be longer, visits will be shorter and the quality of medical services will deteriorate. We will have a Canadian or UK-like healthcare system, the center-piece of Obama's "Fundamental Transformation of America". I believe history will regard Obama as the worst president (even worse than Carter!) in the history of our Republic, who will do more to adversely affect our society than any other. Choose a topic: gay marriage, gun rights, size of big government, healthcare, jobs, race relations, geopolitics (remember leading from behind?)...and more. He has been on the wrong side of these issues consistently. The responsibility for these adverse developments for all of us lie at the feet of those who voted for Obama.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 31, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    So Red Shirt, because the ACA makes young people step up and be apart of society it's a bad deal. This paper is constantly running articles about the selfishness and immaturity of the young. Everything from not getting married to living with their parents long after they have married. In addition the comments that follow those articles are rife with posters blaming the liberals, and Democrats for this phenomena. Now the liberals are saying enough, you all have to play this time...and it's a bad thing?

    I'm sorry but personally I'm sick of the younger generations whining about being forced to be part of society. It's really irritating when paying social security, and Medicare taxes, buying health insurance, is seen as pilfering the future of the young. Stand up and be part of the society you belong to. Make changes, adjust, improve, that's what adults do, but quit being whiny babies about having to play.

    BTW, young'uns, quit getting teary eyed about our troops and join up.

    Ok, I can go get my coffee now, I feel better.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 7:34 a.m.

    The entire Obamacare thing would have more traction were it not for the entire health insurance situation in America heading south with no help from the President. The opposition denies that all of us see yearly when the "new" premium for health insurance is announced. They have no alternate plan when they ask that Obamacare be "repealed and replaced". The rest of the world is laughing at our inability to figure this thing out while paying double what they do and getting less for it. Obamacare is our best shot for now. Bring it.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    Limbaugh, Hannity and the house Republican tea party are actually getting a lot of information and creating interest in the ACA by talking about it non-stop. Limbaugh and Hannity ironically helped get the President elected and will help Hillary for her next two elections. Complaining and whining instead of coming up with plans, proposals and alternatives has been backfiring for six years.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    Joe Blow

    "..,where is all that money going?" That my friend is the question of the 21st century. I believe that you, I, or most anyone else could have done for this country what needed to be done if we had been given 7 trillion dollars to spend. That there has not been much improvement in the problems that existed in 2008, leads me to believe that we may have our first "trillionaire" hiding out somewhere in the U.S. Because the country certainly does not seem to have benefitted from the money. Where is all that money going? I wish we knew. Where will the money come from to pay it all back? I wish I didn't have to know.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    To "JoeBlow" those are not my claims, that is what the feedback has been from the ACA.

    See "Obamacare Is a Raw Deal for Millennials" in USA Today. There we find that for the young adults they are experiencing 235% increase in their insurance premiums.

    Read "New York doctors flee Obamacare: ‘I plan to retire’" in the Washington Times and "Obamacare has doctors planning exit" in WND to see that many Doctors are looking to get out of the business or go cash only thanks to the ACA.

    So, you agree that the ACA will make care more expensive because what doctors remain will be able to charge a premium for their services.

    In theory the money is going from the younger healthy people to pay for the retired people. Some call this generational theft.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 1:04 p.m.


    And besides CBS, got any references for those claims

    "Tell us, with an average of 73% increase in the cost of insurance in 45 states, how does that make it more affordable?"
    So is Utah Not one of those states cause mine didn't go up that much and no one I've talked to has led me to believe that they've been hit with a 73% increase.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 30, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    Help me out here Red.

    You claim that costs are going up and that "thanks to the ACA many doctors are retiring early"

    I highly doubt that they are retiring because they are getting paid more.

    So, where is all that money going?

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Oct. 30, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    To "Blue" what do you mean it is too early to call the ACA a failure. Even the complete title shows that it is a failre. It is the Affordable Care Act.

    Tell us, with an average of 73% increase in the cost of insurance in 45 states, how does that make it more affordable?

    CBS News reported that "More than 2 million people getting booted from existing health insurance plans" That means that 2 million people lost their insurance, thanks to the ACA.

    Thanks to the ACA many doctors are retiring early, going cash only, or are dropping Medicare patients. This makes access to medical services more difficult and costly for some.

    The ACA has caused many employers to cut back hours for part time workers.

    The ACA increased taxes on medical device companies, making life saving devices and medications more expensive.

    Tell us again how it has succeeded?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihiuahua, 00
    Oct. 30, 2013 12:01 p.m.


    Free Food
    Free Healthcare
    Free Room and Board
    Equal pay
    Free Education
    Only the Guards Have Guns.

    Liberal Paradise.

    They call it prison for a reason and this is it.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    Do you realize that when you just ASSUME that any thought that's critical of Obama MUST have come from the right-wing radio conspiracy... you make your comment sound totally partisan and hollow?

    Even "Right-Wing" people CAN have their own thoughts. Not every criticism of Obama comes from the oft blamed but mostly fictional Right-Wing Radio conspiracy.

    Obama IS a religion to SOME people. Global Warming IS religion to SOME people. Party politics ARE like religion to some people.

    As for the "even if you didn't vote for him, He's your President" comment... I agree with that. But were you saying the same thing when many Democrats nationally and many of the people who post their support for Obama in the DesNews every day were the same people who couldn't accept Bush as their President, either because they didn't vote for him, or because they were convinced that IF enough appeals would have been allowed there would have been a way to make Gore the winner, or Kerry the winner??

    If you DID post the same sentiments back then... I respect you.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    @2 bits.

    I see left leaning folks, liberals and others complain all the time about specific reasons they are displeased with Obama.
    What I don't see is unfounded rhetoric parroted from their radios without so much as looking up the misinformation they gleefully post day after day.

    Right above your post is an example: Hutterite said: I did not get what I voted for. Single payer health care.

    A little further up-Open Minded Mormon said: BTW - I didn't vote for Obama [or Bush, or Clinton, or Bush Sr.] in any of the elections for the last 30 years, but they are/were STILL my Presidents, just as they are yours.

    Nope the radio fans seem to use faith over logic and hate in place of reason.
    I see well thought out comments from most of the above posters who may point out the hypocrisy of the "right" in defense of what they acknowledge isn't the only or best answers to problems the country faces, but at least it's an attempt to fix a problem instead of obstruction and status quo.

    Obama is not a religion, even though the right has cast him as the devil.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    Chris B - How much of that $7 trillion was mandatory, non-discretionary spending that was in place before Obama took office?

    That is not a rhetorical question, please answer it with an actual number. If you refuse to answer or can't do honest research to find that number, you really have no business throwing blame around for debts and/or deficits.

    I am not an Obama fan, I vote third party; but reckless statements such as yours need to be reigned in. Please, do some independent research and you'll find out who was truly behind the lion's share of that debt spending.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    How did you vote for Single-Payer Healthcare? I didn't see that on the ballot.

    Obama supporters also claim they voted for the ACA. I never saw the ACA on any ballot either. People keep claiming they voted for it, but I don't think so. You can vote for Obama, but that isn't the same as voting for the ACA.

    Last time I checked only people in Congress got to vote for or against the ACA. And we're not in Congress... so we probably didn't get to vote for it, or against it. We may have voted for a REPRESENTATIVE who promised to vote for/against it... but that's not the same as actually voting for/against ACA, or Single-Payer healthcare, etc.

    And just WANTING something, or campaigning for something (like Single-payer government healthcare) isn't the same as actually voting for it.

    IF you really want single-payer government healthcare... quit your job and you will eventually qualify for Medicaid (which IS Single-Payer Government Healthcare). If you really want it so bad... it's already available. But most working people don't seem to WANT to switch to Medicaid.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    Complaining about the ACA is boring.
    Suggesting alternatives or improvements to the ACA is cool.

    Deseret News, don't publish boring letters -- choose to be cool.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 9:41 a.m.

    RanchHand is right. You will never see any of Obama's supportive posters complain about ANYTHING the great Obama does. That would be make them a heretic.

    They will support WHATEVER Obama does... no matter what. They won't acknowledge any problems or criticize anything Democrats do, no matter what goes wrong.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    I can't believe that vote matters.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    I'm not complaining or crying, nothing changed for my health insurance which is a very common insurer round these parts. I work for a small business with 3 diabetics on staff, with various degrees of ongoing health challenges and our insurance went up a small % which it has every year for the last 15 or so. I have used my insurance once, for a dislocated shoulder I couldn't manage to get back in myself. Total bill was less than 2 months premiums.

    Should I complain about my good health and luck in avoiding bankrupting accidents?
    As a member of society I'm glad my premiums can offset those who haven't been so lucky, and it really is just luck.

    Nope the only Crocodile tears’ seem to come from rabid radio fans second hand hearsay and unsubstantiated, "I know a guy, who's mother's sister had a cousin who's premiums went up 1,000,000%.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    Real Maveric,

    Barack has added 7 trillion to the debt. That's almost as much as every other president in the history of our country combined. Barack is a failure.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    Ok, and those who voted for Reagan and the Bushes have no right to complain about deficits and massive war costs.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    Question for people like the letter writer.

    Would you rather the ACA be a colossal success or a complete failure?

    Be honest.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    I did not get what I voted for. Single payer health care.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    Other than the registration problems, I'm quite pleased with ACA so far. My insurance has changed, but my daughter who couldn't get affordable insurance for her young family now has it. I think it's going to work.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 7:56 a.m.

    This letter is the kind of discourse we do not need. What good can come from it? Every president elected in my lifetime has been liar to one degree or another. What is the point? Politicians are politicians.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    It's _way_ too early to be declaring the ACA a failure or a success.

    What we do see is that for most people who have to buy health insurance privately (a tiny % of the population), the states that cooperated in the creation of insurance exchanges are doing well, and that states that refused to participate are experiencing problems getting its citizens signed-up.

    Some people who have had cheap "catastrophy-only" policies are discovering that these substandard policies don't meet ACA minimum requirements, and so yes, a tiny number of people are "losing" their health insurance. But they can sign up for much better health insurance policies at prices much better than were previously available, or never available, to them.

    Conservatives just hate hate hate the ACA, and now they're angry angry angry that people are having trouble signing up for it.


  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 30, 2013 7:08 a.m.

    Crocodile Tears?

    Is that sort of like listening to Utah Republicans complaining about Senator Orrin Hatch and voting for him time and again anyway after 35 years?

    How about cheering on Mike Lee threatening a Government shutdown, and then crying like little babies about it when it actually happens?

    How about voting for GW Bush and then complaining about;
    Federal Spending,
    WallStreet Bail Outs,
    NSA spying,
    Endless un-funded Wars,
    and complete economic meltdown,
    and high unemployment?

    BTW - I didn't vote for Obama [or Bush, or Clinton, or Bush Sr.] in any of the elections for the last 30 years, but they are/were STILL my Presidents, just as they are yours.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 30, 2013 6:50 a.m.

    "peer through campaign rhetoric that is designed to deceive a gullible electorate for the sake of retaining power."

    I suppose that you bought into Romney's campaign promises that he would

    - lower tax rates by 20% across the board
    - increase military spending

    And still manage to
    - balance the budget

    And he would give you all the details right after he was elected.

    Newsflash. Politicians will say anything to get elected, even Republicans.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 6:25 a.m.

    Oh good!

    Using this very same argument then all those who voted for Reagan and/or Bush cannot complain about the economic situation nor the debt, since these 2 Presidents are most responsible for the current plight we're in. This would essentially eliminate 99.9 percent of what is said on fair and balanced news and AM radio!

    Complaining about the debt and economic situation even though you voted for Reagan and Bush is merely, crocodile tears!

    As John said, maybe we will learn from our experience? Maybe we'll learn from the anti-tax, anti-regulation, and "trickle down economics" that this only hurts most of us while enriching the very few. Maybe next time we won't reelect a President who sends us to 2 wars while handing out tax cuts (which mostly benefit his rich friends).

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 5:17 a.m.

    So far, the only people I've seen crying are conservatives.