Let's find solutions to gun violence

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  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    The founding fathers already figured it out. Get yourself all signed up in the state military. Done.

    Switzerland guarantees the right to own a gun, but they also require military service.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Sept. 27, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    There is simply a violent past, present and future to human nature. If you leave guns around your home in easy access even to yourself you are increasing the risk of the amount of violence one can do when set off.

    It's fairly naive even at this point in history to say that only abnormal human psychology results in homicidal violence. NORMAL human psychology very often results in violence.

    What we have the opportunity to do now is use more sophisticated DEFENSE strategies and tools to keep ourselves safe.

    But keeping you and your family safe isn't really what it's all about is it? You always want a bigger gun don't you but it's never enough?

    But scared women buy exactly 1 gun, and they don't going spouting off about them because a male gun nut has an entirely different need being filled by his guns. It's not about safety to gun nuts, it's about filling an evil hunger that can't be filled. All vices are the same that way.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Sept. 27, 2013 4:29 a.m.

    Obviously, more guns will do the trick. The guns nuts in my family have run out of room and and now giving guns as presents. Buy a gun save the world?

  • cmbennett1 OGDEN, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 12:38 a.m.

    for all the correlation between guns and violent crimes please remember a cardinal rule of Statistics: Correlation Does NOT equal Causation.

  • Alaskn Hooper, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    This article is written like a gun control enthusiast would want it written; devoid of accurate facts but full of supposed facts based on poll numbers.
    Facts come from the DOJ and other sources gathered and reported in an unbiased manner.
    Polls are written in such a way as to influence answers given the way polsters want them spun.
    The facts state that the majority of the horrific mass murders committed in recent years were done so by mentally ill persons who were known to be mentally unstable but not institutionalized and/or not entered into a database that would keep them from buying a weapon.
    As the facts point out, cities with the strictest gun laws, that already require the most stringent background checks and the harshest penalties for crimes with guns, are also the ones with the highest murder by gun and crime by gun rates in the nation.
    Current laws need to be inforced before more are inacted. We don't need more laws, we need more enforcement so I disagree and the facts support my disagreement.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Sept. 26, 2013 11:25 a.m.


    It means it is not a problem that can be fixed by creating more laws. It is not a problem because of laws. It is a bad people problem.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Sept. 26, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    What I can't wait to see is President Hillary in 2017 propose a mental health policy to address the issue of continued mass killings, and then watch all the gun rights advocates go nuts over the despotic and Nazi like proposal.

  • UT Brit London, England
    Sept. 26, 2013 2:54 a.m.

    @Mainly Me

    When you can get a standard definition of "violent crime" then you can compare statistics. The US counts around 4 crimes in that definition. The UK counts around 25.

    "England banned firearms"

    Better tell that to some of my friends who go hunting. Apparently their legally owned rifles and shotguns are illegal according to you. They will no doubt be upset.

  • Neanderthal Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 26, 2013 12:06 a.m.

    @the truth:
    "Gun violence problems are cultural and moral and educational not statutorial."

    Gun ownership is not statutorial (whatever that is). Gun ownership is Constitutional as you'll see by carefully read the 2nd Amendment.

  • Mr. Bean Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 25, 2013 11:03 p.m.

    "The law states that it is illegal to sell guns to somebody who cannot legally posses them."

    Here's a revelation... everyone can legally possess a gun. Says so in the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment. It says '... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

    @2 bits:
    "Are you saying automobiles should be outlawed too?"

    Good point. Automobiles kill more people than guns.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:51 p.m.

    "Let's find solutions to gun violence"

    The answer is quite simple...

    Since the Constitution allows everyone to 'keep and bear arms' and it also allows for amendments... it would seem that an amendment to Amendment two which would limit arms to some degree, such as required background checks, would be in order. As it now stands no one can be denied keeping and bearing arms. Not even criminals or the insane.

    But, our politicians continue to hide under their desks in their offices on this issue.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    Gun violence problems are cultural and moral and educational not statutorial.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 6:17 p.m.

    @Mainly Me
    "England banned firearms, yet they still have the 2nd highest violent crime rate in Europe."

    There's no way England is higher than a lot of the former Soviet bloc nations. Do you mean Western Europe because I'd be inclined to believe that?

    "The number of lives saved from the right to bear arms is far and away higher than the number of lives that would be saved by implementing any policy outlined here or anywhere else on capital hill."

    I'd like to know how allowing high capacity magazines for public purchase helps make anyone safer.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    An estimated 40% of all firearms sold in the U.S. are transferred by unlicensed “private” sellers.

    Gun offenders overwhelmingly obtain their guns through private sales. A survey of state prison inmates in 13 states who were convicted of gun offenses found that only 13.4% obtained the gun from a gun store or pawnshop where a background check was required. Nearly all (96.1%) of those inmates who were already prohibited from possessing a gun at the time of the crime obtained the firearm through an unlicensed private seller.

    Six states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island) and D.C. require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers.

    Processing transfers by private sellers through licensed dealers or a law enforcement agency helps to ensure that a background check will be conducted prior to any transfer.

    California, Colorado, Delaware, and New York all firearm transfers must be processed through licensed dealers, who must conduct background checks.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    "The right wing gun nuts may not have the total solution, but what is the left wing gun nuts solution?"

    The "wing nuts" on both sides seldom, if ever, have good solutions.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    Samuel Clemens: "Everyone complains about the weather, but no one does anything about it." Please offer a workable, common sense set of actions to minimize gun related crimes that recognizes the Constitution, ACLU actions, mental health professionals and the fact that there are more than 300,000,000 firearms in the US.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    All The mass shootings over the last several years starting with trolley Square have been in gun free zones. Given this we ought to consider making gun free zones illegal they're just too dangerous.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    I hate to be pessimistic but the only thing we're going to be allowed to do is exactly what the politicians and the NRA who own them want us to do. Nothing. And we shall reap the rewards of that change.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    Irony Guy

    The right wing gun nuts may not have the total solution, but what is the left wing gun nuts solution?

    How can the government know who has bad intentions and who doesn't... just from a phone call?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    one old man,
    What are you trying to say? Just say it. I'm not good at reading between the lines.

    Are you saying automobiles should be outlawed too?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    To "Miriam Walkingshaw" we already have the legal requirement to have background checks done for gun sales. Gun dealers have it spelled out quite clearly that they must do backgrond checks. The problem is that for private sales, the law isn't as clear and is not enforced. The law states that it is illegal to sell guns to somebody who cannot legally posses them. Rather than pass another uninforcable law, how about we enforce the laws that we already have.

  • Freedom Seeker Riverton, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    Those on the left are right on one point, lock up the crazies; but are wrong on their second point. The crazies will never apply for a background check, required by a new law, knowing they will fail. They will just steal a gun like they do now.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    How many law-abiding citizens have used firearms to commit a crime? The answer is obvious. There are NO lawabiding citizens who commit crimes, with or without a firearm, yet look at how many people want to take away the freedoms of law-abiding citizens to somehow keep criminals from committing crimes. Is there anything more preposterous? Why not just enforce martial law and keep everyone off the streets? Why not just require somekind of "pass" before we're allowed to mingle with society?

    People cause crimes. If they don't use a gun, they will use a knife or a baseball bat. Criminals don't obey laws. Passing more laws won't turn criminals into law-abiding citizens.

    Of course no one wants violence, but punishing those who obey the law will not stop violence. We have 2nd amendment rights because the founding fathes knew that people would abandon all logic to "guarantee" security when they wanted to feel warm and fuzzy instead of being responsible for personal action.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:03 p.m.


    "Well, it looks like the consensus of many is that if we cant fix the problem 100%, then there is no need to do anything."

    That is a big wrest from, "we will not stop these killings, not even with 100% background checks."

    NOt even close to what I said.

    I am in favor of addressing the problem, which mental illness. If we can have the NSA spying on our every call and internet click, surely it isn't too much to have mental illness logged.

    Just think, here in little ol' Salt Lake City, we just had a mass murder averted by preemptive intervention for someone recognized as mentally ill.

    So let's do more of that, because it works!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    In 2010, 31,076 Americans died of gunshot wounds. 73,505 were treated at hospitals and survived.

    In 2009, 30,797 Americans died in traffic accidents. No information on injured who survived.

    Very interesting numbers.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Irony Guy,
    The "right wing gun nutz" may not have the solution, but neither does the government worshiping left.

    Like you lamented... "how do we know who's crazy and who isn't unless we CHECK UP ON THEM". How does the Government know they are crazy? They don't. They can't!

    And if the government tries to identify every nut who doesn't deserve 2nd amendment rights... it's very subject to abuse (labeling someone "unfit" for speaking out on Common Core, or attending a tea party rally, etc).

    IMO the government CAN'T know every person's mental state. But WE KNOW when people we live with are unstable. Think about it... in every case we've had lately, the perpetrator got the weapon after passing a background check... PASSING! OR... they got the weapon from their parents (or other relative).

    IMO the Parents, wives, etc, should have known they were unstable and prevented their access to guns (the government can't check on every citizen as frequently as we should check on the mental state of our own children, parents, etc).

    Don't allow unstable children access to guns. Whether they bought, borrowed or stole them.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 11:07 a.m.


    The study I cited looked at felony homicides, not suicides. But they also noted:

    "Studies have shown that individual gun ownership is related to an increased risk of being a homicide victim."

    But in a 2013 study, published in the American Journal of Epidemiology, Dr.Matthew Miller and colleagues point out a striking statistic. In 2010, 22,000 people attempted suicide with a gun, and all but 2,000 were successful. If one out of every 10 of those people used something other than a gun, about 1,900 additional people would have lived.

    A new study by a coalition of gun-control groups, including Mayors Against Illegal Guns, found that in states that have implemented "stand your ground" laws, the number of justifiable homicides has skyrocketed.

    The rate is up 53 percent in 22 states, according to the study. In Florida, the average annual rate is up 200 percent. In states that do not have those laws, the rate has declined marginally.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    The only obvious solution is more guns. Guns, guns for everyone!

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    The right wing gun nuts have no intention of helping with this problem. They have no solutions, no suggestions, no recommendations, other than "lock up the crazies." But how do we know who's crazy and who isn't unless we CHECK UP ON THEM when they try to buy a firearm? Their circular arguments take us nowhere but back to the killing field.

  • Freedom Seeker Riverton, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    All you naive people who think evil, criminals obey laws need to wake up. Evil people don't go through the legal process to get their guns so adding more laws won't help the problem. Pass all the laws you want about gun ownership and it won't help, evil people will continue to get guns from the black market or steel them themselves just like they always have done.

    One problem is there is nothing to deter an evil person from committing mass murder by any means. The worst thing we can do to a mass murder is sentence them to death which takes decades to accomplish. They just don't care about their life; most of them are willing to give their life for their cause, and many even commit suicide when they have finished their evil deed. Do you really think they will care about any new laws you pass? Do you not realize murder is illegal already? Let's wake up, the evil person is the problem not the method they use to commit murder, mass or otherwise.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    I hate to break this to you Miriam, but our political leaders can't stop gun violence. It's up to US.

    Our leaders can't be everywhere at all times, and just making a law doesn't prevent bad-guys from getting the weapons illegally.

    It's up to you and I to prevent gun violence. We can't offload that responsibility to our political leaders. Only YOU know if a family member is mentally disturbed or would harm people if he got a gun. The Government doesn't know!

    WE... need to keep guns out of the hands of our family members that would abuse that gun. Not the government.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    JoeBlow said it well.
    For those who live in a black and white all or nothing world, if only the world were so simple.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 25, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    Well, it looks like the consensus of many is that if we cant fix the problem 100%, then there is no need to do anything.

    So, lets remove all laws pertaining to drugs/alcohol, gambling and speeding, prostitution, and heck, might as well add Murder to the list.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    Background checks seemed to fail when it came to the killers in Aurora, Sandy Hook and the Washington navy yard. Don't you think we just need to improve on the background checks we already have in place before we expand them?

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Why have more background checks? They wouldn't have stopped any of the recent shooters from getting the weapons because background checks only address criminal records.

    Until we are prepared to address the mental illness issue, we will not stop these killings, not even with 100% background checks. We couldn't even stop them with a gun ban. These psychos would just used a a different weapon, like bombs, or homemade guns.

    Deal with the mental illness and you can make a real difference.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Every time a mass shooting/killing takes place we have this same "discussion" and we get no where. For a certain portion of the population, those who own and promote gun ownership, even those who do it legally, are seen in a negative light because they seem reluctant to find a solution and seem more devoted to their defensive position of staunchly supporting their right to bear arms.

    It seems illogical to me that those gun owners/supporters would not want to find a solution to a problem that paints an unfair, negative picture of law abiding gun owners. By eliminating the access of guns to those who should not have them for mental health or other reasons, it will only enhance a strong gun rights position for those who choose to own and use guns for lawful purposes. To refuse to even talk about solutions is irresponsible.

    Yes, prayer, strengthening the family and education should be promoted in the nation for more reasons than just violence, but a discussion about how to limit or erase access to those guns by the wrong people should also be part of our conversation.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    Truthseeker: what percentage of those deaths are from suicide versus felony homicides? Do those laws reduce gun-related crimes? How many crimes have been averted because of those laws?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    A study by Professor Michael Siegel at Boston University and two coauthors, has been peer-reviewed and is forthcoming in the American Journal of Public Health. Siegel and his colleagues compiled data on firearm homicides from all 50 states from 1981-2010, the longest stretch of time ever studied in this fashion, and set about seeing whether they could find any relationship between changes in gun ownership and murder using guns over time.

    They found a robust relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates,

    They found that states with higher levels of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.
    (Sept 2013)

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    I would support everything the writer has written, and I didn't even read it, if I thought it would do anything to stop what he wants to stop. The number of lives saved from the right to bear arms is far and away higher than the number of lives that would be saved by implementing any policy outlined here or anywhere else on capital hill. With all due respect, educating people about their God-given rights and formulating a written policy from our leaders that supports family life, prayer, and education will do infinitely more than a law that does nothing more than lecture us that government has the answers, if you will just get behind its efforts to take away a God-given right.

  • Freedom Seeker Riverton, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    How can you be so naive to think passing another law will fix the mass shooting problem. The recent shooters at the Navy Base violated several laws already on the books. They obviously don't care about following laws, they are evil and evil people will never follow laws. If it were possible to get rid of all guns, which it isn't do you think the evil would stop? No, they will use some other means; bombs, vehicles, planes, etc. We can't enforce all the laws on the books now, more won't help. Please wake up to reality.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    Amen! Congress is doing rhe bidding of the NRA and those of us who agree with you are not showing up to vote and not making our voices heard.


    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes."

    The vast majority of violent crimes are aggravated assaults, and this is a category that isn’t as well defined as homicides, rapes and robberies.

    Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison. We rate the claim False.

    Furthermore--the homicide rate in the U.S. is 4.8/100,000 while in the UK it is 1.2/100,000

    Sept. 25, 2013 6:44 a.m.

    The real problem is violent behavior. Violent behavior is not caused by guns. By promoting increased scrutiny of gun sales - which is not necessarily a bad thing if done prudently - the author and others divert attention from the real problem, which is a broad range of mental and emotional disorders in people. In addition to ensuring that these people don't have easy access to weapons of any kind, not just guns, we ought to understand what produces these kinds of problems. When I look at articles about the recent mass shooters, I don't see anything about how they were raised. Do they come from broken homes? Did they spend more of their waking hours in day care centers than home when they were growing up? How did they come to be so dysfunctional? What can we do differently to reduce the ranks of the maladjusted and the mentally ill?

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Sept. 25, 2013 6:08 a.m.

    Thank you for your courageous essay promoting a common sense approach to the tragic circumstances that have plagued every aspect of our national life. Whether it is a shopping mall in Salt Lake City, a university campus in Virginia, a movie theatre in Colorado or a classroom full of first graders in Connecticut, gun violence has intruded on the safety we used to feel.

    The gun rights supporters will be quick to point out that guns aren't the problem, but people are the problem. And they are right. So let's do all we can to prohibit those "people" who threaten our safety from getting access to the guns that have been used to bring such sorrow and grief to out citizens. The Constitution guarentees out right to bear arms but, as my father used to say, with every right comes a responsibilty. And the responsible thing for all of us to do is to support increased background checks that would stop dangerous people from easily obtaining guns and jeopardizing the rights of law abiding citizens who want access to guns for hunting, recreation or for thier personlal safety. Support of such legislation is the responsible thing to do.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    Sept. 25, 2013 12:35 a.m.

    Why is the weapon being demonized? What about the lack of morals? How about the breakdown of the family unit? England banned firearms, yet they still have the 2nd highest violent crime rate in Europe. Why didn't that ban work? Now they want to ban long pointed knives. When will they realize that you can't ban stupidity or legislate common sense.