Utah Jazz: Jazz, Gordon Hayward working on deal but reportedly remain 'far apart'

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  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:35 p.m.

    Everyone is jumping the gun on this loyalty stuff, wait until the deadline is over. By the way I didn't hear much about lack of loyalty when Paul Milsap accepted a front loaded contract with Portland which was totally designed to keep the Jazz from being able to match.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 6:18 p.m.

    Ladies and gents, I have read my comments and your opposing views and I do feel many of you do make a stronger argument that I do about Haywards deal. I think it is too much in this day and age to expect players to be loyal to a team, and especially a small market team when other teams can offer more incentives. I guess Stockton and Malone spoiled me by making me think great players will stay with the team that drafted them if you treat them fairly. ( I know Malone left his last year but his playing days were really over and with Stockton retiring I didn't blame Karl for going to Hollywood for his last year). Anyway, kudos to you all and I hope the best for the Jazz and Hayward what ever direction they go. As far as who should be loyal to the Jazz, I'll remain loyal to them thick or thin but unfortunately I can't dunk the ball or hit a high percentage from the arc.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:13 p.m.

    To be honest...the only thing that makes Hayward valuable...is that...there is a scarcity in SG/SF position in the league...that plays both ends of the floor...i am pretty sure a few GMs are lining up...for the possibility of acquiring Hayward...who'll i think we'll be a good 2nd or third option on a team with a legit scoring star...but i don't think Hayward is involved with the negotiations...and he let his Agent do the talking...which is technically fine...because that's what an agent is supposed to do....but...he should have reached out to his agent and said...look...i want to be in this team...and whatever they offer....i'll take it...anyways...if we don't get him...and we land the Number 1 or 2 pick on the draft...i don't think it'll be an issue...we would get either Wiggins or Parker...Burks would be the starting 2....

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    I dont think its fair to Hayward....that he is at fault here...i think its his agent that wanted the bigger deal....this is why i dont really like sports agents....they feed useless things inside their players heads...

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    A losing culture also means articles published with relatively few post on the message boards. If you use the message boards as a metric, Jazz fans are much more excited about Fredette's activity in Sacramento and Davies in Philadelphia than they are about the home team. Routinely I see Jazz articles with half a dozen or fewer comments while these spurious NBA articles about home town heroes have dozens of comments.

    That, my friends, is an indication of a losing culture.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    ThomasJefferson: You don't get it, do you. Why do you think LeBron left Cleveland? Because he wasn't doing his job ? Because he wasn't trying as hard as he could to win a championship? Or was it because he could see that Cleveland was not committed to winning a championship? Same is true for Chris Paul and many other free agents.

    Money (including endorsement opportunities) is almost always the first consideration. But when they have two fairly balanced offers between a team with a winning tradition vs a team with a losing tradition, they will go with the winners almost every time.

    Sure, there are some secondary considerations such as:
    - Playing time (who already plays their position on those teams)
    - Location
    - Arena or travel conditions
    - etc

    But the chance to win is second to money in almost every case.

    Please tell me you recognize that and were just being facetious in your comments.

  • kswiss Norman, OK
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    The Spurs find guys with Hayward's skill set at a fraction of the price he is searching for. Danny Green is not a franchise guy but is a "D" and "3" guy. He makes $4 million/year. Perfect complimentary piece type of player that is needed on a championship team. Which I think Hayward would be. If we got one of the studs coming out of the upcoming draft as the franchise guy, and then had Favors and Hayward locked up long term at reasonable prices the Jazz could make some major noise.

  • Jazz Source Alpine, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    All this talk of loyalty is silliness. It just really doesn't exist anymore in todays NBA.

    These players have a relative short window to earn a lifetime of income and regardless of where we all are in life not to many of us walk away from money that you can get if you are doing the same work either way.

    Stop acting like the NBA is some liberal utopian fantasy. These guys are here to earn all they can while they can because most of them are done in their mid-to late 30's.

    It is pure naivete' to ask Hayward to take less than the market is willing to pay him. There is little doubt given the obscene money that similar type players are getting/already have gotten that he won't get a deal either from us/another team that people deem too much. The market dictates.

    I would not be surprised to see the Jazz wait to see what free agency offers he gets.

    Hayward is NOT going to put up obscene stats this year. He is going to struggle because this team is inexperienced and bad.

    Try and sell that for a "max" deal Hayward.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:51 a.m.


    "I still ask, where is Hayward's loyalty to the team that drafted him?"

    Let me ask, are you still working for the same organization that gave you your first job? If not, then where is your loyalty to the team that drafted you?

    Bottom line is we all move on. And if the Jazz don't want Hayward to move on, they're going to have to overpay him. That's what happens when you have the league's worst ownership, worst fans, and you're in a city/state NBA players don't want to live in.

  • Jazz Source Alpine, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:35 a.m.


    What player are you watching? Haywards defense is better than most. Do you realize his block % is just minimally below LeBron James statistically? His chase down blocks from behind are a thing of beauty. Offensively IS where he lacks. I don't believe he will be the guy who can carry "the load" every night. He is however a very good well-rounded player who will get big money.

    All that being said everyone needs to remember. The NBA is filled with bad GMs who constantly overpay for players and the market is not necessarily what a player is worth but rather what some fool will pay and there are always a few willing to ruin the scale and overpay.

    Ultimately that makes Hayward likely to get more than he is truly worth. Whether the Jazz can successfully manage that down to a livable amount remains to be seen.

    Hayward has no swagger or a superstars confidence. He will never be "the guy". He is a 2nd/3rd player option you would love to have however he is not Paul George but his agents job is to extract every dime he can.


  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Americanvet: There is a world of difference between "not being able to guarantee a player will win a title" and "guaranteeing he won't win a title." I really hope you can see that. I agree that nobody can guarantee a player can win a title but there are a lot of teams that can guarantee that their players will not win a title. And there are a handful that can guarantee their teams won't make the playoffs. Bobcats are one of those. This year the Jazz are one of those.

    That "losing culture" is insidious. A team can fool itself into thinking it is rebuilding and then five years down the road discover that good players, if they can get them through the draft or trade, will find a way out as soon as possible. At that point, it is almost impossible to pull yourself out of the hole you dug yourself into.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    "why should Hayward be loyal to a team that guarantees he won't win a title". That's ridiculous. No team can guarantee a player that they will win a title and the fact is most players in the league play their whole career without ever being on a team that wins a title. You say the Jazz should be loyal to Hayward by trying to field a competitive team and that is exactly what they are trying to do. It is hard to build a competitive team however when the young players you're trying to build around are holding you for ransom and demanding more than they are worth. If Hayward would except a reasonable salary, and were talking about millions of dollars a year, that would leave the Jazz the flexibility to add the players to build a competitive team. Plus, the Jazz took Hayward 9th in the draft which was higher than he was expected to go. That rewarded him a bigger salary right from his rookie year because the Jazz were willing to take a chance on him. I still ask, where is Hayward's loyalty to the team that drafted him?

  • klepsydra Longmont, CO
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    First Paul George is over-payed. He shouldn't have gotten that much money, and Hayward should not either. I highly doubt that the negotiations are that far apart however. From looking at other contracts around the league, Hayward is clearly worth around $12M per year, $14M is too much. The $7-9 that fans are hoping for is just not going to happen. Hayward is already better than that and there is a huge market for him.

    Harden $13.7 (a bargain)
    Josh Smith $13.5
    Ben Gordon $13.2
    Andre Igoudala $12.8
    Hedo Turkoglu $12
    Nicolas Batum $11.2
    Richard Jefferson $11
    Danilo Gallinari $10
    Geral Wallace $10
    Stephan Jackson $10
    DeMar DeRozan $9.5

  • JP Chandler, AZ
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    He hasn't been doing as well in the Starcraft tourneys of late.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    So it seems my worst projections are already starting to prove themselves. The Jazz are locking themselves into Clipper and Bobcat mode, perpetually building but never getting there. They're well on their way of establishing a losing culture. And who wants to play for a team with a losing culture? Nobody.

    I laugh at the comments about Hayward's loyalty. Why should he be loyal to a team that guarantees he won't win a title and virtually guarantees he won't make the playoffs? Who wants to get beat 50-60 nights a year? Maybe if the Jazz were loyal to Hayward by fielding a competitive team, Hayward would return that loyalty.

    Several times during the summer, I offered to bet $1000 that the Jazz would not appear in the NBA finals while Hayward and Favors were still on the team. And this was one of my primary arguments. Losing culture does not retain good players. By the way, nobody was willing to accept my bet, even the most outspoken in support of the Jazz' current direction.

    BTW, those saying not to pay Hayward eight figures know very little about basketball.

  • Cougar11 Highland, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    I love this kids game. I also think he is a solid team-mate, good club-house guy etc. However, you can't pay him more than Favors. Favors will be more valuable to our success and deserved the risk taken by management. Haywood is not as good as George and even if he is and an argument can be made that he is, why should the Jazz make the same mistake as Indiana and drastically overpay? We got ourselves in trouble worrying about matching offers and losing above average players during the last 8 years. We need financial flexbility to build a champtionship caliber team in a small market like SLC. Let's build inside out and if Hayward is going to be part of it then he needs to do it at $10M or less a season. If not, send him to Boston now and let's get some draft picks and a player or two. My goodness kid, how much money does a single guy need? You have a while before you pull the "I need to feed my family" card.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    Are we going to see a new Toyota dealership show up on Auto Mall Road? Comer get your next Tundra at Gordon Hayward Toyota! You'll find us right next to Karl Malone Toyota and a block away from Stoctkton Honda in Sandy.

  • USNGary San Diego, CA
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    He lost too many games last year with late game turnovers. NOT worth the money. Let him play the season and then make an offer.

  • gehelmke Bastrop, TX
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    Interesting comments here....Here are a fews comments on the comments:

    There's a lot more to the game of basketball than making shots; and though Hayward makes his share, his areas of expertise are passing, running the floor, and defense.

    If the Jazz choose to let this negotiation go to restricted free agency, they can kiss Hayward goodbye, because they'll never match the offers the kid will get.

    Finally, and most important....Hayward isn't negotiating anything. He's just playing basketball...He has an agent like all the pros have. The agent determines what he thinks the player is worth, and he is the one who negotiates....There's is no place here for questions like "how much does Hayward think he is worth>"

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    I generally agree with the comments above. However, my concern about Hayward is not on the offensive end of the court. While one can question his ability to penetrate the lane and his consistency in shooting, I think the biggest liability for Hayward is his defensive game. He offers virtually nothing in stopping larger players (which in this league there are a lot of them) and isn't really fast enough to be a perimeter defender. Hayward gets a lot of hustle point to his credit, but there are too many players in this league that are bigger and quicker for him to receive and "elite" contract. I would be generous and give him $30 million but a contract above Favors who is an elite athlete would be asking way too much for his skill set. Another scenario that could play out is for the Jazz to receive a top five draft pick this season and pick a small forward that could more than make up anything we lose with having Hayward leave. He also provides us with some high quality trade options as well.

  • Hugh G. Hater Swat Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    Let him go. He has shown us that he is NOT worth big money.

  • barakoboi Layton, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    He is a good player but he is not going to blossom as a superstar! he's playing for the wrong coach. Too bad Paul George blossom into a superstar ahead of Hayward.

  • scodyshootfight KC, MO
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:59 a.m.

    Come on Lindsey, PLEASE don't pay this kid. I agree that he should not get more than 7-9 million. Teams are bad when they sign these average and inconsistent players to huge deals when they've never proved they can put a team on their back and lead them into the post season.

  • fortydam OREM, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    You guys are right on! Unless Hayward can prove he can hit the mid jumper that he's missed for two seasons, he isn't worth what he thinks. I thought this guy was different.

  • goforit Provo, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:14 a.m.

    I am sure he is looking for the same deal as Indiana gave George. He isn't close to being a max player. I'm sure he would want to be in Boston with his college coach. Trade him and let Boston overpay.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 12:09 a.m.

    If the Jazz are offering Hayward more than Favors deal as reported, and yet they are still far apart, how much does Hayward think he is worth? He is good but I thought he was more the simple country boy type and here he is acting like a selfish rock star. Show a little loyalty Hayward and work with the Jazz to get this deal done. It's frustrating to see these NBA players hold their teams for ransom, and especially the small market teams because everyone wants to play in the big city. Kirilenko left a ton of money sitting on the table to play for the Nets this year so he could play in the bright lights and try to win a championship for himself. Meanwhile Minnesota now has a more difficult time building their team because an important piece wanted to play in a big market. It's just frustrating, and I hoped Hayward had a little more class than that.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Oct. 27, 2013 10:02 p.m.

    hmmmm....now that i think of it...i would've offered a 5-7M range...9M is too much....

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Oct. 27, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    I like Hayward's game a lot...it doesnt scream superstar...but being pesky on D...being able to shoot and pass and making teammates involve...not being a me first player...is good...However....i won't pay him huge bucks...7-9M range should do....why? he hasn't been as efficient during the pre-season...plus a number of teams would probably look to overpay him...so if the Jazz waited for free agency...im not sure they'll be able to match...the guy right now is a solid 2nd or 3rd option...this year is his year to prove that he can be an all-star and that's a lot of pressure...and i think during the pre-season...he tried to do a little too much...instead of letting the game come to him...if the Jazz signed him...great...if not...there's always wiggins and/or Jabari Parker...and Alec burks could move up to number 2...and i have this weird feeling...that Neto would eventually be better than Trey Burke...