@ pragmatist Why on earth would you, in all your genius, ever
think my moral is going to match up with your moral? Why do you lay out a 100K
scenario? Why not 1 million? Does that make a difference to you? is 100K a moral
procedure that requires coverage, but 1 mill is a limit that goes beyond your
morality requirements? ....or do you have an unlimited price on moral welfare
requirements? Referring again to your question above: what makes you
think the patient receiving free insurance, because he couldn't afford it
pre obamacare, is more likely to pay the 10K then the 100K. I say he is going to
pay neither. He is just as likely to claim bankruptcy from the smaller amount as
he is the larger amount, so what have you really solved? Either way we get stuck
with the whole amount, because it really comes down to a pool of free handout
public money. Going back to your morality, I say life isn't fair.
Some are going to die when other live. Even with your precious obamacare, there
will still be injustices involved. You've solved NOTHING!
So HaHa.. now they're left with 10 grand in out of pocket rather than the
whole 100,000. Or do you recommend that they just blow off the whole "got
my foot in the door" and stick you with the entire 100 grand? Either you think everyone should have access to health care, and everyone
should pay for that access or you think, only those who can afford access should
have that access, or you think everyone should have access and only some should
pay (I'm leaving out everyone should pay and some should have access). You
choose. Once you choose then tell me how you are going to do it and why
Very nice Forrest limiting my free speech, doesn't change
the color of your nose! Yeah we get it your part of the 47% or your friend is or
your kid is, just waiting around for all the free stuff santa barry is going to
bring you. That is the only side of the equation you look at. Covering the cost
of theft makes me spend $1000 more at the grocery store every year. The
government subsidizing my 47% neighbor's rent down the street, makes my
rent $2000 every year so what is your point? The difference is private market
decision, and public FORCED purchasing. Your a big government guy, thinking its
their job to make life fair. I would love to bet you on your ER
scenario. I will lay odds that your precious obamacare will not change the ER
situation one bit. Going to be funny watching all those who couldn't afford
insurance before, get left with 10 grand of "out of pocket" healthcare
expenses, just because the have insurance now, and got their "foot in the
"According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million
Americans who buy their insurance individually should expect to receive a
cancellation letter over the next year." Oh boy we caught BO in
a lie. Simple minds looking for simple solutions..or simple talking points. The projection comes from the grandfathering clause of the law. If you
had individual purchased insurance in 2010 your plan was exempt from many of the
ACA requirements going forward. However..because the individual policy market
has a high turnover rate in both participants and plan details, many of the new
individual plans don't meet ACA standards and will have to change. So, the ACA is not "causing/forcing" the 14 million people who
had individual policies in 2010 to lose their policies. If however you have
changed our policy or have entered that market since 2010 (knowing full well the
consequences) your policy will have to comply.
Lost in DC said: "If I'm happy with my Chevy Aveo, why should I be
forced to buy an Impala. yeah, the Impala is bigger, nicer, more comfortable
(costs more to buy and operate), but I was happy with the Aveo. BO said I could
keep the Aveo. Turns out he lied and you area saying - yeah, but you get an
Impala instead. I didn't want the cost of the Impala, I was happy with the
Aveo."Yes, you are getting the Impala, and paying the cost of a
Sal is confused. Her 99 year old mother is not paying premiums for Medicare. She
might be paying premiums for the Advantage plan that's a stop gap, but she
should be able to shop for better terms -- especially if she's 99!
@SalYou aren't telling the whole story. Part B(outpatient) premiums
didn't change at all, Most don't pay a premium for Part A, but if they
do it didn't change. Her Part D plan could have changed, as prescription
drug coverage is administered by private insurance and the program doesn't
include premium controls. The other thing that could be happening is if she is
on a Medicare Advantage, which is a hybrid between Medicare and private
insurance. But again those rates are all determined by the private insurance, as
the government just pays them to run the Medicare program for however many
Medicare members they have enrolled on their program. And if you don't like
Part D or Medicare Advantage send a letter to George Bush, as both programs
started on his watch.
T-seeker,irrelevent.BO said, "If you like your healthcare
plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."If
I'm happy with my Chevy Aveo, why should I be forced to buy an Impala.
yeah, the Impala is bigger, nicer, more comfortable (costs more to buy and
operate), but I was happy with the Aveo. BO said I could keep the Aveo. Turns
out he lied and you area saying - yeah, but you get an Impala instead. I
didn't want the cost of the Impala, I was happy with the Aveo.Axelrod said on MSNBC that "most people are going to keep their own
plan." When asked about Axelrod's admission of "most" as
opposed to all, Carney acknowledge that some individual's plans will be
canceled.Even uber-liberal MNSBC called the misadministration
out.What BO said back in 2009 was "[Obamacare] is for people who
aren't happy with their current plan. If you like what you're getting,
keep it. Nobody is forcing you to shift."Turns our folks ARE
being forced to shift. I'm perplexed. You say you seek truth, yet defend
what even MSNBC determined was untrue.
HaHaHaHa.You are absolutely correct. “One man being forced to
pay for another man's healthcare is a form of socialized medicine”.
Only it’s not just a form of Socialized medicine, it is socialized
medicine. Whenever the members of a society agree to share the cost
of their needs, they are being socialistic. All of the activities of our
government are socialistic. In every case we pay a share (taxes) and receive
our share of protection, enablement and services from the common pool of effort.
Private insurance is Socialistic. Members of the group pay into
the pool and receive benefits from the pool according to their need. The main difference between government and private insurance is that the
larger the group, the greater the benefits created by its synergy. Being a member of a socialistic group does not prevent the individual from
buying into private sources of benefits. The county has a socialized
residential trash service. If you have something that doesn’t meet the
standards of residential trash you can take it to the dump yourself. If you want medical service outside the socialized set, you can buy it your
HaHa,"One man being forced to pay for another man's
healthcare is a form of socialized medicine." By credible estimates, I pay
$1000 per year in excess premiums to cover the expensive care of those who have
no other recourse than to go to the emergency room. By your definition, this is
socialized medicine. Hardly. It is health care by chaos and callousness. No
other civilized country would put up with such a primitive and inhumane system.
Only here in America where we have declared that health care is a privilege for
the privileged, not a right. We are like the mother who saw her son marching by
in a parade and was heard to exclaim, "Why look, everyone is out of step
except my Johnny!" And DesNews, I would invite you to remove the
comment I am responding to because of the extremely crude (excremental) insult
in the first line. Please look up "brownnose" in your dictionary.
Ultra Bob - second try. Suspect the Deseret News mods don't like positive
stories about the ACA. My son is now able to have potential life-saving surgery
for a pre-existing condition instead of bankruptcy or a lifetime of indentured
servitude. if my premiums (or yours) go up to cover deserving young aduts like
him, so be it. Those are the true costs of providing care in America for those
who deserve it.
re:DanielLeifker"Because of the requirements of the new laws, we can
no longer offer your current individual health benefit plan"No
details about coverage, deductibles etc. of your old plan? How will it compare
to your new plan? "The individual health insurance plans being
cancelled this fall are generally being discontinued because they do not meet
new ACA standards for insurance. The law requires that plans cover a package of
what the federal government defines as “essential health benefits.”
These include basic categories of care, including hospitalization, emergency
care, maternity services, mental health services and prescription drugs. Many
plans sold on the open market offered coverage so skimpy that it did not protect
consumers from financial ruin."(Time)
From the letter I received from my medical insurance provider, which terminated
my policy and will replace it on Jan 1 with a plan that is 75% higher:"Because of the requirements of the new laws, we can no longer offer your
current individual health benefit plan and you will need to change to an
ACA-compliant health benefit plan, which will become effective January 1,
2014."I show this letter to my liberal friends (I am a
libertarian) and they seem to be in utter denial. They claim that ObamaCare
isn't the cause of all these policies being terminated, but when I reread
my letter to them they simply claim that ObamaCare is "improving" my
policy so greedy insurance companies can't make obscene profits.I liked my original plan. President Obama said I could keep it no matter
what. I can't.
In the war on Obama, his enemies show no quarter. And like the cable news, any
hint of being fair and balanced is grossly untrue. Every day in my
limited access to the world, I am deluged by reports of failure of President
Obama and our national government. I seldom see any hint of praise or
acceptance. The reports of losing the “insurance you
have” are the only ones we see or hear. If there is someone out there who
kept their insurance, please write a letter and tell somebody.
According to the Democrat party and main stream media you don't exist. Yes
the tiny fraction of people who have seen their rates sky rocket is too small to
measure...at least that is what Jay Carney and his boss want you to believe.
This happy little land they have created ....just doesn't exist but
don't tell Barack that because he doesn't want to hear it.
Re:SalAgain, no details. Update on Center Anti-Fraud
EffortsThe Affordable Care Act has enabled the Centers for Medicare and
Medicaid Services to expand efforts to prevent and fight fraud, waste and
abuse.Over the last four years, the Obama administration has recovered
over $14.9 billion in healthcare fraud judgments, settlements, and
administrative impositions, including record recoveries in 2011 and 2012.Since the Affordable Care Act, CMS has revoked 14,663 providers and
suppliers’ ability to bill in the Medicare program since March 2011.
These providers were removed from the program because they had felony
convictions, were not operational at the address CMS had on file, or were not in
compliance with CMS rules.
My 99-year-old mother's Medicare monthly premiums quadrupled beginning in
2014. May voters reflect their disgust with Obamacare during the mid-term
elections next year.
You thought you had health insurance?"In August of 2008, Anthem
Blue Cross and Blue Shield agreed “to pay a total of $13 million in fines
and to offer new health coverage to more than 2,200 Californians the companies
dropped after they became ill.” Later that same year, Health Net Inc.
reached a settlement with the California Department of Insurance, agreeing
“to offer new coverage to 926 customers who were dropped from individual
or family policies in the years since 2004.” And in 2010, even after the
Affordable Care Act was signed into law, an investigation revealed that
WellPoint — the nation’s largest insurer — stretched the
nation’s loose anti-rescission laws to cancel health insurance coverage
for individuals when they need it most. The insurer used a computer algorithm
that automatically targeted “policyholders recently diagnosed with breast
cancer” and investigated them for “fraud.” To make matters
worse, the company lied to prosecutors about the practice, falsely stating that
it had changed its procedures for canceling the policies of patients after they
NBC News reported BO KNEW in 2010 his claim that people could keep their current
plan was a blatant lie.On June 15, 2009, BO said: "We will keep
this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able
to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able
to keep your healthcare plan. Period.”In 2012, he echoed that,
saying, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health
insurance.”More than 300,000 cancellations have been sent out
in Florida, another 180,000 in California. In New Jersey, cancellations top
800,000.According to NBC News, approximately 50 to 75 percent of the
14 million Americans who buy their insurance individually should expect to
receive a cancellation letter over the next year. That’s an additional
7MM to 10.5MM."[Obamacare] is for people who aren’t happy
with their current plan. If you like what you’re getting, keep it. Nobody
is forcing you to shift." BO said.At least 12 million losing
their plans because of Obamacare.BO knew it, and he knowingly lied
HowardTell us more about your new and old policy.If you had the
bronze (lowest) plan here in CA, your out of pocket would be $5000, BUT you
would have a visit for preventive care with no co-pay and pay only $60 for 3
additional visits--not subject to the out-of-pocket maximum/deductible. What did your old plan pay before you met the deductible? People need to give a more thorough explanation/comparison of old/new plans
for a true comparison. Many individual policies are being
discontinued because they simply offered few benefits.States are
free to devise their own universal healthcare system if they don't like
Howard,I'm sorry about the changes in your health insurance,
but I think you missed my point. I never said "we'll have the same
plans." I merely said I still have the same private insurance, private being
the key word. And Obamacare didn't affect my health coverage at all.
Perhaps you should be asking your insurance company why it has to make all these
changes. But my point, which you actually reinforced, was that the ACA is not
socialized medicine. You admit that you're still getting health insurance
through a private insurance company. I never claimed Obamacare was perfect or
that it wouldn't adversely affect some people. I was merely saying it is
not socialized medicine. So, thank you for confirming that.Also, I
never claimed that "everything is great because of [my] statistics."
All I was saying is that, contrary to what right-wing alarmists claim, the sky
is not falling. I see plenty of problems, but I try to be informed about
what's really going on.Thanks too for mislabeling me a liberal.
It's so easy to label others, especially when you don't have a
complete picture of their views.
My plan didn't change in the least, it's still the same as it was last
Your plan no longer exists, but it is going to cost you more. How can something
that doesn't exist have a cost?
You can't afford to get sick because we got hosed with the ACA. We should
have gotten a single payer health care system; it's that simple. As long as
you have so called 'insurance', you've never been able to afford
to get sick. The problem for you, and everyone else in the nation, is that you
will get sick. You're a frail, living being that will get sick. If you
don't think that's a factor in our current health care situation, tell
your car insurance company that you are planning to write your vehicle off soon.
We're mortal humans. We need care, not insurance, and one of the greatest
acts of charity we can provide is to care for each other.