BYU football: Texas lineman's eligibility is in BYU's hands

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  • Turtles Run Missouri City, TX
    Sept. 3, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    If this young man took the course in high school before he was a member of the UT system then he should gain credit.

    For those wondering how Texas could possibly know about the status of players on other teams. Remember Texas simply has to review its records on prospective students tat are playing for other schools. Plus someone will always "leak: info just to get in Texas' favor.

    Trust me BYU does not want to tick off Texas. They have long memories are famous for holding grudges.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:10 a.m.


    The question isn't whether the course was taken, the question is whether the course was taken under false pretenses.

    If whoever signed up for the course falsely claimed that the student taking the course wasn't a college athlete, then BYU has no choice but to deny credit for the course - it's no different than submitting an application for college admission using a false transcript.

  • gehelmke Bastrop, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    I live in Austin, TX....I moved here from Murray, UT....I have found the "back and forth" between UT and BYU to be comical to the point of absolute hilarity....The Austin American Statesman projects that BYU is unfairly depriving them of an outstanding football player, and the Deseret News is projecting that BYU is steadfastly holding to its rigid ruling.

    My opinion....If the course was taken, there's a record of it somewhere. BYU's policy of saying one student can not take the course, while another student can, is flat out discrimination....and it especially smells in the present situation because UT and BYU play each other in a couple of months.....Who actually took the course is irrelevant. No one knows who takes online courses, and the credits are awarded every day.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 18, 2013 7:33 p.m.

    Won't be long now... 5 weeks from tonight and the brown hawk, feathers and all will be Roadkill in our rear view mirror...

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    What was the course title? If you saw the types of courses available for independent study, no one would be arguing because no one would say that type of course qualifies for credit - high school or college.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 17, 2013 3:15 p.m.


    No, you are completely wrong. This was a HIGH SCHOOL course taken for HIGH SCHOOL credit.

  • earthquakejake Logan, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 8:29 p.m.

    This is a stupid reason to prevent someone in a football career.

    I'm sure BYU is okay without becoming the utah utes of the Big 12.

    Aug. 16, 2013 6:46 p.m.

    @tators - the most telling comment in your post comes at the end when you reference anyone with a 'ute' in their name. If that isn't a textbook definition of prejudice, I don't know what is.

    Regarding your comment and suggestion I didn't read the article closely, my response is that maybe you should take your own advice. The direct quote is 'BYU's policy, established in 2006, prohibits student-athletes from schools other than BYU from taking Independent Study classes." There is nothing in the article that indicates this is in regard to NCAA compliance.

    The article continue to site example of other athletes that used the process to become eligible and NEVER references the NCAA regulations. Maybe there is some truth to your comment, maybe not; but nothing in the article supports your post.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    Aug. 16, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    It isn't up to BYU, its the NCAA policy...thank Micheal Oher for the changes.

  • Scott Farcus Beaver, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Three words; Honor, Spirit, Tradition.
    Live tradition and honor the spirit of the law.

    Then watch the wrath of the Long Horns clean house.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:16 p.m.


  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    So why doesn't Texas and other schools have an independant study program of their own?

    We all know that academics isn't what their program is about, and any athlete who isn't cutting it academically will somehow be cleared to play via whatever mischief is necessary for the program to continue.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    @Silent Lurker, Woody
    No, both of you have this completely wrong.
    This is not about High school grades, credit or eligbity. It is not about replacing high school grades.
    Desmond is at a Junior College. He didn't complete a the Junior college..that he needs to maintain NCAA eligibility.
    BYU can not monitor, as required by NCAA rules, students not on their campus. So they must bar student/athletes not enrolled on campus at BYU.
    They can monitor and test on campus BYU student athletes.
    Desmond is trying to move from the Junior college to Texas and violated the policy that bars non-BYU students from taking on-line courses.
    Far from being shady it is the absolute correct call they have to make to remain clear of NCAA violations. Learn the rules. Live the rules.
    Had you read my earlier post you would have understood this.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    Apparently this kid has known about this for many months.
    Enough time for him to have enrolled in a summer semester course at Texas.

    At some point the responsibility is on the student and his school.
    Whether it be answering a question honestly on an application form or taking ones own "student" athlete status, seriously.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    If I understand this correctly this program allows High School students to take independent study courses to replace low HS grades to make them academic qualifiers for college. BYU uses it to qualify students and athletes at BYU, but doesn't want anyone else to use the same loop hole for their non qualifier athletes. (ie. Texas) Is this ethical? Is BYU really doing the right thing by this kid? It may be legally within the NCAA rules but it sounds a little shady. BYU must think it's OK, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Right!

  • Tenn12 Orem, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    Boy let's not sweat the small stuff. What a big deal about nothing. Let him play. What a silly technicality. BYU is notorious for stuff like this. There are so inconsistent with how they enforce rules. I say look at the big picture, and let him play.

  • Osgrath Provo, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    Interesting viewpoint, Louisiana - it would ensure an alliance with an important and influential program (whether the rest of the Big 12 loves or hates Texas, they Longhorns rule the roost). Meanwhile, it removes the taint from the BYU Independent Studies program - it should not be their job to monitor the qualifications and eligibility of individual students.

  • Woody Newbury Park, CA
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    It seems this athlete failed in high school and has no reason to be enrolled in a University. BYU has an online course to help students complete high school. This could make a student eligible for college. It does not make him eligible for sports. I think a reasonable and fair outcome is for him to enroll at Texas, but be redshirted for at least a year. If he has high enough college grades, play next year.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:44 a.m.


    "Funny that Y "fans" are simultaneously defending a suspect online study program here and touting the university's academic credentials on another DNews story"

    Not funny at all, considering the two stories have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.

    NOBODY is contesting the validity of the study program; the only thing being questioned is whether it was taken under false pretenses.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:40 a.m.


    BYU is 2-1 all-time versus Texas; 2-0 versus Oklahoma.

    According to the spiel we constantly hear from the kids on the hill, head-to-head is the ONLY thing that counts, so BYU is obviously better than Texas and Oklahoma (at least according to the theory constantly being spewed from the hill).

  • metamoracoug metamora, IL
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    2013 Ute Seniors: Perhaps you are right. But the fact remains that BYU has a winning record against the star program of the BIG12 and in fact handed them one of their worst losses in their highly touted history, routing them 46-7 in 1988. And I was on UT's campus -- living in Austin -- in 1987, when BYU beat them on their home turf, 22-17. I was really amazed then at the arrogance of the UT fans. They were certain because of their "history" they would clobber the cougs. Oh, well. I guess it does matter what happens on the field.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Let the kid play. After all he was only trying to maintain eligibility. It's not like he was signing helmets for money like some other kid in College Station, who mind you is still practicing with his team.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    @ 2013 Ute Seniors Sweep...:

    2 facts remain that you can not dispute. One is that BYU has a better head-to-head record against Texas, 2-1. And as someone stated, the single loss was by a single point and that was played at Texas. When Utah gets any win against the Y, the trolls seems to think it means everything, including that their program is therefore better. But when BYU does the same thing against someone else, you do a complete turnaround. Odd.

    The 2nd fact: Regarding saying that your online name says it all... All that name really says is that you live in a red hued dream-world that is about to come crashing down on you in a few weeks. September 21st to be more specific. The reality of what's been happening in fall practices at both schools is what really says it all. Take off those red tinted glasses and try to stay better informed.

  • That's A Good One Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    No JohnInSLC, what's funny is that you think BYU's Independent Study program is "suspect", along with the minor detail that it's Harvard University that determined BYU's academic credentials are top 25, not Y "fans".

    Good try though. It doesn't take much to make a desperate U football or basketball fan see 'funny' in the news these days.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    Funny that Y "fans" are simultaneously defending a suspect online study program here and touting the university's academic credentials on another DNews story.

    You can't make this stuff up!

  • RealBlue Holladay, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    Let him play, they need the help.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:44 a.m.


    So you are better than the Texas football program now?


    Texas gets more quality wins each year than bronco has in his entire time at byu combined!

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:43 a.m.


    The same can be said of Utah(justifiable arrogance) and byu.

    See my screen name. Says it all.

  • But seriously folks! Eugene, OR
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:41 a.m.

    I think Texas also has a lot to lose. Just because they have football tradition does not mean they can manipulate any systems just so that a player can play football. Who do they think they are? Rules and policies are there for good reasons. Texas will bend any rule and bypass any system if it means that their beloved football program will succeed. They seem to have the entitlement mentality that so many of our young people have these days.
    This has nothing to do with football. It is about academics. The NCAA should stick to their guns.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:38 a.m.


    In honest answer to your question: No, he took the class under false pretense (that he was not a student athlete (JC). But they probably will because they are nice people.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    I suppose the secret problem is that someone other than the student can advise the student what answers to make, but the student gets the credit. But how does BYU know that? Best to not have any requirements re athletes.

  • Down under Eugene, OR
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    I think you need to get out more and read the papers. You say that BYU has troubles with whatever they do? Di you not just read the Harvard study that showed BYU and the21 best schools for high achieving HS students. Did you not read that BYU is the most stone sober campus in the country? Did you not remember that BYU OWNS Utah in basketball? And let's not forget the national Championship in football. BYU has better facilities, better graduation rates, more attendance at athletics events that Utah...shall I go on or do you want to slink away back into your crimson hole.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0
    "The difference between byu and Texas?
    The arrogance coming from Texas fans about their football program is justified."

    The same could be said of the difference between Utah and (insert about 10 of the other PAC-12 schools). It works both ways.

    Aug. 16, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    "CO Ute


    I don't have an issue with BYU arguing that the Texas player can't use this class to be eligible. What I don't like about this program is the policy that BYU players can use these courses to be eligible but athletes from other schools can't. Either make the courses available to everyone or restrict the courses to Y students but you can't have it both ways."

    +1, all or nothing.

  • metamoracoug metamora, IL
    Aug. 16, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    2013 Ute seniors: Except that BYU is 2-1 against Texas and the sole loss was by 1 point at Texas. Have a good day.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    @ 2013 Ute Seniors...

    The difference between posts made by ute trolls and BYU fans...

    Any arrogance by BYU is comparatively justified.

    At least such a simple policy as stated in this article is understood by them... and most others.

    BTW... a few more weeks (Sept. 21st) and your online name will make you look pretty silly.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    To CO Ute:

    If you read the article more closely, you'd realize that the NCAA requires such online courses for student athletes to be monitored. And since BYU can monitor only it's own athletes and not those athletes of other schools, it restricts that specific use of their online courses.

    The NCAA doesn't stipulate that non-student athletes be monitored. Therefore, anyone not a student athlete from any other school is free to take the online courses and get credit after being passed. It's really not as difficult a policy as some people are making it out to be... especially those with a ute in their name.

  • AZ Ute Scottsdale, AZ
    Aug. 16, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    If he's ruled ineligible and whatever number of hours are deducted from his record, will BYU refund the money he paid for the online course?

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    The difference between byu and Texas?

    The arrogance coming from Texas fans about their football program is justified.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 7:51 a.m.

    Elk Hair Caddis

    "Sad that BYU let it get to this point."

    Since when is it BYU's fault that it got to this point.

    The policy not allowing student athletes from other schools to receive credit for classes through BYU Independent Study is in place and is clearly spelled out in the online sign-up procedures. With the thousands of online students who sign up for classes through Independent Study (ironic name when it comes to athletes), BYU simply doesn't have the time nor resources to independently verify whether or not each student signing up for classes is an athlete from another school.

    The responsibility to answer that question truthfully during the signup process rests with the student.

    Aug. 16, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    I don't have an issue with BYU arguing that the Texas player can't use this class to be eligible. What I don't like about this program is the policy that BYU players can use these courses to be eligible but athletes from other schools can't. Either make the courses available to everyone or restrict the courses to Y students but you can't have it both ways.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    If BYU wants its Independent Study to be taken seriously in the academic world, including contributions of the coursework to any accredited degree, it must cooperate with Texas. These things have ramifications in situations far beyond student-athletes.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    Let's get this straight. So BYU offers independent study courses so that low high school grades cab be replaced and eligibility requirements can be met for college. This works as long as the student attends BYU or isn't a student athlete at another school. Now a case comes along where the class is used by a student athlete at another school and BYU is denying credit?

    Seems like there are two standards ay play here. Is this just another example of BYU designing a system for BYU to usurp the rules/system in BYU athletes favor? Or is it a way for BYU to lower their admissions standards without having it publically acknowledged?

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    Aug. 16, 2013 4:02 a.m.

    On its face, this policy seems to be unethical and an affront to the individual seeking to obtain academic credit. Moreover, the policy calls into question the legitimacy of all BYU online courses!

    Besides making BYU look bad, this policy makes the NCAA look like they don't have a clue! (But they have demonstrated that quality time and again!)

    Give the young man his credit. Enough, already. BYU should join with Texas in appealing this ridiculous policy to the NCAA.

  • Ldsrm Spanish fork, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 1:10 a.m.

    I think Byu has online classes for users just like any other university or college does!!!

    why didn't the guy take on line classes from Texas ware he is enrolled?

    why is Texas even letting the player play if he is not nca elgabell ?

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    Aug. 15, 2013 11:53 p.m.

    The fact that other student athletes may have been awarded credit is easily explained: "we were not aware that any of those participants were athletes."

    The error was likely made by a guidance counselor at the junior college who had used these courses in the distant past to help students become eligible, did not review the new policy and was unaware that they could no longer be used.

    The application does not ask "Are you a student athlete." And BYU Independent Study has no mechanism and no responsibility to determine the NCAA status of each applicant. The responsibility is on the student to review the guidelines.

    I am curious to know how Texas will definitively show that other student athletes have used these courses to gain eligibility. Will they ultimately disqualify some of their other athletes. "Look, our entire defense took these courses last year..., oops." Perhaps they will point out participation by some key rivals "Corey Nelson and Julian Wilson both took these classes." There are probably a few student athletes that will not sleep well until this is over.

    In the end, I hope the kid gets to play.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 11:38 p.m.

    No brainer...If the kid earned credit, release the grade and let him play.

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 11:31 p.m.

    Seems like nobody on here understands the issue.
    This is not a high school course...period. It's a University course, Desmond was at a JC.
    This is not about being fair, it's about following rules.
    The Y, like every other school that runs any on line classes, has to certify that the course was taken by the listed student. It's usually an honor issue.
    BYU can't just do it for student athletes because of the abuse by schools that do anything to make borderline individuals eligible.
    No one can take online courses now without spending a semester on campus first according to the Y's website. Hence BYU student athletes can.
    Because eligibility clocks are running for University student athletes, BYU must moniter student athletes. They can't if they can't get the student on campus. Hence non-students can't use BYU on line classes.
    The NCAA requires monitoring of student athletes.
    To stay free of NCAA oversight BYU doesn't allow non students
    Any student athletes who lie are subject to losing credit.
    BYU should welcome any list that Texas has and with draw credit for those student athletes who violated.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    Tell Texas to pound sand.

  • Dnquixote Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    They will give him credit or be exposed for allowing other non opponents to do the same thing. Either way it is still their decision to make, but Hohn the fireworks! Personally I hope they try to deny him. The fallout will be epic!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 10:22 p.m.


    "... Admitted to the Big12..."

    BYU isn't getting admitted to the Big12 anyway...

    But my guess is BYU will find a way around their policy in an effort to keep that Big12 dream alive...

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 9:57 p.m.

    Why is this an issue between BYU and Texas? I thought the ncaa made it clear after 2010 that these classes wouldn't count. Seems to me this is the NCAAs issue to deal with.

    2013 Ute Seniors (aka Chris B or his relative):
    "At some point it can't be a considered a coincidence when any relationship this school has turns sour".

    Are U referring to BYU or Texas? We all know Texas has no friends because they bully everyone and force their will on everyone...sounds like this case is no different. Everyone has to play by the rules except Texas. I think BYU would have MORE friends in the Big 12 by snubbing Texas and sticking to their guns. U act as if Big 12 teams/programs love Texas when they actually hate the longhorns and wish nothing but the worst on them. Apparently U dont know the Big 12 very well.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 9:23 p.m.

    Why is it that some schools just have trouble with whatever they do?

    At some point it can't be a considered a coincidence when any relationship this school has turns sour.

    The 1% chance the Big 12 was ever going to invite byu is probably now down to .1%

    And it won't be increasing. Ever

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:17 p.m.

    Doesn't matter if it's Texas or Southwest Podunk State, if we've left legitimate ambiguity in the program, then this needs to go down in the player's favor. Only if the kid's 100% and unambiguously in the wrong do we sit tight here; otherwise we should get out of the way of his eligibility, and let UT and the NCAA do what they want with it from here. And then, I think we need to take a really hard look at this program, and do what is necessary to make it truly bulletproof against the appearance of abuse -- or if we can't do so, discontinue it entirely. No impropriety exists here, and we are nuts to leave ourselves open to the appearance of such.

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    As Texas controls the Big 12, maybe byu should fold to their request.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    BYU is in between a rock and a boulder.
    Give him credit, and they will be criticized for pandering to an athlete.
    Don't give him credit and BYU will never see Texas on their schedule again.
    Let alone be admitted to the Big-12.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 7:40 p.m.

    At what point is he an NCAA student athlete? If he wasn't yet eligible because he lacked High School credit, I believe he could have enrolled in the course(s) since he was not yet enrolled as a student athlete at Texas.

    BYU should punt this one to the NCAA.

    The NCAA says whether or not an individual is eligible. Currently NCAA policy has declared that BYU Independent Study High School program does not count towards HS graduation requirements for eligibility purposes. All BYU needs to do is submit the transcript to the NCAA. They will have done their part.

    Frankly, I hope the kid gets to play and more importantly gets to have a chance at a good education at Texas.

  • Mortoon Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:46 p.m.

    Did this player certify that he was not an athlete at another university in order to enroll in the class?

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:43 p.m.

    Whatever the policy is, if BYU abides by that policy, then that is the right thing to do. If BYU is obligated to help this young man, then they should do that so he can compete. If they are under no obligation to do so, then they shouldn't have to.

    Hopefully the right thing plays out for both this young man, and for BYU.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    So the question is whether BYU has strictly enforced this policy since its inception. If so, the policy is clear on its face and the player should explain how he can justify its violation. If not, and other players from other universities used BYU home study to their advantage since the policy was announced, BYU should explain how it can single this athlete out for enforcement purposes.

    Better be strictly enforcing the policy or BYU will end up with egg on its face and potentially turn a friend in UT into an enemy.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:32 p.m.


    BYU has a responsibility to every student who takes an Independent Study Course from BYU to maintain the academic integrity of the program.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Aug. 15, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    It doesn't sound like this program is shining a very positive light on BYU.