America ceased to be an exceptional nation incrementally, starting with FDR but
has accelerated in its decline most recently. Detroit is an example of the
decline of American exceptionalism and is the iconic product of the decline.
America has been fundamentally transformed.
I HAD to draw my own conclusion because you wouldn't answer my question in
a clear manner. So I ask you again in yet another way: was America exceptional
under Bush I or II, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, or any other president? Which
administration do you hold responsible for losing that exceptional status? When
did it happen?
SEY. You drew your own conclusion but its hard to argue with $20 trillion debt
isn't it? "Debt is the slavery of the free." Publilius Syrus of the
late, great Roman Empire.
So according to Mountanman and lost in DC, America lost its exceptional status
when Obama won the presidency. I give up.
I think most folks realize that Putin's motivation in writing the Op-Ed
piece was not to provide helpful suggestions on how the US might improve in its
role as a world leader. Anyone who thinks his self-serving piece grants him the
moral high-ground isn't paying attention to Putin's domestic and
foreign activities.Americans have never been shy about suggesting
how their political leadership might do a better job. That's certainly
true with respect to Syria. What troubles me is that there's
been a lot of talk about politics regarding Syria, but little talk about what
the US can, and should do, on a humanitarian basis for the victims of chemical
weapons. That should be the focus of both the citizens of the US and its
government as well.
I guess I'm slow on the uptake. What right does Putin have or not have? I
guess he can write an Op-Ed piece if he wants. And I guess the NY Times can
post if it they want (unalienable rights belong to all not just Americans). Can
Putin and Russia choose to intervene in Syria? I suppose it is their right to
intervene on our side, another side or not intervene at all. I
would say this lastly. Russia and Putin is not our friend. Just because the
Soviet Union doesn't exist doesn't mean we should expect to be buddies
with Russia and that they will do things in our best interest. I think with all
the focus on China, Iran, North Korea, Iraq and Islamic Jihadists in general,
that we have forgot about how dangerous Russia really is. Thankfully, Putin is
giving us a reminder.
@happy valley rhetoric, Every conservative I know of is outraged bu
Putin's op ed. Hamnity, Limbaugh, Beck, they all agree that Putin has no
right. Maybe you should get your facts straight before accusing
conservatives of anything.
Mike Richards,Sadly, it’s not only putin, but BO himself that has
shown the world he is all blusterLSD?libNowhere in
Mike’s comment does he defend putin. Is that your only defense of BO, to
misstate what someone else said? How sad. And even when the topic –
involving ourselves in the war in Syria – is something you have said in
the past you oppose, you still rise to BO’s defense and attack someone who
opposes BO. One-sided? Yep, "My enemy's enemy is my friend." I
fixed your grammar - you are welcome.Conspiracygirl,blaming
repubs for BO’s policies – how funny!! Oh, please stop, my sides
are aching!Joeblow,Defending America from all foes, foreign
and domestic IS patriotism, even if one is the current potus. And where does
Mike praise putin? Again, is that your best defense, to misstate your foe?Sey,We gradually became more selfish and less giving. Evidenced
by the re-election of a community organizer who promises free lunches and no
The whole entire world and every living and existing thing in it; and related to
it, is exceptional, so little people get over yourselves: you are not unique or
alone in this wonderful world.
@ SEY. When did America cease to be an exceptional nation? "A democracy will
continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote
themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the
public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due
to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
Alexander Tyler Our national debt is now $17 trillion and will be over $20
trillion when we choose our next President. No nation can or will survive that
Do most people in Utah now support Russia?
Putin's points are:1. Under international law, force is allowed only for
self defense or with the consent of the UN security counsel.2.Syria is not
witnessing a battle for democracy. 3. Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya demonstrate
that force can be ineffective and pointless. 4. If countries cannot count on
international law for security, they will seek weapons of mass destruction for
protection.5. No matter how targeted the strikes, there will be civilian
casualties. 6. If we can get Syria to turn over its chemical weapons without
force against the Syrian government, we all win.7. It is dangerous to encourage
people to see themselves as exceptional. There is nothing audacious or
misleading in his message.
Classic examples of -- "My enemies enemy is my friend."
Putin's trying to assert his relevance in the modern world of geopolitics.
As a longtime ally of Syria, Russia stands to incite retaliation from terrorist
organizations, sympathetic to the Syrian regime by opposing it. So yes,
he's looking out for himself and his country, and he's leverage global
disdain for America to do it. But no one can argue that they Syrian
conflict is a complex one. I think there are too many variables to take a clear
course of action. We're not even sure that if those fighting for control
are going to be any better than the current government. Our intervention is not
guaranteed to improve the situation. If we've learned anything from Iraq
and Afghanistan it's that when we simply hand people their freedom, it
doesn't mean as much having to fight for it (if freedom for all is the true
goal of the rebels.) We may need to just let the Syrians sort this one out
themselves, and perhaps our role should be to give humanitarian aid to all those
Look at how many are following the Deseret New's editorial staff in
attacking others without even considering the content of the comments. I could
hardly believe that the Deseret News would attack a world leader - even Putin -
without discussing what he had written on THIS subject. Has uncivility come to
the point that we should throw out the baby with the bath water? Is that what
freedom of speech means?Our heritage demands that we listen to the
comments of others before responding and that when we respond, we address the
comments made, without attacking the person. Putin has skeletons in
his closet. Those "skeletons" are between him, his people and God. They
have nothing to do with his article.Those who try to cite
"founding fathers" had better fully understand what those founding
fathers did. They stood up against the greatest power in the world and pledged
their all to bring forth a new nation. They did not blindy follow King George
(Obama) just because he was king.We need to understand that and we
need to respect those who have the courage to speak out against wrongdoing.
Mountanman: not that I'm trying to pick an argument with you, but I'm
just very, very curious: can you specify the approximate time when the U.S.
ceased being exceptional? In other words, the U.S. was exceptional until what
There was a thread in the DN a couple days ago discussing what Patriotism
meant.I guess to some, it means criticizing anything and everything
the current POTUS does, while praising the leader of a country whose roots are
communism.Do I have that right, Mr Richards? (who writes)"Obama is a disgrace to everything that represents America. If it takes
someone like Putin to wake up America to that fact, then we should be grateful
that Putin had the courage to tell us that Emperor Obama is wearing no clothes.
"Anyone think our founding fathers would have hailed statements
such as this as patriotic?I see very little of what I call
"patriotism" on the far right OR the far left.
Liberal,You have totally misread my posts. I have not defended
Obama against Putin. Putin is correct, no matter what his history or how he
rose to power. He has shown the world who Obama really is. Obama
is wrong - totally wrong - in wanting to bomb Syria. Obama is wrong
- totally wrong - in citing his authority as commander in chief to bomb a
country that has not harmed America.Obama is wrong - totally wrong -
in blustering on the world stage and telling us that "the world" drew a
red line over chemical weapons. That was Obama's line. He, and he alone,
is responsible for making that statement and he will reap the consequences of
acting out his fantasies on the world stage.
Gee Mike R., Putin's op-ed could have been written by you.He chastised the POTUS - Pres. Obama - you're sworn enemy, in the
New York Times and now your are defending Obama against Putin?Now, I
have it seen all.
It is totally cool that Putin wrote to a US newspaper, and it got printed. Are
we afraid to hear what he has to say? I'm not, and no one in the US should
be. We value free exchange of ideas, right?I do wonder if the State
Department had to approve it, and if they edited it.I also wonder if
it may have been the result of that talk Obama promised Putin, you know, when
he thought the mic was off and he promised they could talk more freely after the
election.Putin saved Obama's face in all this. He was either
going to have to bomb Syria, against most the country, and the world's
better judgment, or be humiliated. Putin's offer to negotiate getting the
chemical weapons out through diplomacy saved Obama's face with the world
and popularity in America. A win/win for Obama, but a lose for the US.Make no mistake, Putin is in it for him and his. Russia totally looks like the
reasonable, compassionate, rule of law country, and the USA looks like
Hitler's Germany, trying to control the world and having a 'superior
Look at the facts. Obama rattled his sabre at Syria. He had (and still has) no
idea who used the chemical weapons. He believed one side and ignored the other.
There are still no concrete facts supporting Obama's decision to bomb
Syria's military infrastructure.Obama claims that our
Constitution is what makes us great, even as he ignores it. He told the world
that the Republicans are destroying America, ignoring the fact that the PEOPLE
of the United States elected those Republicans to stand up for the principles
that America believes in. He refuses to execute the duties required of him. He
uses "executive orders" to circumvent Congress. If he believes in the
Constitution, his actions contradict his words.Putin reminded Obama
that the world does not support military action against Syria. That fact is
easily checked. Only France said that it "might" join forces with the
United States. No other 1st world nation has aligned itself with the United
States.Putin is a world leader. Honest people will listen to his
words and then evaluate his statements against known facts. Sadly, Putin has
shown the world that Obama is all bluster.
Happy Valley Heretic,You haven't been paying attention. The
Neocons LOVE Obama. They support his every move on foreign policy. The Neocons
(McCain, Graham, Bill Kristol) WANT a war in Syria. In fact, back when Obama
was bombing Libya, Bill Kristol congratulated Obama on becoming a born-again
neocon. The neocons want the NSA's surveillance state. They supported
Obama's NDAA -- advocating indefinite detention without trial and due
process. It is the paleoconservatives who don't want war in
Syria. The neocons have been losing influence in the GOP, heaven be praised.
Over the past number of years I have come to better understand the meaning of
American Exceptionalism. It means that every other nation shall abide by the
rule of law except us. Like it or not Putin is correct in his assessment of
American actions abroad. The USA is now regarded as the bully of the world.
Putin is also correct in stating that the terrorist rebels in Syria
are not interested in democracy. It's only our fool government that
believes that the Middle East wants to live by Western values and that the
weaker side in a conflict must be the more moral side. It is sad that our
community organizer president got outmaneuvered by a more experienced chess
player, but the idea that we should go to war and kill people so that Obama can
save face or "send a message" is sick beyond words.
America used to be an exceptional nation. But Putin, Obama and liberals have
completely misconstrued its meaning. America was exceptional because the vast
majority of people who have lived on this planet have been subjects to
dictators, kings, despots of big governments. America was the exception in that
its citizens told the government what they could and could not do, not the other
way around! The constitution they framed limited the power of government! That
was the exception of America in all history; government by the people, for the
people and of the people. That's why people flocked here because of
freedom, liberty and self government. Obama and Putin think Americans are
arrogant and think we are better than other people but they are wrong about what
I disagree with the DesNews Editorial. We have no business in the civil war in
Syria. There are multiple sides with multiple agendas of which we know little
if anything. We commemorate 9-11 and then are contemplating assisting the same
political and religious philosophy that motivated the actions of those guilty of
the deaths of so many people.These are serious times and require
mature leadership, perhaps some adults will come to the fore.
@Mike RichardsOh come on. Putin attacked the idea of "American
exceptionalism" which is practically the theme of the Republican party. This
is just ridiculous... even when Obama acts like a conservative you all hate him.
" It would put Syria on a war footing with Israel in the
crosshairs. "Oh and not to spoil the little narrative you have
going right now but Israel has already attacked Syrian territory to try and stop
arms shipments to Hezbollah and Syria did not strike Israel in return.
How do we know Obama didn't put Putin up to it? Nothing would surprise me
I think it is wrong for us to take sides when speaking about Russia-Georgia
conflict. The logic goes like this - we do not like Putin, Georgia does not like
Putin, so in case of conflict we side with Georgia. The relations between Russia
and Georgia go back a long way, both the good and the bad, and are very complex.
I have a hard time believing that the State Department that cannot even write
"Reset Button" correctly in Russian would have the smarts to figure out
what is going on between those two countries.
I totally disagree with this editorial. The editors did not address the
message, instead they attacked the messenger. If any progress is ever to be
made, the MESSAGE must be evaluated regardless of who the messenger is. No one
would disagree that Putin rose to power because he was a ruthless member of the
KGB, but should that keep us from considering what he said?Obama is
a disgrace to everything that represents America. If it takes someone like
Putin to wake up America to that fact, then we should be grateful that Putin had
the courage to tell us that Emperor Obama is wearing no clothes. Obama has not listen to anyone since he took office. He lied about every
major activity that he has handled. Until he is stopped, even by Putin, he will
continue. Does the Deseret News really believe that throwing a few
missiles into Syria will do anything except extend Obama malfeasance? Just what
would that do? It would put Syria on a war footing with Israel in the
crosshairs. Are we willing to slaughter Israel so that Obama can regain face?
Because he shook his finger at Obama he is a New conservative Hero, if he had
said this about Bush, we would be at war with russia of his your Not exceptional
comment.Sad how the Neocons have to love all who would insult Obama.