He said nothing about it, so I default to his greatest teachings and back to
you.What did Christ say about capital punishment...?
@Happy Valley HereticChrist fulfilled the law of Moses. Christian do
not follow the law of Moses.Again give me ONE new testament verse
about treating murderers.
the truth said:@Happy Valley Heretic Exactly where does say it say it
applies to murder? It doesn't!Um it says it lots of places, and
the punishment is the same for eating shell fish, so keep picking and choosing
to make God in your image, not the one Christ spoke of.
@Gildas;A few cells dividing do not a human being make. Simply
because fertilization has occurred doesn't mean it's a human. That
takes approximately 9 months.How many innocent people should be
killed in order to put one guilty one to death? Too many "confessions"
are made under duress. It's amazing what you can get people to confess to
when you grill them for hours on end.
As a person opposed to the death penalty, shut utah government down until it is
take off the books are defunded.
Having some experience with the criminal justice system as it relates to the
unintended death of a family member in a traffic accident I can identify with
the desires of family to get the sadness out of their lives and "move
on" as it were.However as a member of the community or society I
feel there is a need for a sense of justice to prevail in our community life.
When the people as a whole feel that those charged with enforcement of laws are
not fulfilling their responsibilities, the is the sense that something is
wrong.The legal profession has morphed into a haven for the more
intellectually capable social workers among us. We see graffiti
scribblers go unpunished, crimes of property and even assault plea bargained to
little if any incarceration, protective orders are a farce, drunk/impaired
driving is winked at, all of which fuels the public's sense that justice is
not found in the legal system. It has become a reality show called
"Let's Make a Deal".Focus on the victim, the criminal
is not a victim he/she is a perpetrator. IMO.
@Happy Valley HereticExactly where does say it say it applies to
@SLC BYU Fan - I think it's a little bold to assert the church's
position (or impending position) on this subject, especially since in the BoM
they actually executed people (by order of the church) who were intentionally
leading church members astray. I'm just sayin'...On the
one hand, I think that as a society we have an obligation to give people a
chance to make restitution, and even try to turn their lives around. I
understand the argument that opponents make about the execution of the murderer
just adding to the list of people who died in association with the original
crime. On the other hand, is it fair to we members of society to be
forced to pay for these criminals to be incarcerated for the rest of their
lives? Especially if we're going to implement "Life without Parole"
as the alternative. Ultimately, I think the whole corrections system
needs an overhaul. Incarceration needs to either truly facilitate rehabilitation
(where possible,) or act a true deterrent. Maybe bring back the old concept of
@procuradorfiscal"It's simply disingenuous to declare that DNA
evidence has "exonerated" anyone."DNA evidence
absolutely has exonerated people and occasionally even led to the actual
criminal being held to account rather than the one they originally locked away
Until the justice system is much much better..."The first DNA
exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 36 states; since
2000, there have been 244 exonerations."That's 244 people
who would have been murdered by the state who were innocent, just since 2000.The innocent can't be collateral damage in your bloodlust.
the truth: "It is about punishing a murderer for their murderous
crimes."Eye for an eye was primitive at the time Christ
relinquished it with "turn the other cheek." Probably not as
popular with anger management crowd but it was "His" policy.
What about the Victims? Did the victims get to keep there life!!!! no they got a
death sentence.And so should the killers be put to death. an EYE for an
We kill innocent human beings in the womb but let murderers live. Even where there is a confession of murder we let killers live while their
victims are dead without hope of reprieve. Sometimes the inflicted
deaths have been cruel and hideous but the "learned" spin their
sophisticated webs of deceit as to why the confessed murderer should live and be
freed after a few years in prison. They defend first degree murderers and
attack those who seek the protection of society and the execution of justice as
being "vengeful".This is one of the most notorious of the
many core cases where "the people" are ignored, their wishes despised
and ignored.I hope that Utah will soon make the case for justice and
not political correctness.
The problem is gutless, lazy prosecutors who'd rather get a plea bargin
than try a case. Why are the 8 that are currently on death row still
alive? Many have been there over 20 years. That is NOT justice. They've
been tried and convicted, carry out the sentence.
Re: "Is the death penalty dead in Utah?"It is, so long as
"justice" in Utah is in the hands of politically-motivated, pro-crime
prosecutorial regimes such as Sim Gill's.And blather to the
effect that "[t]here have been 311 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the
United States" merely muddies the water.Actually, there
hasn't been a single "exoneration." Merely a few disingenuous
re-examinations of decades-old evidence, coupled with decisions not to retry
cases, typically because victims and witnesses are dead, missing, or unwilling
to be re-victimized, evidence has gone stale or missing, and callow, pro-crime,
law school-affiliated defense mills have unfairly targeted long-dead, born-again
anti-death penalty, or disgusted/disinterested prosecutors.It's
simply disingenuous to declare that DNA evidence has "exonerated"
The church won't ever tell the people to oppose capital punishment. As a
matter of fact The Several scriptures are pro death penalty. As for races on
death row people don't go to death row do to race they do due to there
crime. As for innocents many guilty go free and murder innocent people.
Car's kill innocent people too do we abandon them.If someone
knew they would die shortly there would be fewer murders committed.
@TruthseekerIt is not about deterring crime, that is what the
political correctness enforcers and liberals want you to believe.It
is about punishing a murderer for their murderous crimes.It is about
administering justice for the victims.It is about nothing else.When you make it about other things it stops and robs justice.The funny thing is when allow murder to live it punishes the tax payer who
forced to pay for everything.That is why having a convict sitting in
a jail cell at the innocents expense is not always the answer to justice.
DNA Exonerations NationwideThere have been 311 post-conviction DNA
exonerations in the United States.• The first DNA exoneration
took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 36 states; since 2000, there
have been 244 exonerations.• 18 of the 311 people exonerated
through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital
crimes but not sentenced to death.• The average length of time
served by exonerees is 13.6 years. The total number of years served is
approximately 4,156.• The average age of exonerees at the time
of their wrongful convictions was 27.Races of the 311 exonerees:193 African Americans94 Caucasians22 Latinos2 Asian
Agree with flashback, with DNA evidence available one appeal at each level. This
will at least cut down on repeat offenders which is a big problem and cut down
on gang influences in the prison system. The liberals cry for stronger gun laws.
Why not stronger and harsher punishments.
Some of the posts here are pretty absurd. While the death penalty remains
poular in Utah and within LDS culture, what are LDS Church members going to do
when general leadership comes out and admonishes members within a nation to
persue legally ending its implementation? This is something I have a feeling
the church is much closer to doing than many realize. Execution is VERY hard on
corrections officials who are charged in carrying it out as one poster above
pointed out. Under the circumstances right or wrong, capitol punishment is
classified as a homocide under most if not all state death certificate reporting
protocols. Don't get me wrong, I detest the activity of the ACLU and other
"criminal liberties activists," but "Life without the Possability of
Parole or Pardon" is a better scenario, letting these criminals know
they'll be in a maximum security unit until the herse pulls up. "You
go to prison, you DON'T GET OUT!"
Allegedly, Ault was the former director of corrections for Georgia. Really?He doesn't know the difference between premeditated (illegal)
murder and premeditated (due process, legal) execution. He would equate
premeditated (due process, legal) incarceration and premeditated (illegal)
kidnapping, as it would duplicate the error you said he made. That
would Indicate Ault can't tell the difference between crime and punishment
or criminal and victim. Hardly credible.
Gillespie may of may not be wrong about costs in Utah.Virgina has
executed about 70% of those sent to death since 1976 (110 murderers executed)
and has done so within 7.1 years, on average, a protocol which Utah could
duplicate and would save money over life without parole.The main
thing in opposition to such a protocol are anti death penalty judges and
legislators, who put road blocks in the way.I review a number os
state death penalty costs in "Saving Costs with The Death Penalty"
If the legal system and society treat crimes such as murder with a casual
attitude then mob justice will rule. What are the courts going to do sentence
the vigilantes to death.
One appeal to the State Supreme Court, One appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
That would suffice.
"I can’t always remember their names, but in my nightmares I can see
their faces. As the commissioner of the Georgia Department of Corrections from
1992-1995, I oversaw five executions. The men and women who assist
in executions are not psychopaths or sadists. They do their best to perform the
impossible and inhumane job with which the state has charged them. Those of us
who have participated in executions often suffer something very much like
posttraumatic stress.When I was required to supervise an execution,
I tried to rationalize my work by thinking, if I just save one future victim,
maybe it is worth it. But I was very aware of the research showing that the
death penalty wasn’t a deterrent. I left my job as corrections
commissioner in Georgia in 1995 partially because I had had enough: I
didn’t want to supervise the executions anymore.Having
witnessed executions firsthand, I have no doubts: capital punishment is a very
scripted and rehearsed murder. It’s the most premeditated murder possible.
"The U.S.should be like every other civilized country and
abolish the death penalty.(Allen Ault "I Ordered Death in
Not dead yet, there is a last minute appeal available.
Sadly, the U.S. Supreme Court has made justice more trouble and expense than it
is worth, in many cases. That is why things are like they are.
The bottom line is, it is costly and time sonsuming to push through a death
sentence. It is also too easy to wrongfully convict someone of something they
didn't do as very nearly happened to someone I grew up with. It is time
that Utah join the growing number of states (New Mexico abolished capitol
punishment a few years ago), and abolish the death penalty. Life without the
possability of parole or pardon is a much better option and given the litigation
costs cited above, now makes more cost sense. What hurts or slows down making
this move is there are too many human rights activists who oppose this similarly
to the death penalty and feel 20-25 years is the most anyone should spend in
prison thereby forcing the state to focus on rehab. Problem is rehab isn't
possible and is merely a fantasyland after thought. If the death penalty is
abolished, then life without parole/pardon MUST remain an option for the courts
for the people.
Was that "pun" intended?
This is very sad and it will get worse. Our so-called justice system has gone
political correctness, therefore, justice becomes a joke. Punishment for a
murderer is now called cruel and inhumane. So, they serve a few years, get out
and murder someone else. Until we push for our government officials and
politicians like Sam Gill to have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and do
their jobs, they will continue to take the easy way out and go after easy
targets. Remember the last State Attorney General,who refused to do his job
regarding enforcing the immigration laws? The Salt Lake City Chief of Police
joined in and the only thing missing was another ring and we have a circus. If
we do not follow our laws and set consequences, why make them. Murderers will
then get swift justice from their neighborhood mobs. Until we mean what we say,
we will continue to fear for our lives walking at night in our own
neighborhoods. I love Texas. They do not mess around with murderers.
This is fairly commmon.The courts have made it incresingly difficult
to purseu the death penalty.Nationally, there have been about
700,000 murders since 1973, when new death penalty ststutes started to come back
after Furman v Georgia vacated all death penalty ststutes in 1972.Since then, nationally, there have been about 8300 death sentences, or about
1.3% of murders, with about 1300 executions, or about 0.2% of murders.If about 10% of all murders are death penalty eligible, those would be 13% of
the time a death sentence is given and 2% of the time executions are carries
out, per capital murder.Nationally, 37% of death penalty cases are
overturnered on appeal.
The death penalty is a joke. A person sentenced to death in this state is more
likely to die of old age before their execution date arrives.