Controversial article debates sending daughters to college

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  • lledwards38 Canandaigua, NY
    Sept. 18, 2013 5:08 a.m.

    Why is a "degree without being educated" more valued for men than for women? Givien that mind set, it would seem that college is wasted on men and women. I'll always be grateful that my parents, who both worked their way through college during the depression, encouraged and supported my sisters and I to get an education. Just as they did our brothers.

    When my kids were grown, I went back to school for a graduate degree. My education in social work really began after I graduated and went to work. But the degree made it possible for me to get a job.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Sept. 17, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    It would be great if we could just learn and not need a degree to get a good job, but that just isn't how it's working is it? Now back to the real world until sanity comes back to the crazy college system we have.

    In the next 10 years or so we may see websites like Coursera bring online classes with true credit that one can obtain a job with, but for now nobody is granting interviews on ability alone. Seems crazy when said out loud doesn't it?

    Sept. 17, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    A small correction, that will matter to no one but me. There were nine in our family, but only seven children.

    It only seemed like nine. Actually, it seemed like four hundred and seventy-three, but that's another story.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    To "Truth Machine" you should read the original article. If you did, you would see that if women followed their advice, that there would be fewer divorces and fewer instances where you have a single mother that needs to get a job.

    You are making the same mistake that most others have made. Yes you need a degree for many jobs, but outside of science related fields you typically just need a degree. Your education and marketable job skills come from the self education that you seek out.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 11:07 a.m.


    "What most of you are doing is equating college with education."

    Try getting a decent job with only an "education".

    Education is important regardless of the source, but if you're a single mother (for whatever reason) trying to support a family, having a college degree can be the difference between being stuck in a minimum wage job and living on food stamps, or having a well-payed job and being self-sufficient.

    Sept. 17, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    RedShirt MIT makes a couple of troubling statements. First, you're right: the author differentiates between "college" and "education", citing the rich pageant that is the Internet as all the education anyone needs.

    Who shepherds the student through the Internet? Who provides the direction, training, and critical evaluation necessary to separate real learning from, say, conspiracy theories and Photoshopped images of sharks attacking helicopters? Where is the peer review that drives progress in disciplines like science, technology and the arts? (Try doing a writing workshop online. It's a joke.) Most people don't have the discipline to be self-taught.

    And what constitutes "responsible manhood"? In my family's case, Dad was a construction worker, who worked six and sometimes seven days a week to support a wife and nine kids. Mom stayed at home, because they decided that was best for the children. He was a responsible man. Dad had an insurance policy, a good one for a robust young man in perfect health, but not nearly enough to cover the debts incurred during his cancer treatments. Cancer is no respecter of persons, not even responsible ones.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 10:45 a.m.


    I don't know what your last job interview was like, but the last job I applied for and was interviewed for didn't ask which great book I had read, which websites I looked at, or what library I frequented. They asked me what College I went to and what my degree was.

    And while life insurance is important, aren't marketable skills important as well?

    It took my wife a year of working as a receptionist at a doctor's office after high school to get her into college, where she earned her Bachelor's Degree and Master's Degree in Elementary Education where she has a great job doing what she loves to do.

    It took my daughter six months of working at the Training Table to push her into post-high-school educational pursuits.

    If your life plan is to "make sure you marry a guy with good life insurance" then you are not properly preparing your daughters for adult life.

  • AmberDru Xenia, OH
    Sept. 17, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    If you get a degree but not necessarily an education at college, couldn't the same be said for men?

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    Apparently, the author believes that women should, indeed, be kept barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. Oh yes... and wearing a burka. He seems to view women as empty-headed ninnies, unable of taking responsibility for themselves and their behavior; empty vessels waiting to be led astray by bad men and bad ideas. Oddly enough, in my sixty-five years on this planet, I've yet to meet more than a small handful of women (and men, for that matter) who meet this description.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Sept. 17, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Wow, it is amazing at how poorly people read this article. She is very clear that women should be educated. What most of you are doing is equating college with education. The article states "Many wise people in years past obtained great educations by seeking knowledge from books and good material. Today, anyone can learn anything they want with the vast library system across the country and with the easy access of the Internet. So the real reason girls go to college is for a degree, not an education."

    She even explained that if a woman marries a responsible man, and he dies early in their marriage, she will be taken care of because he would have purchased enough life insurance that she can live off of that for a very long time.

  • CG Orem, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    The author of this article needs to re-read his Bible, particularly, the second half of this scripture:

    Proverbs 4:7: "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

  • l.cee Ridgefield, WA
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:53 a.m.

    The article, it seems, was written to generate comments. How difficult was it for the DN author to write an article of an article and include responses to the article? Not hard, I suspect. And since this newspaper's audience is generally LDS, the author should have included the LDS perspective on women and college.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    President Hinckley told women that the sky is the limit. Ridiculous article. Mature educated women don't date the wrong type of men.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:34 a.m.

    I think the author makes a couple of points if you can separate them from the conclusion he draws, which I have a hard time arriving at.

    College is big business, and growing bigger. Many occupations really do not require four years of college/university seat time. In order to grow and attract more students, hence bigger budgets and more employees, colleges have supplanted trade schools and apprenticeships as a training modality for the work force. Hence we have costly training for entry level employment and the need for two incomes

    I feel his concern for the life-style of some college campuses, it can be very hedonistic, self centered and worldly. The lack of adult supervision of college students is a problem, but since we lowered the age of majority to 18 for political correctness there is no liability for colleges as supervisors of young people.

    College education has been dumbed-down to be able to include more ill-prepared students. Classic literature, languages and the arts are not required, extensive reading is not required to be supplemented with fluffy courses are substituted by equally ill-educated staff, some of whom are hired for politically correct reasons.

  • SP Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    I am embarrassed to see this article in the Deseret News. Why give any more attention to such a negative, backwards argument?

  • Samuel B Martineau Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:18 a.m.


    One person does not represent a group so vast and varied as people of religious belief. That seems pretty obvious right? I mean, I hope that your just trolling and don't really feel that you can use this person as an example for what all religious people believe.

    Just as easily I could take Bill Ayer's bombing of the pentagon and say "Thank you for making my argument that democrats are violent kooks and should be marginalized." Or I could take one stupid comment made by an atheist and say "thank you for making my argument that atheists are all stupid and nothing that comes out of their mouths can be considered seriously," but then my arguments would be ridiculous right?

    You do understand that your comment consists of one of the most basic logical fallacies right?

    Anyway, religion does an awful lot of good in the world. From charitable hospitals, to food banks, and teaching people to love each other. And various studies indicate that religious people give more to both religious and non religious charities. Marginalizing religion would do a great deal of harm in the world.

    Sept. 17, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    “After looking at the issues we raise, we would challenge anyone to convince us that college for girls is not a near occasion of sin,”

    I believe not getting an education is a DIRECT sin!

  • Susan in VA Alexandria, VA
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Oh my.... in what century was this written? Seriously? I certainly hope this person has neither wife nor daughters.

  • Monk Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 17, 2013 7:09 a.m.

    The headline for this feature is offensive.

    Sept. 17, 2013 6:51 a.m.

    My mother did not attend college. My father died at age 39, leaving my 36 year old mother with seven kids, ranging in age from two to sixteen. The next fifteen years of her life was a constant grind of menial jobs and night school and crushing, crushing poverty. The aftereffects of those days still resonate through our family.

    Mom grew up in a time when "good Christian girls" didn't pursue "selfish" goals like education. They married straight out of high school, and started having babies. She was in her Fifties when she earned her degree. Earning a degree as a young woman would have given her skills and training to negotiate the temporal challenges posed by my father's death.

    As a father, I have a responsibility not only to encourage my daughter's educational pursuits, but to expect her to get all the education she can. Anything less, and I'm failing her, and failing in my parental stewardship.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 17, 2013 6:04 a.m.

    I know my opinion on this is a bit whack-o, but I largely hold men (me being a member of this group) responsible for generations of women who lived their lives marginalized. If you look at the sometimes abusive and downright condescending way women were treated in the past, no wonder the feminist movement erupted onto the scene.

    It is entirely possible for people to have differing roles, and yet each is held in respect. Successful working relationships happen between peers, equals, contributing to each of their own capabilities. An educated man should have as a spouse a women who is his intellectual equal. It is the only way for them to grow together. As soon as there is any semblance of dominion one over the other, then you open the doors to abusive behavior.

    Your spouse should be your peer. She should be your equal. By all means women should be as educated, or more so, then their spouses. Women should be in marriages because they choose to, not need to.

  • On the other hand Riverdale, MD
    Sept. 17, 2013 5:07 a.m.

    I'm grateful for a wife with a college education. It makes her a better partner, a better parent, and a more fulfilled person in general. Plus, I never would have met her if she hadn't made the decision to go to college. Based on our experience, we'll be encouraging our daughters to go to college as well.

  • DistantThunder Vincentown, NJ
    Sept. 16, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    LDS women have the highest educational achievement rates in the US, surpassed only by Jewish women.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 16, 2013 6:25 p.m.

    Thank you for making my argument that religion is so archaic and paternalistic that we must do everything we can to marginalise it further.

  • BYUCOLORADO Castle Rock, CO
    Sept. 16, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    The religious right makes itself seem even more insane posting articles like this. It is painful to read. Not only that, but the logic implies that the person writing isn't familiar with remedial principles of reasoning. Which only furthers the opposition's point of why people should attend college...