'Our own stupidity' to blame for losing skilled workers to foreign companies, Hatch says

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  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 4:40 p.m.

    But Orrin, with all of these illegals you support........why wouldn't they be the skilled workers you speak of.......your foolish!

  • Neanderthal Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 17, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    "I'm sure you think your screen name is very clever (BO/Barack Obama/Body Odor). It is, however, offensive to many and in very poor taste."

    Wait a minute... I posted Obama as 'Barack Hussein Obama' during his campaign and the DNews monitors had a hissy fit denying the post... Then comes the Inauguration where he uses his full name in his oath of office. Now it's OK to use 'Hussein.' Go figure.

    I think the monitors expect you to write as if you're penning a speech for Sacrament Meeting. Some of my posts are so horrifying they don't even e-mail back saying 'denied.' On others it 'head scratching' to decipher what the denial reason was.

    I'm toying with moving to the Trib.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 2:03 p.m.

    For local DN commenters who may not know, to equate President Barack Obama with body oder is more than crass, it is blatantly racist.

  • Let's Agree to Disagree Spanish Fork, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 11:07 p.m.

    "We're growing as quickly as I can hire good people," said Dave Elkington, chief executive officer of Insidesales.com.

    I do not buy this. Many engineers were laid off from the company I work for a while back. After a few months, some were able to find jobs. Now six months later some a still struggling without work. These people have experience and degrees in electrical engineering and computer science.

    I cannot help but wonder if these companies are not mainly looking for people who will work longer hours for less money and then can be easily let go once they are not needed any longer.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 7:29 p.m.

    @ Ajax
    What I find offensive is Hatch catering to foreign interests and big money when he is supposed to be representing the citizens of his district and protecting the interests of the United States.
    I'm sorry you were distracted by my screen name and lost the message I was sending as a result.
    I'm going to guess you are pro-amnesty.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2013 5:38 p.m.

    @Utes Fan:
    "There are endless loopholes allowing employers to hire at much lower wages."

    True. And even if there weren't loopholes, the government wouldn't go after employers who paid lower wages to illegals. Face it, the government can't even find the energy to go after employers who fail to use E-Verify and illegally hire illegals.

    "I'm sure you think your screen name is very clever (BO/Barack Obama/Body Odor). It is, however, offensive to many and in very poor taste."

    Deal with it. That's his initials. Besides, I used his full name (Barrack Husein Obama) in a post when he first ran for pres and the DNews monitors denied my post until I changed it to simply Barrack Obama. Then, after his inauguration ceremony where he used 'Barrack Hussein Obama' it suddenly became OK to use his full name... Go figure.

    Speaking of poor taste... using all three names is poor taste since he has moved our country to almost certain ruin. Remember, he's from Kenya and his ancestry are all Muslim.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:11 p.m.

    To "sally" read "utes fan" comment above.

    Many posters here have referred to the fact that there are plenty of jobs for STEM graduates but employers prefer to "import" a person for one-third the salary of what (6 yrs?) of education in U.S. colleges SHOULD be paid.

    In other words employers would PREFER Orrin Hatch let them employ a foreign national at 30k per year for instance, rather than pay a U.S. citizen 60 or 70K.

    All the "high-tech" employers are trying to do is lobby the Senate RATHER than pay decent (deserved) wages to Americans.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2013 3:22 p.m.

    @The Rock:
    "I don't know of a single person, conservative or otherwise who is opposed to allowing highly skilled workers into the country."

    There's at least one, me.

    As stated above, the Constitution says the government must treat everyone with equality (Equal Protection Clause). The government cannot pick and choose who's let in and who's not. If the government does pick, it has to be on another basis such as general predetermined immigration quotas and not what talents or degrees the immigrant might possess... which would be discriminatory.

    "Anyone who thinks that Democrats favor amnesty for altruistic reasons is deluding themselves."

    Whoa! Democrats know full well that they can (and do) win millions of Hispanic citizen votes by allowing the Hispanic brothers and sisters to immigrate. There's millions waiting t immigrate and vote Democrat.

    "If the Democrats thought that they were losing elections because of the illegal alien vote, they would close that border and deport every illegal alien in the country so fast it would make your head spin."

    Democrats ARE getting the Hispanic vote. That's why they're against deporting and in favor of borderless, uncontrolled Hispanic immigration.

  • sally Kearns, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    I would like to read a report on how the American citizen college graduates in the STEM programs in the last three years are doing now. What is their salary, positions, opportunities, and how many are still looking for good employment. I know of one American citizen who was an excellent student who is way underemployed and willing to move even outside of the U.S. to be well employed. So, where are the jobs for U.S. citizens? Are the schools not teaching the students what they need to know to be employed? Are the colleges favoring foreigners at the colleges in school work situations? Anyone with experience has a better opportunity for employment. I would like to read a broader interpretation of what is really going on before I will support an immigration bill change.

    Aug. 16, 2013 2:34 p.m.

    Let’s face it, this immigration thing is a 20th century issue that has slopped over into the 21st century. The time has come to finally resolve it in an intelligent fashion, as three-fourths of Americans favor and Obama confronts head-on. An interesting new worldwide book/ebook by former Salt Laker Lance Johnson that helps explain the role, struggles, and contributions of immigrants and minorities is "What Foreigners Need To Know About America From A To Z: How to Understand Crazy American Culture, People, Government, Business, Language and More.” It paints a revealing picture of America for anyone who will benefit from a better understanding. Endorsed by ambassadors, educators, and editors, it also informs those who want to learn more about the last remaining superpower and how we compare to other nations on many issues.
    They represent 17 percent of all new business owners (in some states more than 30 percent). In fact, forty percent of Fortune 500 companies were started by an immigrant or a child of an immigrant, creating 10 million jobs and seven out of ten top brands in our country.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    "Some who participated in the discussion balked at the idea that immigration reform is being used as a means to pay workers low wages. One reason is that the H1B visa, allowing an employer to temporarily hire an immigrant worker, requires that the employer pay the worker at least as much as those in the United States, Microsoft immigration attorney Jack Chen said."

    This is NOT true. There are endless loopholes allowing employers to hire at much lower wages. The corporate lobbyists wrote the rules and ensured that they became law, so they benefit from them.

    Economics 101 and common sense 101: if the supply of foreign workers are dramatically increased, wages will stagnate. If wages stagnate, then the incentive for domestic workers to get STEM degrees decreases.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    Oh yes, easy answer, blame it on the GOP!

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    I don't understand Hatch on this issue... for one thing, he doesn't need the Hispanic (or any other ethnic) vote since he will likely not run again.

    We should be reserving our higher education slots for Americans, not foreigners. Foreigners just take their degrees and return home to compete with the US. And if they don't go home but stay in the US, they are competing with America's millions of unemployed.

    Furthermore, we can't pick and choose who shall come here to get educated. Our US Constitution has a clause --- 'Equal Protection' (14th Amendment) --- which, to me, means the government must treat everyone (citizen or not) equally, and cannot pick and choose who it will permit into this country to study or work, who it will pick to get an education, and who it will pick to get green cards/amnesty.

    And further, studies show that there is NO shortage of STEM graduates in America. Many who graduate in STEM subjects can't find jobs in their field. So, why are we even fiddling with H-1B's or any other type of visa?

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Aug. 16, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    "Frankly, we're in a state of de facto amnesty, whether you like it or not,"

    True! I don't know of a single person, conservative or otherwise who is opposed to allowing highly skilled workers into the country.

    Anyone who thinks that Democrats favor amnesty for altruistic reasons is deluding themselves. If the Democrats thought that they were losing elections because of the illegal alien vote, they would close that border and deport every illegal alien in the country so fast it would make your head spin.

    Fact is that Republicans have lost several elections by a margin smaller than the proven illegal alien vote. Any Republican who votes for the current immigration bills is probably planning to switch parties, completely insane.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    "edgrady" You do understand (I hope)that the current amnesty bill ORIGINATED in the Senate? The democratically controlled senate; at the insistence of Obama.

    You're 100% correct though that BOTH parties should be acting in the best interests of lower to middle income Americans. Hatch and his RINO friends certainly AREN'T doing that. But then, neither are the democrats. Black leaders have complained, to no avail, to Obama that with the passage of yet another amnesty bill, their constituents will lose jobs to illegal aliens.

    Democrats and RINO's (at the insistence of their business lobbyist friends) are the ones pushing yet ANOTHER amnesty.
    Those of us who are conservatives are doing our VERY BEST to try to stop them.

    Care to join us?

    The "high-tech" (H1B)visa issues should have been considered totally separate, except that the "high-tech" companies are dumping huge amounts of lobbying funds into getting amnesty passed so THEY will benefit also. In other words they "piggy-backed" their nonsensical legislation on the with the lower-skilled issue hoping to get it passed!

    Neither group should have been given the ability to displace U.S. workers. But thats what is happening.

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    Hatch if you would be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem as you and the rest of the "public servants" in Washington mainly worry about your own benefit package, then we might not be in this mess.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    The US should be producing it's own highly skilled workers. Students from other countries come here better prepared than the average US student. We should be funding and improving public education rather than defund which Utah tries to do every election.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 7:13 a.m.

    I'm sorry, Orrin, but you have to take some of the blame for this mess.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 1:45 a.m.

    We have de facto amnesty, because of Senators like Hatch.

    A quick check on the H-1B site shows the visa being used to recruit teachers, accountants, law clerks, etc. It's not just STEM jobs. And they are paid much less than local people, with no benefits or insurance.

    The "o" visa is for high IQ people.

    Many Americans in STEM courses have dropped out because of the H-1B visa. Why take the classes when you can't find a job? We are destroying our STEM educations future.

    300,000 people on visas that are good for 3 years, and can be extended for 3 more. That's 1.8 million people. We don't need immigration reform, we need new responsible leaders.

  • OlderGreg USA, CA
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    American education plays into this big time.

    The public colleges recruit and prefer non-residents because they can charge them more $$. It happens across international *and* state lines.

    Our K-12 system pretends that everybody needs college, while teaching to the bottom10%. Tech schools are no more.

    We used to do "prep schools" for those who were college-bound, but couldn't quite cut it. We now have "bonehead" college classes, instead.

    Colleges should have admission standards and give some degree of preference to those who have been supporting them with their local taxes.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    And the GOP's "shock and awe" campaign against Middle-Class America rages on. The GOP makes it harder for Middle-Class Americans to attend college by increasing the cost of student loans and then works feverishly to allow more foreign workers to take good jobs from Americans. And they wonder why they can't win the White House.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    Every time Hatch says "Yes" to an illegal alien, he is saying "No" to an unemployed citizen.
    Let's take a look at the high end, programmers, engineers and scientists. The narrative goes like this: They come to the United States and attend our universities and they go home with all that education because we won't give them a work visa.
    I say, why are we educating them in the first place? Why aren't we focusing our education dollars and scholarship money on our own people? I know some very talented teens with blond hair and blue eyes who are turned down at ivy league schools because they aren't "diverse" enough. The kid from Pakistan gets in with lower bona fides.
    Similarly, new college grads are pouring coffee and high tech workers in their 50s are working in call centers because they were downsized in the recession.
    At the low end the situation is worse. There are 27 million adults with high school diploma or less who are not working. Guess who is taking their jobs?
    Just say "No" to amnesty.

  • Viva la Migra American Fork, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:16 p.m.

    Having worked in the High-Tech industry for many years, I can say for every skilled H1-B person I would want to hire, there are literally dozens of inept, incompetent H1-B workers being shopped around by consulting companies. Even those who interview well have turned out to be duds and had serious communication problems.

    But even if we could identity highly skilled high-tech workers to enhance our workforce, what's the point of Hatch including that with blanket amnesty for millions of unskilled workers who have nothing to offer? I think Hatch has been hanging out with the wrong crowd and has gotten some bad advice. Too bad we can't arrange an intervention.

    It is foolish for many Republicans to think they are going to attract votes from former illegal aliens. By angering their base, they'll actually lose voters and donations. Hatch and other GOP "leaders" should learn from Democrats who seldom seem to compromise their liberal stances on social issues to try and attract conservative votes. Hatch must be getting dizzy from flip flopping so much over this issue.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:15 p.m.

    the problem concerning the dearth of highly skilled workers is not so much an immigration problem, but one of our education system.

    We are too set on social promotions and teaching self-esteem that we do not teach skills and the hard sciences in our schools.

    we do not pay enough to attract teachers qualified to teach those subjects because the teacher's unions will not allow pay scales that sufficiently reward such topics, fearing that will reduce the funds available to pay those who teach the subjects listed below.

    too many schools offer degrees in "current events" or Womens' studies" or "ethnic studies" that have a very narrow real-world application if any application exists.

    When the soviets put Sputnik into orbit, there was a push in our schools to reinforce math and science; now the only push is school make sure johnny does not bring an aspirin or wear a t-shirt liberals find offensive.

    We don't demand enough from our own kids, which is short-changing them and diming our nation's future. There are some self-motivated kids who strive to excel, but the system allows the slackers to bog them down.

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    Hatch has gained a few points in my book on this issue. Good for him.

    I wish I could have gone to this.