Christian denominations sorting out how to navigate world with same-sex marriage

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  • Griz Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    "By attending, we are supporting real people who are of tremendous value to God. By attending, we are imitating Christ"

    Wow, show me an example where Jesus attended a same sex marriage or said publicly or privately that he supports and blesses same sex unions? People with itching ears...

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    If a tree falls in a forest AND it is not witnessed by a Baptist pastor or a Catholic Priest did the tree still fall?

  • BigBuddha Chandler, AZ
    Oct. 19, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    Do humans choose to be homosexual?

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    I will add, God has the right to claim who is His and who is not, and He will do it based on choices we make. We were all His when we started, but if you want to retain your heir status, certain things are expected of you, as He has told us. You can whine all you want that it isn't fair, but it is fair because He is perfectly fair.

    I feel great love and anguish for my friends, family, and fellow men/women who choose to hate God and hate me for following Him in the way I believe is right. I cannot accept your expectation that I join you. But I do invite you to join me in following His ways. You will be a lot happier if you do.

    If you choose to continue to "kick against the pricks", and live in misery, I respect your choice. Misery loves company, but no matter how much company you win over, it is still misery. If SSM is legal everywhere, and everyone on earth embraces it, you still won't be happy. Endorsement doesn't equal happiness, nor does wickedness equal happiness.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    "And enough with the obvious and overused red-herring of incest."

    There is only one marriage, the God endorsed union of a man and a woman. There are mockeries of marriage, in all sorts of forms. Why would one seeking tolerance for his/her mockery of marriage (SSM), withhold it from others (brother/sister, polygamy, man and animal, etc)?

    "Or if you feel that strongly about it, start a campaign."

    Campaigning doesn't determine right and wrong. God does.

    "They're going to have to buck up; they're just churches."

    Ah the 'you have to embrace us while we belittle you' attitude. So prevalent in SSM/liberal proponents, and so completely hypocritical.

    "The Southern Baptist Convention has no authority to tell individual congregations, chaplains, or members anything."

    If I hire you to represent my company, I certainly have the right to tell you what you can and cannot say and do in behalf of my company, and if you don't represent my company well, I have the right to fire/kick you out of my company. You may not think that is right, but that is how it is.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    "What would Christ do?"

    Preaching repentance and forgiveness. Not endorse and certainly not perform SSM.

    "He told the adultress, go and sin no more, not to keep doing it."

    Note that he didn't provide her with a partner for further sinning.

    "Religions do not have to accept it, but they do have to respect it."

    Respect is earned and spitting in someone's face doesn't earn it. It is not a constitutional right, and neither is marriage.

    "Why can't people get it through their heads that SSM is an issue of CIVIL LAW, not religious marriage?"

    Marriage is God's institution, existing before there were any civil laws. Civil marriage is a mockery of God's institution.

    "No one has yet produced a single shred of legally sustainable harm nor legal argument against SSM."

    Not true. There are tons of studies and evidence showing the ill effects of same sex marriage, but proponents choose to ignore them.

  • RednSilver Lawton, OK
    Oct. 15, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    The Southern Baptist Convention has no authority to tell individual congregations, chaplains, or members anything. Members are responsible to themselves and to their God for their beliefs and practices. The Convention is simply a way to combine income from small congregations to fund new missions and missionaries. It has no authority over anybody or anything.

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    Bravo for the Catholic Church. It tickles me they are standing up for what they believe is right. A true marriage is between a man and a woman - nothing else because that is what it has been since Adam and it's not ever going to be accepted any other way. To marry someone of the same sex is perverted and an abomination to the Lord.

  • postaledith Freeland, WA
    Oct. 4, 2013 3:25 p.m.

    I support same-sex marriage. If two people love each other and want to share their life together, I'm all for it. There are way too many people who are divorced, in a miserable marriage, or cheating on their spouse. Gay marriage is evolving everywhere and it's not going away.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 2, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    They're going to have to buck up; they're just churches.

  • aislander Anderson Island, WA
    Oct. 2, 2013 12:32 a.m.

    Why can't people get it through their heads that SSM is an issue of CIVIL LAW, not religious marriage? As the inevitable outcome of 50 state SSM becomes fact, no religion nor church will be required to perform nor recognize ANY marriage that it chooses not to. But the many churches that DO support gay marriage will be able to perform and recognize them and those that choose no church at all will still be treated equally under civil law via civil marriage. It is our government which creates a legal marriage. Try getting married in a church without a government issued license!

    No one has yet produced a single shred of legally sustainable harm nor legal argument against SSM. Until such time, people should live by their OWN beliefs and not try to force them upon everyone else. And LDS members should be especially aware that at some time the shoe could certainly be on the other foot.

    And enough with the obvious and overused red-herring of incest. It belongs in the dustbin along with the similar arguments about bestiality and marriage to inanimate objects. Or if you feel that strongly about it, start a campaign.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Oct. 1, 2013 4:43 p.m.

    Since it is obvious from all these posts that there is much confusion about scripture, I feel we need some modern day revelation to clear things up. Wonder where we could get some?

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Sept. 30, 2013 9:54 p.m.

    It's interesting and very clear that those who are most defensive have something they feel guilty about. If one has a completely clear conscience, there is no need to worry what others think. And no need to defend oneself so vehemently.

    I wonder if Jesus ever called someone a bigot. My guess is no.

  • Lightening Lad Austin , TX
    Sept. 30, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    The issue isn't cut quite as cleanly as one would suspect. It's good for the Catholic Church to take a firm stand against homosexuality and gay marriage but with a priesthood make up of more than a third, homosexual priests combined with the numbers of cases of sexual child abuse that has put many local units into bankrupcy the church should examine its failures on the topic first. The piece concluded with a statement connecting conservative politics with opposition to gay marriage, I have to wonder why is that so. The father of the conservative movement was Barry Goldwater, he spoke put consistently against mixing church church doctrine and party politics. The GOP has fallen off its popularity since the 1994 marriage with the evangelical movement, the Moral Majority, and Pat Robertson. It's time for a divorce so national cantidates have a chance to win. Less than 40% of US voters oppose gay marriage, it will be the law in all but a few states by 2020. Churches should work with legislatures to fashion protection within gay marriage bills as was done in New York. If not, they have no one to blame but themselves.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    @Spider Rico;

    Just as you don't have to accept the views of any other church on the issue, we DON'T have to accept the view of yours. Nor do we have to live by the rules of your church.

    If you say otherwise, guess what, that is hypocrisy and Jesus actually did have something negative to say about hypocrites.

  • Spider Rico Greeley, CO
    Sept. 27, 2013 3:03 p.m.

    I frankly don't see why what some other Christian denominations decide to do with homosexual marriage should have any effect on my view on the subject. I don't belong to those churches. There is no correlation between what they say and the truth in my eyes. If every other church in the world accepts gay marriage besides mine I will continue to believe it is a sin. And no, you don't have to accept my belief, but neither do I have to accept yours. And I will judge what is right and wrong every minute of every day. That is not wrong. Me condemning somebody to the eternal pit is, because that is my job. But my judging something a sin is my job. How can I avoid sin if I do not know what it is? You can disagree with me all you want but my stance will never change. Call me what you will, I know my sins and I will not stop fighting the world's sins.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    @donn --

    1.Paul and slavery --

    --Also "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything". (Col 3:22)

    2. The New Covenant --

    "...the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises." (Hebrews 8:6)

    "By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."(Hebrews 8:13)

    "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6)

    And many other passages about the New Covenant, which I don't have space for!

    3. The NT and homosexuality --

    "Jude 10:7"

    There is no such thing as "Jude 10:7".

    You probably mean Jude 1:7, which actually reads: "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion."

    Nope, nothing about homosexuality in particular. "Sexual immorality and perversion" covers a LOT of territory.

  • donn layton, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    @Contrariuser 1.Paul also supported slavery. True, “Paul a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle…”(Romans 1:1).

    2. The O.T.the laws were replaced by the N.T. ?
    ….the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine. ( 1Tim 1: 9-10)

    3.Paul was the ONLY person in the N. T. who spoke against homosexuality.
    “…the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, all full of lust of every kind, including lust of men for other men.” (Jude 10:7)

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    One solution would be to get rid of commercial corporate organized religion (big business) and follow the example of Jesus religion of individual conscious .

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Sept. 27, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    @RG --

    "No, says modern prophets. "

    Fortunately, this country isn't a theocracy. Your personal version of "God" doesn't get to win over everybody else's, and your religion doesn't get to determine our laws.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 27, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    "Sez you."
    No, says modern prophets.
    Jesus and the Biblical prophets probably said lots more than we realize on the subject, but we don't have all they said. Thus, the need for modern revelation.

    Just because you may not accept Joseph Smith and his successors as prophets of God, does not mean they were not. They were and are, and they said homosexual behavior is wrong.

    I believe this is the last comment DN will let me make on the subject. Bye.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    Just remember --

    How you judge others, is how you yourself will be judged.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Sept. 26, 2013 4:13 p.m.

    @RG --

    "One of those things God prohibits is intimate relations with those of the same gender "

    Sez you.

    1. Old Testament laws were replaced by the New Covenant.
    2. Jesus never said a single word against homosexuality.
    3. Homosexuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the Gospels, except for one passage in which Jesus acknowledges -- WITHOUT condemnation -- that some men are "born eunuchs" (in ancient texts, the term "eunuch" included homosexuals) and that such men should not marry women. (Matthew 19:12)
    4. Paul didn't like homosexuals. Paul also supported slavery, believed that women were inferior to men, told everyone that nobody should ever get divorced, and claimed that it was better to remain single than to marry. He was a mortal, fallible man. Paul was the ONLY person in the New Testament who spoke against homosexuality.
    5. Many religious people -- including Christians, Jews, and members of other faiths -- support gay rights. They have no trouble reconciling the text of the Bible with the full citizenship of gay people.
    6. Many Christian denominations are already happy to perform gay marriages.
    6. Even if God DOES consider homosexuality a sin, it isn't our job to judge. Judging is GOD'S job.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 26, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    @ Ranch
    I gave a lesson in Church recently about not judging. (Based on a talk by Dallin Oaks, August 1999 Ensign) We don't judge people, especially anyone's ultimate state in the hereafter, but we are supposed to judge between right and wrong. This is why the scriptures say "judge not" but they also say "judge righteous judgment." Judge not people's ultimate destiny, but judge what is right and wrong. God has said that certain things are wrong. All of us have problems with one or more of these things, but we're supposed to repent and stop doing them, not rationalize our behavior. One of those things God prohibits is intimate relations with those of the same gender (and while we're at it, of the opposite gender unless we're married.) But God made the rule; I didn't. As far as minding my business, true, someone else's relationship is not my business except 1) as a voter I vote for what I believe helps society, and 2) if I was a Church leader, I'd have to clarify Church standards. My 1st post was meant to clarify Jesus' position.

  • Spider Rico Greeley, CO
    Sept. 26, 2013 2:29 p.m.

    @Ranch. It's not bad for us to speak up against sin. Christ spoke against sin as well as all the prophets. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we should let sins pass by unnoticed. We all sin and have fallen short of the glory of God, but that doesn't mean we should let sin thrive. We must all stand up to sin and its encroachment into our homes and our communities. We should not be forced to accept sinful practices or become a part of them. Now you can quote some scripture to make me out to be a hypocrite - go ahead. I know I have my own faults and am working on them. But I will not sit idly by and let others attack my belief system.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    Navigating a world with legalized same-sex marriage is easy:

    Follow the law.

    Treat others with respect and dignity, especially those who subscribe to beliefs different than your own.

    Treat others the way you would wish to be treated.

    How hard is that?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 1:32 p.m.


    You said:

    "But associating with them does not mean condoning their sin. He told the adultress, go and sin no more, not to keep doing it."

    The article is about same-sex couples marrying. Clearly, you are equating same-sex couples to "sinners" with your comment that essentially we "keep on doing it" by being a couple and getting married.

    Perhaps I am a bit sensitive, but I'm really getting tired of religious hypocrites. If we're "all sinners" and we should "sin no more", then perhaps religious people should stop judging others and mind their own business.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Sept. 26, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    @sashabill --

    "Moral standards, by definition, are discriminatory"

    You don't seem to understand the legal definition of "discrimination".

    "In Constitutional Law, the grant by statute of particular privileges to a class arbitrarily designated from a sizable number of persons, where no reasonable distinction exists between the favored and disfavored classes. ...."

    Notice that essential phrase: WHERE NO REASONABLE DISTINCTION EXISTS.

    In cases of moral standards, reasonable distinctions DO exist. Therefore, they are not legally discriminatory. In cases of sexual orientation, there are no such distinctions.

    "The LGBT crowd has confused "love" or "tolerance" with relativism."

    EVERY moral standard is relative.

    "Thou shalt not kill" -- unless you support the death penalty. Unless you're killing in self defense. Unless you declare war on another country.

    "Thou shalt not create graven images." -- unless you're a religious artist.

    "Remember the Sabbath" -- even Jesus himself said that this one was relative.

    Acknowledging the relativity of morals does NOT mean that morality doesn't exist!

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?"
    -- James 4:12

    " Judge not, that ye be not judged."
    -- Matthew 7:1

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    Article: "The rules... also prohibit chaplains from acknowledging a spouse of the same gender at a retirement or promotion ceremony, or from assisting at a funeral if it would 'give the impression that the Church approves of same-sex 'marital' relationships.'"

    I can think of few things more heartless or less Christlike (not to mention petty) than intentionally withholding comfort to a grieving person who has just lost a loved partner. Any person who could do so does not deserve to be called human, let alone chaplain.

    At least if the chaplains won't come through, gay service members may be able to resort to the Commander in Chief. This paper reported elsewhere that former President G.H.W. Bush just attended a lesbian wedding and signed the legal documents.

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 26, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    @ Ranch
    "You keep calling us sinners."

    How do I keep calling you anything, since that was my first comment?

    Who is "us"?

    And if you carefully read my original comment you will see that I said "we are all sinners." But you still accused me of having a beam in my eye.

    It seems that you might be overly sensitive to what I considered a thoughtful comment. I wasn't thinking so much about funerals as about marriage, but reasonable people might disagree about what actions "condone" gay marriage.

    Nevertheless, my overall point was that contrary to BYU Track Star's implication that Jesus' association with sinners might mean that sin was ok, that Jesus never said sin was ok.

  • Spider Rico Greeley, CO
    Sept. 26, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    Shocker, they didn't post my message even though there were no cuss words, vulgarity, or anything of the like. All I said was we should stand up to sin. Even DN has to be politically correct on this issue. Unbelievable. "Sin is a vice, so evil and mean, that to be hated need only be seen. But seen to oft, familiar with its face, at first we endure, then pity, then embrace."

    Sept. 26, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    It is sad that Pastor Arterburn is choosing the world and it's opinion over God. His comment does not show the "love the sinner but hate the sin" requirement Christ followed in His own earthly ministry. God does love all of His children, but those who turn from him an practice sin face those penalties.

    Too many clergy are selling their birthright for a "mess of pottage"...

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Sept. 26, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Moral standards, by definition, are discriminatory - differentiating between courses of action and behavior as distinguished from other courses of action and behavior. Individuals are within their rights to make judgments based on those standards, and religious denominations are within their rights to advocate such judgments publicly. The LGBT crowd has confused "love" or "tolerance" with relativism. By so doing, they have demonstrated the shallowness and moral bankruptcy of their own position, not the homophobia of anybody else's. It is not the job of religious leaders or military chaplains just to dispense a lot of wishywashy fluff about "diversity."

  • Jeffsfla Glendale, CA
    Sept. 26, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    ...retirement or promotion ceremony, or from assisting at a funeral if it would "give the impression that the Church approves of same-sex 'marital' relationships."

    I am not sure where I stand on military chaplains conducting same sex marriages. But when you talk about funerals of a spouse..that is a different story. Jesus wanted ministers to minister, console, and help people in the worst times of their lives. No matter what you believe this must be one of those times with a member of your flock. If you follow this guidance I am most certain you will be harshly judged by our creator. Just how low will these foolish people go? Please someone help me understand.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    I think the liberals here didn't understand what the Catholic Church, and other churches are telling their Chaplains.

    As the article pointed out. Their Chaplains are supposed to be there to support people in need, but are to be cautious about engaging in activities that would make it appear that their church supports gay marriage.

    So, in the case of a funeral, the chaplain could do everything from comforting friends and family of the deceased to even officiating, as long as it was clear that gay marriage is not endorsed.

  • Pete1215 Lafayette, IN
    Sept. 26, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    If chaplains are to be forced to not have any scruples, then they don't really have a purpose. Remove chaplains from the military.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 10:47 a.m.


    How does recognizing that something is a certain way "condone it"? Recognizing a spouse during a funeral is not "condoning" the marriage, it is simply recognizing that it is how it is.

    You keep calling us "sinners". I think you need to remove a beam from your own eye before trying to pick the mote from ours.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    @ donn: Matthew 22:34-40
    New International Version (NIV)

    "34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?";

    37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'"

  • donn layton, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 7:23 a.m.

    RE: Dr. Thom "what would Christ do" is a mute point since the answer has already been answered scripturally. True,

    Matthew 19:5. (Jesus ) said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’. Marriage= Man and woman.

    Ephesians 6:2,3. (Paul) “Honor your Father and Mother”[not significant other],which is the first commandment with a promise”.

    God distinguishes father and mother from all other persons on earth, chooses them and sets them next to Himself, occupying the highest place in our lives next to God..

  • RG Buena Vista, VA
    Sept. 26, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    to BYU Track Star,
    Christ did indeed associate with sinners, as do ministers of all faiths that I know of. In fact, ministers have no choice since we're all sinners. But associating with them does not mean condoning their sin. He told the adultress, go and sin no more, not to keep doing it.

  • TA1 Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 26, 2013 7:09 a.m.

    It is far past time when all should be treated equally. That includes same sex couples who are maried. Religions do not have to accept it, but they do have to respect it. That means military chaplains or anyone else in the public service needs to treat same sex couples the same as opposite sex couples.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 7:02 a.m.

    Support our troops - unless they are gay.

    And there is no separation of church and state - unless the churches want it to be there because it benefits them - but prayer at public meetings, crosses on public property, and God in the Pledge of Allegiance - those are all okay because separation of church and state doesn't apply if it doesn't benefit religion.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 5:47 a.m.

    It's a very confusing time we live in. Where can one go for truth?

    Few religions teach that clearly and they continue to struggle as a result.

    Fortunately, the LDS faith has had a clear answer on that process since its founder received his first spiritual prompting.

  • Dr. Thom Long Beach, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:09 p.m.

    Asking the question "what would Christ do" is a mute point since the answer has already been answered scripturally in that we should hate the sin, but not the sinner. Child molesters and serial killer being the exception.

    As for some Christian churches that don't condone same sex relationships as natural or normal but have members who still want to retain their membership in a church, you can still be a homosexual and be a member of this church, just not a practicing homosexual one.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    Perhaps it's time for military chaplains to follow the example of LDS Seminaries if they insist of imposing their sectarian beliefs on the troops. The religions can build their own buildings just off base instead of using taxpayer-funded facilities. Chaplains on base should remember that they are there to serve the troops, not themselves.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:46 p.m.

    Freedom of religion extends to individuals as well as organizations. All can attend church, but it does not mean that a particular church is obligated to adopt the latest doctrine in vogue, i.e. Martin Luther v. Roman Catholicism, et al.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:32 p.m.

    Church is for the sinners.

    So, that should mean ALL of us.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 6:44 p.m.

    My earlier understanding of the Constitutional right of freedom of religion was that it applied to individuals and that it was improper to force a religious doctrine upon others. Currently it seems that the Constitutional right of freedom of religion not only applies to churches and their actions but also that churches have preference over the rights of individuals.

    I do not support the current interpretation of the Constitutional right of freedom of religion.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 6:27 p.m.

    I also hear rumour that Jesus Christ associated with Sinners and Publicans. I wonder if these folks have a problem with that too?

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    'The rules issued last week by the Archdioces of Military Services also prohibit chaplains from acknowledging a spouse of the same gender at a retirement or promotion ceremony, or from assisting at a funeral if it would "give the impression that the Church approves of same-sex 'marital' relationships."

    'Pastor and author Stephen Arterburn writes..."By attending, we are supporting real people who are of tremendous value to God. By attending, we are imitating Christ and allowing his love and grace to flow through us — rather than worrying what is right and proper in the sight of our religious buddies."

    Simple solution; have Pastor Stephen Arterburn officiate and ignore the bigots.