Topic of the day: Government shutdown

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  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 6, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    The shut down is like a union strike. However, Senator Lee and his followers have other people strike and not get paid. This act by our leaders will influence how people obey or not obey the law.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Oct. 1, 2013 9:14 p.m.

    You screamed about it when Bush was in office? Yet there were no budget standoffs from republicans then.

    The ironic thing about the so called communist, snti constitutional Obamacare is that it was the republicans idea!

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    LDS Liberal

    I screamed about it when Bush spent like a Democrat. I agree that some Republicans don't hold to their stated values when it is their guy in office. However, that seems to be what many Obama supporters are doing now too. Either way, we have big problems and if something is not done by the powers in office, bigger ones to come. Just how high do you honestly think the debt ceiling can go before something bad happens? Right now, it seems as if the only thing preventing that 23 trillion dollar debt I mentioned earlier, is a hand full of Republicans. If not for them, how high would the Democrats take our debt? Any idea?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 4:12 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,
    You forgot a few factual dates in your fantasy list... From Wikipedia (government shutdowns in the United States)...

    1976 Democrats shutdown Ford

    1977 The Democratically-controlled Senate shutdown the government in a hissy-fit over the ban on using Medicaid dollars to pay for abortions.

    1977 The earlier temporary funding agreement expired. President Jimmy Carter signed a second funding agreement to allow for more time for negotiation.

    1977 The second temporary funding agreement expired. The House held firm against the Senate in its effort to ban Medicaid paying for the abortions

    1978 again over gov $$$ for abortions.

    1979 Again over gov $$$ for abortions

    1981 President Ronald Reagan pledged that he would veto any spending bill that failed to include at least half of the $8.4 billion in domestic budget cuts that he proposed. Democrats refused.

    Democrat shutdowns again in 1982, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1990...

    Total 18 times.

    Democrats controlled the House in all 18 cases except the two during the Clinton Administration (when Republicans had majority and insisted on welfare reform and a balanced budget).

    There's a great list with who the president was, who controlled House and Senate, and the reason.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    Bush wiped out a $5.6 Trillion budget surplus in 2 years and the national debt hit $10 Trillion on his watch. Remember how Right-Wingers screamed about that? No? That’s because the didn’t.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    Do you have an example where Democrats compromised on ObamaCare? Has the Senate even voted on one of the House proposals? Not one! Harry Reid just rejects them and said he won't even read anything they send him! THAT... is not compromise.

    If you want to pretend to be the party of compromise... at least don't say you're going to reject EVERYTHING before they even send it. Tell them what you WILL accept. Maybe throw them a bone, offer to delay 3 weeks instead of the 5 weeks they asked for or something. But at least read it, vote on it, respond to it. Harry Reid said he would reject ANYTHING the House sends him. How is THAT "Compromise"?

    I agree we need to drop the silly rhetoric. That's my point exactly. That the Democrats who are pretending that just Republicans won't compromise need to wake up and smell their own coffee.

    I agree adding unrelated things to force them to vote for or against it is a bogus political game. You're not pretending Democrats don't do that... are you? They both do. That's why I'm disappointed with Congress (not just Republicans).

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 1, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    @2bits..... you asked for one example...ok..... from the last debt ceiling "compromise" in 2011..

    "President Barack Obama signed a debt- limit compromise that prevents a U.S. default on the day the Treasury had warned the nation’s borrowing authority would expire, ending a months-long debate that reinforced partisan divisions over federal spending."

    There are lots more of these.... but you asked for one

    Lets back off the silly rhetoric of one side does blank, while the other is all saintly. It there were one constitutional change I would love to see is that bills had to be single subject. None of this silly rider bills that stick unrelated stuff in them.

    If you want a budget bill... pass a budget bill. If you want to change or repeal Obamacare.... do that. You wnat to change gun laws... do just that. Don't tie unrelated topics together. It is dishonest at best.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 12:34 p.m.


    Re: "so did Bush compromise on the tax cuts"? Yes... he did. Google "Bush Tax Cuts History)
    1. He adjusted the income cut offs, and rates for some groups (in response to Democrat demands).
    2. He gave in to Democrat's demands that they have an automatic sunset date.
    3. Even with those compromises Democrats fought to repeal them in 2004 and 2008... UNTIL Obama Became President. THEN Democrats fought to make them PERMANENT (but just for the middle-class) and won.

    The Bush tax cuts are actually a pretty good example of compromise.

    IF Obama had even allowed Republicans IN THE ROOM when this healthcare legislation was being written... we wouldn't be where we are today. Now Obama and Harry Reid refuse to even READ any of the multiple proposals from the House. How does THAT illustrate Democrat's superior ability to "compromise"?

    I'm pretty sure Obama wouldn't give in to a demand that ObamaCare have an automatic sunset date.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 1, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    LDS Liberal
    Or the middle class will revolt against the Democrats because everyone else but the middle class got a waiver and will vote you silly Democrats out of office and Hillary will lose in a landslide and the Democratic party implodes. Particularly when Obamacare kills a few million more jobs, causes healthcare cost to explode and it gets rationed because of doctor shortages! Your future rises and falls with Obamacare! Right now the polls are not in your favor.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    You forgot one more date

    Jan 21, 2017. The United States of America is now in a permanent decline and will never recover due to the 23 trillion dollar debt and a Federal Government that is out of control.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    2013 -- Silly Republicans throw a hissy fit and shut-down the United States Government.
    2014 -- Congress has a dismal 7% approval rating, Americans are fed up with it, and Democrats sweep the House of Representatives.
    2015 -- The Republican Party implodes.
    2016 -- Democrats gain 6 more seats in the Senate.
    Jan. 20, 2017 -- Hillary Clinton (D) is sworn in as the 1st female President of the United States.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 1, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    "....Congress has an opportunity to act before it is too late. Fiscal responsibility starts with defunding ObamaCare.”

    Calls for fiscal responsibility are always invoked by those with their own pet priorities that they fight to keep funded. This is not about fiscal responsibility. It never has been.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 1, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    2bits, so did Bush compromise on the tax cuts? Ahh no, and neither will Obama compromise here. The ACA has been litigated 4 different times and the Republicans have lost all four, and their going to lose number 5.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    Democrats threatened to shutdown the government if Congress didn't de-fund the wars (the same wars they voted to start). So don't pretend thie never happens.

    The only difference this time is... it's happening to the Great Obama. And that's why all the fuss.

    It happened to Reagan several times. It happened to Clinton several times. It's not the big deal you make it out to be.

    And Congress fighting over something that's already law... How about Democrats fighting the Bush Tax cuts (even after they were law and Constitutional).

    How about Democrats fighting funding the Iraq war (after they voted to start it).

    IMO It's not a good thing to do... but your pretense that rarely happens or that only Republicans do it... is obviously bunk.

    Who shutdown the government during the Reagan administration (because they refused to pass a budget)? Was it Republicans or Democrates? It was Democrats who wouldn't pass a budget. Democrats can't make tough budget decisions. And they are not known for compromising (on ObamaCare, on budgets, on anything).

    Name one compromise DEMOCRATS have made to avert this government shutdown fiasco.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 1, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    VickieB tell me when the government was shutdown in order to make adjustments to Medicare, or Social Security, or the CDC etc. etc. etc.? That's the point. You don't shut down the government to make adjustments to existing laws. Wait your turn. When Republicans control the White House and the Congress, have at it. Until then the ACA has nothing to do with funding the government or raising the debt limit, regardless of how you feel about it.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 1, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    Last time we looked, Obama illegally mandated 17 changes in his own Obamacare law without any authority to do so! Bypassing congress, illegally changing laws at his whims. Where is your outrage Democrats? And now you and Obama whine about the GOP in congress want to delay some of this mess that Obama did for the privileged, their friends and for themselves? Your outrage is hypocritical and as phony as you are!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 5:35 a.m.

    Good point, do not end shut down until second amendment repealed. Give the radical right their own medicine for subverting the rules.

  • VickieB SLC, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 1:21 a.m.

    Employee mandates were already stripped out by Obama until 2015. It seems one person is holding people hostage, while letting business slide.

    The last shutdown brought conversations and passed bills between both sides. Maybe this will force Obama to start compromising. Something both sides have not done.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 30, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    It's not a bill.

    It's a law.

    I wonder if Repubs would be up in arms (literally) if the Democrats threatened to shut down the government if the GOP didn't "negotiate" the 2nd amendment?

    If the ACA is really as bad as the GOP says, why not let it go through? If our country goes into the tank, the GOP literally won't have to do anything to win the next several elections.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 30, 2013 9:14 p.m.

    From the article: "This event has of course evoked strong response from both sides of the political spectrum, with those on the left calling for the GOP to “grow up” and accept that the bill is here to stay and calls from the right about stopping the “fiscally irresponsible ” health care reform."

    It's not a "bill"--it's a law. The only way to repeal a law is for both houses of congress to pass a repeal measure, and for the President to sign it. One half of one branch of the government does not get to dictate to the other two-and-a-half branches.