who else offered the young man?
I'm just saying I'd make sure my high school sophomore son realized if
he ends up being highly sought after, it may have been wise to have waited
before committing to a team that may be left on the outside looking in.-----------First, we are talking about a basketball recruit. If
BYU somehow ends up on the outside looking in, it is going to mean Gonzaga and
Georgetown are too. Don't see it happening.Regarding football
where this is certainly possible, if the power conferences really are to leave
the NCAA I suspect that BYU would end up with a football-only arrangement with
someone. It is documented that when the Big 12 moved to invite TCU, the media
partners had expressed significant concerns over BYU's refusal to play on
Sunday and the Big 12 basketball tournament. Given we've lately seen both
Cal and Stanford (the two supposed issues for BYU and the Pac) schedule football
series' with BYU, I'm not sure that the Pac 12 is out of the question
should conferences expand to 14 or 16 to feed a playoff.
"Chris BSalt Lake City, UTWell he's not quite
Brekkot Chapman, who you guys wanted.But congratulations, I
guess?"Brekkot Chapman wouldn't have lasted five minutes
living under the constraints of the BYU honor code but, nice try.Congrats on finally getting a good basketball player to pick Utah though.
Great Choice Frank. Most people in basketball circles know that Frank is the
top Sophomore prospect in the State. I am sure he would have gotten offers from
Stanford, UCLA and Arizona if he wanted them, he is that good. He has a good
chance to be a top 50 recruit in the next 3 years. This is a wake up call for
the other universities out there. You need to identify the talent early or you
will be left out.
motorbikeThere's no realistic scenario where the big 5 football
conference teams will split completely from the NCAA in all sports. Do you
honestly think that powerhouse basketball programs like Georgetown, St
John's and Syracuse would be left on the outside looking in at a small
scale version of the NCAA basketball tournament?And, what of all of
the other NCAA sports like water polo, skiing, ice hockey, and many other sports
that wouldn't have enough teams to continue competition if schools outside
of the big 5 were excluded?For example, Utah and Colorado are the
ONLY big 5 conference teams that compete in skiing. What would they do, have a
duel meet every year to determine the division 4 "national
DuckhunterRe: "Any pay for athletes system would take an
extremely long time to implement... resulting lawsuits and litigation could drag
on for a decade. During that time those that could afford to operate under such
a system will work out an alignment to do so."Good point
regarding lawsuits and litigation.But my point is that a guy like
Frank could wait two years and would STILL be committing early, why not wait for
more information?As far as "those that can afford" to do so
will be allowed to do so; It's not impossible, but it would first take the
NCAA and then individual conferences allowing it. If the WCC approves stipends
at that point, what's the amount?If stipends are allowed by
all, many programs will be finished and there will be a lot of realigning.
You'd then still have to ask the question, will these conferences be
included in what the "power-5" are doing?Again, this is my
point ... too many questions for a kid with options. Rivalry aside, I'd
lean more strongly than ever to a "power-5" team unless money and the
toughest competition didn't matter to me.
You go with what's important to you, and what you stand for.You
don't make decisions based on someones ignorance of you.
@motorbikeIt is correct. Schools that can afford it would be part of
any system of that type, schools that cannot afford it would not. Any pay for
athletes system would take an extremely long time to implement even if they
announced it today, the resulting lawsuits and litigation could drag on for a
decade. During that time those that could afford to operate under such a system
will work out an alignment to do so. There is zero concern that BYU would not be
part of any such system, they are far to big, rich, powerful, and accomplished
not to be.
kaysvillecougarRe: "I doubt however that there will be pay for
athletes in the next 2-3 yrs. If that does happen, it would be football first
and then basketball(less likely). By the way, I also appreciate your gracious
tone. This can be a great rivalry and we can still have mutual respect."First of all thanks for the compliment, and thanks for your
"gracious tone" as well. By the way, I have A LOT of BYU fan relatives
up your way in Kaysville, UT. And I absolutely agree that the Utah/BYU rivalry
can, and certainly should, have the mutual respect you mentioned.One
thing I wanted to point out from your comment... you mention doubting the pay
for athletes would happen in the next 2-3 years. That would mean decisions would
need to be made in 1-2 years. In two years Frank Jackson would be entering his
senior year which is exactly when most kids make their EARLY verbal commitments.
That right there really is the main point I've been trying to make.Good luck to your Cougars (just not Sept 21st) :)
Ernest T, I agree with Football 43. You've given us much better in the
past. @ Motorbike, good comments. I doubt however that there will be pay
for athletes in the next 2-3 yrs. If that does happen, it would be football
first and then basketball(less likely). By the way, I also appreciate your
gracious tone. This can be a great rivalry and we can still have mutual respect.
Duckhunter ..."Don't fool yourself that current conference
status is the main determinant under such a system. Ability to afford such a
system is far more a factor."I actually expected that response
from you or someone else and I understand it, but it's not correct. Where I agree with you is that BYU has the money to do just as the power
5 can do. For football, this means they could likely be included in some way or
another, even as an independent. But basketball is a different story
wherein they're part of the West Coast Conference. All the money in the
world will not allow them to have that competitive advantage over their
conference brothers. So if the WCC or the NCAA doesn't allow stipends, then
BYU basketball will not be paying stipends ... period.
@MotorbikeBYU is in no danger at all if they institute some kind of
stipend for athletes, BYU runs a multi million dollar athletic department
surplus. Nor are they in any danger of being left out of anything. The deciding
factors if something like that ever occurs will be financial more than anything
else. What schools can afford such a system is far more relevant than what
conference you may be in. If a school is currently in one of those 5
conferences but simply cannot make it work finanacially then they will not be
part of anything of that kind. Liekwise schools that are highly funded and
highly successful across the board in multiple sports, like BYU, will easily be
able to take that change and still thrive in it. Don't fool
yourself that current conference status is the main determinant under such a
system. Ability to afford such a system is far more a factor.
Ernest T.Dude, is that all you got? I'm disappointed.......
Truth MachineRe: "...if you're good enough, the NBA will
find you regardless of whether you play at Kentucky or SW Podunk U."Another fair comment and I do agree with you. However, I don't
think anyone would disagree that the constant limelight of a major program
increases your exposure and ensures that if you're a true talent you can
minimize the risk of going unnoticed or less noticed.But there was
more to my NBA comment than being noticed, it's the fact that scouts are
seeing you play against stronger talent game-in and game-out. Less questions
about your game, meaning a higher likelihood of getting drafted with a
guaranteed contract versus having to go the Brandon Davies route. Sorry, that
wasn't a direct slam on BYU, just a recent example of the point I'm
Wiscougarfan,First of all, I enjoy your comments just as I typically
enjoy those from Y Grad / Y Dad and from Duckhunter. Yes, I said Duckhunter
which is blasphemy to many Ute fans. I personally think he's toned it down
and usually speaks the truth while still trying to rile folks up a bit - all in
good fun I say).But I have to respectfully disagree with this
comment of yours:""while paying student-athletes to play
football is highly unlikely I would say that it is nigh impossible for
basketball players."The stipend has been talked about in several
places as being for more than just football players. A quick search led me to
this quote without even looking at other links: "Of special concern for the
MWC is Title IX compliance and how the stipend would apply to scholarship
sports." - mwcconnectionI'm just saying I'd make sure
my high school sophomore son realized if he ends up being highly sought after,
it may have been wise to have waited before committing to a team that may be
left on the outside looking in.
As always had the young man chosen Utah, then Chris B and friends would be
singing praises rather than trying to find negatives to toss out. Another
interesting note is that the pro-Utah people failed to mention is that the Utes
would have loved to have this kid playing for them at Huntsman.
Duckhunter"...you're fooling yourself if you don't
think your own utah bias isn't playing a factor in your opinion here. If,
as phantomblade pointed out, this kid had given a committment to krystkowiak
yesterday you would have been posting a much different opinion."__________Yes and No. If he were to have committed to Utah
I'd certainly have been happy, but I'd still question the very same
things I mentioned with exception of the "paid to play" comment being
that Utah is already in one of those 5 conferences.Realize that Utah
hasn't even offered Frank. I do know they were/are interested in Frank, but
I also know they told him they wanted to see him play more this year since he
was hurt for a portion of his very good freshman year at Lehi. A major advantage
BYU has over Utah in this case is that Frank lives much closer to the Y and
spent all summer playing on the BYU campus with guys on the team. Good for Dave Rose, I personally believe Frank will end up being incredibly
good ... thus the comments about Duke, Kentucky and Stanford.
@motorbikeYou make some good points but you're fooling yourself
if you don't think your own utah bias isn't playing a factor in your
opinion here. If, as phantomblade pointed out, this kid had given a committment
to krystkowiak yesterday you would have been posting a much different opinion.
But you are correct that he could have waited, but the truth is he
still is waiting. He cannot sign yet, if he turns out to be as good as coach
Rose thinks he is then other schools are going to come after him, they will not
care that he gave BYU a committment they will still give him offers and he can
still change his mind. I would venture that krystkowiak will give him an offer
at some point and he will have the choice to take him up on it. In
the meantime it is nice to know that BYU is the first choice, and dream
destination, for the vast majority of Utah's top basketball recruits. That
means on the rare occasions utah does get one it is time for christina to throw
a party because it doesn't happen often.
motorbike"Playing better competition, under brighter lights (NBA
attention),..."Utah fans love to spin this false narative, but
the truth is, if you're good enough, the NBA will find you regardless of
whether you play at Kentucky or SW Podunk U.John Stockton, Karl
Malone, Larry Bird and Scottie Pippen were all original Dream Teamers, yet none
of them played for big name schools.
RE: Motorbike"Additionally, some of you are in for a giant
surprise if you think only football players will get paid if/when the the power
5 breakaway happens. Do you really think men's basketball players
won't take issue with that? And what about Title IX? Thus my point of
letting it play out a bit more."While I agree with you that it
wouldn't hurt Jackson to wait before committing I do disagree with the
statement I've posted above. Basketball doesn't have nearly the same
kind of money behind it as football does and while paying student-athletes to
play football is highly unlikely I would say that it is nigh impossible for
basketball players. Sure they'll want to get paid, but the money just
won't be there like it could potential be for football. Cheers.
RE: Chris B. "Well he's not quite Brekkot Chapman, who you
guys wanted. But congratulations, I guess?"You’re right,
he’s not Brekkott Chapman. As a HS freshman Chapman didn’t play but
Jackson averaged 10 ppg and shot 50 percent from behind the arc. Against the
best team Chapman played in his whole high school career (Bountiful in the 4A
quarter finals) Chapman had 2 points. Meanwhile, as a freshman Jackson dropped
30 on Lone Peak, easily the best team in Utah and arguably the best team in the
country. Now Utah does get a proven commodity in Chapman, he was a
huge get (on par with most of BYU’s other recruits). While we’re
not quite sure what we’ve got with Jackson, even if he’s a bust the
future is very bright in Provo. 2013, 2014 in-state basketball
recruit rankings (Rivals/Scout/ESPN/Average)Chapman - Utah: 57, 79,
49 (#62)Haws - BYU: 63, 42, 48 (#51)Dastrup - ??: 77, 84, 85
(#82)Mika - BYU: 49, 38, 28 (#38)Emery - BYU: 89,78, 45 (#71)
Welcome Frank, you must of made Dave Rose really perked up after he had his
surgery. We will be watching LP again this year and see how you guys do. Have
Y Grad / Y DadThanks for the unemotional and unbiased comment.
It's far more enjoyable to discuss topics with reasonable fans like
yourself. Your point of Frank being LDS is a good one. There are
really only two D1 campuses in the country that can provide him the opportunity
to be surrounded by a lot of LDS students. So despite all my reasons why I think
it's silly to commit so early, if he KNOWS he wants that LDS BYU experience
above all else and doesn't see anything changing that, then perhaps his
early commitment is the right thing.As for the rest of the BYU fan
comments ... I suggest lessons in reading comprehension. Did I once mention
Utah? I also wasn't saying Frank shouldn't commit to BYU, I was simply
saying what's the hurry?Additionally, some of you are in for a
giant surprise if you think only football players will get paid if/when the the
power 5 breakaway happens. Do you really think men's basketball players
won't take issue with that? And what about Title IX? Thus my point of
letting it play out a bit more.
He doesn't want to play for the "fans" in salt Lake. He wants to
play for teams that make it clear to the sweet 16. Once.
Any player, who as a freshman no less, that can put up 30 points against the
best high school basketball team in the nation, is truly a great get. On
top of that, since he's been attending BYU basketball camps for years, so
both he and the BYU coaches know exactly what they are getting. A true
congratulations is in order to both him and BYU. BYU is continuing to take
steps to ensure it's intermountain dominance for years to come.
@Chris BHe may not be Brekkot Chapman, but not every recruit is (e.g.
Parker Van Dyke and Brandon Miller). Does BYU wish they got him? Of course, but
ultimately BYU is probably pretty happy with their incoming 4-star guys (Mika,
Haws and Emery) and the rest of the the 3-star gang (Hartsock, Worthington,
Seljaas, Collinsworh [returning], Nixon, Shaw) joining or returning to the
program over the next few years.
Motorbike, I won't be quite as dismissive of your questions as my fellow
couug fans, but I would add to your list of requisites the LDS factor.LDS kids have a tendancy to like to play at an LDS-centric university, and
this is not a factor to be dismissed or relegated to the second or third tier of
decision-making process.More than that, kids want to be a part of
something bigger than themselves. So, yes, the "what's in it for
me" factor, and getting the biggest piece of the pie you can is important,
but how many times have you heard (and perhaps mocked) a BYU recruit say,
"BYU is going to win a ntional championship, and I want to help make it
happen."Fans like Chris B may deride, but kids want to be a
contributing factor to something big, perhaps more than they want to be a bench
rider at a place with a better chance of actually competing for that national
Well he's not quite Brekkot Chapman, who you guys wanted.But
congratulations, I guess?
@motorbikeTime to put away your Pac-10.2 patch.The so called
Big-5 construct does not even apply to basketball or any other collegiate sport
other than football.Give it a rest.BYU has the inroads
to the best LDS recruits.It all shifted when Majerus was so dismissive of
his own assistant, Jeff Judkins, who was the main liaison between Utah's
recruiting and the LDS kids..It's the "Curse of the
Juddy".About 90 more years to go for U!.
I respect your comment Motorbike. There are a lot of things that a young man
should consider before making such a big decision. I think I just assume that
he has had lots of conversations with his parents about this and that his
parents have brought up many of the points you mention. Why do you assume that
they haven't?BYU is an excellent school (recently named one of
the Top Ten Values in a university education along with Harvard, Yale,
Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Dartmouth, Cornell, and.....I forgot the
other one). They also have an outstanding basketball program with one of the
best head coaches in America (wishing you the best Dave Rose).And,
if nothing else, it is the team he has always dreamed of playing for.He couldn't do much better than that. Congratulations Frank.
Welcome to the Cougars (in a few years).
If I received an offer that I considered "too good to pass up" I would
take it too.Harvard University is not much, if any, better than BYU
when it comes to academics. You must have a 4.0 gpa, be student body president
and drum major to get into Harvard. Their grads are successful because of the
raw material they receive, not because of the university.The same
goes for basketball. The coaching at Duke or Kentucky is great, but so is Dave
Rose. It comes down to raw material. It looks like the raw material that Dave
Rose is receiving will move BYU to the next level in the next few years.Congratulations on a dream come true Frank. I'll bet that Dave Rose
is pinching himself.
I hadn't even heard of Frank (probably since I don't live in Utah), so
I pulled up his stats. Wow! Very impressive for a Freshman. Averaged 10
points per game and 50% from beyond the arc. Lehi must have cried when he
transferred to Alpine, just like MB is with his commitment to BYU.BYU basketball has been very good the past decade, but it's going to be
even better the next 5 or 6 years.
Motorbike,The 5 power conference scenario if for football. There is
not talk about power conference breakout in basketball. Congratulations Frank.
motorbikeNice try, but obviously you wouldn't be nearly as
concerned if Frank had committed to down in the dumps Utah.Frank
committed to the best basketball program in the state, and incidentally, to play
where he has always dreamed of playing.Welcome aboard Frank!
Crazy to think that Frank may not be playing for BYU until the 2018-19
season.Frank has tons of potential and I wish him well. Having said
that, I question the adults around him. Even if I was the biggest Coug fan on
the planet and my son was being recruited by BYU prior to his sophomore season,
I'd be suggesting he not commit for quite a bit longer. What if
a free Stanford education comes a callin'? What if Duke or powerhouse
Kentucky knock on his door? Perhaps bigger than that, there's a lot of talk
about the 5 "power" conferences breaking away to form their own division
and such a division would likely include paying the athletes. Playing better competition, under brighter lights (NBA attention), with extra
financial perks, are things I'd make sure my kid was comfortable
forfeiting. I just don't see a reason not to let that play out a bit, the
kid's only a sophomore and could easily commit to BYU a year from now
instead (would still be early). But to each their own and I truly do
wish the best for Frank.