To "Bob K" what offers to negociate have there been? Obama and most of
the senior Democrat leadership has made it very clear that Obama does not want
to negociate.The bigger question is why shouldn't we reconsider
the ACA? It has already caused insurance prices to jump by 25% or more. It
only gets coverage to 15 million of hte 45 million uninsured. It's
requirements are so bad that many large businesses, unions, and government
agencies have had to get exemptions. The whole process has been rushed to the
point that Obama had to delay implementation for a large portion that applied to
businesses.Overall, the ACA has been a failure and has caused more
problems than it solved. Why shouldn't we debate how to fix or replace the
mess it has caused?
RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTOk liberals explain why the Tea Party is
to blame and the Democrats are not? They are both standing up for what they
believe in (regardless if you agree with either group), and are willing to fight
for what they believe.The hypocrisy of the left is on display here
as the liberals refuse to even negociate or engage in civil discourse over the
issue, while complaining that the Tea Party won't just cave in and do what
the liberals want......NO -- the TPs are trying to extort the
President to change a law that has been on the books for 4 years. There were
many offers to negotiate, but all the TP do is make a mockery of the House: no
jobs bill, no infrastructure repair, no this, no that, no nothing, except for 4
dozen votes for a repeal that the Senate will never pass.If the Dems
give in to the blatant bullying, the Country is lost, as the system of
Government will be defeated.Sometimes your side loses, and you move
Ok liberals explain why the Tea Party is to blame and the Democrats are not?
They are both standing up for what they believe in (regardless if you agree with
either group), and are willing to fight for what they believe.The
hypocrisy of the left is on display here as the liberals refuse to even
negociate or engage in civil discourse over the issue, while complaining that
the Tea Party won't just cave in and do what the liberals want.
This tea party blame Obama spin is like a guy who tried to kill his parents and
then complains when they cut him out of their will. Herbert needs to quit
worrying about blame game over the shutdown, and get with the program to fund
the Utah Medicaid expansion or there will be about 300000 people who will still
not have health coverage even after the ACA succeeds.And what is
wrong with the Utah's exchange web sites? Too much public interest, or a
perhaps a little right wing sabotage?
Is our Republican Conservative Leader and radioi host Glen Beck RIGHT? He
warned the closing of the WW II Memorial by that guy Obama was a sign that Obama
could be preparing for mass killings! He said it could be proof of a communist
revolution that could end with millions dead! And then Rick Joyner, a leading
Republican Christian leader, said "there is no way our Republic can last
much longer. That there are forces right now that are seeking to undermine and
to destroy the Republic. We're headed for serious tyranny....I appeal to
the Lord: "Please don't let us be totally destroyed, please raise up
those who will save us! I believe our only hope is martial law" Oh no, is
this why Obama wanted to take away all of our guns? We TeaPublicans WILL take
back our America in 2014 and 2016....wnd we will take back this Obama Communist
movement too! "P n P" in 2016.....Perry and Palin...yes folks, it IS
going to happen!
@ bandersen, the business about excluding government leaders from the ACA (not
the AFA) is not correct. Do a little research on the issue (and not right
wing/conservative advocacy sites).
Both parties quit representing 'the people' a long time ago. What
they represent is themselves and the corrupt money flowing into their coffers.
Of course, the question has to be asked of the Democrats, who are are so ardent
about the Republicans, or the Tea party, destroying the Constitution is this:
How does one have faith in a leader of our country who demands whomever he wants
to obey the law of the land (AFA), but excludes himself and others (Big
business) from obeying it. This is as close to a dictator as you could get
without a prison sentence for political views (which is just around the corner,
if it isn't here already). I don't see anyone calling
'Marxist' philosophy 'hate speech', but how many 'old
men' and others out there would put a Tea party member in jail for just
expressing their viewpoint. If someone expresses the viewpoint of retaining
limited government, is it 'hate speech'? Nah, grow up Americans. You
have only yourself to blame, whether Democrat or Republican. Bury them both by
looking at yourself.
The Governor is dead wrong on this. I cannot believe he, as a Governor, does
not recognize the precedent of a fringe element holding the budget and the
economy hostage because they don't like a previously enacted law rather
than a more orderly, rational approach such as pursuing a bona fide legislative
agenda. In the future, will extreme elements from either the left or the right
hold our nation hostage in order to get their way, even though they are in the
minority, and legislation that has already passed, been adjudicated, and
ratified by the voters? Is this the kind of country we want to live in? Even
those on the right should fear this outcome, because the tables could turn on
them if this effort prevails. Talk about undermining the Constitution (but
I've maintained for a long time that desptie their rhetoric, the greatest
threat to the nation will come from the right, not the left).
RainmanSyracuse, UTI blame them all! I agree that what the
Republicans are doing is stupid but the Democrats shoved this law down all our
throats when they had control of the house and senate. If they would have
negotiated a bi-partisan deal back then, the Republicans would have had some
skin in the game and we wouldn't be having this conversation....You forget that:A-- most of the bill was originally proposed by
republicans, even Romney used to like itB-- we all would be much better
off if Reagan or Nixon had handled this, but the rich interests that were
against it then are even stronger now.C-- I remember very clearly that the
President kept inviting republicans to put in suggestions and improvements, to
no avail.D-- in fairness, when republicans have control or when a
republican President nominates a Chief Justice who wants to get rid of popular
and fair laws, do the democrats have childish tantrums and cry foul?
@ JD Jones - Salt Lake City, UT - "What happened to Republicans respect for
the rule of law? ACA is now law, so whether or not you agree with you it, if you
shut down the government and hint that you won't raise the debt ceiling
unless you get your way, you can't say you also respect the rule of
law."Yeah, way to blame the Republicans. Simply say "they
don't respect the law".JD, Republicans/conservatives do
respect "law", but we have even MORE respect for WISDOM and COMMON
SENSE.If it were a "law" to jump off a cliff, would you do
it?Same thing applies here.Obamacare is a disaster and
will prove to be the "law" that broke the camel's back if it goes
through full force. Look at what Johnson's "Great Society"
legislations (Medicaid/Medicare/increased welfare) did to America. It
absolutely destroyed our work ethic and our public morality. Yes, destroyed it.
Those programs have morphed into unending government "feed me" programs
waaaaaay into the billions $$$ every year.....overbudget and broke, both
financially and morally."When injustice becomes law, resistance
becomes duty." -Thomas Jefferson
Governor Herbert is just chiming in with more partisan rhetoric. We
didn't have health care for millions of citizens. It has hurt our country
along with the citizens. The republicans had years to address the problem but
they never did and now that there's a law addressing it, they want to get
rid of it instead of fix it. Governor Herbert is not helping the
current standoff in Washington DC. He's just getting in line with all the
other Tea Party politicians and forgetting a huge segment of our population.
Re RainmanThe Republicans had every opportunity to participate in
the debates of Obamacare they didn't want the healthcare solution for the
American people, they were too busy looking after the interests of the upper
If the Republicans had offered the people an alternative plan to the ACA, then I
could see them having a leg to stand on. Instead this past year they have tried
to eliminate the whole law with nothing in return. Offer an alternative or try
to fix the parts of the ACA that are broken (and yes there are some bad parts to
this law). No wonder the population believes that the fringe elements have high
jacked the Republican party and trying to drive it over a cliff. The
Republicans will be the hurting come the next election especially if we continue
to get embarrassments like Mike Lee running for office.
Informed:Didn't the Senate pass a budget earlier this year? And
hasn't Boehner refused to go to conference on it? From what I understand,
if the house were allowed to vote on a clean CR it would pass and the whole
thing would be over. Why won't he allow the vote? The majority of house
Republicans appear to want to distance themselves from nuts like Chafetz and Lee
but are more afraid of primary challenges by the lunatic fringe than they are of
destroying the economy, which is just what Herbert proposed.
I can agree with Herbert's quote in the last sentence: "I think
there's a dearth of leadership in Washington, D.C." I think that
applies to both sides. I'm not so sure I agree with Mike
Lee's and the GOP tactics, in forcing a shutdown, and some of
Herbert's other quotes herein. (I didn't view Herbert's whole
statement, and sometimes news services, including the DesNews, can skew the
meaning of quotes...)
It genuinely doesn't matter how passionately conservatives feel about the
ACA. It's the law of the land, and will be implemented. And no, the
President hasn't 'unilaterally amended the law.' A couple of
minor provisions were delayed slightly because those participating weren't
quite ready. Don't blow that up into a constitutional crisis.
David says "as Obama has changed the law unilaterally a number of times
since it was passed."Wrong. The President HAS NOT (and CANNOT)
do that to any law.I believe Utah has a problem with education and
information of its citizens. Rather than going to the source for information,
they have some strange backchannel of "stuff" that they would rather
Exemptions?ANYONE who already has health insurance is
"exempted" from buying insurance under the Affordable Care Act!How
(I'll used the nice word) "uninformed" do you have to be, to not
figure that out for yourself.
I blame them all! I agree that what the Republicans are doing is stupid but the
Democrats shoved this law down all our throats when they had control of the
house and senate. If they would have negotiated a bi-partisan deal back then,
the Republicans would have had some skin in the game and we wouldn't be
having this conversation.
JD Jones: Glad to see you believe in the rule of law. Your President does
not...he unilaterally ignores or amends parts of Obamacare to suit himself and
his friends. He has no authority to change the Obamacare law! Can't you see
that? He and Holder also refuse to enforce other laws they do not like....so
don't tell me we should obey the obamacare law, when obama himself
doesn't.Furthermore, the Constitution provides for the House of
Representatives to authorize spending. It is within the law to revise what is
spent and/or restructure the debt spending. This is what government budgets are
meant to do. BTW, Reid has not allowed the Senate to propose a budget for
several years. How about his violation of law by refusing to do so? Spending
called for by obamacare is way too much and therefore the House should not go
along with this crazy addiction to spending and taking on more debt.
Gotta try to keep the Tea Party happy, eh? Governor Herbert, you may succeed in
that goal, but what about the majority of sane Utahns who are not drinkers of
"If people are that passionate about a piece of legislation they're
willing to go to that length, we ought to look at the legislation," Where
has the Governor been? The House does not practice the art of legislation nor
do they care. The House passed about 40 bills to eliminate the ACA but it went
no where because they do not have the votes to get it passed in the Senate, let
alone override a presidential veto. By the way, during the previous 40 bills
never once did the House try to negotiate a change or propose delays or other
modifications to the law...and now they are complaining that no one is willing
to play ball with them. They are the height of hypocrissy.
Democratic claims that Obamacare is law and is not to be revisited is
interesting, as Obama has changed the law unilaterally a number of times since
it was passed. If the law is not to be revisited, then why is it being modified
so often by Obama and the Democrats.I say revisit the law! Rewrite
what isn't working, isn't wise, and isn't good. Keep the good
parts of the ACA.But Obama, Reid and the Democrats who refuse to go
into conference over budget discrepancies are simply bullying Americans.
Engaging in compromise through conference between the House and Senate occurs
every year! Why not now? Because Democrats want to shut down the government
and try to blame it on Republicans. Its time for adults to lead in
DC. Send the children to timeout. We should start with Obama and Reid.
Gov. Herbert could have been one of the few state leaders that accepted the ACA,
and given everyone in Utah the opportunity to have Health Care. Now well be
thanking the Federal Government for implementing the law, not the governor.
Thanks for nothing, yet again, Gary!
Governor, please: we will have decades to amend this law, why hyperventilate
over it this week? It is law. And people may or may not sign up for it.
There is a lack of leadership in Utah if you are paying 13 million to the losing
bidder for a state contract and nobody knows about it, including yourself.
"[R}respect for the rule of law?"What about Obama's illegal
granting of exemptions and delays to his cronies, contrary to the existing
law?The Republican House is acting in full accordance with the
Constitution with regard to their power of the purse, and even though a program
is enacted in one year, that does not commit future Congresses to funding it, or
prevent them from prohibiting expenditures to carry out functions which exist in
law. (Example- Congress has explicitly prohibited the DOJ from acting on
federal expungement requests to restore gun rights for nearly 20 years.The House passed numerous bills authorizing full funding of individual
departments, and even everything but Obamacare. Harry Reid's petulant
rejection of these efforts to fund government operations make it a DEMOCRAT shut
down, no matter what the biased media or Democrats tell you.The
damage done by allowing Obamacare to be implemented far exceeds any harm from a
temporary suspension of non-essential federal government functions.
"Let's eliminate the burr under the saddle."By ensuring
that ALL Americans have health care? I'm with that, but I don't think
that's what Herbie meant.
Go ahead, tea party members. Throw your little whiny hissy fit. When
you're done, the country will know you for what you are: bullies who will
take the whole country hostage to get your way.The ACA was legally
enacted into law, it was verified to be constitutional by the Supreme Court,
Obama was re-elected in what was in large part a referendum on this law, and the
Senate was retained by the Democrats, again in affirmation of this law. These tea party folks are essentially saying: "Nice economy you got
there. Wouldn't it be a shame if something happened to it. You know I can
protect it for a price..."The Democrats (Obama included) are
exactly right to tell them where they can go.
"Obamacare was rammed down the GOPs throat"The ACA was
passed by both houses of congress, signed by the president & upheld by the
SCOTUS. That's the process as laid down in the constitution by the founding
fathers, which conservatives claim to revere. Only as long as it is convenient,
apparently.Why is it that so many Republicans believe that if they
don't agree with the results of a bill, they get to disregard it and throw
wrenchs into the proceedings of government? Where is it written in the
constitution that one party has to be 100% placated, even if it goes against the
legislative process? Where does this sense of entitlement come from that,
regardless of the results of elections and the normal operations of our country,
that their opinion is the only one that truly matters?Want to get
your way with laws? Win elections, gain majorities and pass bills using the
mechanisms of government. Holding hostages, be it a person or a nation, is what
bullies do when they can't get their way through normal acceptable means.
The Tea-Party GOP are acting like spoiled children, not rational
stewards of our nation.
I hope the Tea Party keeps it shut down as long as possible, because that will
also mean the end of the Tea Party. The end is in sight. Hurray!
The Governor is right. Obamacare was rammed down the GOPs throat and if the
Democrats are going to play the political game that way than they will have a
backlash they will have to deal with later. If the dems don't see it
coming there will come a time when the tea party becomes politically adept
enough to win the races necessary to swing the pendulum back the other way. And
Democrats will have burned the bridges necessary to stop what may come.
What happened to Republicans respect for the rule of law? ACA is now law, so
whether or not you agree with you it, if you shut down the government and hint
that you won't raise the debt ceiling unless you get your way, you
can't say you also respect the rule of law.Anyone who blames
Obama and Democrats on the shutdown is not thinking clearly, and doesn't
have much in the way of morals. If Republicans don't agree to raise the
debt ceiling because they don't get their way, the fault rests squarely on
Republicans. If someone came to your house and said, "if you don't
let me destroy your polluting truck, I will kill your dog", who would
deserves most of the blame? The person making the threat or the person or the
dog owner? Who would be charged for a crime? Republican Congressmen might be
acting on their conscience, but it's a very warped conscience, and its very
much grounded in ego, for they want to be heros for their ignorant tea party
"...the GOP governor also refused to rule out tying the Republican efforts
in Congress against the law to the upcoming debate over raising the
nation's debt ceiling." A default would lead to reduction of or ending
of social security. A piece of advice to Governor Herbert:
don't even think it!