Ex-teacher, Boy Scout leader arrested in sex exploitation case

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  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    @ RedWings: Why are there no leaders in the tents with the boys? I'm sorry - but there are many dangers when a group of children are left alone, including many forms of bullying, dangerous behaviors with lighters, matches, knives, or ropes, inappropriate games and comments, etc., etc., etc.

    And while we are casting stones, let us not forget to acknowledge the older straight boys who want to knock or rape the sissy out of younger boys.

    There should be leaders in the tents with the boys.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Sept. 26, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    @RedWings --

    "The bigger danger in Scouting is the older boys who have identified themselves as "gay". "

    So -- according to you -- both the BSA and the LDS have knowingly put their scouts at risk by allowing these "dangerous" older boys into their program, while at the same time they have knowingly refused to admit gay adults who are NOT a danger?

    Is that REALLY what you want to say?

    " I know people whose kids have had this exact thing happen."

    Adolescent kids are going to experiment, no matter what their orientation. Even if some boys feel they have been inappropriately approached, that doesn't mean anything about the orientation of the boys that approached them.

    All the way back in the 1940s, the Kinsey Report found that at least 30% of all men have experimented sexually with another man at least once in their lives. That includes LOADS of straight men -- and, of course, adolescents.

    Boys who are openly homosexual are the very boys who are going to be LEAST likely to approach other scout members. Remember, predators hide under a camouflage of seeming "normality". Kids who admit their orientation will be under intense scrutiny for some time to come.

    Sept. 26, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    The bigger danger in Scouting is the older boys who have identified themselves as "gay". Having boys sleep in a tent together with no adult leaves younger boys open to predatory behavior by other youth. It is the same as putting a teenage boy and girl in the same tent. No one would think of ever allowing that. However, it appears that it is fine to put a 16 year old with raging hormones who is attracted to other boys in the same tent with younger boys. I know people whose kids have had this exact thing happen. Because they are minors and the BSA settles these case, they are not made public. It happens far more than you would imagine.

    It is well established that teenagers have trouble controlling their sex drives. That goes for gay and straight teenagers. Unless someone can cite some "study" alleging that gay boys don't have the same biologial changes and sex drives as heterosexual boys?

  • Contrariusester mid-state, TN
    Sept. 26, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    @Scott --

    "Would you allow a man to take your teenaged daughters camping?"

    NO Scout leader -- of any gender or orientation -- should take ANY scout hiking alone.

    The Girl Scouts already has straight male leaders.
    The Girl Scouts already has lesbian female leaders.
    The Boy Scouts already has straight female leaders.

    Why would gay male leaders be any different?

    @Kathy --

    Please try some FACTS instead of fantasies. In reality, gay couples experience domestic violence and sexual abuse at roughly the same rate as straight couples.

    Am J Public Health. 2002 December -- "Published estimates of partner abuse among MSM (gay men) range from 12% to 36%....these estimates are roughly comparable to cited measures of domestic violence among heterosexual women."

    The "Lesbian Partner Violence" sheet -- "Violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples".

    @Scott --

    "The truth is, you have absolutely no evidence to back up your wild assertions."

    The truth is that there is more risk from scouts and scout leaders who "appear" to be heterosexual than from those who are open about their homosexuality. True predators are experts at blending in with "normal" society. Most BSA pedophiles have been married men.

  • Contrariusester mid-state, TN
    Sept. 26, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    These attacks occurred DESPITE the BSA's ban on homosexual leaders.

    Pedophilia is NOT the same thing as homosexuality.

    British Journal of Psychiatry, 2001 -- men with "no evidence of homosexuality" were at roughly 50% GREATER risk for becoming child abusers than men "who were homosexually inclined".

    Child Advocacy Center -- 75% of all male child molesters are "married or have consenting sexual relationships (with women)" and that "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual perpetrators".

    Archives of Sexual Behavior, 1978 -- "sexual orientation was not related to the sex of the victim targeted" and that "men who molested boys often had adult relationships with women".

    American Psychological Association, National Association of Social Workers, American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and Child Welfare League of America -- all acknowledge that gay men are NOT more likely to molest children than heterosexual men.

    AN Groth, former director of the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections, has said: "my studies have indicated that homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males."

  • cj2018 KUTZTOWN, PA
    Sept. 26, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    Chris B, "This is a sad reminder of why the Boy Scouts does not allow homosexual leaders."

    So, going by your logic, if the pictures that were found had been of little girls, then the perpetrator would obviously be heterosexual; therefore, heterosexual men should not be scout leaders. Hmmm, sounds like faulty logic to me.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    Sept. 26, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Scouting have rules which scouts, parents and leaders should always insist on. It's called "2 deep leadership" meaning 2 adults for every activity. They also have rules about boys being alone with leaders.

    Follow those and other rules and things will 99.9999% of the time work out fine. Don't and you are asking for trouble.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:24 p.m.


    Sorry but your claim is Pantently false. First sex offender registries do not list the sexuality of the perpetrator. Secondly if you look at the research by the APA on the claimed sexualuality by perpatrators you will see that your numbers are more then "400%" off. The facts however remains they are not homosexual or heterosexual they are pediphiles (adults attracted to children).

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:49 p.m.

    This has nothing to do with gays and scouting. There is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. One can be gay and be as appalled at the sexual exploitation of children as someone who is heterosexual. Utah Centrist excellent comments. I concur.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    once again Chris when someone perpetrates on a child of the same sex it does not make that person a homosexual it makes then a person attracted to children also known as a perpetrator.

  • Kathy. Iowa, Iowa
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    Actually Utahcentrist- if you check the sex offender registry in just about any state you will find out that homosexual assaults is about 400% higher then heterosexual assault. Same goes for assault against gay adults only it is 40,000 more likely to be their live in gay friend. Just trying to keep the facts as they really are instead of the mythology to try and convince those who are not aware of the real numbers.

  • Kathy. Iowa, Iowa
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    This is exactly why if my husband could not camp with my sons they did not go. This is exactly why we did not do Eagle Scout. We also did not allow them to stay overnight anywhere as children.

  • UtahCentrist Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    "Would you allow a man to take your teenaged daughters camping?"

    You mean, like a Bishop, along with plenty of other leaders as well? Sure. I also wouldn't mind lesbian women being a girlscout leaders for them.

    No one is suggesting that a gay scout leader should be given carte blanche. For a camping trip there should always be multiple leaders involved and plenty of checks and balances. Trust but verify.

    But a blanket ban on all gay leaders in scouts, regardless of their character and personal history, is counter-productive. The assumption that a "straight" person is automatically more trustworthy than a "gay" one is the reason why an abuser is able to fly under the radar. Most rapists are straight. Most abusers are straight. Most murderers are straight. Sexual orientation has little to no bearing on if a person is honest and trustworthy, which is the very characteristics Scouting strives for. Blanket suspicion of a minority group who is automatically deemed unworthy of participating runs counter to the very mission of Scouting.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 3:34 p.m.


    "A man who is openly gay and wants to be a scout leader is probably far-less likely to be a danger."

    The truth is, you have absolutely no evidence to back up your wild assertions.

    Would you allow a man to take your teenaged daughters camping?

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    So sad that we have such perverts around us. I feel bad for these kids.

    Can you imagine what they experienced with this guy? Oh man. Absolutely horrible.

  • UtahCentrist Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    Actually, Chris B, it highlights why the ban on homosexual leaders is pointless. Being gay and being a pedophile are two ENTIRELY different things. Most pedophiles, including those who prey on boys, broadcast themselves to the world as "straight men." Most gays, just like most straight people, are 100% opposed to the exploitation of children.

    A man who is openly gay and wants to be a scout leader is probably far-less likely to be a danger. He is being honest about himself and by doing so, parents who are leery about inappropriate behavior will be 100% informed of his orientation before they ever send their child out. Nothing hidden and therefore less chance of ulterior motives.

    If the person is actually a pedophile who is looking to get in a position to exploit children, then they will lull children and parents in to a false sense of security. By banning "homosexuals" from scouts, the BSA is actually providing perfect cover for the kind of predator who would abuse a child. He's a leader, he must be straight and trustworthy!

    The ban on scout leaders of all orientations is self-defeating when it comes to preventing abuse.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    This is a sad reminder of why the Boy Scouts does not allow homosexual leaders. Although most homosexuals are probably fine people, it is not safe for a man attracted to other males to be taking the neighbor boys camping.

    I hope the victim get the help they need