Dick Harmon: Which team in the state is the best? Utes have bragging rights

After only five weeks, however, head to head still rules

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    Oct. 15, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    Stanford < Texas
    4Quarters with Chuckie Keeton < 3.5 Quarters of Craig Harrison

    End of story...

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2013 10:20 p.m.

    Layton, Utah

    Utah 27 Stanford 21. Guess you were wrong on that one.

    We all know who the best team and the best football program in the State of Utah is Mr. Harmon.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    0-2 in the Pac haha soon to be 0-3, have fun thumping your chest all season about a 7 point win against Byu

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 11, 2013 5:33 p.m.


    The fact that PAC12 Officials have Officiated the past 3 games between the Cougs and the utes may not mean anything to you but it speaks volumes to others...

    Wisconsin was a team that was badly hurt by that fact in the ASU vs Wisconsin.... It wasn't ASU...

    In the BYU-utah game, how many TDs did utah score that were called back? Thank you... The lack of a pass intererence call on the last play of the game (a play that anyone familiar with American Football at any level would have called) was another devastating blow to the Cougs and a non-PAC opponent...

    PAC refs have a bad reputation when it comes to calling games in which a PAC team plays a non-PAC team... Plain and simple... In fact, I have no idea why Leagues with some clout (i.e. the Big 10, the SEC, the ACC, and the Big 12)refuse to play PAC teams if PAC officials are going to call them... They are horrible.

    I know that the utes thought that there were a couple of bad calls that went against them, but none ended up costing them points.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 11, 2013 1:37 p.m.


    "No, 8-5 BYU is not better than 5-7 Utah"

    Despite your irrelevant, cherry-picking spin, according to Sagarin, BYU was not only better, BYU was MUCH better than Utah.

    #26 BYU(8-5, #63 SOS) > #61 Utah(5-7, #41 SOS)

    BYU beat a Top 25 team, #16/#17 Utah State in 2012; who did U beat?

    BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams, and lost to three of them by a total of 10 points.

    Utah only played TWO Top 25 teams, and lost to both.

    And let's not forget, Utah barely beat 1-11 Colorado in Utah's season finale.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Oct. 11, 2013 12:37 p.m.


    The only thing laughable is Utah fans denying reality and pretending that the same "body of work" logic that applied to Alabama and Texas A&M, also applies to BYU and Utah.

    Utah has won the individual game bragging rights lately, but BYU, based on the overall "body of work" was the better team in five of the last eight seasons, and is currently leading this season.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 11, 2013 12:18 p.m.


    Yes, 12-2 NI is better than 4-8 Iowa by plus 8.

    No, 8-5 BYU is not better than 5-7 Utah considering a plus 3 BYU has FOUR build in wins Weber State, Idaho, New Mexicos State, and Hawaii. Utah would easly be 8-5 with your schedule, advantage head-to-head.

    Bronco has a losing record playing one-off BCS games, playing a similar schdeule both Kyle and Patterson (TCU) dominated BCS teams. Now both are struggling each week. No one would argue that Bronco would do better than Kyle in the PAC 12 or Patterson in the Big 12.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    @True blue..."So, last year Texas A&M beat Alabama which gave A&M bragging rights and therefore was a better team. What an ignorant standpoint, however that is the logic of the Ute fans. Reality is that because of Alabama's complete body of work in 2012, it was ranked #1."

    It's laughable the cougie fan's trying to use this argument. Yes cougie fan's a one off win here and there by a lesser team will happen. However tell me the last time Texas A&M beat bama 4 in a row 9 of 12? Whens the last time UNLV beat utah 4 in row 9 of 12? Obviously fluke wins happen but what Utah has proven is consistency in being better than the Y on the field where it matters. The only one off wins lately in this series is a couple wins by the Y getting lucky on 4th and 19 and hartline getting lost in coverage.

    If not for those two lucky wins it would be 11 of 12

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 11:09 a.m.


    You are correct. My comment was intended for an earlier post claiming the "PAC-12 refs" gave us the game versus Utah State. That was the game officiated by the Big XII crew.

    That being said, you need to realize that the Utes were penalized more in the game than YbU, so that argument is pointless.

    The bottom line is that both teams had questionable calls go both for and against them. That's been the nature of sports from the beginning. It all shakes out in the end. Which is why the Utes are 4-0, and counting!

    Go Utes!

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 11, 2013 7:15 a.m.


    Utah, a national brand? LOL!

    The Utes are nothing more than a commuter school that is barely recognized as a member of the PAC by the other members.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 11, 2013 12:32 a.m.

    samarai jake... once again you are inaccurate and I believe you are not being truthful because you don't think that people will look it up... The same exact Officials who were reprimanded wor their horrible management of the Wisconsin - Arizona State game the previous week were the same Officials that worked the BYU - utah game... Read the Daily Herald Article on the subject from the Daily Herald by Jared Lloyd...

    These threads are much better when commenters actually tell the truth...

    @965... When you want to talk what actually happened and what was on camera for the world to see (not just the 65k people at the game)... then come on back and talk... I guarantee you the tape of the last play in the game would have given BYU another shot at the end zone based on any objective observation...

  • pac12ute4life Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 10, 2013 3:13 p.m.

    Utah is the only national brand - it is superior both academically and athletically to BYU, and it isn't even close. Why is Utah State even mentioned here? Why not also include Weber and SUU?

    The fact is Utah has owned the state for the past 10 years. Utah has built a national brand. The other schools are just playing average football in a mediocre state.

    Onward and Upward, to the Rose Bowl!

  • SaltLakeCitySlicker SLC, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    I am 100% positive that the DesNews sports editors just wanted to see how many comments they could brew up by questioning who is truly the best team in the state. I think Utah has to be considered the best team in the state this year (2-0 against the other two doesn't lie), but they just wanted some reader comments, apparently. I am a Utah State fan, fyi, and I wish we hadn't lost Chuckie for that BYU game, but oh well!

  • Siosifa34 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:29 a.m.


    Championships- Utah (however since many BYU fans will argue that it was so long ago I'm willing to take this out)
    tournament appearances- tie- (tiebreaker= record)- Utah
    what have you done for me lately?- BYU - (in fact I'll give two to BYU since it has been so lopsided)
    Professional impact- Utah

    tie- 2-2 (tiebreaker goes to the all time head to head)- UTAH


    Championships - BYU
    All time record- Utah
    What have you done for me lately? - tie- too hard to make judgment call so tiebreaker goes to better record in bowl games of last decade- Utah (last decade Utes have been undefeated in bowl games and have had better bowl games- sugar, fiesta vs. poinsettia, las vegas and have also had 2 undefeated seasons)
    Professional Impact- BYU (Steve Young gives BYU the edge but Utah has put more players into the NFL than BYU and has more notable players currently playing)

    2-2 tiebreaker goes to the all time head to head - UTAH

    Basketball= UTAH Football= UTAH

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Oct. 10, 2013 6:38 a.m.

    I seriously don't ever remember thinking that Utah was even remotely in trouble vs BYU. BYU was not moving the ball consistently at all and their running game was shut down aside from one or two Hill scrambles. Did every delusional poster still claiming that the Y is better not eyeball that game?

  • Stang08 Southern, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    If we are talking about the big 2 and the aggies then it's obviously Utah. They got past USU and they beat pretty convincingly BYU. I'm not a Utah fan but there should be no dispute that of them, BYU, and USU that Utah is the best.

  • TDeagle24 mapleton, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    what the byu vs utah game shows is not what team is the better overall team, but what team was the better team on that given day. Utah was better on that given day, but that does not mean that they are the overall better team. the same thing can be said for byu vs utah state

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    Wow - I've learned so much from reading the comments. Such new, creative, stimulating and groundbreaking analysis. Why haven't these arguments been made before? Seriously though, coming back into these comment boards is like your little sister sticking in the most annoying CD for the gazillionth time.

    Guess what Ute fans - WE GET IT that you believe head-to-head matchups solve the "who's better" question.

    Guess what Cougar fans - WE GET IT that you believe an entire season of games and the final polls answer the same question.

    Who is right? IMPOSSIBLE to prove, because BOTH ARE OPINIONS. All recent games come down to the last play of the game. Look at matchups against common opponents over the last couple of years. Pretty even.

    Face it - neither team is great and both are probably above average. It's like everyone is popping a vein to prove who is 35th best in the country versus No. 36.

  • 965 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:02 p.m.


    To add to Jake above, the refs helped you more than anything in that game. Not sure why you're using them as en excuse. The ball wasn't tipped at the line of scrimage so that PI call should have been enforced, then the stupid taunting call on Rowe when that was happening all game. Hague was doing a lot of it before/after he got wrecked by York.

    And there was no PI call on the last play of the game because the BYU receiver CLEAR AS DAY, grabbed the Ute DB and pulled him to the ground trying to draw a PI call to get another un-timed down. Not to mention it wasn't even catch-able as your QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if his life depended on it.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 1:04 p.m.


    Sorry. Your neutral ref excuse is not based on fact. The fact of the matter is, the refs used in the Holy War game, in LES, this year, were NOT from the PAC 12, but were actually from the Big XII.

    A little more research prior to complaining will go a long way.

    Go Utes!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 9, 2013 11:54 a.m.


    So BYU is suddenly in love with overall records??? Yes, I suppose that's right, but I don't think it's suddenly... We've been in love with that from the beginning... And what has to be disappoingting to you is that all the polls (AP, Coaches, BCS, and Sagarin) share that attraction as well...


    What I meant to say in my previous post that didn't come across very clearly was that using "neutral refs" or refs that aren't from the PAC12 (like we have the last 3 years) would also help convince me that utah is the better team... (in addition to the other things that I stated).

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 9, 2013 11:42 a.m.


    What position does Keeton play on the Defensive side of the ball? That's what I thought.

    What would be proof to me??? utah beating the Cougs without neutral Refs that aren't from the PAC12... That would help alot... (particularly on stuff like kick off returns, or pass interference calls, etc).

    Winning in November would also help a bunch as well...

    And probably winning by more than a touchdown would be beneficial...

    If you can pull those things off then I'll be a believer...

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    "Sagarin ratings are based on record versus SOS."


    And how would you know, exactly? Obviously, my point went over your head.

    Sagarin refuses to reveal his formula (which is probably why the BCS was in love with it). The playoff committee's charge is to be transparent and consider all factors, including head-to-head results, and not be stuck with the secret formulas, point differentials, total offense stats and overall won-loss records that indy y fans are suddenly in love with.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    @poyman ***"Wish we could play each other again this year... I am confident the results would be quite different."***

    Really? You do realize that Ute fans have to listen to "confident" BYU fans say that stuff every year right?

    After 2010 Bronco said "the best team didn't win." The next year Utah beats BYU 54-10 in Provo...

    In 2012 BYU caught the Ute w/out their starting QB, TB, and both Safeties... Still the Cougars lost.

    After that loss in 2012 Van Noy and Hoffman decide to return for their senior year partly (their words, not mine) to beat Utah... Now after the 2013 loss (in Provo) they will leave school 0-4 vs. the Utes, but they would beat the Utes if they got another chance.

    BYU is always going to win the next game (‘cause they are really determined now) and every game thereafter, right?

    If 4 in a row, 9 of 12 doesn't prove anything, can you at least tell us what would be proof to you? I am not sure than facts even matter to BYU fans now days, some of them seem to have a complete disconnect from reality.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:12 a.m.


    You might think that you were, but to me you arethe ute fan that Max described... And he was dead on accurate.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    *Sigh* Any sports fan familiar with the state of Utah knew this was coming... As soon as BYU defeated a Keeton-less USU the BYU shills would spin-up the old hype machine...

    The predictability makes it amusing, Utah has beaten BYU 4 straight years, 9 of the last 12 years, but that is just because BYU has been "unlucky." Really? Don't you feel embarrassed to even start that line of argument?

    The real question is if BYU had Utah's schedule this year or last year would they have more wins than the Utes? There is not a shred of evidence to back-up that view, but many BYU fans seem to believe that as if it was an article of faith.

    If BYU starts beating some ranked team (something Utah has struggled with in recent years) then start talking. Until then BYU fans (and media shills) will just have to face the facts.

  • 965 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:01 a.m.


    Ok, br0. If you and your BYU buddies want to keep throwing the top 25 finishes out as a good thing be my guest. If you rather have 4 ranked finishes in the 17-25 range rather than 2 undefeated seasons and top 5 finishes(And whoever doesn't think the '8 Utes team deserved to be in the NCG is crazy). I guess that speaks pretty loudly about what Y fans expectations.

    Just remember that you only finished one of those seasons ranked beating Utah, but never EVER beat Utah when they were ranked the last decade, or TCU for that matter.

    Good day, sir.

    Oct. 9, 2013 8:25 a.m.


    Cedar Hills, UT

    Losing to Utah ruined the season for the Y. No matter what happens the rest of the year - the Utah loss makes 2013 a dud."

    Doubtful, the dud probably set in when BYU lost to a Virginia team who has yet to beat anyone else.

    The win over Texas even if Texas is bigger than any over Utah has probably ever been. Texas is the brand in college football and as an Independent that win was far bigger for BYU than winning the Holy War would have been even if Utah is better than Texas.

    That's no knock on Utah, I think Wilson's a good QB and they've won four straight. But, in the scheme of things BYU and Utah are no longer in the same conference and there are bigger games for both.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:44 a.m.


    Some day the Utes may have a winning season in the PAC; they might even win the South, play in a bowl game, and finish in the Top 25.

    When that day comes, are Utah fans really going to admit, that BYU was BETTER than Utah, simply because the Cougars won the head-to-head, even though BYU finished unranked, with a worse record?

    Or will U be "sore losers", unwilling to admit that BYU was "better", even though BYU won the head-to-head?

    The truth is, if the tables were reversed, Utah fans would be laughing at their own arguments.

  • Atrix Vancouver, WA
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:36 p.m.

    Just about every year the Jazz beat the Miami Heat in basketball. Does that mean the Jazz are better than the Heat? No. Sometimes the better team loses. Sometime the underdog gets the last bounce, the last shot, or the right call. And sometimes this happens many times in a row. If the Utes go 4-9 and BYU finishes 10-3 guess what?...BYU is probably the better team. Strength of schedule means nothing. It all comes down to who is playing the best at the time they play. BYU year after year starts slow and finishes strong. I'd bet anything that if Utah dared play BYU in November it would finish a blowout in BYU's favor barring any key injuries.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:35 p.m.


    There's nothing worse than a sore loser.

    I was raised, taught and coached different.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:33 p.m.


    I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense... If I read it correctly you are saying that a team with a tougher schedule is inherently better than teams with a less difficult schedule... that logic couldn't possibly be more misguided...

    That is like saying that Kentucky (who is 1-4 and plays in a league that has 7 teams in the top 25 and 5 teams in the top 10) are better than Oregon, Stanford or Washington because they only have 4 teams in the top 25 in their conference...

    Also, if rank was to be so dependent on strength of schedule as you suggest, then Ohio State with the country's 67th toughest schedule amongst FBS teams wouldn't be rated #4, Clemson with the 55th most difficult schedule wouldn't be rated #3, and Oregon with the the country's 58th toughest schedule wouldn't be rated #2...

    And what's more, utah and Washington State wouldn't be running away from BYU in preseason match ups over the next couple of years.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:37 p.m.

    A quote from a ute fan following the Cougs victory over Utah State... "Winning a game does not mean that you have the better team"... As I said then and I will say now...TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN BY A UTE FAN.

    It's true, utah beat the Cougs in September by one touch down using PAC12 refs for the third consecutive year (the same PAC12 refs incidently, that were chastised by the NCAA for messing up the end of the ASU - Wisconsin game the previous week)...

    It's true the utes won despite the fact that a BYU kick off return for a touchdown was called back... And it's true the utes won despite the fact that an obvious pass interference occured on the last play of the game that should have given the Cougs one more shot at the end zone from about 25 yards out...

    It was a one TD victory and it happened on a night that one of our best ILB couldn't play and our QB was starting his 6th game of his college career...

    Wish we could play each other again this year... I am confident the results would be quite different.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:34 p.m.


    Despite your vain attempt to claim otherwise, seasons are judged independently. It doesn't matter that Utah has beaten Utah State 10 of the last 11, Utah State was better last year.

    14 of the last 17 games in the BYU-Utah series have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime. Anybody trying claim "domination" with such feeble evidence is simply blowing smoke, especially when the team losing the head-to-head has often finished with a better record and higher ranking.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:25 p.m.


    Silly Ute; Sagarin ratings are based on record versus SOS.

    And yes, overall record will trump individual game head-to-head results every time.

    Our little friends on the hill seem to have forgotten the results of their own conference.

    Stanford beat Oregon 17-14, yet #2/#2 Oregon finished higher in the polls than #7/#6 Stanford.

    If Stanford, by virtue of their head-to-head win was better than Oregon, as Utah fans lamely assert, then why was Oregon ranked ahead of Stanford. Are you seriously going to argue that the #7/#6 ranked team was better than the #2/#2 ranked team?

    And if so, why should we ever give any credence to any ranking?

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:13 p.m.


    "Losing to Utah ruined the season for the Y. No matter what happens the rest of the year - the Utah loss makes 2013 a dud."

    Only in your dreams.

    A blowout win over a storied program like Texas more than makes up for a narrow loss to the Utes.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:08 p.m.


    "Bronco has a losing record vs BCS teams"

    Bronco is 14-14 (50%) and versus BCS teams.

    Kyle is only marginally better at 20-18 (53%).

    Yet, Bronco(4) has TWICE as many AP Top Finishes as Kyle(2).

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:33 p.m.


    "The difference, UNLV and Colorado played the same schedule as Utah, but we a significant difference in wins, plus 7 and plus 5."

    You're grasping at straws to argue a fallacy.

    In 2012, Iowa(4-8, #39 SOS) beat No Illinois(12-2, #121 SOS) 18-17. The two teams only played one other common opponent, yet No. Illinois finished #23/#23 in the final AP and Coaches polls, while Iowa was unranked.

    If Iowa played a B1G schedule, while No. Illinois played a mid-major schedule, why did No. Illinois finish significantly higher in the rankings than Iowa if the Huskies LOST to the Hawkeyes head-to-head?

    Sagarin ranked No. Illinois #39 and Iowa #70.

    Quite obviously, despite the desperate attempts by Utah fans to claim supremacy based on one game, the rest of the college football world seems to understand that seasons are judged in their entirety, not on one head-to-head game.

  • UtesRulePac12 Orem, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:20 p.m.

    Everyone seems to have missed the most important point in the article. Jason Whittingham noted that the Utes need to "have the mindset that we're (Utes) not playing with the little kids anymore."

    So . . . time to change our "diapers" for "big boy" pants.

  • Love skiing Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 5:46 p.m.

    Football is played on the field only. Utah won the state. Case closed.

  • jbohn Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    BYU fans keep saying "was UNLV better than Utah in 2007? What about aTm vs Bama last year?"

    Ill explain this to you guys one time....those are UPSETS. They happen all the time in CFB, that is what makes the sport so great. THE KICKER IS...It STOPS being an upset when it happens in back to back years, let alone four years straight, and 9 out of 12.. You guys realize how ridiculous you sound saying that you have been upset by the same team four years in a row??? and pointing to the biggest flaw in all of college sports as the evidence?

    Utah dropped several spots for losing to UCLA. Should they have? Not a chance, but thus is the nature (and the flaw) of the polling system. You could argue that if a team ranked in the 30-50 range gives a top 10 team all they can handle for 60 minutes, they should go up in the polls. If you 5 teams in the top 10 in consecutive weeks, and lose to them all, you wont even be ranked in the top 50. Does that make sense? Not really.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    Beating really bad teams is the only true measure of success. Head to head competition and scoreboard is the least accurate measure of success. Nobody should have to play good competition.

  • OC Fan Orange County, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    I reed the commants for the langwich arts trifecta: to brusch up on my grammer, syntacks, and spellin.

    Im a better fan of all Utahs teems becuz of it.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    Losing to Utah ruined the season for the Y. No matter what happens the rest of the year - the Utah loss makes 2013 a dud.

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 4:18 p.m.


    "BYU's defense knocked keeton out of football, utes defense couldn't do that."

    First off, from what I saw, Chuckie jumped over a defender and landed wrong on his knee. Nobody hit him from what I remember. Plus, even if someone did hit him, you're bragging about a BYU player hurting another one taking him out for the remainder of the game and season? Wow, that's something to be proud of!!

    I don't like to see anyone get hurt, no matter what team they play for. And that most certainly includes BYU. Give it time, if Hill keeps running as much as he does, his luck will eventually run out! For his sake, hopefully not.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:56 p.m.

    I can see it now.

    Next season, Harmon will have convinced coug fans that the playoff committee will take into account Sagarin ratings, total offense and score differentials--and will completely ignore the scoreboard and strength of schedule--thus putting BYU into the playoffs. And when BYU loses that first game the committee will look at the same things and put them in the NC game.

    Might as well print up the blue 2014 "We're No. 1" t-shirts right now.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    At least Dick Harmon can man up and call it like it is.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    This is always a lame argument. For BYU, you have to prove it on the field otherwise it's just words and conjecture. For Utah, you have to stop bellyflopping after the BYU game and start showing that you belong with PAC12 because there are a lot of doubters at this point. For USU, you need to go into MWC play and be successful and prove you're a good team with or without star players. BYU was without it's star receiver and one of their star linebackers for multiple games this year...no excuses, you got rung up by BYU, period. All three of these teams have nothing to brag about at this point. Winning is what matters, and the hardware that comes with it, and none of these teams has shown they're capable of bringing home anything more than tier 3 tinfoil.

  • OnlyInUtah Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    Wow talk about some bruised egos on both the red and the blue side of the state. Thank goodness my self worth isn't based on whether my team wins. This is really pathetic. Me thinks a few people should try to get a life. lol

  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:03 p.m.

    Let's come back with this topic at the end of the season after all 12 games have played out for each team. There is no argument right now except that BYU and Utah are both 3-2 with Utah winning the head-to-head. Keep in mind, though, that Utah has a much harder schedule going forward than BYU so even if Utah goes 6-6 and BYU goes 7-5 I would give the nod to Utah. But let's first see how the rest of the season goes.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    @ pac12ute4life:

    Your comment is so far from reality that I'm not sure if you are serious are just trying to be sarcastic. Let's pretend you meant it.

    If the competition in this state is such a joke, why is Kyle and all Ute fans in attentance so obviously relieved and excited to pull out extremely close wins against USU and BYU... and almost always by only single digits in games that go to the wire?

    If you actually were serious when saying that Utah is one of the best teams in the nation (something totally missed by all national ratings and ranking services and football experts), then you have immediately lost all credibility. Anything else you say won't be taken seriously by anyone. You should consider revising your statement.

    You realize that by saying "Mark my words" that you are sounding a lot like a another Utah pundit that literally no one takes seriously. Not great company to have put yourself in.

  • Nate in the 808 orem, ut
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    winning the battle vs BYU
    losing the war the rest of the year.
    5-7 looking pretty good right about now

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    "Sagarin Ratings"
    "Look at the total points scored, and allowed when Utah ST, Utah, and BYU played each other"
    "multiple variables"
    "The same game played a day later might have completely different results."

    It's so entertaining to see coug fans engage in rank speculation, meaningless number crunching and outright delusion as a balm for the sting of the ultimate sports measuring stick--the scoreboard.

    But let's give 'em credit for perfecting the technique; the Utes have given them the chance to do it every year. And next season, they can pursue their "Quest" without flinching when they see red.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:34 p.m.

    Imagine Bronco addressing the crowd before the game with Utah: "Folks, at the end of this game, we're going to be behind on the scoreboard, but at the end of the season we're going to have some good statistics and a better Sagarin rating. Show of hands -- who is cool with that?"

    In Tators' world, every Cougar fan in the stadium would raise their hand. Back on this planet, the coach would be booed for that attitude.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Some "fans" talk the talk...Teams walk the walk on the field.

    Oct. 8, 2013 2:27 p.m.


    Beverly Hills, CA

    Best team in the state of Utah? Please. The competition in this state is a joke. Utah is one of the best teams in the nation, and certainly one of the best teams in the West.

    Mark my words when Utah shocks Stanford this weekend.


    Don't bite, this is a fan of another school trying to make the Ute fans look bad...

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    Well...they just need to get rid of all of the scoreboards and put up sagarin boards.

    Oct. 8, 2013 2:26 p.m.


    Salt Lake City, UT

    I'm surprised the BYU Animation Department hasn't come up with a film which has BYU beating Utah the last four years. It could be a top seller! Nothing like a cartoon to make memories of on-field-results melt away!!


    Kind of like BYU and Sam Bradford right? :)

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    worf suggests "Look at the total points scored, and allowed when Utah ST, Utah, and BYU played each other this year."

    Nice idea, except there are 4 teams involved:
    Utah State (+Keeton), Utah, BYU, and Utah State (-Keeton).

    Oct. 8, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    But there is some posturing that BYU defeated the Aggies by a bigger margin on the road and was dominant, albeit USU played three quarters without star quarterback Chuckie Keeton.


    Keaton was 4 for 10 with a pick six when he went down. He's the best QB in the state but, I'm not sure USU wins even if he plays three more quarters.

    That said, Utah won both games head to head so the debate on the best team in the state is closed. It's too bad Utah is not as excited to face their Pac 12 slate as they are BYU though. They'd win some more games.

  • ablackett23 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    Only a matter of time until an article like this was coming from Harmon. BYU fans can keep talking about how they are the "best team." Utah just wins.

  • LeftCoastUte DANVILLE, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:55 p.m.


    Quick grab your calculator and check your numbers before you post that...oh too late.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    In 1995, 1996 & 1997 Michigan went 3-0 vs Ohio State. I remember because my friend is a huge Ohio State Fan. It drove him nuts!

    The final AP rankings for those years were as follows:

    Ohio State #6, Michigan #17
    Ohio State #2, Michigan #20
    Ohio State #12, Michigan UR

    Clearly Michigan was the better team in the rivalry game those three years, but even my brother who graduated from Michigan and is a big fan never mentioned that he thought Michigan was the better team at the end of the season.

  • 965 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    Stupid article imo, Utah is obviously the best of the three.

    I would say BYU as a whole is better than USU. I think the Y would've lost if Chuckie didn't get hurt. But this is football and injuries happen, that is why depth is important.

    Refs gifted BYU 2 penalties to give them their only TD drive in the game, without that its 20-6.

    Also playing the first game against USU comes into effect, you always get better as the season progresses.

    you think its bad now cougars, 4-0, 9 of 12? Wait 2 years and see our PAC-12 depth and recruiting. If you stay independent get used to it.

    As a Ute fan I really do hope the Big 12 invites you, despite what most of you cougar fans like to say you want to be in an elite conference. And it would make this rivalry far more entertaining than it already is. Independence is killing you, the MWC is probably a better schedule at this point. Especially if you can schedule Texas/Wisc/Notre Dame on your OOC games I think its a better slate.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:49 p.m.

    4 years in a row and the agony and desperation is hilarious.

    Please keep it coming.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    @ Go Red:

    Sigh all you want... even until your face turns red (sorry, it obviously already is), but that doesn't change the fact that statistics and rating systems actually count. That's why they are kept and made by national sport experts.

    If those statistics and ratings had shown Utah to currently be wonderful, you would've phraised the system up and down. But because they don't currently indicate as much, you are trying to totally discount them... which makes anything else you have to say hard to take seriously.

    Simple fact... in 3 of Utah's latest wins against BYU, the Cougars indeed did have better offensive statistics... like it or not.
    Another simple and undisputable fact... the current Sagarin ratings do have BYU 5 spots better than Utah... like it or not.

    Both indicate that indeed, the better teams don't always win. That's why there are upsets and why they play the game... because anything can happen on any particular day, depending on multiple variables. The same game played a day later might have completely different results.

    Like or not, that's just the way it is in the real world of sports.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    Look at the total points scored, and allowed when Utah ST, Utah, and BYU played each other this year.

    The clear best is BYU.

    Nuff said

  • LeftCoastUte DANVILLE, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    This article could have been written for the Onion. Forget head-to-head results on the field, Dick Harmon will decide the in-state rankings!

  • pac12ute4life Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Best team in the state of Utah? Please. The competition in this state is a joke. Utah is one of the best teams in the nation, and certainly one of the best teams in the West.

    Mark my words when Utah shocks Stanford this weekend.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    The only thing a controversial article like this does is inflame the biases of the fans of each in-state college, and nothing more.

    The most objective and nationally recognized ranking system in the country is the Sagarin Ratings... which leave out all biases. It takes into account more criteria than most fans even know exist. And when all the different measurable criteria are quantified, a current ranking is released each week, since teams get better or worse each week as the season progresses.

    This totally inclusive system currently has BYU ranked 29th in the nation (best in the state) and Utah at 34th (5 spots behind BYU), and USU still further back.

    So based on these totally objectified and non-partial criteria, BYU would indeed beat both Utah and USU if re-mataches were to take place today. Any other conclusions are based on now fading history and always biased opinion... as most previous comments obvious indicate and as most additional commments will continue doing.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    BYU is the best team in the state.

    Just ask them.

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    The fact is the best teams do not always win.

    All ute fans have is their team won and the are in PAC 10.2.

    What real evidence do you have that you are any better this year?

    statistically U is the same as BYU, and were lucky to get away with a win while BYU was still struggling with its offense.

    BYU defense is obviously and clearly better than many PAC teams including UCLA and Oregon State. An their Offensive is improving.

    IF BYU had been in PAC 3 years they be competing with top teams right now with the recruits they could've got.

    While the utes are still waiting and hoping.

    BYU's defense knocked keeton out of football, utes defense couldn't do that.
    6 picks against UCLA, the utes were lucky to still even be in the game at home.

    Utes wouldn't be posting on BYU articles if they didn't have such low self esteem, and felt the need to knock down others to make themselves think they are better.

    The fact is BYU and Utah are just above average teams at best with little difference, and USU an average team with an above average QB.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    "Another poll, which seems a little out of whack — check that, a lot out of whack — is Lee Burdorf’s Rankings. Burdorf, a handicapper of games, is a veteran sportscaster and play-by-play man for college football. He has BYU ranked No. 10, USU 28 and Utah 33. Unbelievable or not, it is an outsider's opinion." -- Dick Harmon


    Apparently not whack enough to make Dick Harmon's analysis. That's like using Wiki as a source in a "research" report.

    But hey, if it helps soothe the pain of going 0-4 in your Super Bowl... go with it!

    I for one have no problem BYU being ranked higher in irrelevant pools as long as we have SCOREBOARD.

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    "Obviously we are talking about who is better on a particular day."

    No, what everyone seems to be talking about is the more subjective evaluation of which Utah-based team is the "best" overall this year. If we're only talking about some imaginary State Championship trophy, then congrats, the Utes get it.

    I don't even necessarily believe BYU is "better" than Utah, but I think it's close. Of course BYU would struggle to win 8+ games playing a full PAC-10.2 schedule, though their own schedule is pretty solid compared with the historical WAC/MWC standards of both teams.

    What I can't abide in these forums is simple-minded, logic-free assertions such as "We beat you therefore we are a better team so there." Hey, the point is to win each game, and the Utes beat BYU. I hated it, but it happened. But that's just one (admittedly important)criterion to consider if we're going to engage in a debate about the "best" team. So-and-so earlier wrote something like "Utah could lose by 60 in every remaining game and BYU could win out" and he would still insist Utah is a "better" team. Absurd.

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    Keep trying Harmon. Your digging deep for this one.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:28 p.m.

    "the Seattle media doesn't care anything about Utah"



    Bill Withers of the Seattle Times writes an excellent blog, "Pac-12 Confidential". While the four northwest schools get significant coverage, Utah is mentioned as frequently as the rest of the schools in the conference, which is the point of the blog.

    You'd know that if you spent less time following Harmon's blue & white pompons.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    Obviously, when determining the best team in Utah, the scoreboard is the last determining factor.
    What matters most is who had the most easy wins. Why play good teams to test yourself when you can beat up on bad teams.
    Scoreboard never resolves anything, unless it determines who can beat bad teams. Then it matters.

    Oct. 8, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    Ha, no, the Seattle media doesn't care anything about Utah. I have 3 alma maters, one of them being BYU. I read articles pertaining to BYU, which are usually found in the Utah media, so therefore, I understand Utes' irritation in reading articles like these, as I feel the same when I read articles back in Utah that are blatantly pro-Utah. Once again, yawn

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    I'm really not concerned about what BYU does the rest of the season. I'm mostly concerned with our offense getting back on track after too many mistakes against UCLA and the defense continuing to improve. If we can do that, I see possible wins over USC, Arizona, Washington State and Colorado. Combined with the wins we already have, that would get is to a bowl game and be an improvement in conference play. That is what I'm hoping to see this season.

    As far as the rankings go, many of those polls are based on BYU's win over then 15th ranked Texas. We all know now they were overrated and never should have been number 15 in the country. If they were ranked then where they are now, the impact to BYU's ranking wouldn't be nearly as big.

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    Thing is, Utah doesnt care about being the best in state. Thats BYU's goal, BYUs superbowl according to their own players. Utah wants to be the Best in the Pac-12. Utah isn't there yet, may never be, but being the best in state is a given these days. Go Utes!

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    BYU is clearly the best team in state, that's why they beat Utah this year! Duh! Oh wait, well the year before that then... you dont say? Well the year before that?...oh no 54-10, certainly the year before that then!... Oh not that year either? 5 years ago?... Thats right BYU won in OT 5 years ago, see BYU is the best team in the state!

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    Dick Harmon post "SuperBowl" denial. Absolutely pathetic.

    Which team in state is the best?

    "Well, the Utes have bragging rights...! But even still...!" How desperate can you get?

    It's not arguable, Dick. The Utes beat YbU and the Aggies. The Cougies beat a Chuckie-less Aggies squad, no comparison. Insanely desperate "sports journalism." Unranked GT is visiting LES, while the Utes host #5 Stanford. Admit it, more exciting football is being played in RES than in happy valley these days, and it hurts.

    Especially when your squad is 0-4, and counting...!

    Go Utes!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:53 a.m.


    The difference, UNLV and Colorado played the same schedule as Utah, but we a significant difference in wins, plus 7 and plus 5. Advantage Utah.

    Alabama and A&M play in the same league, similar schedule. Advantage Bama plus one.

    The concept of built in wins over Weber State (1-11), Idaho (1-11), New Mexico State (1-11), and Hawaii (3-9) is the difference between 8-5 and 5-7.

    For some reason Cougar Nation thinks Utah can't compete with such teams even though facts prove them wrong:

    * Utah finished 33-6 in the MWC (behind TCU 33-3)
    * Since then Utah is 8-1 vs such teams only loss was at AP #18 Keeton led Utah State in OT

    For some reason Cougar Nation thinks they can compete in a real conference even though evidence suggests no:

    * Bronco has a losing record vs BCS teams
    * TCU, a team BYU can't stay within 2 TDs, has 9 losses after finishing with 4 loses in the MWC
    * Utah, a team BYU can't beat, is 7-13 in the PAC-12

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:49 a.m.

    Dick, you nailed it. Sensationalist writing trying to stir the hearts of the fans here in the state of Utah and abroad. At the end of the day, the team that wins is the best team, even if it is for a day. However, one cannot dispute that Utah has owned BYU for the past 4 years straight, thus you cannot say that Utah was the best team for the day 4 years running. No denying.

    Go UTES!!

  • afi1 Saint George, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    I dont see how there is any debate here? If you have the three fastest kids in the school race- Kid A, Kid B, and Kid C. A beats everyone, B beats C, and C loses to everyone. That would make A the fastest kid in school, B the second fastest, and C the slowest. Pretty cut and dry. I know that there is stats and beating people by a larger amount, but the fact of the matter is, If I beat you, I am better. No questions asked. BYU beats Utah State and everyone starts making crazy claims that they are better than Utah even though they got rocked. Lets put our pride aside, look at the head to head games and realize, Utah is the best!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    I'm surprised the BYU Animation Department hasn't come up with a film which has BYU beating Utah the last four years. It could be a top seller! Nothing like a cartoon to make memories of on-field-results melt away!!

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    ...and according to joe bloe's blog, "football fanatic", (unbelievable but an outside observer), Utah is ranked 29th, Utah State 30th and BYU 55th.

    Leave it to Dick to think that Football should be played in the minds of BYU fans and not on the field. Utah loses to 11th and 28th ranked teams in the country, but beats BYU who has lost to the 90th and 38th ranked teams in the country. Hmmmm... a real mental hurdle to overcome to determine who the better team is.

    ...where was the UTah BYU game played this year?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:11 a.m.


    I don't get you're comment. That would be like me, here in Utah, complaining about the pro huskie media in Seattle...Or does the Seattle media write blantantly pro-Utah articles?

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    This article shows why the BYU-Utah game has no more reason to actually play. Harmon can argue for the best team without playing.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    BYU fan here.

    It's clear BYU is now thoroughly spooked when they play Utah. It's now mental. Therefore, and the fact their coaching is a notch above ours, makes the Utes better.

    Deal with it guys...

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:54 a.m.


    We don't complain about our schedule. We try to answer the detractors that say that Utah gets up for byu then lets down the rest of the year...as futile as it is. The only people not happy with the Utes in the PAC 12 are the "fans" in happy valley.

    The local media is probably the best reason that the Utes should never, ever play byu.

    Go PAC 12 Utes!

    Oct. 8, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    Now Ute fans know how I feel when I read blantantly pro-Utah articles. Yawn. I so wish Utah played my Huskies this year

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    There is no better cheerleader for BYU than Harmon.

  • The Solution Dayton, OH
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    There is best team and best program. Currently, Utah has the best program based on results of the last decade, and the head to head wins this year add to that. It is not leaps and bounds better than BYU's program, but 2 undefeated seasons with BCS bowl wins are significant accomplishments.

    Best team is a moment in time phrase. Currently, Utah is the best team of the three. Even a loss to Stanford and a BYU win over GT will not change that in my opinion. However, by the end of the year, after the post season, our opinions may change regarding which team is the best at that time.

    There is no question Utah was better than my Cougs this last Holy War. Even with BYU scrambling at the end, one team looked poised and one team didn't. However, losses take a toll on a team and can turn expected victories into more losses. I don't care what conference you are in, but an 11-2 BYU team is better than an 7-6 Utah team. Conference SOS can only make up for 1-2 losses.

  • TamaBYU Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    From Y mount, Utah is the best team in the state no doubt. They have beaten us 4 years in row.

    But can the Utes stop complaining how tough your schedule is and start winning games. Did you all go to the pac 12 expecting to play teams from the MWC? You all wanna play with the big dogs so play with the big dogs and cut the complains and start winning.

    When Texas came into town you all thought they were going to run all over BYU. But then when we killed them, you all are saying that they weren't a good team. At the end of the day BYU has beaten a ranked team this season.

    I'm love my cougs but I support the Utes when they're not playing BYU. So to my Utes friends, much is given much is required. If you all are sick of playing top teams, humble yourselves and join the MWC!

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    I guess we should just forget about a national championship game since the score does not really matter. Let's just go back to 1984 and vote the best team in.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:04 a.m.


    Obviously we are talking about who is better on a particular day. I thought that went without saying. Transitivity does not always work in sports, as you pointed out, but that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about what team is the best in Utah and in this case it is really simple: Utah beat both BYU and Utah State. End of argument. The days they played are our data points and there is no reason to pursue it further. To try to argue that (as some apparently are) BYU is really better because they more badly beat a common opponent would be a decent argument ONLY if BYU and Utah had not played. But they have played. Again, end of argument.

  • jaxon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:02 a.m.

    Utah beat BYU and surely would have beat Virgina.When you beat someone at their house and 9 out of 12 times over the last 12 years you are the better team.Utah just happens to be in maybe the toughest conference in the nation.I'm sure when they play again in 2016 Utah will win again.

  • Brad J West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Utah fans want to think they are on top, and let them THINK that, becasue that is all they have. BYU will always be the team that is talked about.

  • el guapito Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    I disagree with Mildred T. Bass. The best team is obviously the PAC 10.2 BCS conference team loaded with 7 star recruits. Besides they were the first in the whole universe to win their bowl game in each of the last 4 years.

  • Dave S Holladay, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    I'm amazed that byu fans even try to muster up any kind of argument. You have lost four straight games to the Utes. There is no doubt who the top dog is in the state when it comes to head to head games and recruiting. The current and future of football in the state is the UTES!!

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    The better team rarely wins the game. For example, BYU has been the best team in the State the last decade and yet they have rarely beat Utah.

    Makes sense.

  • Hochmut West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    OK, say what you want, and give Utah the opportunity to be "The Best Team in Utah"; who really cares. After the season is over it still comes down to total victories and a bowl game; and it will continue to be "about BYU" by both Utah and Utah State.

    Utah needs to worry about the PAC12 experience and less about beathing Utah; Utah State is, and will continue to be, a non-entity when it comes to the other two schools. BYU needs to step up their wins on a tougher schedule and this does't include Utah. They really don't ever need to include them in the future because a loss to Utah is not good; a win against Utah, which fills out the bottom of the PAC12, is also doing little to enhance the BYU schedule--so they really don't need to play them. Play Utah State, however, for a win and only play in Provo--no need to go to Logan any longer.

  • dustman Gallup, NM
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    Cougar fan, but the Utes have the best football team in the state. They are bigger, faster, and play with a lot of intensity. Intensity is something that BYU seems to be lacking.

    BYU beat USU by more points than Utah did, but it wasn't the same team that the Utes beat. USU without Keeton is not as strong.

    When the Utah beat BYU it was obvious who was the better team. Even Bronco took his headset off for the last three minutes of the game. Both the BYU coaches and players gave up on that one.

    This year, Utah is the better team.

    Oct. 8, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    What is with all the BYU fans saying the BYU game is Utah's Super Bowl. I'm pretty sure that comment came out of BYU camp from a certain star linebacker. Also, can't really call it an upset when Utah wins 4 straight against BYU and dominates over the last 12 years. Just my humble opinion though. Hope all three teams do well this week.
    Go Utes!!!

  • Just Truth Saratoga Springs, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    The best team in the state on Saturday will be Stanford! HAHA

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    We are the most awsome for sure because we have more bcs stars than anybody else and that means we will win the rosebowl! Go Utes!

  • goforit Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    What does it matter. None of the three are that good. Take an all star team from all three work them together through spring and fall and they still don't win the PAC 12. not even close. Utah by their own account haven't beat anyone since Alabama 5 years ago. Since then the best win every year is a horrible BYU team yet you cry that your elite.

    BYU every year we here the same thing this is our year yet you nd up no better than 8 and 5. This year will be no different. Yet next year we will hear the same cry of greatness. Never happen until you have a better o-line.

    USU you have one great player he goes down and you do nothing. Let's quit the banter of who is the best in the state because on the national scene none of them in matter.

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    "The best team is the team that wins on the field."

    It would be nice if evaluating teams were that simple. The Utes beating BYU in 2013 means they were the better team on that day. It's so easy to poke holes in statements by guys like Max. It almost feels like bullying, but imma do it anyway.

    If Team A beats Team B, then Team B beats Team C, but Team C beats Team A, which is the "best" team? Answers to questions like this and the need for more information is at the core of the reason other factors matter when evaluating overall team quality. And, yes, I know the U beat both of them, and goodie for you, and the U may well turn out to be the best team in the state. But you can't evaluate a team's quality based on one win. Or, you can, but you can't then claim with a straight face you know jack about sports.

    To use an extreme, unlikely example, if the Utes lose out and BYU wins out, you apparently will keep chirping about your State Championship. And nobody else in the sports world will care.

  • BigCougFan Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    Even the top teams in the nation will lose a game in an upset... that doesn't mean the winner of that game is the better team. Utah pulled out an upset in the game with BYU and records and rankings will prove it at the end of the season.

    Let's face it.. Utah's season is over and they've had their bowl game against BYU. The fans in red and white have gone home and are all just following BYU now.

    I doubt anyone outside of a Utah fan would consider them to be the best team in the state by the end of the season. They are just a team that pulled off an upset in their bowl game.

  • evansrichdm west jordan , UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    As a BYU fan I got to say that Utah is the best team because on the field because they won. The issue I have with Utah is that they beat us and then have a losing records, which make our loss even that much worse.
    The thing I like with BYU is that they do see what the need improve on and address it. Example would be the passing. The passing is improving and will keep improving. Once BYU passing in improved team will need to plan for both a pass and run game and that is harder to beat.
    For Utah their problem is they seem to start off slow and then get thing rolling, last week being a expaction, but six picks! Be glad that you only lost by seven. So far only one team in the state has beaten a ranked team, and it is not Utah.
    Utah is embressing us be beating BYU and then losing to all the teams it plays out side of the state.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:21 a.m.

    The best team ALWAYS wins. That is how we determine the best team. The scoreboard is the bottom line. It trumps everything else. Nothing else matters.

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:02 a.m.

    Why write articles like this that serves no good purpose but to incite bitterness and contention between teams? Why is there ever an argument as to who's the best this year when the Utes already beat us and the Aggies fair and square? I'm a huge Cougar fan who hated losing to the Utes but we did. Let's move on and wish all the state teams good luck the rest of their seasons. Recognize that Utah is unquestionably the best in the state today and give them their just due. It doesn't matter what the silly polls says. They beat us and the Aggies on the field where it counts, not in the polls. Stop stirring up unnecessary hate among the fans!

    Well this probably won't be published but we'll see!

    Go Cougars! Go Utes! Go Aggies!

  • Go Utes! Springville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 6:12 a.m.

    Wow Dick. Just wow.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:15 a.m.

    @Down under

    "Utah gets up for one game and folds while BYU plays out the season" WRONG. Utah got up for Oregon State and UCLA and was in position to make one play to come out on top against far better teams that BYU supposedly plays out the season with.

    Think 2011 when BYU was 3-3 in six games against the better part of their schedule, including a 54-10 loss at home to Utah as one of those games. Then they played out the season as you say and won seven other games finishing at 10-3 for a ten win season. Sounds good for BYU fans boasting superiority over Utah except those seven games were against the weak teams UCF, San Jose State, Idaho State, Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and Tulsa.

    Utah finished 8-5 with a PAC 12 schedule that year and BYU fans still claimed they were better team after losing 54-10 against Utah because they beat seven patsies for a ten win year. YES SEVEN. Oh I forgot you finished in the top 25 because of brand name and ESPN exposure. Ya'll always add that up to your inductive stats.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:04 a.m.

    BYU wouldn't win 4 games with Utah's schedule. They would beat Weber State, a USU team minus Chuckie, Washington State and Colorado. That's it.

    BYU will beat GT, Houston, Idaho, Nevada, and maybe Boise State who is not what they were. That will give BYU 7 or 8 wins. This will fire up the blue to claim they are better because Utah will struggle to get to 6 wins. That would be respectable to me considering Jake Murphy and Kenneth Scott are now gone. Dres Anderson is the only legit PAC 12 receiver left. But Dres, Murphy, and Scott would all start for the majority of BSC teams across the country. How good could Utah have been with Scott not breaking his leg the first game of the year?

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:51 a.m.

    I used to root for BYU when they weren't playing Utah except for when conference ramifications were in play. But all to many BYU fans polished me the wrong way like many Ute fans do for Cougar fans.

    I got so tired of the 1984 argument and the ridiculous Sagarin ratings. But the worst is when BYU fans point to top 25 rankings. Look, when schedules were comparable under Kyle and Bronco from 2005 to 2010, BYU had four top 25 finishes to Utah's three. Still, Utah beat BYU then and now, won two BSC games and went undefeated twice. What happened 30 years ago is old. Most these college players were 10 years away from being born.

    BYU gets a leg up on top 25 rankings because of brand name. It's tradition, honor and spirit. Hey good for you. But if you are going to bad mouth the BCS, at least see how the sham of the ranking system is no different. It's a popularity contest. ESPN, exposure, and fan base aid in all that. My Utes belong to the BCS and I still despise it.

    Ya'll talk smack when you have lost 9 of 12.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:28 a.m.

    And BYU plays so well outside of Utah right down under? Like that debacle against Virginia who is as bad as Colorado is. Oh and that loss against San Jose State in 2012 was epic. Although that power house helped you wind 10 games in 2011. Utah was the better team in 2011. Utah stunk last year as Whitt chose to develop Wilson as a freshman and finished 5-7 instead of being 6-6 or maybe 7-5 with the steady but limited Hays. BYU was arguably better last year despite losing to Utah when the Utes gave BYU three chances at a field goal and overtime opportunity. But head to head doesn't matter. This year Utah is way better than BYU right now. I know what you think. Utah is 0-2 in the PAC 12. Those were tough losses but Utah lost two games that could have gone either way against tough opponents. Utah beat BYU again in Provo but that goes unnoticed somehow. But hey BYU is now for real because they beat a Keetonless Aggie team. GT, Houston, Idaho and Nevada will have BYU fans thinking they are superior because of record.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:17 a.m.

    @Down under

    "Utah gets up for one game and folds while BYU plays out the season" WRONG. Utah got up for Oregon State and UCLA and was in position to make one play to come out on top against far better teams that BYU supposedly plays out the season with.

    Think 2011 when BYU was 3-3 in six games against the better part of their schedule, including a 54-10 loss at home to Utah as one of those games. Then they played out the season as you say and won seven other games finishing at 10-3 for a ten win season. Sounds good for BYU fans boasting superiority over Utah except those seven games were against the weak teams UCF, San Jose State, Idaho State, Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and Tulsa.

    Utah finished 8-5 with a PAC 12 schedule that year and BYU fans still claimed they were better team after losing 54-10 against Utah because they beat seven patsies for a ten win year. YES SEVEN. Oh I forgot you finished in the top 25 because of brand name and ESPN exposure. Ya'll always add that up to your inductive stats.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:20 a.m.

    I almost never want to play the same team in a bowl game that we played during the regular season, but I am so hoping that Utah is bowl eligible and selected to play in the Kraft Fight Hunger bowl.

    Hill will be a completely different QB by December and I'd love one more shot at revenge before the hiatus.

    However, I do have to admit, the PAC looks stronger than they have in many years (especially the North) and the probability of the Utes being bowl eligible is slim. Oregon, Stanford, UCLA and Washington may all be Top 25 teams.

    I'm betting we play Oregon St or Arizona in December.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Oct. 7, 2013 11:14 p.m.


    It's laughable how Utah fans refer to rankings ONLY when the rankings support their crimson-colored narrative.

    Utah fans beat their chests about EVERY ranked team the Utes beat, including a barely ranked team like unranked/#25 Pittsburgh. And, they beat their chests even more every time the Utes are ranked.

    Yet, for some strange reason, rankings become meaningless to Utah fans when the Utes aren't ranked or a ranked lower than Utah fans think they should be.

    Such is the crimson-colored view from under the bubble on the hill.


  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:55 p.m.

    Orem, UT

    Please keep up with your analysis if it makes the next 3 years more bearable for you. For me, all of the angst from Dick and Cougar "fans" is wildly entertaining. When you can't settle it to your liking on the field, find some other way.


  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:49 p.m.

    "Which team in the state is the best?"

    Obviously, the team that finishes with the best record and the highest final ranking.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:41 p.m.

    Harmon is correct; Utah owns bragging rights...

    for now.

    However, unless Utah fans can honestly say that

    UNLV(2-10) was BETTER than Utah(9-4) in 2007
    Colorado(3-10) was BETTER than Utah(8-5) in 2011
    Texas A&M(11-2) was BETTER than undisputed, unanimous national champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012

    then, quite obviously, head-to-head is decidedly NOT the ONLY thing that matters.

    Except for individual game bragging rights, final record and final ranking are much more important in determining which team was more successful, and therefore, BETTER, for the entire season.

    You seriously expect to argue that if Utah tanks the rest of the season to finish 4-8 with no bowl, while BYU and USU go on to finish 9-4 with bowl wins, that Utah would be considered better than BYU or USU simply because Utah won a couple of early season head-to-head matchups.

    The truth is, the ONLY fans who will be claiming that are the crimson glasses wearers.

    Guaranteed, there won't be another legitimate poll/ranking system out there who won't have the Utes ranked SIGNIFICANTLY below BYU and USU.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:27 p.m.

    Let's pretend that that byu was undefeated instate.

    Would an article like this ever be written?...homer

  • RSLfanalways West Valley, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:21 p.m.

    This year will not be good for any Utah football team. BYU will go to the same old boring bowl game, USU may win the MWC but it is becoming more doubtful. Ute's have a tough schedule and has to beat 3 more teams that are not the state of Utah.

    There is no doubt that the Ute's are the best in the state for football this year, but that is not saying much.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 10:09 p.m.

    Rally the troops DNews rally the troops.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    Oct. 7, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    MacNasty beat me to it. I was going to use the Alabama-Texas A&M example.

    Yes, right now Utah has the edge because they beat both USU and BYU. However, by the end of the season, Utah may no longer be considered the better team. Utah fans can ignore rankings all they want, but where a team falls in the rankings at the end of a season matters a lot more than the results of just one game.

    And as for "Rankings don't totally take into account strength of schedule," some ranking systems do take SOS into account. Sagarin does. And, if I'm not mistaken, so do the computer formulae that are used in the BCS rankings. Oops! There goes that argument.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    Oct. 7, 2013 9:18 p.m.

    So, last year Texas A&M beat Alabama which gave A&M bragging rights and therefore was a better team. What an ignorant standpoint, however that is the logic of the Ute fans. Reality is that because of Alabama's complete body of work in 2012, it was ranked #1.

    That concept totally eludes the Ute fans (except when the Utes were ranked in the top 10 twice).

    Last year Utah State was ranked higher in the final polls than BYU making USU a better team overall last year. Of course the Utes were ranked the lowest of the three in all final polls including the precious BCS final poll which, by the way, includes SOS.

    Brave Sir Robin, BYU fans might jump in logic once in a while, but your argument and most everything you purvey on BYU articles has no logic at all. You must believe that Texas A&M was better team than Alabama last year because your "logic" demands it. Say hi to the Wizard in the Emerald City, everyone else will use the final polls as most credible measure of a team's accomplishments in a season.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 7, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Best teams don't always win. Some teams are just fortunate.

    If Utah was the better team, they would have gone bowling, but didn't earn it.

    This year will likely be the same.

    Oct. 7, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Harmon: "Which team in the state is the best? Utes have bragging rights"

    Yes, but it will only be a matter of time before we have BYU fans posting that head-to-head competition doesn't actually matter. That overall stats, yardage, etc. is all that matters. And final Sagarin ratings as well.


  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Oct. 7, 2013 8:50 p.m.


    What do you mean "for now it's the UofU"? Utah won. Utah beat BYU and USU on the field. There's no need to speculate about which team is better, no need to compare records or rankings. All teams have played head to head...Utah is first, BYU second, USU third. Period.

    It won't matter if Utah loses the rest of their games by 60 or if BYU wins out. Utah beat BYU on the field (in Provo, too). That means Utah is the better team, end of story.

    It never ceases to amaze me how BYU can lose a game and BYU fans can rationalize to themselves that they were actually the better team. Do you take classes on how to make those jumps in logic?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 8:28 p.m.

    Yes utah definitely has the head to head bragging rights, that is inarguable.

  • The Moose Southern, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 7:48 p.m.

    And how about we rank Duchesne ahead of Alta in high school football. After all, they have more wins.

  • tuffgong POCATELLO, ID
    Oct. 7, 2013 7:02 p.m.

    For now it's the UofU, but if they continue to get beat in conference, it's the Y. I can understand if the utes thump their chest if they're sporting a competitive/respectable record in the PAC 12, but they aren't. They're sub .500. BYU is their Super Bowl and they've earned those bragging rights, but that's it. They won't win more than 6 games this year. 6-6 at best, which is somewhat respectable, but nothing to yell and scream about, like Krissy B does.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    And after Utah beats Stanford 32 to 27?

    With 6 picks and taking an undefeated top 15 to the last play? Utah is proving to be much improved from last year and its only a matter of time before we start winning these games. And when that happens the quietness in Provo will be deafening. Utah's talent is much better than byu's. and to think if we only played byu 12 times a year we would go bcs bowling every year.

    But I would rather play with big boys.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    The polls are a beauty contest, particulary the Coaches poll. BYU is getting votes because they are coming off of two wins and a win over Texas, which has some big name appeal. But head to head wins trump all, and, however painful it may be to admit for Cougar fans, Utah is the best team in the state this year, by virtue of their head to head wins over BYU and USU. Scoreboard is all that matters.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    Utah is 18-4 against lowly teams Utah state and byu the last 9 years.

    That is why we are moving towards other teams like Michigan(home and home) and Fresno.

    Beating byu and usu is not seen as a good win(see nation mocking Texas for losing to byu)

    Fresno is as prestigious as byu and is seen as a better win.

  • Ironmomo Ogden, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2013 5:43 p.m.

    Pollsters also had Texas at 15 and Boise State at 19 preseason and look where they are now.
    I always go with the scoreboard.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 5:42 p.m.

    Teams currently ranked on byu's schedule: zero
    Teams currently ranked on utah's schedule: four

    Rankings don't totally take into account strength of schedule, or a Texas AM team that barely lost to Alabama wouldn't have dropped in rankings. And northern Illinois last year wouldn't have made it to top 15

    Utah is the best team and proved in on the field. Again

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    Well duh! Utah gets up for one game year and then folds. BYU plays out the season. We just need to trust the experts and not chris b.