$5000 fine. 200 Hours of community service. 3 years probation. Appology video
stating how stupid they were and a commitment to stay out of any parks for a
The should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law--both men. An example
needs to be made of distraction of formations hundreds of thousands of years
old. They took away part of our history. They should 10 years in federal
prison, and mandatory derive of seven years.
Let's be clear...these men have suffered from making and posting a video of
their stupidity. That is what they've suffered from. Other than being
removed from their Scouting positions, they haven't suffered any penalty
for their actual destructive act.Victimless? Hardly, their family
members must be suffering now because of their posting. I imagine their spouses
and kids are taking heat as well as them. And what about the youth under their
care? We don't want them to become additional victims who believe that this
kind of behavior is acceptable in our society because of the horrible example of
these 'men'.Fine them with X hours of community service.
There is no question there should be punishment involved. The public nature of
their actions leaves no doubt that the event occurred, and is widely known.
However, to send these men to prison for multiple years, tag them as felons and
destroy their lives and those of their families seems a bit over the top. A good
judge will find a creative punishment that allows them to feel the weight of the
crime yet does not crush men and families. When criminals committing
rape and murder or conducting businesses that entrap hundreds of their fellow
human beings in drug addiction get off with a slap on the wrist, it seems our of
proportion to insist on "locking them up and throwing away the key".
Really, folks? Is this what we've devolved to as a society--a continual
lynch mob? Consider if those involved were your father, son or brother. Would
you still want to destroy their lives?
Punishment? Certainly--a fine and probation will suffice (as they do for most
misdemeanors). Jail time? Get real--I suppose you want a pound of flesh, too.
No need for jail time and fine. BUT, why not let those two guys lift this rock
back to where it was and stand gaurd? No dumb idea. Community service at Goblin
Valley with out pay for a month in July 2014. That might work. Any idea?
Physics27; When I was studying geology at the UofU mayn years ago, one of the
things we were taught is how these marvelous formations maintained themselves
without falling. it seems that the underlying suport layer of very soft stone
would be eroded by wind. When that happened, the center of gravity would shift,
and that shift would cause the softer stone on that side to compress, making it
harder. with the shift in the center of gravity, the less compressed side would
start to erode faster and then the process would repeat, up until there was no
longer enough surface area to support the rock no matter how well balanced. I
watched the youtube video and it took a considerable amount of effort for him to
topple it, so I don't think that it was in imminent danger of falling. The
area was preserved as a state park for the very formations that they vandalized.
I have been to Goblin Valley and I have not seen any effort by the state of Utah
to preserve it as a sacred place where the spirits of native American ancestors
are represented in stone. To the contrary, they manage it pretty much as a
playground where people can roam at will on and around the hoodoos. That's
not a reason to knock one of the hoodoos over, but let's not get carried
away and make this out to be some insult to the sacred spirits of long ago.
Finally, if one million people visit the park and spend ten thousand dollars,
how much money is spent per person? One penny. Hyperbole works best when
it's internally consistent.
@my 2 cents,I didn't know that the county has a "County
Prospector". What does he/she do? Look for gold nuggets? Sorry- but I
couldn't let that one pass without saying something. Anyway, Goblin Valley
is a State Park, not a National Park. It is on state lands, not federal lands.
And yes the County can prosecute acts that violate county laws even if it is on
state lands- just like they can prosecute you if you do something illegal on
land that you own.
The problem isn't that they tipped a rock. The real problem is the hundreds
of other scout leaders who are now contemplating doing the same thing to secure
their release from their scout calling and a likely lifetime ban from having to
do scouting again.
30 days in jail and a $5,000 fine along with a community service video of him
apologizing and explaining why ruining a 2 million year old rock formation was
an extremely thoughtless and stupid thing to do.Then let him get on
with his life.
So many perfect people in the world.
For those of you who keep saying, "It's just a rock"...I remind you that for thousands of years, it was a sacred area to the Native
Americans who believed those "rocks" [HooDoos] were spirits of their
anciestors.ANDIF it's just a rock, Please
explain why millions of people spend tens of thousands of dollars and travel
here from all over the planet just to see THOSE rocks!I'm mean,
it's just a rock - right?!
I'm getting my pick ax and heading for Delicate Arch.I mean,
heck its gonna fall some day. Maybe I will get a medal.
They, and the son who filmed it, should all be banned from scouting for life.
Obviously they do not understand the Outdoor Code:As an
American, I will do my best to - Be clean in my outdoor manners. Be
careful with fire.Be considerate in the outdoors.Be conservation
This kind of idiocy has gone on for as long as there have been things to wreck.
What might be called 'unique' about it is that now there is the means
to self record and display the idiocy, and it actually seems to be a motivating
factor in the destruction. It shows how self absorbed, and stupid, we're
If you ignore it, you will condone it. If not a trial, what is sufficient
punishment? Thrown out of Scouting is obvious. Suffered enough, not hardly,
they damaged citizen property on a lark.A trial seems to be the only
recourse to set an example.
MartinStrange that you would use the example of cutting down a
redwood tree in a park named for the giant sequoia. Ponderosa pine, cedar, lodge
pole pine, whitebark pine, red fir, foxtail pine are also present there. It is a
beautiful park, and is well worth the visit.I trust I am not the
only man breathing a sigh of relief that most of my scouting was completed prior
to the advent of YouTube.
Class B misdemeanor Criminal Mischief may be considered if the action recklessly
endangers human health or safety or if the value of damage is less than $300.
Punishable by up to 6 months in jail and fines reaching $1,000.Class
A Misdemeanor Criminal Mischief Recklessly endangers human life or the damage is
valued at between $300 and $1,000. Punishable up to 1 year in jail and fines of
$2,500.Third Degree Felony Criminal Mischief: if the damage caused
by the act is valued at between $1,000 and $5,000. Punishable by up to 5 years
in prison and fines of $5,000.Second Degree Felony Criminal Mischief
Recklessly causes or threatens to cause a substantial interruption or
impairment of a critical infrastructure or if the damage caused in the
commission of the offense is valued at more than $5,000. Penalty of 1 to 15
years in prison and fines reaching $10,000.Do the crime do the time. Give
them the option to plead to a lower charge. And I think that the Goblins were
In 1954 it was proposed that Goblin Valley be protected from vandalism. The
state of Utah later acquired the property and established Goblin Valley State
Reserve. It was officially designated a state park on August 24, 1964. So all
you people who think thy should just be let go. Vandalism is vandalism. And yes
there should be charges brought against them.
If they had vandalized a church I doubt there would be anyone on these threads
crying, "it was just a window and some bricks! Sure they posted a video of
themselves bragging about destroying something that many care deeply about, but
haven't they suffered enough?"Folks, I say with all sincerity,
that the place they vandalized is as important to many as your meetinghouse is
He should get some kind of fine and probation, but let's remember, it is
just a rock and let's not completely destroy his life over it. Sure it was
something that took thousands of years to create, but don't we all
participate in destroying something that took just as long to create every time
we pave over something or mine for anything that we use in our lives?
Vandalism is never right, especially if you are destroying public property. Like
the old saying we've all heard, "you do the crime, you do the
I agree with those who say there must be consequences for this unutterably
stupid behavior. However, I'd hate to see these men given prisons
sentences.How about 100 hour of community service in state parks.
That would let the "punishment fit the crime."
What some posters here don't seem to acknowledge is that this was an act of
vandalism. Let them off the hook? Why? Would you want someone who tagged your
garage prosecuted? What about the bowery at the local park? If someone cut down
a redwood in Sequoia National Park, should they be prosecuted? Vandalism is
vandalism is vandalism. And it should be prosecuted if only as a deterrent to
others who might consider doing the same thing. The "goblin topplers"
haven't yet paid enough--they need to be accountable for their illegal
I can't believe how many people get themselves into serious trouble by
posting videos on Youtube. Honestly!This guy probably needs to get
a fine and a good lecture. That's all. It was a dumb thing to do and he
knows it. Let's keep our sense of proportion.
@casual observer"Boy Scout leaders yet they were not wearing
Scout uniforms in the video. Some punishment's in order, but let's not
run wild. A judge can consider "time served" which is what they have
experienced, i.e they are out of Scouting and everyone thinks they have the
common sense of yeast."I'd say at least let the system run
its course over the prosecution of vandalism and be public. We've had
several other cases where individuals have run amok like this and destroyed
irreplacable icons and from the perspective of other vandals, nothing happened
to the perps. We try to preserve these icons of natural beauty for a reason and
the establishment of national parks was partly for this.
Don't know why the county prospector is getting invloved, unless its to
defend the actions of citizens acting to prevent others from being harmed by an
impending rock slide some commons sense in their actions. The
prosecutor cannot prosecute anyone, its a federal property and county government
has no authority on federal lands unless they are tying to wrest criminla
control of the parks and recreation sites in their proximity of the county
boundaries.The park service would have had no choice but take the
same action if they stumbled on the hazard and these men should not be charged
with any crime. Saving lives and people from injuries is a national past time
avocation as shown by the hundreds of awareness groups who have formed for the
same reason, prevent others from harm.
Now, how about a video of apology and some community service in action to help
clean up Goblin Valley.
Ahem.....that should be FORMER Scout leaders...they got tossed, remember?
Boy Scout leaders yet they were not wearing Scout uniforms in the video. Some
punishment's in order, but let's not run wild. A judge can consider
"time served" which is what they have experienced, i.e they are out of
Scouting and everyone thinks they have the common sense of yeast.
@Reasonable PersonNice login. What would make this
right? Fine him a million dollars? Jail for 10 years?He did a
stupid thing. Wasting tons of money to prosecute him will net us what? Prison
time that we will fund at the cost of 30K per year? I think he must be
embarrassed and I doubt he will ever do anything like this again. I
just think it is an incredible waste of time and money to prosecute him for
toppling a rock.I guess you want to get the torches and pitchforks
and nail the fool, eh?Where is this outrage when something is done
that really matters?
My family went to Goblin Valley years ago and loved the unique "goblins"
out there. For someone to say that one of those goblins was set to fall at any
time, yet this one had to be shoved while bracing one foot against another base
and using excessive force needs to understand - it wasn't going to happen
any time soon! That's really a disgrace to the natural course of events in
nature. Let Nature do the shoving and moving. People are only
visitors the awe-inspiring park. Don't take away the opportunity from
others to visit by destroying the park's goblins.
Let it go? What kind of message is that sending? If you post a video of
yourself acting like an idiot, then you pay the consequences, both personally
and legally. Let them off? Throw the book at them. Maybe that will send the
Sure it wasn't the right thing to do and they should be fined but get ahold
of yourselves people. It was a rock sitting on a mound of dirt. People are
acting like it was a murder. It could have fallen on its own within a few
"They have suffered enough"Wow. Just wow.Let's
just open up our Utah State Parks to ALL the vandals! Heck, let them
topple all the Goblins, then move on to This Is The Place.Why not?,
It would be a waste of time and money to prosecute this case. I imagine they
have suffered enough. Let it go.