Timothy R. Clark: The outfoxed Republican Party

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  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 6:54 p.m.

    Put Harry in charge of the chickens and eggs. He will not fall for the tea party fox in the middle of the night through the back door.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    "Again, never mind that Obamacare curbs self-reliance, personal accountability..." It does neither unless it is possible to live without health insurance. Self reliance alone will not get you care for a chronic health condition, nor will self reliance get you care if you have a preexisting condition.

    Clark is inline with the LDS mindset which blames the individual for everything and lets business off Scott free

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    It is truly amazing to read from those who believe that you are unpatriotic, extremist, or want the fall of mankind if you don't close your eyes and support whoever is in power, whether Bush, Hitler, or Obama! I'm sure that these are the very same people who refer to members of their church as being sheep because they blindly follow their prophet. None the less, I will fight Barack Obama or any other leader with whom I disagree with to the very last and defend any other person the same right. Do I fear a national default? No! Am I an anarchist? No! I believe in God, not government. Does that mean I don't believe in National defense,or highways, or police protection? No! Can't label me can ya? Independent through and through! Nobody can claim me as a part of their following! I don't need any of them! Amazing. Join the liberation of independence, the independence that made our country great. The liberty that brought together the greatest thinkers and humans in the world's history. That is the kind of liberation that all should seek.

  • divotmaker21 Farmington, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Re Andy:
    Just love the mentality of some people: "I really hope the GOP gets their stuff together so I can vote for them in 2016." Let's not look at the individuals as to their beliefs & ideals, lets just push the "R" button & then blame everyone else for the problems without having a different solution. If you don't like something, come up with a better solution.

  • Daniel Leifker San Francisco, CA
    Oct. 26, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    The GOP may have the last laugh. Sen. Johnson of Wisconsin is proposing an "If You Like Your Health Plan, You Can Keep It" Act. It would protect people like me who liked their medical insurance a lot in 2013 and saw it cancelled and replaced with far more expensive plans (76% increase in my case).

    This bill will easily pass the House, and it might get past the Senate. If it does, President Obama will find himself is a rather hellish dilemma. If he signs the bill, it will dramatically weaken Obamacare because far fewer dollars will be flowing into the system to support insurance for older and sicker people. But if he vetoes it, he will look like a total hypocrite, because he emphatically repeated that people would be able to keep their plans.

    Outfoxed? In the great chessboard of politics, the GOP may have lost a queen during the government shutdown. But the game isn't over yet, and Obamacare has reduced the Democratic side to a king and a bunch of pawns.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    All I know is there is an asteroid coming. To me for warned is for armed. In preparation My Thanksgiving will be a lot different, Christmas is going to be minimal if any. I sure that stores have the same thought. For an economy the devastation is disaster-as.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    @TRUTH 8:25 a.m. Oct. 26, 2013

    In TRUTH, the RINOS in the Republican party are Lee, Cruz, Backmann, Palin, etc., etc., etc., who would rather throw a tantrum and shut down the government than find a rational way of working with REAL (moderate, mainstream) Republicans, not to mention those in the party on the other side of the aisle.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    As soon as we get rid of the likes of McCain McConnell Hatch Ryan and the other RINO's in the GOP we will be fine.......

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 26, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    "The Republicans have proposed lots of solutions."

    No they haven't. They have thrown out a tidbit here and there. A solution is an actual, comprehensive proposal that has been penned into legislation that can be scrutinized and put up for vote.

    Solutions are not , "hey, lets let insurance operate across state lines and include tort reform."

    Solutions are complex and complicated. To date, the GOP has been unwilling or unable to offer anything concrete of their own.

  • Capsaicin Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 3:27 a.m.

    Its disconcerting the number of people who suggest republicanism (and conservitism) is in somehow any way damaged by their recent actions to try to reduce spending, using a debt ceiling to do it.

    Conservatives are on top every day of the week. They have righteous time-honored virtue on their side.

    Anyone suggesting republicans are out of touch are simply trolling for clicks.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 26, 2013 1:05 a.m.

    I would rather have the ACA and stand before God saying we as a country did what we could to help the sick instead of voting for Romney who wanted additional TRILLIONS for Defense spending that the Pentagon did NOT ask for. Money we do not have either. I would rather err giving people affordable healthcare than paying for extra bombs the department of defense doesn't need or ask for.

    Funny how you conservatives are worried about spending but when Romney says he would increase defense spending beyond DOD requests, none of you bats an eye. Always money for bombs with the GOP and not enough for schools and infrastructure.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 10:03 p.m.

    Re: "Such men and women cannot be allowed to govern. When their team is losing a game they are willing to blow up the stadium."

    You're clearly talking about Congressional Democrats and the Obama regime.

    They refused to discuss, negotiate, or compromise anything but abject, unconditional surrender of the representatives of the 70% of America that opposes Obamacare, all the while braying loudly about Constitutional separation of powers they insist never applies to themselves, the out-of-control lawmaking Executive Branch, or corrupt, politicized courts.

    Shortsightedness and hubris are two of their three defining characteristics -- the third being disingenuity.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:18 p.m.

    The older (and wiser) folks in the party told the "young guns" that they had seen this movie before and that this was a bad strategy.

    But when you are SURE you are right (never anyone else - just you) and the issue your are fighting is the very apocalypse you go ahead and do it . . .

    What bothered me most was not that they were obstinate and willing to shutdown the govt., but that when economists on BOTH sides of the aisle were screaming that default would be catastrophic, they came out with cockamamie theories and justifications as to why everything would be just fine.

    In that moment, I knew they were truly dangerous. Such men and women cannot be allowed to govern. When their team is losing a game they are willing to blow up the stadium. The damage to the fans is an acceptable price (to them) if it means they don't have to lose the game.

    That is not statesmanship. It is petulance, shortsightedness, and hubris. They bray about the constitution but they seem to misunderstand the entire idea behind the separation of powers and the need for consensus that is at its heart.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    Re: "The ACA . . . an answer to prayer for families like mine who lived in fear that our children would be denied care . . . ."

    If only.

    Unless your kids qualify for Medicare, Obama's "affordable" plans will be of little help, since they're not really affordable.

    For the greater part of America, a more chilling prospect than being denied coverage is the fear of qualifying, but only at triple or quadruple the amount we're currently paying.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    Let's see. Midterms coming up. All sorts of fresh soundbite extolling the virtues of Obamacare.
    Couple that with the flaws of the ACA (sign-up problems, sticker shock, lack of coverage with the doctors YOU want...)
    By election day 2014 all this fodder will help people vote Republican.
    Those fools in the GOP.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 25, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    The outfoxed Republican Party?

    It didn't really take any talent at all to outfox a political party in such total disarray.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    I wish I could agree with the praise heaped upon the democrats for seemingly blocking the efforts of the republicans, but alas I think the real truth is simply that one group of businessmen won a temporary battle over a competing set of businessmen.

    The fact is the American people want reform to the medical care system and thinking that Obama would do that gave the democrats the go. Obviously some businessmen of this nation still infected with the attitudes and agendas of yesteryear became determined to bring failure to President Obama even at the cost of destroying America.

    My hope is that the republicans have overstepped their philosophy to the point of actually helping President Obama and the American people. And the result may be changes to our government to enhance the voting rights of people to the point where we actually have government for the people.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    One correction - the ACA forbids the use of federal funds for abortions and does not force providers to pay for them.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    Great article.

    Should be required reading for all republican/t-party/conservative leaning voters.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 25, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    ‘Timothy R. Clark: The outfoxed Republican Party’

    Oh, now I get it?
    It's a joke, a play on words
    Out-Foxed...i.e., FoxNews

    Conservatives and especially Republicans have been out Fox'ed by their own biased network.
    Like continually telling them that Mitt Romney is light-years ahead even as the polls were closing.

    Tell them what they WANT to hear for ratings,
    and ignore the facts and reality of the rest of the Universe.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    vern001: "Until Republicans start proposing solutions, I'll vote for a Democrat every time."

    The Republicans have proposed lots of solutions. Oh, I forget, the only acceptable definition of "solution" is a big government program that takes away another chunk of personal liberty and places command and control into the hands of bureaucrats who will decide what is "best" for us, the little people. It shouldn't matter if that solves the problem or even makes things better, as long as it "redistributes the wealth" it is good.

    You are right. Conservatives want no part of those kinds of solutions.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 25, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    vern001 - I'm with you 100% - as the parent of a child with a chronic disease and as citizen who thinks that healthcare as a for profit business is morally wrong. Let's pay good salaries to doctors and nurses and all the wonderfull staff that helps make your hospital stay bearable but let's stop spending our hard earned money on executives who add nothing to the process. Reducing healthcare costs by eliminating the money used for marketing, executive bonuses and for lawyers hired for no other reason than to argue for paying less to the providers can go a long way to lower costs for everyone.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    You know the old saying, "when the money runs out........

  • vern001 Castle Rock, CO
    Oct. 25, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    As the mother of a child with special needs, I am grateful for the Affordable Care Act. Enough with the discrimination against the elderly, the sick, and the disabled. The CEO of UnitedHealthcare made something like $100 million a year or so ago. Why are we putting our health in the hands of for-profit corporations? Do you truly believe they have your best interests at heart?

    The ACA is by no means perfect, but yes, it is an answer to prayer for families like mine who lived in fear that our children would be denied care because of a pre-existing condition or hit a cap.

    And most Americans realize this and are voting for Democrats because at least the Dems are trying to help us. Whereas Republicans talk abstractly about freedom and limited government and the Founding Fathers and ignore the very real challenges faced by millions of Americans every day.

    Until Republicans start proposing solutions, I'll vote for a Democrat every time.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    The Solution - You are right to say these claims have not yet had a chance to be put into place. It is the same reason that it is ludicrous to claim that Obamacare is a train wreck when it won't be fully implemented for a few months. Certainly there have been problems with the website (name a start up business that hasn't experienced that) but the intentions of the new law are as stated in those features and it is the intent of the government to enforce the law. The onoly thing we can actually prove is that our current system has none of those features and, left to themselves, would not even think about incorporating those features. If you could substantiate any of the claims you have made about deductibles and costs with actual documented evidence, then the discussion would be more meaningful.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:41 a.m.

    I pretty much agree with the article. I really hope the GOP gets their stuff together so I can vote for them in 2016. If they stopped letting themselves get hijacked by the tea party they could actually win some elections and accomplish what the tea party has not been able to.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    "Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

    Democrats knew the strategy was a mistake. Republican leadership knew it was a mistake. Played out on the national stage was infighting between Republicans and the Tea Party. Tea Party members were certain that shutting down the government was a good strategy. Republican leadership let it go forward to show them that it was not. The price seems heavy, but I think Republicans hope they can purge their ranks of some of the Tea Party members in the next election.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:30 a.m.


    It's interesting to see this "low information American" term being flashed by conservatives and Republicans, as some kind of explanation among themselves for why things don't go their way.

    Basically, "if you don't agree with us, you're either dumb, uninformed, or a lazy slave to government programs", pretty much a regurgitation of the 47% comment that sunk Romney.

    I'm not sure this is your best approach for broadening support for your cause.

    The column's author, Tim Clark, seems to see serious problems with the GOP's strategy and messaging. Presumably he's a rube, a RINO, a fool, as well? (He did go to Oxford, which is kind of like exposing our youth to the "International Baccalaureate" program in HS. You could thus dismiss him as being tainted, no longer a true American, I suppose.)

  • BrentBot Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    The only way toward salvaging our country is for all Republicans and fed-up Democrats to support Tea Party candidates like Mike Lee and Ted Cruz.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    As an ex GOPer I have to laugh at the whole spending issue. During the GW Bush years I asked "How are we paying for all this?" The GOP had no issues with GW Bush running up TRILLIONS for stimulus packages, 2 wars, bank bailouts, Medicare Part D. NONE of you spoke up on spending so your cries of too much spending are laughable.

    Both sides ran up the debt but the GOP seems to forget their part. I am glad to be an independent now that did NOT vote for Lee.

  • The Solution Dayton, OH
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    So what if an ACA propaganda site has "positive features" listed? These are unsubstantiated without any record of implementation.
    "Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases" - that a joke. It doesn't apply until after you start insurance. If you haven't had insurance already, than you haven't noticed what has happened to our insurance in the last year. Try going from $1500 deductible to cover your family to a $4000 deductible. Then after deductible most things are covered at only 60%.

    Why is it fair that people who pay nothing should get better coverage than those of us who pay?

  • The Solution Dayton, OH
    Oct. 25, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    "Today, the Affordable Care Act is a source of frustration for a few citizens trying to log on to a website, a source of concern for many who don’t know what the law really means, and yet a source of hope for most."

    Who is the "most" that get hope from this horrendus bill? There is a very small minority who get something better with their health care than they had before. The rest of us suffer with crappier, more expensive health insurance. Keep in mind MOST people do not qualify for Obamacare and are stuck with whatever their company provides or their own private insurance.

    "...the Democratic Party... is seen as the party of solutions."

    You've got to be kidding. The party that refused over 10 bills from the House to avoid government shutdown is seen as the party of solutions?

    If the rest of the republicans would have stuck to their guns, like Cruz and Lee, and called the President on his bluff with the debt ceiling, he and Reid would have had to come to the table. Instead they sold out and now look like the mascot of the party they caved to.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 8:44 a.m.

    Re: "Obama is selling security. The GOP is mocking that pitch. Who wins?"

    Well, since the Democrats are now trying to sell the same thing Ted Cruz and Mike Lee were arguing for last week, it's pretty clear the Republicans do.

    It won't take Americans -- even the low-information America liberals have created -- very long to figure out that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    And that if Obama and the Democrats are now angling for the same things the "radical" tea partiers were holding out for, someone was lying last week, and that Democrats have finally been dragged -- kicking and screaming all the way, to be sure -- to the truth.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    It's impressive when you see a clear-thinking Republican who is not in the echo chamber, the whirlpool of anger, repetitive talking points, doom and gloom, the bomb shelter mentality.

    Guess what, Republicans? Obamacare is actually *your* idea, what the GOP proposed as a market-based alternative to Hillarycare.

    The website will get fixed, and we'll start to see more & more people with stories about how ACA helped their family, or that it's not as bad as their conservative friends claim, etc. ACA will certainly need to be adjusted, altered, some fixes implemented. But just as Romneycare showed, it will basically work OK.

    The big question is whether the Republican party will be able to come up with coherent alternatives, besides just gutting ACA and letting children with pre-existing conditions go without.

    I work with a guy who lives in the echo chamber. He's convinced we'll have a full blown civil war, an insurrection in the US, by the end of this year - at least that was his story in the summer.

    The pragmatic middle will see a lot of Republicans as irrational hotheads, with no constructive ideas.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Oct. 25, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    As a FORMER Republican,
    [as MOST of the 46% of Americans who are also UN-affiliated at the moment]
    I couldn't agree more with this article...

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    It is no wonder that the Libertarian party, Independents, and Tea Party represent such a vast part of the electorate. Defending the Republican or Democratic brand name is equivalent to neutralizing our constitution, limited government, and moral values. Those parties have led us to the precipice without even acknowledging any responsibility or guilt for their appeasement and corrupt behavior. I love Timothy Clark's articles. This is the first one that left me empty. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, for whatever there motivations and future standing, have been heroic. Barring their stance and efforts, the Democratic and Republican parties would have colluded again, and again, and again to give us more of what hasn't worked. Anyone that supports the Democratic and Republican parties, without thinking about where to take an individual stand, is weak, naive, and ultimately part of the problem. I can't support ya on this one Tim, but everything else I've read has been awesome. Keep it up!

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 6:55 a.m.

    Don't agree with any of your conclusions, but you are a good spinning Democrat. One word of political advice to you. Americans have no memory. Next year less than 10% of the people will even remember the so called shut down. People will vote on how they feel 2 weeks out from the election. If they are reeling over high medical costs, that will be the big issue.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 25, 2013 6:24 a.m.

    This is an excellent observation on the current situation. And as much as I agree with the premise of this essay, there are a few statements I would like to challenge. For weeks and months we have heard of the “devastation” suffered by American families because of the Affordable Care Act. This essay further promotes that idea with statements like "Obamacare is bad law" or "Obamacare curbs self-reliance, personal accountability" without offering any constructive examples to validate those claims. On the other hand, several website, including the AARP website, claim the opposite with lists of positive features such as:

    •Creates the Health Insurance Marketplace, a new way for individuals, families, and small businesses to get health coverage
    •Requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing health conditions
    •Holds insurance companies accountable for rate increases
    •Makes it illegal for health insurance companies to Protects your choice of doctors
    •Covers young adults under 26
    •Provides free preventive care (in this case “free” means there is no co-pay or deductable)
    •Ends lifetime and yearly dollar limits

    So, do the detractors have a similarly comprehensive list of negative features?

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Oct. 25, 2013 6:02 a.m.

    The GOP has become a loose cannon and a threat to economic stability. With the looming showdown over the budget after the first of the year, I'd expect businesses to again hunker down, not invest in anything, not hire anyone, stuff money into mattresses, and simply wait out and attempt to endure the next GOP-initiated crisis for businesses and the economy.

    If ObamaCare is such a disaster, let it falter on its own.

    The GOP needs its own "signature" legislation that contributes to the betterment of America... sadly, the GOP is creating too much risk, instability, and uncertainty going forward. Sad...

  • sailhardy BOSTON, MA
    Oct. 25, 2013 6:01 a.m.

    Democrats are the party of solutions? Watching the implementation of Obamacare makes that statement impossible to believe. The bill as written is an attack on the working poor since it will force any full-time working poor to part-time status; it will throw millions of Americans out of their current health insurance plans; it will force many to change physicians; it will leave many without physicians; it will help some, but only those groups favoured by Obama and his Progressives. They will try to blame Republicans for this, but there are no Republican fingerprints on this bill. I do believe the law will be implemented because the President believes he can talk his way out of its shortcomings. Prepare to listen as he will be constantly talking, talking, talking. Unhappily, he will succeed because we are not a smart people, HIs re-election is proof of that.

  • bamball Mesa, AZ
    Oct. 25, 2013 4:07 a.m.

    Mr. Clark:
    Seems like this opinion piece only digs up the same old GOP talking points. The GOP strategy can never change if you continue to rely on the same talking points, without reconsidering a least a few things, which you appear to not want to do. Are you falling back on the same scapegoats and mythical conservative beliefs to make your point? Any new ideas or strategies proposed?

    Also, did you ever, once, during the Bush years, pull out that George Washington quote, and say out loud: "Stop with the spending!?" Our current debt issue, which frames a portion of your arguments against ACA and Democrats--is it seriously all President Obama's fault? As a nation, we seem to collectively forget what happened about 4 or 5 years ago, and why.

  • KellyWSmith Sparks, NV
    Oct. 25, 2013 12:35 a.m.

    Last week the Republicans were excoriated for trying to delay Obamacare. Now that its disastrous opening shows its true colors, some Democrats are hailed for wanting to wait for its launch. This whole issue of saying the Republicans, mainly the "Tea Party" has ruined their future, is mistaken. I now see 2 great leaders in that future in Ted Cruz and Mike Lee and you people in Utah don't support them. We now have 2 people who will stand up to the Establishment Republicans and demand that we do something! Instead, what do we have to show for trying to solve the problems we face? Nothing. It has all just been kicked down the road to another confrontation in some future day.

    You claim to be fiscally conservative, yet you have done nothing to solve the problem and in essence, are part of the problem. Are Mike Lee and Ted Cruz the only people willing to stand up and change the future of the tsunami heading our way? If they are not supported, we will have nothing to live for in the very near future.

    Pardon me while I go recheck my food storage supply. We're gonna need it.