Eliyahu,My boy was friends with another Jewish boy his age, and as a
result, we were invited to his Upsherinish. It was really cool and fun. I
loved the sense of community that that Jewish sect had with each other. I
understand what you are saying about not being part of the community, and I
respect and get that.There is a great misunderstanding of the
doctrine for baptisms for the dead. It is not "posthumous baptism."
When we perform the ordinance, the person in question is not part of our faith.
In the next life, IF that spirit chooses to accept the ordinance, than it will
become binding, but otherwise has no effect. That is why we perform them for as
many as we can regardless of who they were. We leave the judgement to Christ,
and it may be that baptism is denied to those nazis who committed horrific acts
against your people. Nevertheless, we (LDS) will not assume His judgement.I understand where you are coming from, and why you view this as a slap
in a face to these Jews' faith. Understand we thought it was an act of
@Shazandra"Remember, there are no archeological or historic
evidences for one iota of the BoM. You can believe in it, just not claim that
there are any cities, weapons, pottery or physical proof. Hence, the Smithsonian
refusal to allow any Nephite-Lamanite claims or suppositions."If
Joseph Smith made up the BOM then the same claim could be said about the New
Testament since the oldest manuscripts of the four gospel writers only can be
dated to c.200 and those are just fragments. No complete books exist. The
letters of Paul c.175-225 also just fragments. Those fragments are nice to
know they exist but it is like reading a book with missing pages. What
information did the missing pages contain? The only book that is complete is 3
John but that is dated c.350. But The argument can be raised that 3 John could
have been written by someone living during that time period seeing that there
are no earlier documents to verify what was written by John. The earliest
complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to the 4th
Shazandra,From a recent Jewish news site:“A
2,000-year-old mikveh (ritual bath) has been uncovered just 20 meters from the
Western Wall. Given its location just outside the Holy Temple - where untold
numbers of Jews regularly immersed before entering - the newly-revealed pool is
among the largest ever discovered in Jerusalem.”No, not in the
temple. But real close.As to the BOM? All I can say is that when I
joined the church over 35 years ago, there was a lot less evidence than there is
now. Circumstantial? Sure. But nevertheless more each year.The
Quakers on the Moon thing is a real stretch.But you are right,
“My people perish for lack of knowledge”.Mormonism is as
much of a cult as early Christianity.
Unbelievable, the comments and claims here. If DN editors will post any LDS
claim, why don't they allow the challenges to preposterous claims and
patently false statements?'My people perish for lack of
knowledge' comes to mind.1- Libs and Eternal Perspective live
in their own universe. "Cult" has 10 Webster defs, 9 of them harmless
but accurate. Don't bristle if the shoe fits. Semantics need
clarification, not trite escape. 2- No bonafide Biblical Christian
group is jealous of the increase of false gospels, or the success of the fastest
rising converts in the world- Islam. Remove jealousy from the debate and read
Matthew 28:19. Our Lord made it clear the command and the sacrifice.All else saddens true followers of the historic, Biblical Christ.
Whatcha drinkin' in Rexburg, Happy Feet? All my kin are from Rexburg and I
love it there, but LDS do not hail from Biblical times any more than any other
ethnicity. The Ethiopian Jews are far closer to their tribal connection than
any claim from Euro-Ephraimites. Just getting a patriarchal blessing sans any
genetic or valid geneological evidence is no more verifiable than an African
witch doctor's pronouncements, per the scientific/historic/legitimate
community. Adherants can believe and claim anything they wish; but we now know
that no 7 ft. Quakers inhabit our lunar luminary...Remember, there
are no archeological or historic evidences for one iota of the BoM. You can
believe in it, just not claim that there are any cities, weapons, pottery or
physical proof. Hence, the Smithsonian refusal to allow any Nephite-Lamanite
claims or suppositions.There is also no Biblical or historical
verification that any ancient Jewish temple, Solomon or Herod's, was ever
used for weddings, sealings, baptisms, et al.Heck, growing up
Mormon, I thought we were spiritual Israel...
One of the most signifigant similarities between Latter Day Saints and Jews, and
a similarity that dwarfs all others, is that they are the only two groups of
people in the world who have maintained their individual identities as members
of the House of Israel as established in ancient times
Moslems have large families, dietary restrictions and modest dress.
Wouldn't it be great if we all got along?
It starts with the Abrahamic Covenant -- Isaac and Ishmael spilt.Their posterity eventually falls away.Moses is called for a
restoration.There is another falling away, Jesus is born, and
There is another restoration.andThere is another falling
away.1830God calls yet another restoration.Of
course they are similar.It all revolves around that very same Abrahamic
Covenant, to which the Jews, Islam, and Latter-Day Saint Christians all
claim privilege to.
RE:zoar63, (200 A.D. On Souls), Tertulllian, wrote against the Platonic doctrine
the Pre-existence of the soul and the Pythagorean(occult) doctrine of
transmigration, re-incarnation.i.e.,(Ecc 12:7)… the spirit
shall return unto God who gave it.In (2Tim 1:9 & Titus 1:2)God
existed before time, implying he created time.The Temple for
Christians is Jesus,“destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise
it up” (John 2:19). Jesus spoke of the destruction of the temple,he was
speaking of his own body (John 2:22).But for Jews,the temple in
Jerusalem needs to be rebuilt to continue sacrifices.(2 Thes
2:3-4)Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God....*Allusions to Isa 14:13-14; Dan 11:36; Ezek 28:2-9.RE:
EternalPerspective, devotion to Jesus Christ?… this has never
been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to
Moses' day, namely, Sacrifice, will be continued.(HofC v.4 p.211-21)JS,
@ 2bits:"The only beef Jews have with Mormons I know of is the
doctrine of baptism for the dead."The issue we have with proxy
baptisms of our people is at least twofold. First, many of those subjected to
such "baptisms" were Jews who died in nazi camps because of who they
were; that is, because they were Jews. They died because they were Jewish, and
now someone would have the chutzpah to pretend to convert them to a religion
they vehemently rejected while alive and able to choose. Secondly, some Mormons
have done proxy baptisms of most, if not all, of the nazi hierarchy, and
there's not a one of us who would willingly consent to being made a member
of any church to which they belong.
I've always thought Mormons and Jews have a lot in common.Scientist,I don't think either side should be offended. Even on
the simplistic level of the article. They have even MORE similarities if you
do a more in depth analysis.They should... in theory they have
common roots.I've had many conversations with people of the
Jewish faith and never seen either side get offended. Mormons have no beef
with Jews. The only beef Jews have with Mormons I know of is the doctrine of
baptism for the dead. And if they don't think Mormons have the valid
priesthood authority to do a valid baptism that God would consider binding in
the afterlife... then the act has no validity or affect, so what do you have to
worry about? And if Mormons DO have the valid Priesthood authority to conduct
saving ordinances that are actually binding in heaven... then why would you not
want them?But either way... nobody needs to be offended. People of
other faiths could baptize me all day and I'd just thank them kindly.
@sharrona"Origen believed in the Platonic pre-existence and
transmigration of souls. The Council of Constantinople .. in 453 CE posthumously
excommunicated him."And Constantine who was a pagan ordered the
council. That gives a lot of credibility, a council doing its business
supervised by an unbeliever seeing as Constantine was never baptized until he
was on his death bed."The N.T. teaches that Christ is the New
Temple . Christ’s body is the true temple–as Paul puts it,
“For we are the temple of the living God” How can the
son of perdition sit in the temple If Christ’s body is the temple? Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son
of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is
called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of
God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thes 2:3-4)
One important distinction here is that a lot of the similarities are between
Mormons and Orthodox Jews. The comparisons rather fall apart when Reformed
Judaism is used instead.
uh..umm..uh..well uh...hmm Jewish people do not believe that Christ is the
Savior.I think I will stop right there.Great people great culture and history
but that is a HUGE difference
They have all humanity in common. It's religion that divides them.
‘More alike than you think: Mormons and Jews’and I might
add -- ‘More alike than you think: Mormons and Muslims’
RE: EternalPerspective, Mormon doctrine is compatible?Origen
believed in the Platonic pre-existence and transmigration of souls. The Council
of Constantinople .. in 453 CE posthumously excommunicated him.Ecc
12:7)… the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.For in him
we live and move and have our Being...(Acts 17:28)Creation is dependent on God
for it’s very existence.One greater than the temple has come!
Jesus Christ. It is in Christ’s church–as Jesus’ mystical
body–that we find the fulfillment of the O. T. prophecies regarding
Jerusalem and the Mountain of the Lord. The promise of a land, will be
fulfilled in a new heaven and earth in the consummation (cf. Romans 4:13;
Hebrews 11:9-10). The N.T. teaches that Christ is the New Temple .
Christ’s body is the true temple–as Paul puts it, “For we are
the temple of the living God” (2 Corinthians 6:16)–What use remains
for a future literal temple? That to which the temple had pointed,
is now a reality through the work of the Holy Spirit.
@EliyahuSince I once lived in Utah, it would probably be a WONDERFUL
experience for your community AND you if you chose to become a part of it...THANK YOU! Abby for a very pleasant, positive, smooth flowing
article...I enjoyed it immensely!
While there are a lot of cultural and communal similarities and shared values,
there are still vast differences when we look at actual theology. While many of
our scriptures are shared by Mormons, we don't recognize or accept most of
theirs. E.g., New Testament, Book of Mormon, D&S, Pearl of Great Price.
Similarly, they don't give any accord to our Talmud. When it comes to the
actual theology, there's very little in common. That said, we
like our LDS neighbors and neighborhood even though we recognize that we'll
never really be a part of the community.
sharrona"ex nihilo" is popular in Jewish and Christian
sects, but not all believe in it. Science proves that matter cannot be created
out of nothing and Mormon doctrine is compatible.Christianity,
Judaism, and Mormonism were mentioned as separate religions. Mormons
couldn't be more Christian with the Savior Jesus Christ being at the center
of everything we do. But, it also has a close resemblance to Judaism with
temple building and other facets. Separating Mormons from the word
Christian has been a false rumor since the days of Joseph Smith, along with the
whole “cult” association. All one has to do is attend a Sacrament
meeting on Sunday in a Mormon Chapel and see plainly that devotion to Jesus
Christ and living His Gospel are at the core of beliefs and practices.Some of this is from negativity with differences between Creedal and
Reformation Christianity. Another one is jealously from proselyting success.
Most Christian sects say that God has done His work and all we can do is believe
in Him as the Heavens are closed in these days. Mormons know God is
unchangeable and Christ's Church was restored by the same patterns in the
I found the Mormons and Messianic Jews have a lot in common theologically- It
really surprised me.
My brother-in-law is Jewish. He is like a brother to me, and is my favorite
brother-in-law. We can joke about a lot of things and not get offended. My
favorite joke to him is that he has to take care of his "Mormon American
princess" wife. He loves that one.
Jews and Mormons could be more similar.Rabbis from the Reform,
Reconstructionist, and Conservative (USA) denominations are happy to perform
same-sex marriage ceremonies.Mormons.....?
One thing I have noted is that the LDS generally (not always but generally) have
a better understanding than many other Christians of the religion's Jewish
roots.I am sometimes surprised that good, faithful Christians of my
acquaintance have little knowledge of the Jewish faith.Overall, I
have found that the better I understand the Old Testament (Judaism as practiced
at the time of Christ and before), the better I understand the New Testament and
Book of Mormon.
The people that we commonly refer to as, "Jewish" aren't really
Jews. Jewish and Jew are two different things. Jew refers to those who are
actually descendants and Jewish refers to those who came from Rome, whose
descendants presently occupy the land of the Jews. Pretty much like the
Europeans who came here from Europe who now refer to themselves as Americans.Occupying the land of another nation does not automatically change the
Natal Nationality of a people.We are more like the Moslem's in
our practices because, essentially, this gospel is what the Moslems embraced
before they were forced, by orders from Pope Nicholas V to become Christians, by
reducing them to slavery. It states:In 18 June 1452: Pope Nicholas
V issues Dum Diversas, a bull authorising AlphonsoV of Portugal to reduce
any "Saracens (Muslims) and pagans and any other unbelievers" to
latter-Day Saints have always known that there are many similarities and
connections between Mormons and Jews. It is the Jews who are just beginning to
Large families, dietary restrictions and modest dress are a few of the
similarities author Rabbi Perry Tirschwell noted in his article, “Our
Friends the Mormons” that ran on The Jewish Press.com on Aug. 29.Landau describes searching Google for "Modern Orthodox bridesmaids
dresses" or "Jewish bridesmaid dresses" and "Tasteful bridesmaid
dresses," but the results only brought up dresses listed at $400 or more
that were far too modest, "covering everything from clavicle to wrist, to
ankle."WOW "too modest" for a Mormon and a Jew? They
could have dressed like Muslim brides! Now that's modest
Ancient Israelites made covenants with God through His Priesthood authority with
the Law of Moses or the lesser law. This was a "schoolmaster" to come
to Christ that arose due to disobedience leading to 40 years in the
wilderness.Faithful Jews and Gentiles received same covenant after
the ministry of Jesus Christ as mentioned in Mark 14:24, "And he said unto
them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.".
Testament is better translated to "covenant". This covenant
was restored using the same patterns of the Bible by Priesthood authority
through a living prophet to fulfill the promise made to Abraham for his
posterity. The purpose was to restore Christ’s church to gather the 12
tribes of Israel preparatory to the second coming of Christ.God’s Church and religion is bound by the same Priesthood authority and
covenants, though its form and doctrine on the earth has varied based on the
faith of those who are called. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever
and His course is one eternal round. Evil divides religion to draw people away
I notice this article didn't mention many similarities. I've taken
Jews, Muslims and Mormons to lunch. They all want to be good, honest people.
They don't want to kill others. They all want to take care of the poor.One does not believe Christ.. One believes Christ was a prophet like the
other prophets and one believes Christ is the savior of the world and is the son
@ A Scientist,"I can't decide whether Jews or Mormons
should be more offended by this simplistic comparison."I'm
certain the types who look to be offended will have no problem here, regardless
of their background.
In 2008, 78% of Jews voted for Mr. Obama; 78% of Mormons voted for Mr.
McCain; in 2012, 69% of Jews voted for Mr. Obama. It is true the numbers
are shifting. And the same could be said of Muslims.
There are also many comparisons between Jews, Mormons, and Muslims.@
PLM: Many cultures - including Native Americans, Pagans, and Buddhists - honor
their dead, hold feasts of Thanksgiving, serve God or the gods, and try to lead
good lives.There are more similarities between people than there are
differences. It would be nice if we could focus on that as a general principle
instead of an itty bitty principle.
Here's another similarity: A recent study found that while atheists and
agnostics know more about religion than does any relgious group, Mormons and
Jews know the most among religious people.
RE:Jews and Chritians believe that God created all that exists ex nihilo (out of
nothing). Mormonism is quite different in its cosmology, claiming that God
fashioned the universe out of preexisting material. God is eternal in some forms
of LDS theology, but so is preexisting matter, including the material used by
God to create human beings..@ dietary restrictions. Therefore do not
let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious
festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the
things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Col
2:16-17)I had a friend who had her husband go war and she kissed his
picture every day upon his return she still kissed his picture even though she
had the real(ality) person there.
Sweet but ... Abby must be a VERY recent graduate of BYU. This is a little
simplistic ... although I agree there are many comparisons of Jews &
When I think of Jewish people, I feel like I am thinking about my cousins and
have a true fondness and affection for them. The Jewish celebration of the Feast
of the Tabernacles has many parallels to our Thanksgiving; family gathering,
feasting, giving thanks. We both honor our dead, try to serve God and lead good
lives. I appreciate their contributions to our scriptures, laws and culture.
America once had a Judeo-Christian cultural foundation that was the source of
our strength. My ancestors, Charlemagne, William the Conqueror and others
honored and protected the Jewish people and the important strengths they have
brought to the world. God bless you, my Jewish brothers and sisters.
I can't decide whether Jews or Mormons should be more offended by this
Funny -- The exact same thing can be said about Mormons and Muslims
as well.ShalomAs-salamu alaykumPeace be unto you, Peace
be upon you.My Peace, I give unto you.