Letter: Health insurance

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  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    @ pragmatist

    Why on earth would you, in all your genius, ever think my moral is going to match up with your moral? Why do you lay out a 100K scenario? Why not 1 million? Does that make a difference to you? is 100K a moral procedure that requires coverage, but 1 mill is a limit that goes beyond your morality requirements? ....or do you have an unlimited price on moral welfare requirements?
    Referring again to your question above: what makes you think the patient receiving free insurance, because he couldn't afford it pre obamacare, is more likely to pay the 10K then the 100K. I say he is going to pay neither. He is just as likely to claim bankruptcy from the smaller amount as he is the larger amount, so what have you really solved? Either way we get stuck with the whole amount, because it really comes down to a pool of free handout public money.
    Going back to your morality, I say life isn't fair. Some are going to die when other live. Even with your precious obamacare, there will still be injustices involved. You've solved NOTHING!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 5:24 p.m.

    So HaHa.. now they're left with 10 grand in out of pocket rather than the whole 100,000. Or do you recommend that they just blow off the whole "got my foot in the door" and stick you with the entire 100 grand?

    Either you think everyone should have access to health care, and everyone should pay for that access or you think, only those who can afford access should have that access, or you think everyone should have access and only some should pay (I'm leaving out everyone should pay and some should have access). You choose. Once you choose then tell me how you are going to do it and why it's moral.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Oct. 30, 2013 4:09 p.m.

    Very nice Forrest

    limiting my free speech, doesn't change the color of your nose! Yeah we get it your part of the 47% or your friend is or your kid is, just waiting around for all the free stuff santa barry is going to bring you. That is the only side of the equation you look at. Covering the cost of theft makes me spend $1000 more at the grocery store every year. The government subsidizing my 47% neighbor's rent down the street, makes my rent $2000 every year so what is your point? The difference is private market decision, and public FORCED purchasing. Your a big government guy, thinking its their job to make life fair.
    I would love to bet you on your ER scenario. I will lay odds that your precious obamacare will not change the ER situation one bit. Going to be funny watching all those who couldn't afford insurance before, get left with 10 grand of "out of pocket" healthcare expenses, just because the have insurance now, and got their "foot in the door"!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 30, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    "According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million Americans who buy their insurance individually should expect to receive a cancellation letter over the next year."

    Oh boy we caught BO in a lie. Simple minds looking for simple solutions..or simple talking points.

    The projection comes from the grandfathering clause of the law. If you had individual purchased insurance in 2010 your plan was exempt from many of the ACA requirements going forward. However..because the individual policy market has a high turnover rate in both participants and plan details, many of the new individual plans don't meet ACA standards and will have to change.

    So, the ACA is not "causing/forcing" the 14 million people who had individual policies in 2010 to lose their policies. If however you have changed our policy or have entered that market since 2010 (knowing full well the consequences) your policy will have to comply.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 10:37 p.m.

    Lost in DC said: "If I'm happy with my Chevy Aveo, why should I be forced to buy an Impala. yeah, the Impala is bigger, nicer, more comfortable (costs more to buy and operate), but I was happy with the Aveo. BO said I could keep the Aveo. Turns out he lied and you area saying - yeah, but you get an Impala instead. I didn't want the cost of the Impala, I was happy with the Aveo."

    Yes, you are getting the Impala, and paying the cost of a Cadillac.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:09 p.m.

    Sal is confused. Her 99 year old mother is not paying premiums for Medicare. She might be paying premiums for the Advantage plan that's a stop gap, but she should be able to shop for better terms -- especially if she's 99!

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    You aren't telling the whole story. Part B(outpatient) premiums didn't change at all, Most don't pay a premium for Part A, but if they do it didn't change. Her Part D plan could have changed, as prescription drug coverage is administered by private insurance and the program doesn't include premium controls. The other thing that could be happening is if she is on a Medicare Advantage, which is a hybrid between Medicare and private insurance. But again those rates are all determined by the private insurance, as the government just pays them to run the Medicare program for however many Medicare members they have enrolled on their program. And if you don't like Part D or Medicare Advantage send a letter to George Bush, as both programs started on his watch.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 4:46 p.m.


    BO said, "If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."

    If I'm happy with my Chevy Aveo, why should I be forced to buy an Impala. yeah, the Impala is bigger, nicer, more comfortable (costs more to buy and operate), but I was happy with the Aveo. BO said I could keep the Aveo. Turns out he lied and you area saying - yeah, but you get an Impala instead. I didn't want the cost of the Impala, I was happy with the Aveo.

    Axelrod said on MSNBC that "most people are going to keep their own plan." When asked about Axelrod's admission of "most" as opposed to all, Carney acknowledge that some individual's plans will be canceled.

    Even uber-liberal MNSBC called the misadministration out.

    What BO said back in 2009 was "[Obamacare] is for people who aren't happy with their current plan. If you like what you're getting, keep it. Nobody is forcing you to shift."

    Turns our folks ARE being forced to shift. I'm perplexed. You say you seek truth, yet defend what even MSNBC determined was untrue.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 4:03 p.m.


    You are absolutely correct. “One man being forced to pay for another man's healthcare is a form of socialized medicine”. Only it’s not just a form of Socialized medicine, it is socialized medicine.

    Whenever the members of a society agree to share the cost of their needs, they are being socialistic. All of the activities of our government are socialistic. In every case we pay a share (taxes) and receive our share of protection, enablement and services from the common pool of effort.

    Private insurance is Socialistic. Members of the group pay into the pool and receive benefits from the pool according to their need.

    The main difference between government and private insurance is that the larger the group, the greater the benefits created by its synergy.

    Being a member of a socialistic group does not prevent the individual from buying into private sources of benefits. The county has a socialized residential trash service. If you have something that doesn’t meet the standards of residential trash you can take it to the dump yourself.

    If you want medical service outside the socialized set, you can buy it your self.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 3:23 p.m.


    "One man being forced to pay for another man's healthcare is a form of socialized medicine." By credible estimates, I pay $1000 per year in excess premiums to cover the expensive care of those who have no other recourse than to go to the emergency room. By your definition, this is socialized medicine. Hardly. It is health care by chaos and callousness. No other civilized country would put up with such a primitive and inhumane system. Only here in America where we have declared that health care is a privilege for the privileged, not a right. We are like the mother who saw her son marching by in a parade and was heard to exclaim, "Why look, everyone is out of step except my Johnny!"

    And DesNews, I would invite you to remove the comment I am responding to because of the extremely crude (excremental) insult in the first line. Please look up "brownnose" in your dictionary.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    Ultra Bob - second try. Suspect the Deseret News mods don't like positive stories about the ACA. My son is now able to have potential life-saving surgery for a pre-existing condition instead of bankruptcy or a lifetime of indentured servitude. if my premiums (or yours) go up to cover deserving young aduts like him, so be it. Those are the true costs of providing care in America for those who deserve it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    "Because of the requirements of the new laws, we can no longer offer your current individual health benefit plan"

    No details about coverage, deductibles etc. of your old plan? How will it compare to your new plan?

    "The individual health insurance plans being cancelled this fall are generally being discontinued because they do not meet new ACA standards for insurance. The law requires that plans cover a package of what the federal government defines as “essential health benefits.” These include basic categories of care, including hospitalization, emergency care, maternity services, mental health services and prescription drugs. Many plans sold on the open market offered coverage so skimpy that it did not protect consumers from financial ruin."

  • Daniel Leifker San Francisco, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    From the letter I received from my medical insurance provider, which terminated my policy and will replace it on Jan 1 with a plan that is 75% higher:

    "Because of the requirements of the new laws, we can no longer offer your current individual health benefit plan and you will need to change to an ACA-compliant health benefit plan, which will become effective January 1, 2014."

    I show this letter to my liberal friends (I am a libertarian) and they seem to be in utter denial. They claim that ObamaCare isn't the cause of all these policies being terminated, but when I reread my letter to them they simply claim that ObamaCare is "improving" my policy so greedy insurance companies can't make obscene profits.

    I liked my original plan. President Obama said I could keep it no matter what. I can't.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 12:26 p.m.

    In the war on Obama, his enemies show no quarter. And like the cable news, any hint of being fair and balanced is grossly untrue.

    Every day in my limited access to the world, I am deluged by reports of failure of President Obama and our national government. I seldom see any hint of praise or acceptance.

    The reports of losing the “insurance you have” are the only ones we see or hear. If there is someone out there who kept their insurance, please write a letter and tell somebody.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    According to the Democrat party and main stream media you don't exist. Yes the tiny fraction of people who have seen their rates sky rocket is too small to measure...at least that is what Jay Carney and his boss want you to believe. This happy little land they have created ....just doesn't exist but don't tell Barack that because he doesn't want to hear it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    Again, no details.

    Update on Center Anti-Fraud Efforts
    The Affordable Care Act has enabled the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to expand efforts to prevent and fight fraud, waste and abuse.
    Over the last four years, the Obama administration has recovered over $14.9 billion in healthcare fraud judgments, settlements, and administrative impositions, including record recoveries in 2011 and 2012.

    Since the Affordable Care Act, CMS has revoked 14,663 providers and suppliers’ ability to bill in the Medicare program since March 2011. These providers were removed from the program because they had felony convictions, were not operational at the address CMS had on file, or were not in compliance with CMS rules.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    My 99-year-old mother's Medicare monthly premiums quadrupled beginning in 2014. May voters reflect their disgust with Obamacare during the mid-term elections next year.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    You thought you had health insurance?

    "In August of 2008, Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield agreed “to pay a total of $13 million in fines and to offer new health coverage to more than 2,200 Californians the companies dropped after they became ill.” Later that same year, Health Net Inc. reached a settlement with the California Department of Insurance, agreeing “to offer new coverage to 926 customers who were dropped from individual or family policies in the years since 2004.” And in 2010, even after the Affordable Care Act was signed into law, an investigation revealed that WellPoint — the nation’s largest insurer — stretched the nation’s loose anti-rescission laws to cancel health insurance coverage for individuals when they need it most. The insurer used a computer algorithm that automatically targeted “policyholders recently diagnosed with breast cancer” and investigated them for “fraud.” To make matters worse, the company lied to prosecutors about the practice, falsely stating that it had changed its procedures for canceling the policies of patients after they become ill."

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    NBC News reported BO KNEW in 2010 his claim that people could keep their current plan was a blatant lie.

    On June 15, 2009, BO said: "We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period.”

    In 2012, he echoed that, saying, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

    More than 300,000 cancellations have been sent out in Florida, another 180,000 in California. In New Jersey, cancellations top 800,000.

    According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million Americans who buy their insurance individually should expect to receive a cancellation letter over the next year. That’s an additional 7MM to 10.5MM.

    "[Obamacare] is for people who aren’t happy with their current plan. If you like what you’re getting, keep it. Nobody is forcing you to shift." BO said.

    At least 12 million losing their plans because of Obamacare.

    BO knew it, and he knowingly lied about it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Tell us more about your new and old policy.
    If you had the bronze (lowest) plan here in CA, your out of pocket would be $5000, BUT you would have a visit for preventive care with no co-pay and pay only $60 for 3 additional visits--not subject to the out-of-pocket maximum/deductible.

    What did your old plan pay before you met the deductible?

    People need to give a more thorough explanation/comparison of old/new plans for a true comparison.

    Many individual policies are being discontinued because they simply offered few benefits.

    States are free to devise their own universal healthcare system if they don't like ACA.

  • Roger Terry Happy Valley, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:15 a.m.


    I'm sorry about the changes in your health insurance, but I think you missed my point. I never said "we'll have the same plans." I merely said I still have the same private insurance, private being the key word. And Obamacare didn't affect my health coverage at all. Perhaps you should be asking your insurance company why it has to make all these changes. But my point, which you actually reinforced, was that the ACA is not socialized medicine. You admit that you're still getting health insurance through a private insurance company. I never claimed Obamacare was perfect or that it wouldn't adversely affect some people. I was merely saying it is not socialized medicine. So, thank you for confirming that.

    Also, I never claimed that "everything is great because of [my] statistics." All I was saying is that, contrary to what right-wing alarmists claim, the sky is not falling. I see plenty of problems, but I try to be informed about what's really going on.

    Thanks too for mislabeling me a liberal. It's so easy to label others, especially when you don't have a complete picture of their views.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 6:27 a.m.

    My plan didn't change in the least, it's still the same as it was last year.

  • Melanna Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 29, 2013 4:38 a.m.

    Your plan no longer exists, but it is going to cost you more. How can something that doesn't exist have a cost?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 12:23 a.m.

    You can't afford to get sick because we got hosed with the ACA. We should have gotten a single payer health care system; it's that simple. As long as you have so called 'insurance', you've never been able to afford to get sick. The problem for you, and everyone else in the nation, is that you will get sick. You're a frail, living being that will get sick. If you don't think that's a factor in our current health care situation, tell your car insurance company that you are planning to write your vehicle off soon. We're mortal humans. We need care, not insurance, and one of the greatest acts of charity we can provide is to care for each other.