the government is shut down ...and ...oh my gosh....nothing has changed. Just
like the sequester nonsense ...nothing has changed. The real truth is 80% of the
government is up and running and with the exception of a national park or two
what else has changed? Has the US mail stopped? Has social security checks
stopped? Do our soldiers not have gas for their HumV's? If there is
anything essential not running you can blame Harry and Barack because the GOP
has proposed 8 bills to fully fund all Veterans stuff and other essential
federal programs etc... but Barack is more concerned with 'making it
hurt' than leading the nation. Yes sir ...make it hurt Barack. Nice to know
we have a leader watching out for us doesn't it.
"A majority of Utahns don't believe it was worth shutting down the
federal government to fight President Barack Obama's new health care law
and most blame Republicans just as much as Democrats, according to a new Deseret
News/KSL poll."I mean, HOW can any Christian interested in
fairness and truth blame the Dems in the same proportion as the Repubs, in this
case?Extortion is not a Christian value, nor is obstructionism, nor
is being willing to damage the country to get your way.
My comments are ALWAYS censored by DN...It's Obama's fault!!!
To the certain religious members that remain dominant in Utah and Idaho that use
words such as "Patriotism", "Rights", "Freedom" (and my
personal favorite) "The Constitution" I ask....Do these words only
pertain to you and or your group's said beliefs? Amazing that you do not
want the government involved in "your" healthcare decisions but then you
are all just fine with the same government telling you whom you can and cannot
marry! So many more things need to be fixed here in Utah. State education system
(including teacher pay), draconian liquor laws, (again the government telling
you what you can & cannot drink!) Infrastructure and most important voting
out every last single one of these adolescent, destructive Tea Partiers!
If we've learned anything with the shutdown is no shutdown is 100% and the
president chooses to fund PBS over national parks. Second, we are
overly dependent on the Federal Government, good wake up call.
He's not fighting for this Utahn.
Obamacare will cost my family over $6500 more a year for the "Gold"
plan, meaning second from the bottom. Deductible will increase to $6000 a year,
meaning that it will cost our family close to $15,000 a year for health
insurance compared to $4200 at present. Someone is clearly benefitting from
Obamacare, but it's not my family! Outrageous!! I will vote against any
candidate or incumbent who is not for repealing this monstrosity!!
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The government should keep
its current obligations and do its best to restrict and peel back the things it
can influence. These strong-handed maneuvers seldom yield good longterm
Obama and Reid are responsible for shutting down the government because they
refused to accept the funding money the House gave them to fully fund the
government less Obamacare. Now Obama is trying to make it worse by shutting
down things that are not owned or funded by the federal government like the
state roads to some memorials and places like Mount Vernon, etc. The tyranny is
getting worse each day. Thank goodness we have men of courage and not
compromise like Lee and Cruz.
I believe that it is unconscionable that the President or Congress would play
chicken with a government default.
The Utah poll results reported here are confirmed by national poll results.
Contrary to what the far Right true believers think, more than 70% of Americans
oppose the Republican shutdown of our federal government. Most understand that
'Obamacare' is a viable law passed by both Houses of Congress and
signed by the President. It was also upheld by the Supreme Court of the United
States. People know there is no rational reason to let most Republicans in the
House overrule a duly passed law. All of our branches of government count, not
just a minority of the majority of the House.
Obama and Reid apparently haven't read or simply don't care and the
constitution which clearly establishes three branches of government. Democrats
are being exceeding selfish and arrogant, they are wanting everything and giving
up nothing. This indicates that they are the culprits wanting to shut down
government. Obama has never really governed all he does is campaign and
complain. He then says disingenuous things like he works with Republicans. No he
dictates his demands and using the bully pulpit and a lapdog media to force his
way. It is Harry Reid and Obama who shut down the government.
Dan Jones provides accurate,reliable polls. Those who dismiss his polls as
liberal and inaccurate are likely the same types of people who dismissed the
polls predicting an Obama win. Many were completely shocked -- including Romney
-- when Romney lost. It's important to look at the
time-tested, scientific polls -- such as Dan Jones. Accurate, scientific polls
also suggest the Republicans are currently self-destructing; yet stubborn, rigid
Republicans refuse to see the writing on the wall.
Some people look forward to Christmas, vacations, warm weather.From now on
we can also look forward to extreme right wing Tea Party politicians who chose
to shutdown the US government and totally disrupt our country.According to
them this will occur year after year after year.....Let's find a name
for this, so we can put it on our calendars as a day to remember!
Trying to defund a legitimately legislated law by shutting down the entire
federal government, and threatening to default on debts that could lead to a
recession (or a depression) that could dwarf the recession brought about by the
bursting of the housing and finance bubble, and could destabilize the
WORLD'S ECONOMY, is NOT what I want in a President. It shows that he is
grandstanding, rather than trying to save democreacy. Mr. Lee is
playing a political game of chicken! Even if republicans back down in time to
avoid defaulting, there is a distinct possibility that the damage that has been
done could lead to damage and undermine the United States' role as a
financial superpower that leads in setting economic policy for the world.This may sound exaggerated, but remember what happen the last time the
"fiscal cliff" was averted, and how it led to the lowering of the credit
rating of the US. The reason why? They doubted the ability of the two party
system to compromise and come to an agreement over on a satisfying political
solution to the divides that could lead to default....AND HERE WE
ARE AGAIN! AND WE ARE EVEN MORE DIVIDED!
Let us not forget, it might be better for a little shut down now for a deeper
discussion, than to end up with a total collapse a little further down the road.
We can't keep printing money, because sooner or later no one will want our
debt. Have you noticed how many potato chips are now in a bag now compared to a
couple of years ago. It is called inflation, the kind we really don't
notice all at once, but it is still there. Finally when the Fed has to raise
interest rates, which it will finally have to do, we are going to be in big
trouble. We have to stop playing this political game on both sides
of the isle. Remember, when you point a finger, you always have 3 of your own
fingers pointing back at you.
@ Captain GreenMatthew 22:29 "Jesus replied, "You are in error
because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God"Acts
2:42-44The Fellowship of the Believers44 And all who believed were
together and had all things in common. 45 And they were selling their
possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had
need. 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in
their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47 praising
God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day
by day those who were being saved.Socialism is an ugly word for you.
Socialism and communism may define the millennium. Forget Marxism, I am talking
about the government of Christ.
I sure found out something scary which came to a head during this shut down.
Obamacare is a tax imposed on the American people under the guise of health
insurance. It went through Congress as a tax and that's why Obama was so
adamant that it was funded. That's why the expensive insurance premiums
(Affordable Health care, my foot) and the fines for employers and people who
choose not to participate. I am proud of the House for sticking to their
principles. I sure hope they don't give in to the greed of this
Good for you, Autumn! It gives me hope for the survival of our once great
republic that good people like Senators Lee and Cruz are standing strong against
the massive opposition of the Socialist Left, who are determined to destroy
America.Neither the President nor the Senate have the authority to
force funding of this Socialized Medicine plan being forced upon us against our
will. Only the House decides how and where our tax dollars are spent!We should be encouraging them to keep fighting against implementation of the
Affordable Care Act... regardless of how long the federal government must remain
shut down. This is a VERY GOOD reason to do it. And I applaud these Patriotic
Senators wholeheartedly.Almost everyone I have talked to here in
Utah feels the same way. And so I also question how they came up with these
numbers.Captain Jim Green
Senators Cruz and Lee are Patriots just like our Founders who understood well
and fought for proper principles of governance. They are heroes in my view and I
support them wholly! We must do battle against the evils of Socialism which will
destroy our once great republic faster than just about anything else.And for Baccus0902... No, the Savior would "not" approve of a Marxist
plan to provide something for some at the expense of all others whose tax
dollars are confiscated by force. Charity is to be done only by individuals
voluntarily... never through mandatory taxation of the government! It's the
difference between good & evil.Therein lies the difference
between Bleeding-heart Liberals, who are wrong, and Patriotic Conservatives, who
are right. One system works, is fair, and sustainable, the other always
fails.The Socialist programs of Social Security, Medicaid, and
Medicare are all bankrupt with well over "120 Trillion Dollars" of
unfunded obligations. And the Leftists think we can somehow now afford to add a
Socialist program that will dwarf these others in its astronomical cost.Only those who believe in the destruction of America could support the
Affordable Care Act! To survive we must abolish it!
Dan Jones calls folks they believes will give them a certain response. I have
participated in many of their polls but they didn't call me for this one.
Go figure, I am sure it is because of the responses I have given in other polls.
It is all a racquet and your reporting is biased. Where is
Matheson? I haven't heard anything from him. He doesn't represent
Utahans. He represents himself and flies under the radar. Why did you even
pull him into this article? I am sure only to help with his re-election
campaign. Get some integrity Ms. Roche.We should Stand For
Something. Matheson stands for nothing but his desire to be re-elected.The President and Senate's temper-tantrum could shut down some more
Veteran's Memorials and refuse to sign the bills the House is sending to
fund the government. Obamacare is a symbol of the Democrats passing legislation
only to say they did it, who cares how good or well thought out. Other polls
show 70% of Americans don't like Obamacare and Mike Lee represents that.
Wow, a politician who actually tries to represent his constituents.
@ProudUtahanI really enjoyed your comment.Please
continue to share your opinions with DN Readers.Thanks.
@gildasGreat suggestion!Republican MD's should heal
patients free of charge and voluntarily.We know evil Democratic
MD's would never do this.Well...maybe they might...if the
Republican MD's would show them by example...Who knows?
Christ's view of healthcare:Christ healed the sick free of
charge and voluntarily. So did his disciples.He never forced anyone to be
Re:JeromefromLaytonIf you are covered by a plan that existed March
23, 2010, your plan may be "grandfathered." You may not get some new
rights and protections that other plans offer.Here's a quick look at
the consumer protections that do and don't apply to grandfathered plans:All health plans must:End lifetime limits on coverageEnd arbitrary cancellations of health coverageCover adult children up to
age 26Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short,
easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costsHold insurance
companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative
costs and bonuses.Grandfathered plans DON'T have to:Cover preventive care for freeGuarantee your right to appealProtect your choice of doctors and access to emergency careBe held
accountable through Rate Review for excessive premium increasesIn
addition to the above, grandfathered INDIVIDUAL health insurance plans (the kind
you buy yourself, not the kind you get from an employer) don't have to:End yearly limits on coverageCover you if you have a pre-existing
Their is a Video on U tube, from a talk show, they went out on the side walk and
talked to the people of Los Angeles. The question was: Do you prefer the
affordable care act or Obama care act? 100% liked the affordable care act
because it gave American's a choice and options.None of them liked
the Obama care act because it forced the public into something they did not
want. These people were inbaresed when they were told they were the same thing.
This is how the American public (who has a short memory) form their opinion now
days by the media, who is very liberal and for the president. last election
Obama swore he would not raise taxes on the middle or low income people. HE
DID.@ Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA "@ Autumn: Do you think Christ would
be against providing Health Care to all Americans?" Answer: not the way
this is being provided, we already have Medicaid and other programs for the
truly needy. There are those who would rather have their toys than insurance
(there are programs that help them to when they need) Jesus Christ taught agency
and love, not force and intimidation.
The pie charts could be interpreted several ways due to the huge "fence
sitting" group (41% Both equally to blame). Wait until that 56% get their
"sticker shock" at the exchange. I know of one person who will find out
that his health plan will have to be replaced because the employer's plan
is not in compliance with the ACA. So, the reasonably priced high deductible
plan goes away and now he will get coverage for a pelvic exam, among other
The House has sent between three and four dozen bills to do something about
Obama "Care" that have died in the Senate the same way Illinois Senator
Obama voted to treat abortion survivors. Finally, the House got some leverage
(the Continuing Resolution) to force Senators to "cowboy up" and
actually vote on the thing. Hanging tough is running about six to one among
those I know, most of us on Furlough status. This "survey" is part of
the campaign to split the Republicans in order to get a CR including Obamantion
out of the House. There is no such thing as a "clean" CR, especially
this infected one.By the way, I recently saw a letter from a
person's employer informing him that his current health plan did not
conform to the ACA and that he had to make some choices. When I checked with the
UTAH Insurance Commission, I found that choice is Hobson's. (See Canterbury
"Congress, however, has failed to address the worst excesses in the federal
budget -- the bloated, highly wasteful military budget. More than half of
federal discretionary spending now goes to the military budget. Including all the extra expenditures for various unlawful overseas military
exploits, the U.S. defense budget for 2013 is estimated to be around $716
billion (not counting defense expenses in other civilian departments.) To strike
a comparison,China, the next biggest military spender, has a budget of $106
billion as reported by their government. Remarkably, you can add the military
budgets of the next ten largest spending countries and still not match the
U.S.'s astronomical military budget -- which is fully half of the U.S.
government's entire operating budget, post Soviet Union, no less!Which leads us the most important question -- where do all these billions of
dollars go? The GAO every year declares the Pentagon budget to be
"un-auditable." The GAO website lists the DOD financial management as
"High Risk", reporting that: "Significant financial and related
business management systems and control weaknesses have adversely affected
DOD's ability to control costs; ensure basic accountability; anticipate
future costs......"(Ralph Nader 10/4/13)
Wow. The hate and the ignorance here about Obamacare is appalling. I have
spent the last 5 years living and working in the US (I'm a Canadian), in
the health insurance industry, in Medicaid, and I'm up to my elbows in
Obamacare. And you know what? IT'S WORKING. It is NOT the boogeyman so
many commenters here think it is. I don't know what you've been
listening to (although I can guess), but despite its faults, the Affordable Care
Act has already gone a long way to making healthcare more affordable for
EVERYONE, even those who already have decent health insurance. And now, lots of
uninsured people can get affordable insurance through the exchanges, which means
that they can get minor problems fixed at a doctor's office, rather than
wait until they become big ER problems that WE all have to pay for when they
can't pay. 99% of the things I've read here in the comments about
Obamacare are dead, dead wrong. "If a nation expects to be ignorant and
free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will
be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.
The damage that will be done to our country by the Unaffordable Care Act will
far outweigh the short term damage by a minimal shutdown of the government.
Obamacare does nothing of the things it proposed to do and it costs far exceed
the proposed costs. It is already causing more damage than the shutdown is
causing. If anyone is really concerned about the innocent people who are being
hurt then urge the Senators to pass the bills from Congress to fund the
government. Urge the President to quit being so spiteful. Then lets get down to
dealing w the monstrous disaster that is Obamacare.
then the utah citizens are supporting obama's high priced deals that
destroy our country. i am supporting the shut down. some need to make a stance
and be firm. obama is not to be believed.
I heard at coffee this morning that if the TeaPublican hostage taking works and
obamacare is defunded, that there is already a TeaPublican group that wants to
hold the government hostage until all government taxpayer subsidies are
eliminated. Yup, either eliminate all subsidies going to Utah and other States
or the government will stay shut down! I know the majority of taxpayers will
support that.....so I think you people in Utah and others better start preparing
for the future!
Re:rvalens2Sorry.You are correct. If Idaho had accepted
federal help and expanded Medicaid as other states have, you would qualify for
substantial subsidies. Because your income is so low, most likely you will not
be required to pay the fee/tax imposed on those who choose to not buy health
insurance. I would suggest you contact your states legislators to
let them know how you feel.
I can't believe there is such a high demand for a program that will destroy
our America. I hope these kinds of people don't get too comfortable with
their new health insurance, because we will be taking it from them when we
TeaPublicans take back our America in 2014 and 2016! Just a fact of life folks.
So you better prepare for it!
Of all places, I just can't believe that Utahn's are so dependent upon
federal government for their existence. FYI, The less government the better. The
government shut down is well worth getting rid of Obama's communist medical
I never thought I'd see the day when self-sufficient Utahans would be so
poorly informed as to think defeat Obamacare wasn't worth the fight. It is
a sad day when the independence of members of the LDS faith is no longer a
dominant force in the once great state of Utah.
The Bombardier Beetle has an amazing weapon. But I saw a video of it use it when
it was already encased in the spider's wrapping and therefore only hurting
itself.If not now, when do we stand up?
@Baccus0902"ACA is about health and dignity for all. Christ
would approve." -Baccus0902Yes, Christ would want health care
and dignity for all, he just wouldn't force the poor and indigent to have
to pay for it at the point of a gun.Here in Idaho, there will still
be an estimated 70,000 poor people which ObamaCare does not subsidize and whom
the Federal government will still demand pay for their own health care
insurance, even though they live below the Federal government's poverty
line.How in the world is an individual who makes less than $11,490*
per year going to pay for health insurance that will cost them over $300.00 per
month? (single male over 50) They simply cannot afford do it. Medicaid was not
expanded in Idaho and does not cover the working poor. To those would say
it's the State of Idaho's fault for not covering them, I say baloney
... the ACA, if enacted properly, should have covered everyone who does not meet
their state's Medicaid guidelines. As a result, there are still going to be
millions of people in the U.S. who do not have health insurance.*(2013 Federal poverty line)
It is now crossing the mind of many that Lee and Cruz know this is the grand
finale of both of their political careers.Because of this, they will try
to destroy any thing that is beneficial. As they continue their idiotic and
unpatriotic behavior, these two hope to drag as many other politicians and
voters into their web of destruction as possible.
I am a Republican, and while I feel that many issues still need to be addressed
and fixed in the ACA, I am 100% against the shutdown of the government over it.
It should be a separate issue and the only people getting hurt once again, are
the "little guys." I am tired of the Tea Party and I am tired of the
extreme liberals in our Congress. No one wants to compromise! For those that
think the Dan Jones Poll isn't accurate, I absolutely believe it is because
all of my family and friends that are Republican are completely against the
This problem is 100% caused by the Republicans in general and the Tea Party in
particular. Those miscreants are going to pay a price for causing this come
election time. It is a last-ditch effort to derail health care which is the
law of the land. Republican are the bane of America.
Fewer Americans now describe themselves as supporters of the Tea Party movement
than did at the height of the movement in 2010, or even at the start of 2012.
Today's 22% support nearly matches the record low found two years ago.(Gallup Sept 2013)"The unfavorable numbers for the tea party
movement are also at an all-time high in CNN surveys.Thirty-one percent
say they see the tea party in a favorable light, while 54% hold an unfavorable
view of the of the movement now in its fifth year."(CNN Sept 2013)The nationwide survey found that 72% disapprove forcing a shutdown as a
means of halting implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Just 25% approved.
Independent voters (76 percent) give a thumbs-down to the shutdown. Even those
who don’t like the Affordable Care Act — popularly labeled Obamacare
— disapproved of the shutdown by a 59-38 percent margin.(CBS Oct
There is a reason the article doesn't explain how the poll was taken. I
have been polled before and its obvious how they were slanting it then. It can
be slanted anyway the little progresives wimps at the paper want. I have no
doubt they only polled Utah residents in SLC area who never have been and never
will be Utahns.
@ Sammyg 9:08Baccus0902"@ Autumn: Do you think
Christ would be against providing Health Care to all Americans?"Sammyg : "Do you think Christ supports abortion?"A long
time ago I decided that I would support life and I do. That is why I don't
believe in capital punishment. However, I hear of many women that face abortion
to save their own life, others because their pregnancy is product of rape and or
incest. Sometimes the fetus/baby may be growing with a horrible disease. You may
be bringing a baby to a world that is cruel and poor in material, social and
spiritual conditions i.e. Somalia, or worse condition here in the U.S.A.I answering your question: I believe that Christ gives us our free
agency, education and intelligence to make difficult decisions. That
is why I think ACA is consistent with Christianity. All citizens should enjoy
health care and have their free choice. ACA is about health and
dignity for all. Christ would approve.
It looks like the citizens of the State of Utah have more sense that their
elected officials. You don't shut down the government to make a political
statement on one issue. I'm a registered Republican who doesn't
recognize the party anymore. Its time to return power to Republicans who
understand their first job is to govern, not play political games with
people's lives and the country's safety. If we don't show people
like Lee and Cruz the door, Republicans will quickly become irrelevant.
Re: "Do you think Christ supports abortion?""Wherefore
if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off ... And if thine eye offend
thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into
life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell
fire."Likewise, it is better for the mother's salvation
that she pluck out her fetus rather than bear a child and mistreat it because it
isn't wanted. Better, too, for the child, which is not only spared earthly
suffering, but as we know, "all children who die before they arrive at the
years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven," which
is the ultimate goal.A General Authority once said: "Sometimes I
have thought that probably some of these choice spirits did not need the
experience here in mortality like other children, and that is why the Lord has
seen fit to call them home."You can't thwart God. Since He
knows who will have an abortion, naturally He places those spirits who do not
need mortal experience in vessels from which they will soon return to Him.
Polls are always misleading and biased. You can never get the truth out of them
because it depends on what kind of people respond to them. Only the gullible
There's a long established process for passing a budget and for repealing
legislation. Republicans have refused to "negotiate" with
Democrats on a budget since March 2013, despite repeated requests from the
Senate Budget Committee. The Senate however, put the House budget measure up to
a full vote and it didn't pass. The House alone can't
repeal legislation. The majority control of our federal governing body is held
by the Democrats. These T-Party appeasing legislators are a very
dangerous, reckless and extremist group and they are bringing down the good
faith and credit the world had in the U.S. They are also responsible for the
first downgrade in history of the credit rating of the U.S. A
Mormon from UT is front and center of this group.
I didn't support Senator Lee when he ran for office, but I support him now.
The results of this poll are hilarious but predictable. Of course most Utahns
will not blame the Republicans in the House for this circus. But that
doesn't change the facts. If they had not insisted on tying a totally
unrelated piece of legislation (which they knew would go nowhere) to a
pedestrian funding bill, the government would not have shut down. But apparently neither our Congressional representatives nor the majority of
Utahns understand the dangerous game they are playing. This game of hostage
taking and ransom demands opens the gate for using this tactic on every sort of
legislation imaginable in the future, which would spell the end of
constitutional government. Remember, GOP and Utah, what goes around comes
around. You think there will not be long-term ramifications to this stunt?
Fortunately, the rest of the country is not so gullible as Utah.
Heh, half of you all must still think Romney was leading going into election
night (all that polling data that led to Nate Silver getting all but maybe
Florida, which turned out to be the closest state, right ended up pointing to
the answer anyway).
In Graduate school for my MPA degree, I took a year long course in Qualitative
and quantitative data and statistical analysis. (yawn, but needed) I learned the
difference that answering big questions comes from good polling, that MUST
include at the minimum, 1,500 random samples to be accurate. A poll of 410
people, who live in unknown areas, do not represent the mood of any group,
except the 410 people who were polled. I think a better study would result in
different numbers. I blame the GOP leader for the shut down because he will not
bring a the budget to be voted on straight up or down. It would pass if the
teapublicans would get up off the floor where they are in tantrums.
I checked with all of my sources...Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean
Hannity, Mark Levin, Drudge, right-wing ultra-conservative blogs...Not one of these gold standard trusted sources of information agree with this
article/poll.As far as polling goes...I like the results of polls
that confirm my preconceived bias.My bias in this case?After carefully listening to all the sources listed above, I have come to the
conclusion voiced by the Republican Rep. from South Carolina MD Kris Crawford
and echoed by the behavior of all Republicans..."...It is good
politics to oppose the black guy in The White House especially for the
The Tea Party put their red line in the sand and though a small part of the
Republican Party by elected officials have pushed their agenda to every
Republican house member by calling those Republicans unfaithful to their party.
The Tea Party is not a party and their media process is almost as bad as the
President's. Chaffetz and Lee are not the state of Utah but they were
elected to represent Utahns and not their own biased views.The media
loves to use the Tea Party against the Republicans in a way that will destroy
the Republican party's credibility, if they still have any.Split and Divide the right and left flanks has been going on since Cain and
Abel to the demise of part of them or both. Ishmael and Isaac are still out
there for the near future.
The biggest tragedy in all of this is that the Americans that need Affordable
Health Care are so confused at this point. It is sad. I refuse to talk to
anyone about "Obamacare" (a term I believe Republicans came up with to
help voters not like the plan. I will only discuss "Affordable Health
Care" and I refer them to the government site to get answers to their
Obamacare is akin to the money changers thrown out of the temple by
Christ.....he never once said overtax the people and make all people suffer
while the politicians play golf and trip around the world on the backs of the
faithful! He instead encouraged us to take care of the poor through charity and
Mike Lee panders by saying Utahns have an "extra gene of patriotism"What about religious edicts saying we are subject to "kings,
presidents, magistrates, and rulers"???I think the extra gene
theory is ludicrous and absolutely patently false! And many, many Utahns could
use some straightening out with regards to what their religion teaches.
To sum it up:A majority of DN commenters and their associates
support shutting down the govt to delay or defund Obamacare. Perhaps Democrats should do the same in order to get expanded gun background
checks? Afterall, a majority of Americans support expanded background
This poll shows two things:1- Low information voters (and poll
respondents) are easily misled bu carefully crafted poll questions.2- The media is overwhelmingly in the Obama camp and their propaganda message
in favor of Obamacare, and blaming the Republicans is getting through.Anyone who understands the dire financial condition our country is in, and the
ramifications for future spending as well as our individual health care cost,
quality and availability recognizes that Obamacare must be stopped, or at least
delayed until it can be repealed.The fight over Obamacare is mild
compared to the real battle over raising the debt limit and you can be sure that
once again Republicans will be portrayed as mean, evil, greedy, uncaring jerks
for wanting to cut ANYTHING, despite the obvious fact that we are long past the
point of being unsustainable for ALL of our entitlement programs."The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other
people's money to spend."
Anyone else feel politically hopeless after reading this article? If
UTAH'S majority does not see how Obamacare is a violation of practically
EVERY principle and virtue that our pilgrim and patriot ancestors sacrificed
everything for, then what will!? And if UTAH doesn't see fighting for
principle in this moment - despite the cost - than how will we EVER fight for
for principle again?Didn't I read 'somewhere' that
when the "voice of the people" i.e.majority "doth choose
iniquity" (Obamacare?) then pretty much 'God help us?' God help us.
Baccus0902"@ Autumn: Do you think Christ would be against
providing Health Care to all Americans?"Do you think Christ
"vile saboteurs"Yeah right. When libs begin using terms such
as the above to define those that are executing their constitutional right in
the House and Senate we begin to understand what is really happening.
No methodology, no credibility. National polling has consistently shown that a
majority of Americans (Dems & GOP) don't want Obamacare, never did -
everyone knows the outcome of socialized medicine - poor healthcare for all,
rationing and fewer doc and medical options. It's a bad law, should never
have passed but it did through D.C. procedural trickery and coercion, which was
very unfortunate. I applaud Senators Mike Lee and Ted Cruz (and many others in
Senate and Congress) for finally standing up for the majority of Americans and
our future freedom when polls and media won't.
When we chose Mike Lee over Bailout Bob, it was because we knew he would stand
for principle, whether or not it was always popular. I'm grateful that he
is willing to take a stand. Obamacare is a bigger disaster than any temporary
shutdown of non-essential government services.(I'm always
suspicious of news stories which report the results of a poll without reporting
also the wording of the questions. This is the Internet age. Surely the
poll's internals could be posted, and a link provided from the story. I
wonder if the comment moderator would pass this suggestion along to the editor.)
The ACA, ie. Obamacare, is the law. It was approved by the House and the
Senate, both of whom were voted in by their states and districts. It was signed
by the president and vetted by the Supreme Court. It survived about 49 attempts
to repeal it. To say it was 'shoved down the throat' of the American
people is certainly not true.The Republicans will now hurt anyone
they must to score political points with this stunt. They can't stop the
ACA. It's already funded and implemented.
Anyone else feel politically hopeless after reading this article? If
UTAH'S majority does not see how Obamacare is a violation of practically
EVERY principle and virtue that our pilgrim and patriot ancestors sacrificed
everything for, then what will!? And if UTAH doesn't see fighting for
principle in this moment - despite the cost - than how will we EVER standfight
for something again?Didn't I read 'somewhere' that
when the "voice of the people" i.e.majority "doth choose
iniquity" (Obamacare?) then pretty much 'God help us?' God help us.Pragmatism and comprimise can never be built upon the
foundational principle of 'standing for right - even when no one else will.
was sacrificed everything for very state that claimed to embrace principles
of s to embr
Republicans aren't shutting down the government. They want things fixed
first. They believe if Obama, congress and big corporations get exemptions then
why should the people have to have it.Dems want to only inflict pain by shutting
down the vet memorial and the parking lot at Mount Vernon even though it's
privately owned. It takes more effort and money to put up barriers. They are
playing politics and it's cruel. Hurting the people so they will blame it
on Republicans. Reid doesn't even care about a little girl getting funding
for cancer treatment as long as he can win this fight.. And no I'm not
Republican. I'm proud of Lee. Whoever voted for Hatch or Matheson should be
ashamed. Neither has a backbone and are both only there for power. Whey else
would Hatch stay so long? He rarely has stood up for the people. Lee has got so
much hate from both Dems and Rep but continues to fight to help us get better
health care.Hatch ran on doing all he could to fight Obamacare but again that
was just to get reelected.
I love it... unless a poll says "everybody thinks like I do", well the
poll must be suspect.Have you ever considered that you hang out with
people of a like mind - and that those who dont' agree with your view
point, just don't express that to you directly?Nope... must be
bad polling data.... because your way of thinking is the only valid way of
think. Hence the need for only one political party in Utah... no debate. No
discussion. No different life experiences. Everyone is the same....Good grief...
It is worth far more than shutting down the government. Here is what is
at stake: Obama Care gives the executive branch far more than life and death
control over every American, it gives them full access to 100% of your private
information.All your financial records.All your medical records.NSA already maintains a massive database on all of your electronic
communications. They know who you are communicating with and what your are
saying.How does Obama and his supporters use private information?Obama won the Democrat Primary for State Senate in Illinois because
David Axlerod got his old employer, the Chicago Tribune, to to unseal the
divorce records of his opponent. The incumbent dropped out of the race.How did Obama win a seat in the US Senate? The LA Times got a California judge
to unseal the divorce records of his opponent, Jack Ryan and published such
salacious material that Jack could not recover.This private
information will be used for opposition research. Anyone who does or says
anything this crowd does not like will be destroyed. Obama is using the IRS to
target the TEA Party.He will use it against you.
It is heartening to see that, even in a Dan Jones poll, that two thirds of the
people of this state do NOT disapprove of Mike Lee; a majority that would be
coveted by most congressmen. Even a small majority do NOT disapprove of the Tea
Party; alleluia! The negative spin of the article is noted.Utahns
have not all, and not always, been courageous defenders of freedom and the
Constitution but I believe the present crisis is seen as a last stand for
freedom; maybe it is!
Anyone who believes it is even feasible to "eliminate" the Affordable
Care Act through this shutdown has been snookered by the Republican Party.
I'm not being facetious, it literally is not possible. What the
Republicans are doing is known as grandstanding; it is not problem-solving. So, if they'll lie to you about the premise for shutting down our
government, what else are they willing to lie to you about?
Americans are getting what we deserve. We say we want things (a balanced
budget, no Obamacare, less government regulation) but we fail to support those
politicians actually brave enough to fight for those things. All it takes is a
couple of negative stories from liberal journalists and the people are willing
to throw people like Mike Lee under the bus. We are $17, 000, 000, 000, 000 in
debt! 40 cents of every dollar the government spends is borrowed. But hey, we
can get an Obama phone, green energy companies can hundreds of millions in
government loans before they collapse and we can all be forced to buy insurance
with "benefits" I don't want at inflated prices from companies that
donated millions to Obama.Yes, I guess Mike Lee, Ted Cruz and Rand
Paul are radicals. By todays standards, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and
Ben Frankin are extremists. I am thankful that we have a few radicals who are
willing to risk their political futures to try and protect our liberty and
prevent a complete fiscal meltdown. Can we send Orrin Hatch to Texas for Ted
Cruz and a future draft pick?
Truth: Dan Jones is a widely respected and highly ethical pollster. Talk to
the citizens in Southern Utah whose living depends on tourism to our national
parks and ask them who they feel about the mess congress has created. The real
train wreck is the tea party. I predict Lee will go down in flames next
election. The irony of all this is the ACA was proposed by conservative
republicans and implemented by Romney in MA. The ACA was the topic of
discussion at work. While everyone opposed it all present liked parts of it.
The republicans are fighting battles they cannot win. Republicans unwillingness
to face reality is hurting our economy.
A poll of 410 people is hardly worth mention! And is certainly NOT
VALID as a baseline for anything meaningful!Rewrite this..."news
article"....when the number of people polled reaches 10,000.Then
there might be some value to the "reporting" on this subject!
Outside the U.S. people cannot understand this insanity. A law has been approved
through a democratic process, upheld by the Supreme court, confirmed by the
reelection of Obama, and then a minority can get its party to try to block the
implementation of the law through unfunding and is willing to shutdown the
government over it? Dictators are laughing: that is American democracy?
The continued obstruction by House Speaker Boehner to bring the CRA to the floor
for a vote is simply failed leadership. During the normal Legislative session
the House voted no less than 50 times to abolish ACA, every one failed even with
a Republican majority.A Continuing Resolution is simply a tool to continue
funding the Govt. at the previous year levels. It is not a new annual budget,
something the Congress has not done in years. Like it or not, the ACA is the
law, confirmed by the Supreme Court and this tactic is shameful. Work out the
differences as the FY14 budget is developed and approved.I am a Moderate
Republican and see nothing of value to be gained in this childish effort.
Backers $$ of Sen Cruz are now attacking other Republicans who do not agree in
ads. A blog I read on another site listed a score or more of past Republican
legislation not popular with the Dems that is now open to repeal when the Dems
take the House and strengthen their position in the Senate.Be careful what
you ask for, you may not like it.
This fight is more about over reach of government and out of control spending.
What the republicans are trying to do is turn essential government programs back
on without funding things that we don't need. It is an awesome way to show
the US public how to cut the budget! Go Senator Lee and Thank you.
"Utahns expect effectiveness and efficiency and results out of their
government, not ideological tantrums."I guess this means that
Utahans are very happy with their government then? Efficiency? Yep, no waste,
fraud and abuse there! I think what the poll says is that many
Utahans are not willing to fight for freedom and liberty. They are very
pragmatic about the government being trillions of dollars in debt and borrowing
40% of all we spend and paying huge interest on that borrowing? About jobs
disappearing? Being pragmatic though, if one does not recognize
that freedom and liberty are disappearing, then it makes little difference now.
Later though, their tune will change!Fully fund Obamacare - make
everyone participate - do away with all exemption, exceptions and exclusions,
including the President, Michele, unions, churches and congress. Make it
effective immediately with no delays - start it today. No waiting until after
the 2014 elections.See if the people still believe it will bring
costs down and improve healthcare. Then see if the Democrats and the RINOs will
be willing to continue funding it or perhaps they will want to repeal it? Maybe
then they will want some "Change"?Tax credits means we pay
They didn't call me. The poll question should have read, "Do you shut
the government down for a few days to get rid of Obamacare or do you let
Obamacare shut down the economy and the government as we know it
I'll believe that next election cycle, and I won't be holding my
breath. The first comment on this page is more believable about the Utah
mind-set.Thrilled with Mike Lee...really? really? So sad it's
Could it be Autumn that you and I tend to spend time around those who share our
views? The Jones organization is a polling organization with a stellar
reputation for conducting scientifically valid polls.To another
issue - I take exception to Evans' statements that Utahns simply don't
understand that Democrats turned down bills to fund the government or we would
have responded differently to the polls. It is just that kind of dishonest
patronizing ("If only you knew what we know, you would understand that we
are right and you are unintentionally wrong" attitude that bothers me. I
read multiple papers daily including those on the left and right as well as one
or more international newspapers. To suggest that I am somehow uninformed if I
don't agree with your position is the height of arrogance. I firmly
disagree with Mike Lee and Jason Chaffetz on their handling of this issue. I am
informed. And, I vote.
If this article is based on true facts.Then, there is hope for Utah.If
Utahns are really pragmatics as the article indicates, hopefully they will
analyze their political,social, economical decisions before talking and
voting.What I usually perceive from this paper is a bias against the
Democratic Party. I think may LDS members feel that the Republican party is the
Church's party ( I know, I know, the church indicates that the brethren
don't take sides).Most of the country do blames the Republican
party, not because of their ideology but for being spineless and allowed
themselves to be taken hostage by the extremist of the Tea Party.@
Autumn: Do you think Christ would be against providing Health Care to all
America's future looks very dark when a controlling interest in the
government is out to take away the people's healthcare, food stamps,
nutrition, clean air and water, and now livelihoods -- all to preserve the
inequalities of society's status quo.
Hmmm... Let's try to guess what demographic of people were asked the poll
questions. Not too tough to figure this out. Downtown Salt Lake City or maybe
Park City perhaps? Doubtful there were many conservatives polled in this one.
And the poll question? "The evil Republicans want to kill babies and old
people with this shutdown. Do you fell it should continue?" We are not
falling for these polls anymore.
It bothers me that news media can't even report this event correctly.
Congress voted for a budget that funded everything except the ACA. That was NOT
de-funded but only delayed for a year (just as our President did with the
employer mandate).The Republicans are not the ones shutting down the
government. They funded everything the Dems. wanted except that one item. The
Dems then shut it down by refusing to vote "Yay" or even come to the
table to negotiate. If you want to cast blame blame the Dems for the shutdown.
I'm glad to hear that there are some sane people in Utah and that they
recognize the insane behavior of the Tea Party, mainly John Boehner.
I agree with the poll. Obamacare isn't a reason to shut down the
government. The fact that the govenment is in this fantasy that we can borrow
and borrown so that we can stimulate and stimulate the economy so that we can
make it boom and generate extra tax revenue in the future that we will use to
pay off the debt, at some point in the future. (Jimmy Carter talked about that
in 1976). It isn't realistic and the shutdown may be the means to shock
everyone into realizing that the status quo is unsustainable. We might get a
paradigm shift.If we don't do it now, in a few years our
lenders will get wise then they will pull the plug. The sooner the better.Obama's position is that he won't negotiate and the
Republicans fallback position is #1 of debt increase for every $1 dollar.
That's reasonable. The Obamacare stuff is diluting their message however,
This was a very slanted article which clearly articulates the Obama talking
points of destroying the tea party. It shows that even in Utah journalists push
liberal causes. My friends,associates and people I talk to view Obamacare as the
most partisan bill perhaps ever written , horrible legislation. The poll
doen't factor in the media's total bias of blaming Republicans for the
shutdown which was in fact Harry Reids decision to not conference and solve the
impasse. Obama and democrats wanted the shutdown for political advantage,
republicans wanted to keep the government running but wanted some compromise to
help our economy and create jobs. The tactic of blasting Lee and praising
Matheson is right out of Obama's playbook. Matheson voted with republicans
on reopening the government. Democrats are arrogant,my way or the highway party,
republicans are willing to compromise and conference.
Eh, everyone knows Utah is just a liberal bastion. Oh right...
I also disagree with the results of the poll, as just about everybody I talk to
realize that it is time to take a stand. The pollsters must have worded the
questions in order to get a result.
I agree with @Autumn Cook, let's have the poll to see.I
can't believe that if Utahns are supposedly that "pragmatic," they
wouldn't want to fight to end Obamacare. I also find it to be inconsistent
the statement that "Utahns want the government to run efficiently," yet
they would not want to fight to end Obamacare, something that will prove to be
one of the worst efficiency nightmares that our government has tried to shove
down our throats.
I know that I was never asked and I am glad that we are fighting right now for
our rights. Thank you Mike Lee and others who are in there finally showing that
we will not be quite when we feel that something is as wrong as it is with
Obamacare. It is all wrong and it is going to cost this Nation dearly if we do
not do something about it now.
Well Autumn, maybe you should get out of your echo chamber then. If this
shutdown continues, the harm to individual lives, the economy, our national
security, and national reputation will secure Lee's place in History among
our nations most vile saboteurs. The fascinating and very sad thing is that you
can't even see that you have already lost.
As one who works for the government, specifically a full-time National
Guardsman, I believe it is worth the fight to shutdown the government to get rid
of Obamacare. If we don't fight it now, we will pay for it, big time,
latter. Even the poor will pay in the end...
@Autumn cook.... This is just another dan jones poll.....jones is a democrat and
his wife is active in liberal politics as well! Imyawn whenever I see one of
these polls.....they never ask what they claim you answered,
Can you provide a link to the poll sample, methodology and question wording?
Most of the Utahns I've talked to DO believe stopping Obamacare is worth
shutting the government down over, and we're thrilled to have a fighter in
the Senate in the form of Sen. Lee.